UKresonant

Hope they would agree. as Gross taxable income, less amount of tax credit relief, is what would actually be arriving into the bank in Thailand. (less the Thai banks inward deposit fee, could you claim the fees as expenses perhaps ) Expecting Thai tax would be slightly more so something to pay likely, but minimal once I'm 65.

From my context / view [......] UK State & Private pensions are not [reserved to be taxed in the UK initially] by the UK/TH DTA. But are covered by DTA article 23 3) that they should not be double taxed. (credit relief) It could be if your out of the UK for years (unlikely in my situation), perhaps you could apply for the tax not to be deducted in the UK and then all the tax falls to Thailand, but I could not do that with my Government pension as UK has first rights for taxation.

Passport No On Thai bank accounts Taken every time you change Money (but not sure what level the report at, general stats maybe at the moment). Recorded each entry and exit of the country.

Hopefully their systems will be intelligent enough, that the flag will drop off in the Jan to March period, (when a return would be due), to check the immigration database if you have been 180 days or more in year and drop the flag if not..The Banks have your passport in their ID field on the computer after all.

Yes, interesting point about depositing the money, it may have to be explained especially if you use it for anything official.

It's just remitted income considered for the moment, if it goes global in later years the 179 day limit method may be the go to situation. Yes, global tax would be like mosquito repellent that works 55% of the time . Thai RD don't seem to have the tax return forms to express things correctly, so we may do a return to show the Gross pension income (or similar), with what actually gets remitted to Thailand i.e. minus the tax credit relief value claimed. which would be in the Thai bank account (less a wee bit for the Banks after fees). Then to determine any additional tax due in Thailand (or not). They are supposed to be generating a new form apparently, but will it make things simple or not is still a mystery. Will it be like learning to ride a bike, once you've done it once....??

Though I have big doubts that the Wife would currently want to settle in the UK, she may have different thoughts when she retires. I've always sought to keep the pension design to cover the potential UK financial requirement, additionally, in my own right, as a belt and braces approach, in case of a glitch in the Thai end paperwork, should an application ever be thought of. I had just recently exceeded it with my U.K. (indexed) pension income (also coincidentally circa one of the other Thai visa income requirements) required by a margin and could still be on target if they had C.P.I. indexed it, by also using some savings in the calc. now I would struggle to get there, (as my state pension which is still years off). I hope that article (mentioned above) is correct that they will back track sum what, but is another example of how many in Westminster, do not have the interests of UK nationals in the foreground of their thoughts, or on their checklist before take-off. Their attitude more than disappointing! (especially for those in Wales, who maybe have to be £6.5k above local average income to get over the hurdle) My sympathy goes out to anyone that would be affected and perhaps be currently very upset by this tunnel vision announcement by the home Secretary, which potentially demolishes their family's current plans.

I see the tax clearance RD page notes a period of over 90days. I think you have to have tax liability determined / listed before it was flagged up. I think it was late 90s early 2000s they discontinued enforcement for individuals. ( I remember some one commenting that the tax clearance cert was not a thing anymore about then with some relief on his part.

Thanks for getting back, will have to investigate if I could download or request a calander year something from HMRC. Never done a tax return, always had payroll departments to do that and since 5 years ago all my income sstreams are tax deducted at source or under tax free savings. Checked on the online web page then phoned HMRC back then to double check if they wanted one, as I was trading a few stock (below the allowance at.that time) HMRC said no, we can see everything on their screenI I think the P60s are just circumstantial as they don't match the period applicable to a Thai return, could present them and see if the like general evidence of tax paid.. Thanks again.

May I ask out of curiosity (for potential future use, as I'm in the UK presently), what do they normally accept as proof. would they likely accept UK pension pay slips/pension letters, showing amount of tax deducted already, maybe with a sample postal UK Bank statement showing the amounts being credited, prior to funds being remitted to Thailand? I could show only the proof I get!. As the tax year do not align I can't see P60s being much help. I think my Thai Tax would be only slightly more (to pay), compared to the UK, as long as they accept to allow credit relief for the taxes already deducted in the UK (but apparently Thai RD don't have a form to claim the credit relief to submit with a return, HMRC just says to write to them). I practice I'm sure the wife (and son later), will know the tax system inside out, but not the DTA aspects.

It's still only money you bring in/ remit to Thailand (the tax folks may look at from next year) thankfully. DTA is not a blanket exemption, some better wording in the US one for the likes of pensions and Social Security than some other DTAs pperhaps..

They need to be non tax resident at the transaction in Canada and non-tax resident in Thailand to remit it. So say January - June sale transaction in Canada, (Maybe Jan-March if it were the UK) arrive in Thailand Mid July, and remit a bit of the money timing any purchase in Thailand with legal clause it MUST complete before 31st Dec of the year or contract is Void. 8th of July to 31st December the new high season for aspiring tax residents, even if you get mowed down at a road crossing you don't have to worry about the tax residence bit for that year, whilst in Hospital. (and no tax on your hospital bill remitted funds, apart from any tax on it)! By the following year they will be more aware of the risks at crossings, and could leave by June if they consider it too dangerous

I'm going for separate Banks, never mind different accounts! (with any interest mandated to another account for pre-2024 small savings pots). One Bank will collect all taxed at source Pensions and annuities and I will try and not credit it with any other type of income. Only source of money to send to Thailand. (Which means the UK state pension & ISA income which have no tax deducted by design will go elsewhere) I always expect to be UK tax resident. The possible situation that Thailand would go Global in future and expect tax for income that is by design and Gov approval, not taxable in the UK, only spent in the UK, for essential upkeep and family matters in the UK, would extremely go against the grain. It would always be a considered parameter to try and avoid being in Thailand over whatever threshold prevailed then. But not the only parameter, life is never that simple.

Even with that amendment it may be problematic anticipating which documentation they will accept to prove the previous taxation happened on funds from previous years, we could store all the pay advice / pay slips, showing tax deducted, but will they dream of some other document that is impossible to produce and tax you anyway? No confidence. That would perhaps leave it in a position of only remitting the same in (Thai) tax year UK pensions received and then remitted, being already taxed in the UK to get credit relief on the Thai Taxation, if over 179 days that particular year. Then is it practical to put the return into Thai RD if then not in Thailand when it is due., Apparently they don't even currently have a form to list the taxation in respect to credit relief (as noted by UK HMRC). I think if they would only bring out a 10 year multi entry visitor visa, up to 180 days per visit, then the wife could be in the UK 180 days (<183) and I could be in Thailand up to 179 days . Just as likely as the lottery coming up I suppose, which is another solution, as I'm only tight with money I've earned

Exactly, no control of boarders, no analysis of housing capacity at affordable levels for the net increase in population, no, for example, scaling of health resources to match. It's being going on for years. Also generalisation of illegal route immigrants /refugees, like they were all template clones. Perhaps if there applications are accepted, they are made safe and can work, the cost of rescue in the channel (if applicable), and the legal route fees such as Visa, NHS-sc, should be logged against them similar to the Student Loan system, repaying once over an income threshold. The fact that they have went for a substantially over index increase for the family visa financials is another attempted distraction from the core problem of their inept coordination, planning and resourcing on the subject, in some aspects zero effort, sometime closing their eyes whilst pushing the problem on to local authorities. The governments lack of capability and talent is too frequently quite embarrassing. From another aspect they keep saying they are a unionist party, but keep giving the Nationalist parties something to highlight, such as in many regions median earnings are lower than the threshold set, compared to London which is substantially over. Much easier to be approved in London on average (though no more a demonstration of affordability), whilst in the different regions you must be above average. Many I suspect, will be settling in the region they consider home and perhaps with family initially. Another example of London Centric thinking will be claimed. e.g. https://www.statista.com/statistics/416139/full-time-annual-salary-in-the-uk-by-region/

Cashew nuts! It would be to the Wife, but I would need a little Job if I was the sole sponsor, could of met it if they had just indexed by CPI. Many will have complications I would anticipate. It will cause a lot of problems, perhaps a main sponsor will now have to leave, and work for 6 months before applying for the visa, and such like.

Family visa Financial threshold.... So if he indexed it by UK R.P.I. since July 2012 it would 377.1/242.1 x£18600 circa £29000 perhaps still under £30k when it starts. or UK C.P.I. 132/95.6x18600 circa £25700 so say £27K at start. So thinking perhaps £28.5k Vs £38.7k circa £10k of smelly stuff often found in a field included (at 07:50 in the video)

Agreed the NHS price is still very reasonable compared with private insurance perhaps.

The family visa financials will cause real problems for many I think. Edit >£112k (circa 5 million THB) from £62.5k cash savings method if it's a similar calc. to before, ouch!

Anyway, I'll share my thoughts on where I think I need to go, with a slight financial tweak in home country, as a current non-resident preparing for the possibility of filing a Thai Tax return in future years (>2026 at least, and will get some sugar free popcorn for first half of 2025). Always expecting to also be Tax resident in the UK, as well as Thailand additionally sometimes. I think there is a need to not mingle these source categories to allow a trail history, in order of preference for sending to Thailand;- Group one Savings from before 2024 (increasingly difficult to ringfence with paper trail) Group two Four Pensions all taxed at source in the UK, (one GOV. Taxed in the UK only), so the will all generate and demonstrate tax paid that can be used for credit relief against for the amount of tax actually paid in the paid in the UK. Thailand RD do not have a specific form for noting the expected credit relief so far, info this end just says to write to them?? Hope that becomes clearer. "Go by the treaty"* Article 23 of the UK-Thailand DTA "(3) In the case of Thailand, United Kingdom tax payable in accordance with this Convention in respect of income from sources within the United Kingdom shall be allowed as a credit against Thai tax payable in respect of that income. The credit shall not, however, exceed that part of the Thai tax, as computed before the credit is given, which is appropriate to such item of income". [the digest has No Relief against the non-Government pensions column but this is because there is not a specific mention in the treaty as note 4.Treaty does not include an article dealing with Non-Government pensions. Also, no relief for State Pension or ‘trivial commutation lump sum] *HMRC Technician, today. Group Three Savings from taxed income whilst non-resident including remitted to Thailand. Group Four Misc. wee bits and pieces (minor not worth defining) Group Five a) ISA Dividends, they would be treated as normal dividends if remitted to Thailand as the Tax free UK wrapper is ignored. (though all created from taxed income, this is effectively another minor pension, that at least one UK chancellor was promoting as retired income provision in the past. not for a DTA consideration it perhaps isn't) b) State Pension no tax deducted (when it comes). c) Other Dividends or interest. Noting b) and c) have potential to show more tax within Group Two, but trivial. So on a scale of Group One most likely to remit to Thailand, to Group Five least likely! So I will try and keep the different groups isolated for future potential questioning . A little project to get on with, but the questions could totally change again. May or not make things easier, in an ideal situation perhaps. UK DTA and Digest links https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a80bddc40f0b623026953eb/uk-thailand-dtc180281_-_in_force.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b05425fed915d1317445ed2/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf

I just heard ta snip of the UK Home Secretary speaking in the House of Commons Family visa financials doubled? NHS surcharge up 66%. Did I hear right Can't find much on google at time of posting (without a subscription anyway)

For the wider question of whether remitting funds in a year when not tax resident in Thailand Yes, as time moves on, it would be a problem if you were a tourist for 10 years and had remitted millions of Baht (and probably spent most, you become resident over 179 Days in year 11 and they wanted tax on it. . I would think they would want to keep the 180 day rule, anticipate people bringing money into the country is still a good thing? Think of someone being over in the region, staying a couple of months in a few places, then looking at In country extension financial requirements, and anticipating being taxed on that money going forward and all the other examples. I don't think most Thais would be looking to go out the country for 6 months very often to use that option. Glass half full? might scare away small golden eggs they would perhaps get VAT on, and then potentially zero. But that may be only viewed from our context, not for the folks they are saying they are targeting. "either further clear clarification from the RD department or through what happens in practice in 2025 or through a test case before a court." It would narrow it down a bit at least.

Within the RDs new posture, will this possibly become a problem again? I thought it had gone a couple of decades ago, but there is still a page kicking about apparently updated Nov 2020...if the dates page specific. https://www.rd.go.th/english/23518.html or is it one of these things that stopped being a problem early 2000's, or is it still lurking for possible symptoms to re-appear later?

At least 2/18 x 16000 =1778thb considered to be taxable I would imagine ? as you can't define the pre-2024 original principle, and this could also be complicated by compound interest? Difficult to pin it down to the exact satang on the return

Depends what your Investment funds consist of, if they are currency deposits, in an isolated account, with any interest generated mandated externally to a separate account that may, it would seem, to exclude it being assessable when remitted to Thailand, as you can demonstrate it is purely pre-2024 of the original principle. (easier said than done in practice perhaps, e.g. if the account matures and is transferred to an other account with interest shown, big oops ) If it is equities or commodities likely it would have a price movement gain or generate a dividend / interest, which may tarnish its validity for possible exclusion? (All speculation indeed)