UKresonant

Mr A has a savings account from before 2024 holding 16000 thb (deposited before 1st Jan 2024) . He remits this money = IMO would expect not taxable (if isolated from any interest arising in the savings account). any year. capital gain money realised from selling 80 shares in 2025, to Thailand in 2026. Still taxable for the year 2026? IMO would expect = Yes taxed as income.

Most now $1000 equiv minimum balance (without incurring fees eating it away).

Financially allergic perhaps , thought they were supposed to be amending the tax return form? Why would everyone have to hire an accountant? If I send money to a foreign currency account, the ATM translates it, and it is widely accepted (except for those Scan only places)... Oh your making it sound like the less than 179 days situation may prevail again

Yes that is a concern, I have perhaps four different pension sources I'm going to group together, tax deducted clearly shown but perhaps 30 pay advices, UK P60 end of year certs probably useless as the don't align with the Thai Tax year, impractical to start legalising or translating it all, to many bits of paper. Might be possible to download a summary or get a summary cert from UK HMRC. as all these things (for myself) are taxed at source every month (or immediately if a once off from two other sources). It would perhaps be so much more complicated for folks with dissimilar sources and types of income. Yes I agree it is the further worry of what information the Thai RD shall likely recognise to accept the tax credit / offset validity, as I could only give them equality of information. Will they be reasonably consistent or will it be found to vary substantially office to office, officer to officer (as I've read about on many anxious posts within the the immigration subject). With the revision of there standing orders will the emphasis of what they require also change from past practice? I'm sure many would like to know in advance of exceeding 179 days, if not resident there, other than in a Tax sense.

The Swiss DTA appears to have a lot of similar wording to the UK DTA, and reading parts of it it could desend into a complex jurisdictional, impractical credit / reclaim / time miss-match situation. But the announcements that have been suggesting it's not going to be a Problem if your country has a DTA with Thailand hopefully will rely on;- UK-TH Article 23 "(3) In the case of Thailand, United Kingdom tax payable in accordance with this Convention in respect of income from sources within the United Kingdom shall be allowed as a credit against Thai tax payable in respect of that income. The credit shall not, however, exceed that part of the Thai tax, as computed before the credit is given, which is appropriate to such item of income" CH-TH Article 20 "3. In the case of Thailand, Swiss tax payable in respect of income derived from Switzerland shall be allowed as a credit against Thai tax payable in respect of that income. The credit shall not, however, exceed that part of the Thai tax, as computed before the credit is given, which is appropriate to such item of income." So hopefully it will work that pension income taxed in the UK, and all the value of an individual pension being remitted to Thailand, will be allowed to put the tax deducted at source in the UK as a credit against a Thai Tax Return. But still how if this works in practice still to be seen. So being non-resident at the moment, I'm thinking (assuming) I need to isolate fully taxed income in one bank, and only ever plan to send money to Thailand from those accounts which originate from that fully taxed income stream. (as well as creating some small savings pots whilst not resident perhaps). The Thai tax would not be to much once over 65 (on the distant horizon), and the UK state pension kicks in (just over the horizon since they moved it back twice )

I see Singapore - UK DTA would do what they did on your income, for non Government pensions / state pensions as well "full relief". Where as with the Thai -UK DTA it looks like HMRC would not refund "no relief". so totally reliant on being able to deduct UK Tax paid from a Thai-RD return and Thai RD accepting that?

But is there not a traditional old remedy, in the tourist sector, that if there are less customers, the prices need to be increased, presumably to attract more customers (not)

After the lengthy discussion on the subject here, I think the "leaving and throwing temper tantrums" bit should be held in reserve should Thai RD proceed to Global taxation rather than current remittance basis. (However I hope they don't copy the relatively arrogant attitude many of our home countries adopt, which you don't tend to notice, until your looking at the subject from the other direction). But I'm looking at this from the point of view of presently not being in Thailand and not in the firing line, and only thinking of configuring the UK end to be as clear as possible, should the PITA paperwork need to be compiled in Thailand in the future. I think the longest cumulative number of days in one tax year I've ever stayed there is about 270 days, with 70days longest entry, since the first time I went there in 1993, (when the daughter was just under two, and there was a need to visit the Thai side of the family ). If they retain the remittance basis and if you can simply deduct the UK tax paid on that specific income, from the Thai Tax liability that would work OK in my situation. But it may limit by preference and incentive, the amount remitted to Thailand, as it would be mostly only be the bit with full tax credit. It wouldn't work if they haggle over where it should be taxed. But I'm sure there could be a lot of non-resident visitors

"any money" can't explain what you are living on? ( if your there most of the time) Think you would at least want to transfer a plausible amount?

That's a pity, I had seen the post that the tick box had disapeared after the e-visa site was changed. But had not seen the embassy had said no more! MEMO was great for allowing forward planning of flights well in advance and spontanious short breaks out of Thailand. Quickest turnaround I did was 8 days, strangely that included a couple of days trip to RTE London to renew the daughter's Thai Passport , (just before COVID hit).

If you are only needing 5 months at a time. The single entry non-O + 60 day extension is probably your best bet. In the UK they want £1000 on a bank statement for a single and £10000 in the bank for a multi entry. (More stringent about giving the Multi these days) So your RTE will be similar probably. If you have clear breaks of weeks between single entries, especially if you return to your home country, don't anticipate it would be a problem... The multi non-O is an excellent visa, when I had them previously, but I was returning to the UK often.

I still think the only sure way is to limit yourself to be non tax resident at that point <179days in that Calendar year. You could also set up savings accounts for any cash retained in the UK with the interest credited, to a different account, to keep the principle "clean" as savings from a year you are non Thai resident for tax, to send to Thailand later (provide they keep the remittance basis in future).

So that seems to be in line with https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/thailand/individual/income-determination#:~:text=In order to support low,amount not exceeding THB 190%2C000. with clearer wording. 30k+30k(spouse) 150k at zero =210000 baht total at zero tax under 65. So for the OP 190k allowance+30k(spouse) +150k at zero = 370000 baht total at zero tax over 65. So OP does indeed seem to be clear of tax! Still obliged to do a tax return? or no need as nothing due, and just keep all the information if asked?

I'm can't seem to get a clear calc on this aspect I thought the 150k was replaced by the 190k at 65? different articles phrase it differently. I was almost thinking it was definitely;- 30000baht personal allowance 30000baht more personal allowance for spouse if they did not file a return themselves 190000baht zero tax if over 65 years of age. 250k p.a. before any tax kicks in 20.8k/month ? So for me (not claiming the spouse bit) I revamped the spreadsheet as 30k+150k at zero =180000 baht total at zero tax under 65. 30k+190k at zero = 220000 baht total at zero tax over 65. Edit;- I just read another page which suggests 30k+150k at zero =180000 baht total at zero tax under 65. 190k allowance +150k at zero = 330000 baht total at zero tax over 65.

The interest, as you say would be 2024 income, but if it is paid to the other account in HK HSBC which is not remitting money to Thailand, it would not be relavant to a Thai tax return. Any tax would only concern Hong Kong. The pre2024 capital when remitted, does not need proof of taxes paid in the past etc (or so I've read) Thankfully for now they appear to be retaining the remittance basis in Thailand If they moved to global tax it will be a concern. ( a disaster for many )

It does not appear that it would be. That stack of savings would be good to keep ring fenced perhaps. Have all interest generated paid to a different account, so it is pure pre-2024 savings (with no new taxable income/interest credited within the account). Perhaps use a new account for new year, until it is shown how things actually work in practice.

If only the state pension was given so simply. The 35 years is the headline but many are then affected by the small print. I've 40 full years of NI, but need 46 years to get the FULL new state pension which either 6 years of voluntary circa £5k or via employment!

It can be clearly defined at the outset, but as time and years moves on it's like it's written on kitchen roll with a sharpie pen . Investment companies and banks merge, you move things around for best returns and it becomes progressively more difficult to demonstrate the divisions. Five years ago the Sharply defined savings pots, a number of years budget set aside for future transfer to Thailand, would be easy to prove but now maybe not so easy. As I'm still in the UK, not currently tax resident in Thailand, I'm thinking that I need to split things up into;- a) Pension income that is taxed at source in the UK (and savings pots only from that income if Thai Tax resident). Earned income similarly. b) Savings from before 2024. c) Savings that are prior to being tax resident in Thailand. d) ISA income / interest & State Pension (when it comes) etc that has no tax deducted *as far as practical, not to be remitted to Thailand as it would not generate a tax credit, But only useful if Thailand retains the >179 day residency and remittance definitions.

Medical insurance possibly, but since I was operating on and based my (at the time temporary) early retirement on the 1 year non-O multi along with the best 92day per trip travel insurance I could find, and did enquire of a Thai policy as well. The broker said he could not honestly sell me one, as I may not meet the over 180days(6month) in 12 month T&C condition. Could look at it again.. Curious coincidental time period to the subject at hand. A lot of visa requirement detail has changed in the 5 years since then, if not the headline requirements. I suppose the LTF fund could be like a little insurance policy if it were to save tax, but tend leave Thai based assets to the Thai ID card carrying members of the family! (using their own resources )

Yes that would certainly help, but not applicable for a few years yet and I have to wait till 67 on the State pension kicking in. I maybe need to do a "in 4 and bit years" and "in 6 and a bit years time" version

I'm trying to compare the Thai taxes and the UK Taxes, I'm not really seeing that Thai Taxes are lower, just not much more. I'm only considering pension income taxed at source in the UK [for my own purposes] I would think the remittance basis is efficient if I kept the income below £12.5k~540k Baht to use up the UK nil band, and isolate in a separate UK account, pensions (since I have a few pre-taxed sources) that would be over the 540K THB, which would generate a full tax credit somewhere! (UK or TH) I only have one DTA applicable pension in the stack . Would seem to be pretty thin until the state pension turns in for duty! I need to generate some isolated, non-resident savings mini pots for potential future use perhaps. If they did move it towards a global income as rumoured, that's when it would become a lot more than a admin nightmare, Not having been, and not anticipating being 100% there in the future. It would make for a full under 179 day deterrent as default. Did this back of the packet spreadsheet, which is only a generalisation, It assumes t/t rate of 1GBP =43THB .

Government or non-Government list https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-manual/intm343040 If they are Government pensions on that list, the UK will always tax it in the UK Discussing a Civil Service pension with HMRC (albiet 5 years ago) it is covered by the UK Thailand DTA, however she said it is possible in some cases they would want the tax paid and refund it. but probably not. (discussion was context assuming I was basic rate mortal e.g. under £50kish these days, but only£30k ish in Thailand ) This wording is on the tax coding letter for someone who's state pension exceeds the personal allowance;- "State Pension Note 2. This income is taxable but tax is not taken off the pension before it is paid to you. We will use the tax-free allowance against your pension so you pay tax on this" .... The State pension amount exceeding the personal tax allowance is then added to another pension and has tax paid by that scheme. So if you are below the personal tax free allowance, that goes against the other pensions. I'm not sure what they do if you don't have another pension in payment..

First question has the new requirement come into force or is it start or end of 2024 please? It is more like an old way of doing will expire, in that (for example) if you rolled up income in a bank in home country or outside Thailand during 2022 and waited until 2023 to remit it to Thailand, in would be considered as savings coming into Thailand. That automatic assumption will expire after 31st December this year. So money remitted in during 2024, will be much more complex to show as savings, as opposed to income, should you need to do a tax return (first one affected will be the early 2025 one...).

My long term past and future thoughts are to own nothing in Thailand, (maybe apart from clothes, toothbrush travel bag, shaver, and computer or tablet). Only the wife and two kids have Thai ID cards, so they are the ones to own 'Stuff' over there . But it's a sad day when you have to even consider this subject regarding close family. I hope these rumours of global income tax aspiration are not copied from the USA , especially if they copy citizens have to report. (since I quite enjoy the 5 yearly mini-break to London with the daughter to renew her Thai passport, the last one was within an 8 day border bounce back to the UK, for a last ME Visa entry, not long before COVID hit).

"They then asked for photo copies of every statement from my Non-Thai Bank Accounts (I have 3 in the UK ..)" Wow totally impossible if I were in Thailand to compile such information, even if in PDF download I would anticipate. [I phoned one of my UK banks up (call centre A=Yes) back in May this year, I was wishing to pin an example of one months net pension income on a non-O application. Went to the Branch, (which is now a 10 mile round trip compared with a walk down the High street), asked if they could Stamp the extract showing 25th April - 24th May , to show one months Pensions paid in (as two minor pensions Started in April), "We no longer have a branch stamp" also they would have to take the extract, but then could not manipulate their own software, best effort was a quarterly extract 1st March - to that Day the 25th May, stamp "Certified true Copy" sign it and put the branch address hand written and signed, Branch staff were trying to help, but just did not have the tools. Pined another banks paper statement scan on the application which could also be used] I was going to proceed on the basis of having one UK account and only remit fully taxed net income from there, with trail, any other UK accounts should not be relevant if no credit of funds from them to that account. If they are considering they want to pick, what they think is remitted, would seem the same as the Global income scenario if they do. Will probably proceed this way anyway, and await more RD clarity and custom and practice posts to emerge. Also curious if I could still gift to my wife, whilst I am non-resident, savings from previous years, with trail, under the new arrangements, or whether she would get hammered for Tax on any remittance anyway. Another potential problem.