UKresonant

10 hours ago, MangoKorat said:

@Mike Lister

 

Mike, could you pass comment on this please?

 

I understand that when applying for a 12 month extension on stay, for example based on marriage to a Thai national, an applicant either has to provide evidence of having 400,000 baht in a Thai bank account or a having a monthly income of not less than 40,000 baht per month.

 

Further, my understanding is that if using the income method and your embassy is one of those that will certify an income from abroad, you have to provide evidence of 12 months remittances.  Therefore, for someone just arriving in the country and applying for a 12 month extension based on marriage, for their first year they would have no option but to put 400,000 in a Thai bank account then collect evidence of income over the next 12 months for the next application.

 

Could that not lead to an assessable amount in the first year of 880,000 Thai baht (obviously depending on timing)? If so, Is there any way of avoiding that - such as sending the 400,000 back to your home country once the required amount of time (I believe 2 months) had passed? Could that be remitted then deducted or would it always remain income?

May I comment...

If your not currently Thai Tax resident, timing is everything, keep under the 179 days, for the initial year calendar year. 

If you have your Thai bank account you could start the 40k / month before arrival?

You can have the 90 day extended by 60 days, giving you about time for 4 months transfers.

(Wife could pop some money in the account, used to be only retirement extn that need funds from abroad..not sure.)

12 x 40k need for nationals of embassies that DO NOT provide income letters, e.g.. Australia,  UK, USA..(maybe others)...they fell out and went in the huff back about 2017 ish, IO wanted those to legally certify income, they said 'cannot' thankfully they did  not continue to put many other nationalities under that ultimatum. The 40k/ month was introduced. 

[So being a UK person I need 50k /  month gross + transfer charges to prove 40k month. , but income method is the way I would want to do it, if ever in that situation ]

6 hours ago, hcvc said:

Are funds derived from savings and remitted to Thailand considered taxable income?

The in C are not taxable but if interest arising  1st 2024 is comingled a smal.bit may be taxable.

If the interest from those savings were mandated to be paid to a different account should be pure non taxable. ( Provided you don't add to them after 1st Jan 2024 or add  only in years when you are not Thai Tax resident.....

10 hours ago, Issanraider said:

Firstly I apologise if this topic is covered previously but I have trawled through and cannot find it.

I lived in Thailand from the years 2005 to 2012 when I returned to the UK to look after my father who passed away a couple of years ago.

I originally had a work permit as I was working for a Thai law firm and after the job finished I had an extension of stay based on marriage with the required funds in my Siam Commercial Bank account which I have had for over 20 years.

Unforunately for reasons that I will not go into, my wife divorced me without my knowledge as we lost contact during my return to the UK as I was here for much longer than I anticipated.

We were reconciled in 2019 and I have been making regular trips to see her since Covid restrictions were lifted.

We have not remarried.

I now wish to return to live in Thailand but until I have obtained the proceeds of the sale of my house which is currently going through, I do not have the required 800k baht in my SCB account.

I will be able to transfer it on completion of the sale but I want to get a non immigrant O visa here which will give me 90 days in Thailand during which time the 800k baht will be sitting in my account in readiness for the application for retirement extension of stay.

However upon researching the procedure here it seems that I have to have either proof of marriage with 400k baht, or 800k baht already deposited.

Is there any way I can come to Thailand on a 30 day visa on arrival and then apply for a Non Immigrant O whilst in Thailand or do I have to deposit the money in SCB first and kick my heeels around in the UK for 3 months before I come over.

I will be living in Khon Kaen and will have proof of residency.

A friend who lives in Thailand has suggested that I just come over on the 30 day visa on arrival and rely on the services of an agent but I would rather pursue then official line of application if possible.

I would appreciate any help you could give me on this dilemma

Many thanks

 

If you apply for a non-O single entry e-visa based on retirement from London you will have 90days from date of grant to enter Thailand and then 90 days from date of entry, to do the extension of stay.

Easiest option, you can pick your moment, perhaps sending some funds just before you fly out?

3 hours ago, kevinsan said:

Just read the 2023 forms and rates. I'm a bit high.

 

Single with exemption like most retirees without government pension:

65k x 12 = 780,000. 780,000 - 150,000 exemption = 630,000. Between 500k and 750k the tax rate is 12,500 plus 15% tax on amount over 500k. 630,000 - 500,000 = 130,000. 130,000 x .15 = 19,500. So simple tax  would be 12,500 + 19,500 = 32,000.

 

Single without exemption:

780,000. Between 750k and 1m tax rate is 65,000 plus 20% on income over 750k. Same math as above gives a tax rate of 65,000 + 6000 = 71,000.

 

Just a cursory read. Obviously other income streams are taxed at different rates. Clarification by mid-June 2024 would be nice.

If funds are from pre-taxed overseas assessable income, what are you stating on the form?

Gross 

or 

Net  remitted?

38 minutes ago, Dogmatix said:

Re the view that remittances generated by use of foreign credit card payments being not remittance of income but short term loans advanced by the credit card provider.  I can see the logic to that but doubt it would hold up in the tax court.  It certainly wouldn't apply to direct debit cards or ATM withdrawals direct from a bank account. I think a loan would need a specific loan agreement and to come in as a lump some, not in dribs and drabs as the taxpayer makes his purchases. 

 

Theoretically you could pay off your credit card with tax exempt pre-2024 income but I think that all remittances via foreign credit card, debit card or ATM withdrawal are going to be deemed assessable, is self assessed or, if the RD somehow finds out about them. 

In country spending I think is quite clear, however booking and  paying flights with a CC outwith Thailand, I would struggle with the concept of  tax reach extending past the airport door,  (At an extreme what proportion of an international flight would be in Thai Airspace).

Recently had my pension indexations, and one of my 'not taxed in Thailand' pensions gives me 205 THB (after tax) a day now to remit!  

6 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

There's a big difference. When you transmit funds from your bank using SWIFT or even ATM withdrawals with your debit card, those come directly out of your bank account, it's your monies. When you make a CC purchase, the foreign CC company is sending their money to cover your purchases. You have a line of credit that you can draw on which is a loan, then you pay them back afterwards. That issue is on the "issues list" and is not resolved yet.

So that would work perhaps if you spend on the CC in Dec whilst resident in TH, but did not pay the bill using overseas funds until Jan in the next year, which will be a non resident year.  I suppose the credit card bill could be paid from pre2024 savings, or not taxed in Thailand funds/income, would be fine..

2 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

I don't doubt that the Thai RD person actually said that about CC purchases, but It needs to be written in their rules, guidelines or regulations, and not just coming from this one person's opinion at a video sit-down. This gets back to whether CC purchases for Big Macs need to be included on your tax returns or not. It needs to be kept on the issues list until something in writing comes from the TRD. It is not appropriate to take one person's word as the rule of law, especially if they cannot back it up with something in writing from their own TRD agency.

But I don't think SWIFT, or Wise or Rev, WU, feature in the RD's rules, why would CCs? It is just another way of transmitting the funds.

On 5/18/2024 at 10:48 AM, PJ71 said:

This sounds like the most sensible option.

 

What's the calendar year, 1st Jan - 31st Dec?

A snow bird pattern of 179 days within Oct, Nov, Dec _Jan, Feb, March, could be effective. only book your Oct-Dec, once you know how many days you consumed Jan-March. Can't exceed then probably.

(Northern hemisphere idea).

One of family does 3 x 59 days but with one segment in December that can take minor adjustments for 179 days in calendar year. (Reminds me, still  to do a tracking speadsheet for that).

1 hour ago, RupertIII said:

My wife contacted the lawyer again but not heard back, I think this may have got confused in translation. My wife called the tax office who told her that as it was rec'd, but not remitted to Thailand, some years back would not be taxable but if remitted at any time would require documented proof of inheritance which would make sense although, as with much of this, confusion still seems to reign. The tax office did say that gains/profit made would be taxable if remitted contrary to what is stated on their website, in both English and Thai. My suggestion would be that by income they mean to refer to an inherited annuity or similar. 

Yes that sounds more like it.

Original remains classified as inheritance, and predetermined items transferred.

Taxable arising / income from whatever reference point then created. Have to watch for zero starting value for gains on stocks?

15 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

I think it's been shown yet again that this thread is too long and unwieldy to be of real value, we've reached 300 pages so new commers can't find their way through a quagmire of posts to find much that's useful.

 

My proposal is that we start four or five new threads on specific aspects that we know should be discussed and this one is closed. I appreciate this thread holds sentimental value for some but let's be realistic, it's time has passed. Legal Strategies to Reduce Thai Tax is already up and running, we might start others topics we can agree on......what say you?

Yea

1 hour ago, Lorry said:

Thx for this. 

How about bringing USD cash into Thailand,  e.g. in December, but exchanging it after the tourist season,  when the rate is often better.

In your opinion,  in which year has this money been remitted to Thailand?

I guess in December,  when you and the money physically arrived? 

If you bring it in Dec, and change it in Jan, no way to prove you brought it in Dec?  Declared at Airport if large amount?

Did anyone get a steer on the inheritance question someone posted a few pages ago. Their Lawyer was saying inheritance was 100m THB or less no tax if brought in and remitted same tax year, but may be taxed if remitted in latertax years.

Surely it would not be taxed, it would be savings? It's not income, how would it change Categories (according to the lawyers thoughts.

?

5 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

No, we always needed to care about it but didn't realize that we did.

Dad has been doing <180 days for a couple of decades now! (Excepting a couple of flight shedule changes maybe, but all from savings anyway, and UK resident under DTA article 4) 

9 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

I meant the overseas bank, the obe who issued the credit card.

I may have picked it up wrong, but the credit card issuing company, bank or not, won't report, but the bank account you pay the credit card with will be CRS applicable....perhaps.

7 hours ago, CharlesHolzhauer said:

This maybe true for some individuals considering that, contrary to common belief, Thailand is not a retirement destination per se. That's why they don't and never have issued a retirement visa. .

That's about it for the O & OA Visas, it is a visa given because you are retired, and they permit a slightly longer stay., and have some money to spend. Renewal every year is by custom and practice, 

If anyone asks in the UK, is it a good place to retire, I respond, NO, it is however a wonderful place to spend a lot of your retired time.

Now the the.response.is to spend a good  amount  of you retired time not exceeding 179 Days unless you very careful.

I think the divergence of visa title compared with custom and practice, was pre-2017 ish. 

But if you don't have a Thai ID card, always have the capability to become mobile, should adverse custom and practice arise.

5 hours ago, RupertIII said:

I have been under the understanding that there is no tax liability on inheritance from parents up to 100m THB., nor is there any tax on income derived from inheritance, up to certain limits, under Section 42 Para. [10].

 

My wife has today been speaking with our Thai lawyer who has advised that this is only the case if the inheritance was remitted to Thailand in the year it was received and if not then tax will be due as when all or any of the monies are remitted into Thailand.

 

Is anyone able to confirm this one way or the other? 

Did the lawyer elaborate on what they would anticipate it would be taxed as, if not brought in same year.

I could anticipate any interest, Divs or the like being taxed, which were derived from the inheritance principle.  But seems a bit curious about the principle inherited.

Not knowledgeable enough to confirm anything unfortunately.

11 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

 

Interesting you're 30% int equ/70% MA

 

I'm 35% int equ/35% trackers and 22% bonds +8% cash.

 

A similar end result, just a different way to get there.

 

Are you using VG Life for your MA's? I unloaded BNY Melon Balanced which was making an OK return but it was never going to generate more than  a 50% return over 5 years and I felt I could do better with the same risk.

Did a quick breakdown of my 3 most significant portfolios, machine said (oh, almost no trackers in that lot);-

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

 

Interesting you're 30% int equ/70% MA

 

I'm 35% int equ/35% trackers and 22% bonds +8% cash.

 

A similar end result, just a different way to get there.

 

Are you using VG Life for your MA's? I unloaded BNY Melon Balanced which was making an OK return but it was never going to generate more than  a 50% return over 5 years and I felt I could do better with the same risk.

The 70MA/ 30intEq were the disposal funds for the switch to equal the linker fund buy...

Will have to tally up my overall allocation after a few changes...

1 hour ago, Mike Lister said:

Can I ask which linkers fund you're using?

 

I see Powell just spoke and has reinforced his higher for longer matra, I think he's preparing everyone for no rate cuts this year. US CPI figures due Wednesday AM US time, maybe some clues there perhaps.

It's a standard life pension fund S4, so will be ABRDN Essentially.

On 5/11/2024 at 11:49 PM, Mike Lister said:

I'm really struggling with bonds, I've lost my way, maybe somebody more knowledgeable can assist?

 

I hold up to 25% of my investment portfolio in bonds as a diversifier and for some protected income. I hold Vanguards Global Bond Index which comprises investment grade,  longer (7 yr) dated government (65%) and corporates. The yield is poor at around 3% but when US rates begin to fall their value will increase. These bonds are mostly negatively correlated to equites.

 

I also hold a strategic bond fund that yields around 7% and contains very little junk, the average rating is BBB and duration is 6....this is positively corelated but provides income. 

 

My question is, what else should  I be holding?

 

Government bonds are safer than corporates but the yield is lower plus corporates are positively corelated to equities. Short dated bond funds yield more than long dated bonds because the yield curve is inverted. US rates are likely to start to reduce before the end of the year and UK rates before then.

 

A short dated (1-3 yrs) government bond index looks interesting but is subject to interest rate risk at some point. This provides reasonable yield and negative correlation.

 

A global government bond index appeals, possibly a global corporates bond index also for income but that risks correlation.

 

Argh! Advice needed, please.

 

 

 

 

 

No technical advice, but I've just switched about 7K back into UK indexed linked bonds (fund) within a SIPP drawdown from 70% MA / 30% international equity.

Had some periods of great performance from linkers in the past. (Decade ago perhaps) 

Fund is about minus 32% over 3 years, they seem to be close to a floor. Either side of a flatline for many months.

MA fund was doing very little, not even poor. 

Slight interest rate reductions, and Geo situation may at least prevoke some performance. Number on the slot machine at 1, higher or lower?

On 5/6/2024 at 2:39 AM, Mike Lister said:

The second is Royal London Select which has returned over 24% per year and has far exceeded the benchmark.

Great fund but they discontinued my trickle charge level monthly savings within a SIPP after about  5 months, they wanted to cap the fund size or something, just going to leave it as high performance small change rattling  about in that SIPP

1 hour ago, Dogmatix said:

n the podcast about the UK DTA the expert said you would have to declare the gross pre-tax UK taxed income on your Thai tax return and claim the tax credit. This is clearly wrong because Thailand is taxing on a remittance basis. So why would you declare gross UK income to the RD?  If you do that they will tax the gross amount and you will pay Thai tax on the UK tax paid before getting a tax credit. I would think you should declare on the amount remitted to Thailand net of UK tax and claim the tax credit against that. The expert is obviously

I was under the impression that you needed the total Gross and the total tax deducted, which would then you would proportion pro-rata for the tax credit relief, per pound remitted, if not 100%. "to avoid double relief' vie Personal allowances. The preferred 'home contry tax.authority cert would show it all anyway perhaps.

But then there would be the complication that part of that is non.taxable in Thailand

So it certainly it should not all go on.the filing to Thai RD but that which does, should havr 'x' p in the pound, credit relief available.

Where is That new filing form that had been suggested was to be issued by THRD. It would give some clues to what is.possible to be expressed. 

I wonder how TH RD would cope with a UK  purchased annuity, as depending on age say 70% is a return of capital, and only the 30% is assessable.

Perhaps a way of defining the principle before becoming TH Tax resident.

So of 65000THB per month 40.5k savings and say 19.5k of pre-determined savings interest. ( under allowance + 150k almost )

Just a though....don't know an actual proportion and not the most efficient, but simple maybe.

The upstairs economy is good, 2019 I think I last was in that area. disembarked, just back downstairs and through economy. These some of these seats upstairs were priced at about £70/3000 baht on someones recent booking. Not a problem if you have the Gold Tier PC.

51 minutes ago, Scouse123 said:

others say you must go down the rear staircase and it is a slow process.

Yes

Immigration queue could be large anyway if there is another 380 or a few 777's arriving 10-20 mins ahead of your flight.

Used the front cabin, but no specific seat. It did feel that the Qatar front cabin was slightly more crowded in comparison with the Emirates front lower cabin, but my comparison is well dated now. Center of forward cabin outboard aisle seats do me fine on Qatar.

Been a Qatar Loyalist since they started flying out of EDI, but apparently Emirates are coming back later in the year from EDI. My Silver card just lapsed 🤨

Flip a coin 😀