UKresonant

15 hours ago, Lazy Sod said:

I ask because there is conflicting information.

HMRC website appears to say no as below, but I've found other websites, particularly financial advisors which say yes. Totally confused!!!

 https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-pension/tax-when-you-live-abroad#:~:text=If you live abroad but,the country you live in.

"If you’re not a UK resident, you don’t usually pay UK tax on your pension. But you might have to pay tax in the country you live in. There are a few exceptions - for example, UK civil service pensions will always be taxed in the UK."

Links I mentioned previously

See page 34 Thailand  OTHER PENSIONS / ANNUITIES = No relief (See Note 4)

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5b05425fed915d1317445ed2/DT_Digest_April_2018.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/paye-manual/paye81030

No relief

No exemption from UK income tax can be applied to the income concerned. It will remain liable to UK tax at the appropriate rates.

Page 7. "HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) publishes the Digest of Double Taxation Treaties (the DT Digest) which contains a summary of the relief available under each DT treaty."

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/637e192f8fa8f56eabf75e5b/Double_Taxation_Treaty_Relief_Form_DT-Individual.pdf

Annuities and other than Gov pensions do not have a specific article in;-

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a80bddc40f0b623026953eb/uk-thailand-dtc180281_-_in_force.pdf

It does have Article 23 (3)

You retain your UK personal allowance in the UK if you are a British citizen (along with others noted), in relation to UK tax. 

6 hours ago, Lazy Sod said:

I ask because there is conflicting information.

HMRC website appears to say no as below, but I've found other websites, particularly financial advisors which say yes. Totally confused!!!

 https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-pension/tax-when-you-live-abroad#:~:text=If you live abroad but,the country you live in.

"If you’re not a UK resident, you don’t usually pay UK tax on your pension. But you might have to pay tax in the country you live in. There are a few exceptions - for example, UK civil service pensions will always be taxed in the UK."

The fact that you have been in Thailand so long they may allow that (no deduction at source), under their discretionary authority you could be non domicile. 

If you google search HMRC form 'DT-Individual', it appears that they don't perhaps do that for Thailand. Read it in conjuction with the double taxation treaty digest 2018.

(I'm just on the phone so don't have the links to attach till home and on the PC.)

Some years ago, when I took a few of my early pension benefits, I was not tax resident in Thailand, so as to avoid any issues.

This would be a good subject to inject into one of current Tax threads.

5 hours ago, Lazy Sod said:

Is my UK pension annuity (with UK pension provider) subject to UK income tax?

I'm a British Citizen living permanently in Thailand for 30 years, coming up to retirement (in Thailand).

Non-resident in the UK for tax purposes, no question about that.

 

Question: is my UK pension annuity income subject to UK income tax?

 

Well one thing you will have to consider is if it is conventional Annuity, purchased from a money purchase pension fund, is that the UK tax free lump sum oprtion, may not be tax free if you are Thai Tax resident, and you send it to Thailand.

Most UK annuities, SIPP drawdown, etc are taxed at source in the UK. 

If you are buying an annuity with a pile of cash that's different as the monthly payment will have a return of capital element and a taxable income element. 

Not a simple yes no answer.

Super caution if you are tempted to transfer to an overseas provider, slightest discrepancy and a 55% tax charge could be made.

50 minutes ago, DonniePeverley said:

 

Here on O visa. Have income in Scotland. We are taxed there. We bring savings to Thailand, to help pay for fees for condo/utilities/schooling etc. 

 

Will we have to file taxes ?

Very Generally

Isolate you pre-2024 savings perhaps , as they are not assesable in future years.

Government Pensions are not taxable in Thailand (like civil service or military or local authority)

Most things that you generate overseas, including interest on pre-2024 savings, whilst you are Thai Tax Resident will be tax assessable, and may require a return filed, the bit you bring in is relavant to be taxed. 

Unrelised gains are not taxable, but Dividends most likely are, if remitted, whilst Tax resident.

Each person gets 60kTHB personal allowance.

The extra substantial allowance of 190000baht kicks in at 65! (I've a while to go 

Depends on how you can structure what is brought in to Thailand.

(I'm in Fife currently) 

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Out of curiosity will I have to pay more or less Thai income tax on my Government pension, my military pension and my company pension as I bring in my pensions every month that they get paid?

 

I am asking for me and not for a friend,

 

Any information will be gratefully received with thanks.

If UK pensions?

Government / Military pensions only taxable in the UK under the UK Thai DTA (unless you have Thai Nationality)

check they are on the list

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-manual/intm343000

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-manual/intm343040

State NI and Private pensions are not in the DTA, but if the private pension is taxed already in the UK  under PAYE probably not much of an issue.

59 minutes ago, DonniePeverley said:

At the risk of scouring 232 pages, can someone give me a VERY brief description as to what is going on ?

 

 

Change effective 1st Jan 2024.

If less than cumulative 180Days same as before, not tax resident, in respect to overseas income.

If over 179 Days in Thailand

Pre2024 savings brought to Thailand from legit source no problem, keep your records though.

Overseas Income etc when less than 180 days in TH, ok

Income anywhere 2024 onwards, when you are tax resident in TH, when you remit  to Thailand any time 2024 or later may be taxed.

Lots of DTA, whether assessable catagory etc etc. and detail to consider....

Last year I just did a Hotel Booking, as they suggested, the first few days would suffice. Agoda booking.

(I've always had a return ticket. But often thought, if you have enough points an airline award ticket could be useful for one way, and just refert the points and booking later...

Will new DWP power to scan Bank accounts affect UK State pensioners and bank accounts of anyone linked to you, what ever that turns out to mean? (Civil servant and minister not on the same page apparently.)

First 20 seconds and from time 5:20 may be of particular interest, to potential and current state pensioners perhaps...

10 hours ago, Sparkling said:

Forgive me, must have been asked before.

 

we will soon move to Thailand, where i will apply for non o based on marriage.

with the account in my name, i got to send the money there.

my wife uses a wise acoount already. I could get one, too, but actually we have no need of another wise account.

 

if i use the wise account of my wife (sending the money from my account in germany to her wise acc.)  and from there to my bank acc. in Thailand,

may the IO have a problem like: "that is not your money", "not coming from you"

or does it just not matter at all?

 

thanks in advance

Don't think it would matter for moving 400k thb, (will you be waiting till after 6th July to stay non tax resident this calendar year..)

I think if you move regular monthly amounts, could anticipate lots of niggling little complications.

(Not sure what IOs may think, nor where they recieve their financial training )

If there is no gain so I can't see anything assessable. 

(Only reason would to be to match the loss against a gain, don't know if that's even relavant in the Thai tax code)

30 minutes ago, Patts said:

Hi, 

 

I'm travelling to Thailand on the 3rd April. I would like to stay in Thailand indefinitely so based on what I have read on google I thought I would need to apply for 90 day Non O - Visa online then convert / apply for a 1 year Visa in Thailand. However when I visit the thai e-visa website I cannot see an option for spouse Visa, the closest option seems to be stay with this family. 

 

I am under 50, have the required 400,000bht in a UK bank although I can transfer to my Thai bank if necessary.

 

 

Sounds good, £1000 + for SE non-O, so £10k in UK bank ideal for application.

The 400k needs to be in the Thai Bank 2 months before the extension application.

The have modified the e-visa for the TR so don't know if the non-O bit has changed as 9 months since I did one......

Best getting the visa soon as roumors of a bit of a price increase maybe 19 Mar.

(Did she give you and email noting she is aware of, invites your visit. Copy of marraige cert, copy of ID or Thai passport. Though I don't know if the supporting docs fields are still the same)

3 hours ago, JimGant said:

I have to agree with Mike on this one, but mainly as it impacts Thai citizens/fat cats, rather than we expats. Heretofore, the fat cat could just wait until a later year to bring in his foreign earnings to escape taxation. But that loophole appears to be closed. Certainly the powers-that-be aren't now going to allow fat cats to take extended vacations that negate their tax residency -- to use that year to remit all their overseas income..... But, wait -- maybe there's some interpretation that says, if no tax return is required to be filed for a year in which you weren't a tax resident, then no taxes on remittances received in that tax year. Yeah, doesn't pass the sniff test -- but maybe a deliberate "out" to accommodate the fat cats, who certainly would of had a say in all of this.

 

But, who cares -- no extended vacations on my horizon. Plus, Yanks aren't affected by any of this (yes, I know -- you Old World folks get tired of hearing this).

By omission it does appear to be the the case though, and as it would likely my full time in Thailand, later, is likely to be between 170days to 270 days in a calendar year. I may tend to keep the 170 day in Th years and remittances in blacked out room, stealth mode....

Don't want to be sniffed by RD!

I'm just on the phone just now so haven't looked back for the link to the RD page PDF, noted on the other .... from 2024 Thread. "The Norwegian question" which suggested a Global Filing, but with a remittance taxation, think it was about page 222 on that thread.

I keep having to have a look back to see that the Tax return filing is linked to remittances somehow, as distinct from

"Tax filing criteria."

Totally isolated from;-

Taxed on remitted assessable income. (after allowances.

Then I calm down again 

Thailand is by default Remittance Basis, you don't have to claim that status.

But do we see any possible Thai RD parallels for 2024 onwards, within this UK Tax Forum Q & A Exchange?  🤐

......

Q_1 . I am a UK resident but non-domciled.  I do not have UK income. I have foreign income which I have not remitted to UK. In such case, do I need to file a tax return? I read somewhere that I don't need to..

A_1. You will need to complete a Self Assessment Tax return (SA100), in order to claim the 'remittance basis'.  You will also need to complte SA109, boxes 28 to 40, to declare the unremitted income. (  🤯 )

Q_2 . Separate  question.  If I remit the money to and for use in UK, will I only be taxed for the income or gain arose from that particular tax  year disregarded any income or gain arose in previous tax years which I did not remit any fund to UK?

A_2 Any unremitted income from a previous year, that is remitted to the UK in a later year, will be subject to tax in that later year. .....

https://community.hmrc.gov.uk/customerforums/sa/4ec30d4c-3b25-ee11-a81c-000d3a8751e3

It does not scope the remittance , if non-resident later though, and then resident again scenario. Found a few UK forums with conflicting views maybe yes, maybe no!

For a Tax resident of Thailand who derives foreign sourced assessable income from 1st January 2024 onward,  such foreign source assessable income is brought into Thailand either in the 2024 year or a subsequent year. Appears to be the general jist of POR 162 /2566.

So if I were Tax Res in Thailand 2024 and non-tax Res 2025 and remitting the 24 assessable stuff in 2025, even if not tax resident then, you may have to have a think about that, as it has been theoretically tagged as Thai Tax Assessable if remitted later.  

Probability & practicality = up to you.  

Would hope folks would not to be waving the 24 docs later, with assumption they are immune from possible attention  when Tax resident again, at some future event.

But hopefully there won't be an Oh-dear report with some bear testing it at a future event.

Yeah it does that some times.

Does not like texture in backgrounds I've found.

Does not like any shadow.  

We use a old slightly off white / light cream bedsheet ironed and placed over a door as a background.

The son just takes my dads photo on an I phone and slightly crops it to approx.  h x width ratio of a passport photo

I always keep a pic that works for the next application, so you can populate everything and then go back and get the recent photo re-uploaded if it does not get the ok first attempt. . we've had about a 15% of might not work messages I would guess.

Most recent e-visa was approved in under 48hrs!

It's a bit of hit or miss I have an old photo that always comes up acceptable, and loaded that whilst I found the more recent 4 month old photo and went back and substituted it didn't like it cropped another copy of same very slightly and it was fine. File size is below the 3MB Maximum?

14 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

In 2025, I won't be in Thailand for 180 days, so I shouldn't be a tax-resident and can then transfer as much money as I want in 2025, right?

As long as it wasn't earned or derived in 2024 when you were a Thai Tax resident, you perhaps would not present proof  of that.....

Your 2025 earnings or pension etc should be no problem bringing it in.

1 hour ago, bluuskii said:

use to get a 1 year multiple NON-O based on family from Qatar but now with the e-visa they only giving single entry valid for 3 months.

The Multi Non-O (from London) is the only visa I've used other than a SE Tourist visa. It went away June 2019, with the e-visa, came back after COVID, and now is no longer on the system. SE Tourist or SE non-O appears the only options remaining compared with the original plan. Hardly Ideal.  

2 hours ago, mstevens said:

 

Thai embassies and consulates around the world standardise the price of visas. So if a visa costs NZD 50, it will be around USD 30 in the USA, UK 25 etc which is about the same price as NZD 50. There will be slight differences due to fluctuating exchange rates but they work out to be roughly the same price. This is nothing to do with New Zealand being an expensive country.

 

Assuming these visa fee increases as posted at the Thai Embassy in New Zealand are for real, you can expect similar price increases in all Thai embassies and consulates around the world from the same date, March 19.

 

These price increases are very steep!

Looks like x6 at least, SE Tourist is £30, and SE non-O is £60 from London, going to £400+ perhaps? Luckily Dad just got his next TR SE approved. The next trip after that may be more for the Visa, than the taxes on the award flights 

By the time I wake up in the UK tomorrow they, may have spilled the beans by then .....

The Elite to Privilege rises may have started the trend.

On 2/24/2024 at 3:09 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

Then your teacher was a bit of a pillock....    I know Thai's in very high positions who return the Wai of waiting staff when walking into a nice restaurant etc....  because its the polite thing to do...  I watch my Father in Law behave the same way.

 

 

But they would not initiate the Wai to the staff, or someone obviously junior. 

I think that is best having separate accounts for your everyday, and other accounts for conversations with Authorities.

I was not aware of any  need to show every transaction.

I agree with your sentiment of not wanting to give someone your entire irrelevant to subject in hand, details. 

Though in the UK I'm trying to arrange the UK end to have two silo accounts that could potentially be involved in a future tax discussion.  Keeping most daily UK transactions separate, even just from the point of view of less pages to look at.

I thought it was just either regular transfers in or balance that they wanted to confirm, to demonstrate they  meet the appropriate  threshold....(?)

I am perhaps sometimes unsure of the the other person being of senior years and / or their relative rank or status, so initiate a Wai infrequently, unless quite sure. I  always try to acknowledge, but this often does not come naturally as a reflex.

The state pension is number full years, divided by 35 (but a minimum of 10 years to get anything) Then there is the change in 2016 to the new state pension. 

If you had been contracted out even more complicated. They tell me I will need to have a total of 46 years NI to get the full new state pension!.  

So all sorts of speculation how it is 140. 

I dint think his wife will get any of the state pension, was it not second / additional state pension that could be inherited?

Private pensions should have the wife nominated under the pension scheme, and provide proof of her age perhaps. Of course the trustees have discretion, but normally 99% just follow the pensioners wishes. 

But they would give it to the wife and kids, rather than a Mae noi of two weeks. Most private scheme rules recognise partners outside marraige now.