UKresonant

I think this bit, should it be amended to Global income will make being there more than 179days a substantial bit more incompatible for me. It would be very strange paying tax in Thailand after paying tax in the UK, and still spending a substantial amount on commitments in the UK. I just seem to perceive incremental negativity since 2018, then there was COVID etc. So though thought of potentially continuously being in Tax flux is a definite negative. "In the future, Section 41 of the Revenue Code will be amended to immediately calculate tax in the year in which income is earned abroad. Regardless of whether money is brought into the country or not, however, it may take 1-2 years to amend the law.” The remittance rule from Jan 2024, in contrast, is a mild irritation in comparison to that !

But the taxation regime has not changed, so hopefully someone will have an experience to report on the subject, of what they are doing probably next return period 1st quarter 2024. All they have been told to do is pursue basically the same 'doom & gloom' rules as when I looked it at the subject in 2018, (and decided less than 179 days in Thailand that year). It's just unfortunate the magical considered savings from previous years interpretation, that made things so easy, and avoided the hassle of getting caught between two out of sync tax years, provided you kept at least one or more years budget ring fenced, is going. Since I'll always be tax resident in the UK just that may be tax resident in Thailand simultaneously. Hope they don't change the state pension age thing again, as I think there was a custom and practice of 10 years notice, hopefully within range to surely get something. Broadband engineer will arrive shortly to upgrade the doom & gloom device network to fibre (must have Gov., wants to phase out copper lines apparently), so will take a break. UK internet= Double the price of Thailand for a 6th of the performance! No faster than the copper line.

Hope they don't read note 4 on the digest summary. "4. Treaty does not include an article dealing with DT-Company Non-Government pensions. Also, no relief for State Pension or ‘trivial commutation lump sum’." https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b05425fed915d1317445ed2/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf

Glad to hear that, me neither...

Then you should not worry, go and sit on the beach, and de-stress

As far as I know it is only an annual pension letter, stating a bit of calculation and what your Gross weekly pension amount from 10th April will be. I'll ask, but not seen him get a P60. Were normally waiting behind the letter box to get the letter to pin to the next visa application at that time of year Since the the state pension can potentially exceed the recently static 12570pa allowance, I think the tax may be pushed to affect any other pensions and show in their P60 via code adjustment. Not sure what they do should you not have other pensions...Curious, will try and find out.

I'm not inventing problems, not tax resident and unlikely to be Thai Tax resident in 2024, will watch as you take point on this, and observe the outcome from afar. Whilst remitting income generated in the UK to Thailand, whilst you have been, year after year, over the 179 days per calendar threshold, can't see where it says you don't have to do a return. Perhaps if your remitted income is below say 210k THB p.a. and the rest of your required resources are already in place there? I'm just trying to anticipate a possible future scenario, since it's less likely over a number of years there, to classify everything remitted as savings, and therefore not Thai tax applicable, and start keeping possible appropriate info. Before you just needed to ringfence alternate years or perhaps a previous pension lump sum.

Disagree.. with the wealth and the inheritance tax bit, as for a flat rate tax.... Why not just add a 0.1% remittance tax on everything for a limited period, save deployment of intelligent individuals and put them to more productive activities, such as auditing unexplained wealth with serious back-up and an official performance percentage of 200 out every 400 extra units of revenue raised . Politics seems to thrive on causing division, stress and inefficiency...

Yes the danger is that many could hand the evidence of past taxable events, whilst submitting the next. perhaps first tax return? Saying it was RD custom and practice previously, may not cut it. Studied the subject in 2018 and made sure I was not in Thailand more than 179 days, whilst taking some pension benefits. Also going forward after 2018 that any remitted money was from past tax years=savings, that's the bit that's been nullified if you are continuously over the 179day p.a. threshold.! (which has the potential to make things complex in future, Even if I became tax resident one year I may not even be there when the return is due, etc etc.).

Any proof required or purely a question sheet? (I've just renewed all my debit cards a couple of months ago, so before the sept Announcement)

https://thelegal.co.th/2023/10/18/qa-statement-issued-by-revenue-department-clarifying-taxation-applied-on-foreign-sourced-income/ "(2) Non-Resident Income: The Order explains that if a person is not a resident of Thailand during the year in which they earn income, they do not need to include that income in their tax calculations, even if they bring that income into Thailand in a subsequent year when they are a resident. For example, Mr. B earns income from a rental property abroad in a year when he is not considered a resident of Thailand. Then He brings this income into Thailand in a following year when he is a resident, he is not required to calculate such income as assessable income and shall not be subjected to taxation in the year that those money brought into Thailand." Transient statement, or may it work that way I wonder.

I can't see a P60(s) being of much use as the don't align to the Thai Tax period. You would only be able to compile the info needed from pension payslips and your annual state pension letter, to submit a Thai tax return..

I think the problem with UK P60s will be they will be issued probably late April / May well past the deadline for submitting a Thai return by the end of March. Also they do not relate to the Thai Tax year. The figures on them will have the first 13 weeks of Thai Tax year missing and include 13 weeks of the next Thai Tax year. I think they may only be useful to demonstrate cumulative historical taxed income, that would related to funds remitted to Thailand later. (I'm not normally Thai tax resident in the past or now). The recent Q&A update, seemed to suggest it may still be accepted as savings, as it was earned when not tax resident in Thailand. Should I ever have to submit a return would the Thai RD accept the pension Gross and Tax deducted as they come off the pension payslips, at least one is a PDF download only. If they don't this will be completely unworkable IMHO, as I don't see any other way of presenting the UK taxable income relative to a Thai Tax year. The other worry would be Thai RD potentially putting there paw out for tax, already deducted in the UK and asking that I should claim it back in the UK. It's all potentially one big headache, due to perceived uncertainty, it may be easy (but have doubts) I've absolutely no idea what Thai RD are like to deal with, and maybe no one has, for their attitude and custom and practice going forward after these recent amendments to their rules / standing orders. Would be nice if some UK folks would post their experience in this respect, when transacting with Thai RD, when it happens

That's what confused me on various posts over the years, why people getting their pensions direct credited did not mention tax complications. In 2018 I took an early retirement (at the time thought temporary), making sure I was under 180 days in Thailand. that gave me a savings amount potential for sending to Thailand under the current saving from previous years rules, and not direct crediting anything to Thailand. With that few years savings buffer and the savings accounts being ring fence, I could avoid tax complications indefinitely, That is what is now no longer available. I've only been Thai Tax resident in 2019, but only savings remitted. Being a UK resident only my small Government pension is covered by the DTA. Everything of my income is taxed at source in the UK, or is zero tax rated via Government authorised savings Schemes. As HMRC said back in 2018 they can see everything I have on their screen, it is purposely structured that way. I reckon I will always be considered tax resident in the UK, but now have the prospect of the complication of a tug of war on some of the tax. As well as wondering what a Thai revenue person would accept, as only pension payslips would be available etc the tax years between the two countries are 13 weeks out of sync etc. All I can do for now is try and ringfence the elements that I have payslips showing Tax deduction, and keep an ongoing record, and try an only send to Thailand from that group. This change is nothing to look forward to! Should I be there more than 179days in the future, that would only give perhaps 60k allowance, 150k zero Tax band 100k from a pension from a DTA covered pension, before complications... .

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rdr3-statutory-residence-test-srt/guidance-note-for-statutory-residence-test-srt-rdr3#sufficient-ties-test

I wonder what their calculations considered a. Loss of individuals that relied on the no tax on income remittance from previous years x how many? (zero VAT spend unless on a tourist visit maybe) b. Loss of VAT spend for half the year (after>179 days) x how many? c. Deter significant numbers of tax resident folk, to restrict what is brought into Thailand, to reduce spend and VAT receipts, buy less or smaller material items/ property, x how many x proportion. d. Slight GDP impact for a. b, & c. e. Increase in the overhead cost within the RD.

So you move to Thailand for more than the 179 Days, bring in money earned or tax assessed in previous years out-with Thailand, They want a tax return, because you remitted money (?), but none of it is assessable. This RD Q&A updates the initial announcement, which did not mention the previous years of earnings as non-resident can still be considered savings as at present? So shall you get a penalty for not declaring that you have nothing to declare?

Well the it seems clear that with previous years income no longer converting to be considered savings in a ring fenced account before sending to Thailand in a later year. From a UK perspective, unless you have Dividends from immovable property (which I have none) or Gov or local authority Pensions (which I have some). Pretty much everything else is liable to tax in Thailand as soon as you click past the cumulative179 day threshold. The clarity would be why they would not pursue it? From my pension point of view it's all taxed in UK, but has (ex-Gov . ones) the potential to be assessed in Thailand. The potential complexity is the disappointment here, it is like they seem want to put a little salt in the Tea rather than sweetener, still drinkable, but are you still happy with the Tea house, though the cakes are good. Since I'm still in they UK, my first action is for me to direct all taxed at source income to a single bank and assoc. savings from that ring fenced from everything else (as far as practicable). It's just going from simplicity to complexity, and the potential time it uses up, that it disruptive, for extended tourist status...

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b05425fed915d1317445ed2/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf Property income dividends get "FULL RELIEF", so only UK tax probably, https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a80bddc40f0b623026953eb/uk-thailand-dtc180281_-_in_force.pdf (1) Income from immovable property may be taxed in the Contracting State in which such property is situated. (3) The provisions of paragraph (1) of this Article shall apply to income derived from the direct use, letting, or use in any other form of immovable property.

Yes me to, redacted four digits, most correspondence on email normally say account ending ****5555. The important thing is your name and address on the statement and the amount, why would they need the whole number, as you are not doing a financial transaction with them.

This was some info at the beginning of May 2023 (London)... "You may apply for a Non-Immigrant O visa if you are married to a Thai national, or have a Thai citizen child (with your name as a father on the birth certificate), For a dependent for your spouse/children as you're going to work in Thailand (Non-Immigrant B) as a Non-Immigrant O staying with your family it will be single entry only. (Please do not submit multiple entries)The visa fee is not refundable. Please see the documents required, please follow the steps below. Non-Immigrant Type O (Visiting or staying with applicant's family residing in Thailand single Maximum stay of 90 days/ 3 months validity) or Multiple (Maximum stay 90 days per entry/validity for 1 year) A list of documents 1. Passport or travel document with validity, not less than 6 months, and at least 2 blank pages 2. Your recent photo (selfie is acceptable) 3. Marriage certificate / Birth Certificate 4. Spouse's Thai ID card/passport 5. Financial evidence showing savings of not less than £10,000 for multiple entry visa, or £1,000 for single entry, e.g. bank statements, proof of earnings, for at least 1 month 6. Proof of residency e.g. council tax bills, driving license 7. Travel history in the last 1 year- please upload a page of your passport with a visa stamp, or a blank page if not travelled in the past year 8. Photo of the applicant holding his/her passport 9. Your flight and accommodation (hotel booking for the first few days will be acceptable) details" I only applied for a single, but was hoping to get a multi again perhaps 2025 on!

Worked fine on a new Thai phone July 2023, but to set up you need a one time code SMS sent to your registered phone number to activate it (which was a UK number which I had with me)

UK DTA "19. (2) (a) Any pension paid by the Contracting State or a political subdivision or a local authority thereof to any individual in respect of services of a governmental nature rendered to that State or subdivision or local authority thereof shall be taxable only in that State" (Unless you are a Thai National). https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a80bddc40f0b623026953eb/uk-thailand-dtc180281_-_in_force.pdf Government Pensions = Full Relief Other Pensions & Annuities = No relief https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/710099/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf The pension from Government Service ( I've got a smaller bit of pension direct from the Gov. and another bigger bit which is paid from a company, but was for other purposes continuous service. probably only take the first bit as full relief likely.) All other pensions all potentially taxable in Thailand as far as I can see, if there more than 180 days. The thing is, that is the situation this year and before as well, there is no upcoming change I know of! There is no change, so they don't seem to be targeting pension income before or now??? Is that because many other DTAs exclude pensions? Is it because the pensions are pre-taxed in the UK, and will create much extra work? Not sure what the Thai RD practice form Jan 2024 will be.....

IMHO If the money remitted is (or from savings and) not from income, or that considered as income under the Thai code, paid to yourself in the calendar year 2023 etc it should be exempt if it clears in the Thai Bank before 29th December 2023, (with simple explanation if asked, but keep the trail just in case). Then it all perhaps changes to explain everything potentially from 1st Jan 2024 if your over the 179 Days. There never has been a blanket exemption other than in the clause that has been anticipated, to expire at the end of 31st Dec 2023. Not seen the formal amendment detail as as yet. As someone that is almost always likely to be principally UK based, and the most I've ever stayed in Thailand (tax year, and only once) was about 265 days-ish, and never more than about70 days at any one visit (since 1993 first visit), the change just removes simplicity. It's an incentive not to exceed 179days, and if circumstances suggest to be there more than 179days an incentive not to send and spend in Thailand. A shame really.

For a visit wife non-O, they said more than £1000 for a single entry and more than £10000 for a Multi entry Visa (May 2023)