UKresonant

Minimum wages are revised in Thailand with effect from 01 January 2024. The minimum wage in Bangkok has increased from THB353. 00 THB363. 00 per day 6days x 363 x 52weeks = 113256THB (not them) The medium fish probably using online or bank trading platforms, for traceable overseas transactions, (part of the focus of the change), low hanging fruit. (easy) Perhaps knowing that Expats are more likely to complain they shall provide an expedited service, for such.

The tax scheme is already in place, but now income from previous year(s) must now be considered as income rather than savings, from 1st Jan 2024 going forward. It has been mentioned that they are perhaps to issue a new tax filing form, for the small minority that remit pre-taxed overseas income, to allow listing of their taxes paid overseas, as a credit against the Thai Tax computation (where relevant). Perhaps some administrative procedures need to be amended and implemented but nothing much. I suppose there could be a legal challenge perhaps, that may form an opinion.

Thailand is most likely very happy the money is coming in, but it is absolutely up to Thailand to decide what they are and are not happy about. Happy.

Can only say most likely, better enquire with your IO, should be fine it's getting deposited in a Thai Bank and revenue department recognise it, what more could they ask for! With Thai based earnings, they even allowed it to be an average of 40K/month in the past. (They may ask for your current tax filing for the 2023 year?)

No the the combination method was only for Retirement, even that unfortunately that seems to have slid in to an area of possible discretion rather than a clearly listed option...

Updated response Hope all the Tax Offices have that clear understanding! If Thai RD decided to tax it all , not just the excess over what had been deducted in the UK, for remitted non-Government / Private Pensions taxed at source , and said get it back from the UK, there appears to be no path to do that... https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/double-taxation-treaty-relief-form-dt-individual "Part C.2: Work pensions and purchased annuities Enter details in Part C.2 if you receive a pension or purchased annuity from the UK. Most DT treaties provide for pensions and purchased annuities from the UK to be paid to a resident of the other country without UK tax taken off. The DT Digest gives information about whether relief from UK tax is available and if there are any special rules". It could be that someone has perhaps only say only a private pension paid to Thailand from the UK, and has applied for an NT tax code to not have it Taxed in the UK and then only pays the Thai Tax.

Just trying to catch up.. So if a Government Pension (UK), that is only taxed in the UK under an Article within the DTA, it should not be entered on a tax filing form. just don't list it anywhere. Is that the concensus ?

Can you not rely on your tax record in that case, if you work and pay taxes in Thailand, for the income method?

I think he is correct. If the Tax is paid in the UK at source, taxed in the UK, I'm glad that is accepted as there is no route to claim the relief back in the UK if Thailand did fully tax you. I Think Thai RD could still tax you on the difference, if the Thai Tax is higher. It could be that someone has perhaps only say only a private pension paid to Thailand from the UK, and has applied for an NT tax code to not have it Taxed in the UK and then only pays the Thai Tax.

No Yes or no answer as far as I have read. Inheritance tax if you don't apply not to be domiciled elsewhere, (after many many years) sounds like it would maybe be a yes But for income yes or no, as in you cant apply for relief on UK Tax using the DT-individual Form against pensions, but maybe you could apply for a NT Tax code for a private pension, so the tax tax is not deducted at Source, if you are permanently out of the UK year after year?. Depends p.s. Government pensions on the list only taxed in the UK though. "Article 19 Governmental Services... (2) (a) Any pension paid by the Contracting State or a political subdivision or a local authority thereof to any individual in respect of services of a governmental nature rendered to that State or subdivision or local authority thereof shall be taxable only in that State." https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-manual/intm343040 https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/nation/english_e.pdf

Generally Yes. But UK will always have tax rights on a Government pension. If you are in Thailand almost all the time year after.year, ThRD could claim priority taxing rights on some things, under article 4 of the DTA Someone recently noted they asked their tax office, and they said ok with either way, which suggests some flexibility. Don't think it would work more than an initial year for dividends and interest and the like, as they are generally not taxed at source, and even dividends from ISA's (tax free in UK) would be taxed in Thailand if sent / remitted there. The bit you mention and DTA article 23 3) refers, to tax credit of UK tax against Thai Tax ( where applicable)

Every little helps as they say! Your fire brigade pension was a contracted out scheme, same as my occupation service scheme(s), so based on what the state pension is now. =My rough calculation is that your unlikely going to be paying any Thai Tax! (and had no tax to pay going back at least 3 years) Only hassle is to gather up as much of the pension paperwork as possible in case you have to file,.

No unfortunately our DTA does not a a specific clause similar to the USA Social Sec , for the UK State pension scheme, (but further clarification on the state pension may evolve perhaps) Especially if the majority of your pension service years were with the Fire Brigade, I'm already anticipating the various over 65 allowances shall reduce the amount of the Tesco and State pensions, that will be considered in any RD Tax calculation. So I'm Guessing something like (monthly) Fire Brigade = No Thai Tax State Pension + Tesco Pension per month, take away about 32000 baht a month for allowances and the zero Tax band, then anything not cancelled out, if any, has only 5% tax (for the next 12.5k/month) You should also be able to claim a Tax Credit for the Tax paid on the Tesco PAYE which will then equate it to the net amount sent to Thailand, as you say the Tax is deducted in the UK. The state pension will have no Tax deducted, it will therefore not generate any Tax Credit.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-manual/intm343040 Fire Brigade - paid directly by a Local Authority Fire Brigade - paid by a Fire Authority (Fire Fighter's Pension Scheme) These are classed a Government Pensions and are only taxed in the UK unless you have Thai Nationality!

I'm very sorry that you are feeling so low. I would try and not worry about this tax thing, someone will be able to help in due course, and many will have very similar situation. Just keep copies of your pay advices from your pensions, and.your P60 and annual state pension letter, and tax coding letter Issued in the the UK, from now on. (I think just forget about anything before 2023) Your health is always the most important priority, life is always worth living...Wishing you well.

Never done that in Thailand, or a 90day report, always flew back to the UK and came back on another 90 day entry. But I suppose Air fares are proportionately higher now

I'm still hoping the main theme, will be, along with CRS compliance, is that very thing, that if you have paid tax on your income somewhere, things are generally OK. The RD's change of rule interpretation by memo, was briefed in arricles that retirees are not the principle target of the re-interpretation of procedure. RD were not even set up to deal with the likes of tax credits arising via DTA's as the vast majority of Thai RD's customer base will be Thai nationals. Retirees are on the periphery, giving a very small inbound positive Fx base load contribution, and a VAT spend. UK HMRC just has a page saying to kinda write to Thai RD head office about tax credits, as they don't have have a relavant form. Not taxing income from previous years, for me was a haven of certainty, knowing exactly where you were, not fearing penalties and the like. Now it seems to have gone to the other end of the scale. But at least by keeping remittance basis and the 180 day definition it is not a total deterance on time and inward spending in Thailand, just a substantial one.

Just pondering over https://www.rd.go.th/english/37699.html#section9 "Section 9 Unless stated otherwise, if it is necessary to convert foreign currency into Thai currency in order to comply with this Title, it shall be converted using the exchange rate which the Ministry of Finance announces from time to time. 1 1N.MF.Re: Rates of Exchange of Foreign Currencies Against Thai Currency under Section 9 of the Revenue Code". ;- https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/kormor/eng/NOOF_Exchange_Rate.pdf "(2) the exchange rate based on a daily reference rate as announced daily by the Bank of Thailand for the conversion of foreign currency into Thai currency. Once any of the above exchange rate conversion is used, such rate shall continue to be used unless the Director-General of the Revenue Department grants approval to change the exchange rate conversion" ;- https://www.bot.or.th/en/statistics/exchange-rate.html Would it be the Transfer rate on the date of filing I wonder. Pending guide item 33 A :- https://www.rd.go.th/english/37749.html Chapter 3, Section 40, para 1 So if the "taxed only in UK pension" which is of assessable type, the order in which it is considered may become important. i.e. against the highest applicable band. "most beneficial to the payer"

Private and non-Government UK pensions (Random Number Example) Gross Pension 1 £15k - UK Tax £1k (100% of net remitted to Thailand) Gross Pension 2 £10k - UK Tax £2k (100% of net remitted to Thailand) Gross Pension 3 £5k - UK Tax £1k (100% of net remitted to Thailand) Gross Pension 1 £15k - Thai Tax £1.6k Gross Pension 2 £10k - Thai Tax £1.8k Gross Pension 3 £5k - Thai Tax £1.2k Thai Tax £4.6k - UK Actual tax paid £4k applied as a tax credit. Circa £600 (if DTA article 23 3) applies) Thai tax to Pay. (Updated form from RD anticipated) If your pensions were remitted to Thailand in past years the year after they were paid, no worries. Should work something like that, but the practicalities, and what documents they would require is still mysterious to me I'm not currently Tax Resident in Thailand, and will always have Ties to the UK. If your no longer Tied to the UK, and are out there all the time, maybe could get a NT tax code, and not have tax in the UK deducted?? (but not .Gov Pensions). Government pensions are only Taxed in the UK https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-manual/intm343040 Whole variety of different factors, exchange rates timing, documentation, mood of the Tax assessor, any other income perhaps only allows a close approximation what it maybe. I'm worried about getting caught between the two Tax Systems, as probably like your self, Tax is deducted automatically at source in the UK. Should I have to do a Thai Tax Return in The future, will the dream up documents I don't have, require them to be stamped by an entity that knows nothing about them before acceptance, might not be in Thailand at time of filing. More worried about the practicalities of doing it now, rather than the structure which I know a little more of now.

Sorry but that is not sparking a eureka feeling, any more context? There was someone posting years ago speculating that if there were an equivalent Thai State pension exempt from Thai Tax, the UK State pension could be considered under article 24 of the UK DTA "(1) The nationals of a Contracting State shall not be subjected in the other Contracting State to any taxation or any requirement connected therewith which is other or more burdensome than the taxation and connected requirements to which nationals of that other State in the same circumstances are or may be subjected." Whilst trying to explain why pensioners were not bothered for tax on their pensions remitted. Would be good if they had an article on state pension but it is just absent (compared with other DTAs) to clarify is or is not, Maybe the negotiators were over in Thailand partying at the time, and that bit was part of the morning agenda....

My Dad has done less than 179days per calendar year for 20years now as belt and braces approache to never be tax resident (& without having to explain anything. More than 179days cumulatively there in Thailand, between 1st Jan 31st-Dec. technically opens you to taxation complication, if you bring in income more than 120k Baht within that year. You would have to count a tax day, as any local time day you are present even for 1 second! Before you could bring in savings or income from the year prior tax free, so you would always be below the tax filing if asked. Plenty ways to avoid the complication with timing, or putting next your initial budget in a Thai bank the year you only visit less than 6 month, then only bring in <THB 120k in the tax year etc. For a stress free visit(s). How it w

E-visa does not show that notation. (Marriage basis) Nor does the previous sticker in the passport type. (Marriage basis) Just checked both versions. Yes, agree, Marriage or Retirement basis is not stated on the Visa either. So maybe MFA keep the basis of issue from RTP

Entering before the 28th the non-O ME (married) should give a further 90 Days entry stamp (did that 2020 but left a 3 or 4 day margin before exp date). But if the non-O marraige visa expires on the 28th it probably is then of no use to apply for an extention of stay for 12 months, only perhaps the 60 day extention. (Not done that though) See what the experts suggest. I would squeeze the last 90 day entry on the ME, maybe do a 60day ext. Then pop out and get a single entry Non-O retirement, and do the retirement extension within that visas validity? I got the impression the COVID, discretion was now fading into history...

Entering before the 28th the non-O ME (married) should give a further 90 Days entry stamp (did that 2020).

I always have the equivelent of 20k baht cash (per person) just in case that 1 in a hundred check happens. No problem on the 98 arrivals so far .....