13 hours ago, OJAS said:

 

This does, however, strike me as an issue of potential interest to those in receipt of UK company pensions in particular, the more so if these pensions are significant in financial terms and/or they are also in receipt of the UK State Pension*. As I understand the present position, HMRC would only allow taxation relief equal to the amount of tax paid (at lower rates in most cases) to the RD here.

 

I strongly suspect that this could, in practice, mean UK company pensioners having to file tax returns with HMRC for the first time ever in most cases, as well as with the RD here. Which would mean them having to enlist the services of a commercial software supplier if filing to HMRC online since they are UK tax non-residents. What with the differing tax years (6/4/Y1 to 5/4/Y2 in the case of HMRC and 1/1/Y1 to 31/12/Y1 in the case of the RD), this could all turn out to be a bureaucratic nightmare in their case!

 

* @billd766 - looks like you might come under this heading.

 

Reading UK HMRC form "DT-individual" in conjunction with the Digest of Double Taxation Treaties (2018). Getting any relief from the UK end seems unlikely perhaps.

Government pension - only if Thai national and resident in Thailand (N&R). Other Pensions "No Relief"

2 hours ago, Mike Lister said:

Assessable income in Thailand is any income that was remitted to Thailand and was earned after 1 January 2024

.......whilst tax resident in Thailand (?) re 162/2566....

(Just in case anyone is out on a 8month contract or back home to re-charge the financial batteries, have spoken to some doing that, on on flights home over the years)

18 hours ago, Negita43 said:

Also stocks held in an "ISA Wrapper" in the UK are free of all UK taxes (Capital gains and dividend) but if they are remitted to Thailand (even if held before 2024) do they become taxable in Thailand - It's a minefield

I have to agree about the ISA I can see dividends paid out of the tax free ISA wrapper could be taxed as normal dividends, but no idea on calculating capital gains from any disposal out of the ISA if tax resident in Thailand. 

The Thai Tax system is

still usefully allowing remittance basis. So to some extent the amount being taxed, and what you remit can be controlled. 

The amount Thai tax is a bit variable compared with the UK tax, whether it is more more less, with various factors especially if above or below 65 years of age. It seems always less than the UK Income Tax once over circa 2 million Baht p.a. 

Looking if it were someone going to the UK , you only get 7 years of remittance basis , then it becomes unworkabley expensive for mortals.

The Gov opposition party (due to this years election) are are actually wanting  the remittance basis to be cancelled. With no apparent thought on how repulsive and inward looking, that will make the UK appear for companies may wish to go  with inward investment, and find essential personel, may not wish to go. 

This years Thai tax move will have a component of reduced spend and small VAT offset probably, for folk with mostly foreign income.  Details and a practicle mechanism yet to be seen of course....

On 1/24/2024 at 3:53 PM, CrossBones said:

Here is another scenario

 

I live in Thailand. I am tax resident

 

I transfer money from my offshore account to someone else in Thailand, who is also a Thai tax resident.

 

According to the above comment I have to pay tax on any money i sent into Thailand.

 

And the other person I sent money to - they also received (my) money form overseas

 

Should we both, then, pay tax on the (same) amount?

 

Doesnt make any sense.

 

 

Here is an extract from the UK remittance pages, I've not yet found the equivalent Thai RD page, but suspect it may be somewhat similar, in respect to you question.....

"...Most remittances to the UK will be under the general rules but there are additional rules under which your foreign income and gains may be remitted to the UK. For example, you gift some of your foreign income or gains or something deriving from them to a person other than a relevant person - a gift recipient. It’s still possible for there to be a remittance of your foreign income or gains if the gift is used in such a way that it benefits a relevant person.

Your money or property does not have to be physically imported from overseas for a remittance to occur. For example, it could be money you receive in the UK from another UK resident, in return for money or assets representing your foreign income and gains transferred to them abroad.

1.3 Relevant person
A relevant person is:

the individual themselves, that’s, the person to whom the foreign income and gains belong
the individual’s spouse or civil partner, or people living together as if they’re spouses or civil partners
the individual’s children or grandchildren under 18 years of age (this includes children or grandchildren of their spouse or civil partners).....

2 minutes ago, Celsius said:

if by law you are not allowed to work on retirement visa then what law says you are supposed to pay tax?

 

5th world nonsense right there and some of you are suggesting getting a tax number 

 

don't forget to bend over during your 90 day report to. during your visa extension please do say take my money for all the rights and privileges I have in Thailand 

 

you people are pathetic

Why, thank you!

It is disappointing that people don't pay attention to there home country's attitude to the subject, as Thailand cribbing across some of their tax regime, just highlights how aggressive they are. They could copy more and it would be much worse!

Governmental organisations have a high motivation to grab more tax so it may be spent inefficiently (already spent  with poor value for money more like). No one has a feeling about the subject, until a mirror suddenly appears.

4 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

I don't consider myself living in Thailand, just an extended stay. 

 That's the way I always look it as well when I've been there (and I've never done an extension yet )

That's the only Visa options available, other than actual custom and practice.

8 minutes ago, redwood1 said:

I will eat crow the day the Russians, the Indians, the Chinese, Cambodians etc ...Start lining up to pay taxes....Any tax.....

 

Its just not going to happen....

Are there many in those groups that seek a long term continuity of relationship with Thailand , like retired / married groupings, even if they are not in Thailand continuously?

If they don't have a long term inclinations in Thailand, you are most probably correct and their posture may also reflect their home country tax and general environment, as for many other nationality groups. However North America and Europe are highly regulated tax environments, which could account for some variance in attitude. There are also non Nationality specific attitudes, not recognising how Thailand has developed and is developing fast  in at least some, if not most  ministerial jurisdictions.  Not looking down and perhaps looking up slightly soon may become appropriate...A common interface struggles with their  general subject situation having been defined 45 years in the past, however in other control aspects it may be looked on from overseas with envy.

1 hour ago, Gknrd said:

You would be surprised at the people that have saved all their lives that don't know a thing about taxes. Capital gains taxes alone in Thailand will bring in billions in taxes from stupid westerners. The Thai's know how this will play out, the same as the 800K rule change for the rich western countries. That showed them that westerners will do anything for pussy period.

It's not rocket science. They will push it as far as they can. I would to if I were in charge. It's a windfall, free money.

Depends how short term their outlook is, they have very minutely  damaged the brand again perhaps, they have a high confidence in the product,  which initially is great pitch, with apparently not much complexity to new customers. unless your have a prior experience comparator quite  some years in the past.

I worry about new customers, that have done large assessable in year transactions in preparation for coming over, arriving before mid-July and get taken to the cleaners the following January... 

4 hours ago, bugger bognor said:

Where's the enforcement? when have the Thai government said expats retirees have got to get a Tax number by law and submit accounts the answer is they haven't!  Pray tell me has Thailand started training thousands of new staff to understand all the tax rules in the dual tax treaty countries and tax thresholds ready for idiots queuing up voluntarily with boxes of statements and receipts and accounts to decipher in 2025 are they ready for 350000 thousand expats accounts to be submitted has any government department declared you will need to do anything  by law absolutely not!! if your stupid enough to volunteer your accounts and pay any tax here thats your own utter stupidity.

You must be living in a parallel universe...

I won't be likely to be immediately affected by this change of posture by Thai RD , watching from afar in safe mode, with popcorn. 

• I normally put a lottery ticket on an almost regular basis every month, in case my lucky number comes up! It's very easy and straight forward to by a ticket currently. If it were a very convoluted process, involving proof of Fx to buy the ticket and had to get it certified whilst the information involved in the transaction was quite obvious, In that case I might not put a ticket on, (or put  myself in the situation that it would become a rare an infrequent consideration to buy a ticket, unless someone wanted or needed me to).
• In a similar fashion if it is a straight forward process to file a tax return in future, to get a receipt for an inward remittance, that may potentially cause a threat of some possible liability or penalty, hanging around like a fart in an elevator, I perhaps would rather put the ticket on to stop my unlucky number coming up.    

Yes, I may be an idiot for putting a lottery on, but when I was there last summer in a period of 4 weeks, they twice yielded much more than a large grocery shop at central.......so not impossible odds (unlike the UK one has been **** for for quite a while now)

Good luck...

On 1/25/2024 at 4:59 AM, Swiss1960 said:

Yeah right... and we would like married people from the Schengen countries to have the same stay visas (2/5/unlimited) and no 90d Reports as Thais living in Europe and married to Europeans.

 

Reciprocity the key word...

I was thinking more of a 10 year multi 180 day entry Visitors visa like The Thai's can get for the UK, (no 90 day reporting or TM30 would be nice.)

Over and above the Thai requirements, might you be traveling to Europe on Holiday at any point.....

If you are planning to travel to an EU country (except Ireland), or Switzerland, Norway, Iceland, Liechtenstein, Andorra, Monaco, San Marino or Vatican City, follow the Schengen area passport requirements. Your passport must be: issued less than 10 years before the date you enter the country (check the 'date of issue')

I got nearly the maximum add on time when I last renewed but will have to renew more than a year and a half early to be on the safe side! (had a short stay land side at CDG  once due to an extended time of a flight connection)

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/france/entry-requirements

Always carried the Son's Birth Cert Thai & English, (as suggested when I asked once at BKK when departing)

Had Mum write a sentence on the Flight booking in English  sayings agreed with the trip, and with her phone number.

Haven't used the local office Amphur letter /doc. At least 3 round trips to UK without Mum, not asked for any proof. But all flight bookings were made months in advance, and logged on Airline systems as Family Companion traveller.

Now over 16 so would not.anticipate any problems going forward.

22 hours ago, BKKKevin said:

I'm in the same situation... I left during covid and will return in summer... My Kasikorn accounts are unaccessable from  their website... Can you elaborate on what you had to do to reactivate?... Thanks

If you left more than say 3000 baht in the account(s) when you left, send a 1000 baht to the account using one of the "free" Fx services to make a transaction on the account. Go into a main branch to get a new ATM card as soon as your back. (think ahead if they ask for a Thai address (no proof needed probably)

If you just left a couple of hundred baht, the account likely may be toast.

Best keep accounts open if you can, I would leave approx. 4000 baht in each Thai Baht savings account + any fees for an active ATM etc, just top it up with a 1000baht every year. (Apart from FCD accounts where the typical minimum to avoid disintegration fees may be  $1000 equivalent (+ATM card fees). Avoid the "do you have a work permit?" questions if you need them in future.

45 minutes ago, Mike Lister said:

Thai health insurance is operated under very different rules to those you are used to in the West, they are managed under Thai rules, not Internationally accepted rules. Thai policies can be cancelled without cause and premiums can be increased based on the extent to which the individual claimed against the policy, by up to 25% per year. In addition, it is not uncommon for new exclusions to be added to individual policies, once the insured has made a claim that involved a certain aspect of health. These differences have been well documented over the years on this forum, moderator Sheryl is more familiar with all the details and differences.

I see the health insurance issue being a major blocker for future options / time in Thailand.

That the mandatory health insurance that is unlikely to provide actual cover is more than disappointing. Noting the Waiting period for a 90 day policy mentioned above is perhaps 120days and a 12 month policy perhaps is perhaps 180day / 6 months . I tried to get a Thai policy back in 2018 as a supplement to a quality 92 Day per trip, unlimited trips Travel insurance. The broker of a major provider said he could not Honestly sell me the policy under consideration that I would maybe slightly below or above the 180 day of 12 months, required to be in Thailand to have actual cover (that's when I was using a non-O ME).  New to Thailand O-A Visa holders may think they are covered by the insurance and get a nasty shock if attempting to claim .

Thailand seems to continually become incrementally less attractive via detail changes since the end of 2017. But if the customers keep wanting the product....

I had a quick skim over Qatar mandatory flat insurance, that gives a basic cover, that can be supplemented by private insurance provision, a nicer concept I think/ 

Sounds like another visa option to score of the list, if this covid-era requirement  gets reintroduced at other locations, as I would be only using it for the 90 days not extending, (due to unavailability of  non-O ME again)

6 hours ago, CrossBones said:

Here is another scenario

 

I live in Thailand. I am tax resident

 

I transfer money from my offshore account to someone else in Thailand, who is also a Thai tax resident.

 

According to the above comment I have to pay tax on any money i sent into Thailand.

 

And the other person I sent money to - they also received (my) money form overseas

 

Should we both, then, pay tax on the (same) amount?

 

Doesnt make any sense.

 

 

Here is an extract from the UK remittance pages, I've not yet found the equivalent Thai RD page, but suspect it may be somewhat similar, in respect to you question.....

"...Most remittances to the UK will be under the general rules but there are additional rules under which your foreign income and gains may be remitted to the UK. For example, you gift some of your foreign income or gains or something deriving from them to a person other than a relevant person - a gift recipient. It’s still possible for there to be a remittance of your foreign income or gains if the gift is used in such a way that it benefits a relevant person.

Your money or property does not have to be physically imported from overseas for a remittance to occur. For example, it could be money you receive in the UK from another UK resident, in return for money or assets representing your foreign income and gains transferred to them abroad.

1.3 Relevant person
A relevant person is:

the individual themselves, that’s, the person to whom the foreign income and gains belong
the individual’s spouse or civil partner, or people living together as if they’re spouses or civil partners
the individual’s children or grandchildren under 18 years of age (this includes children or grandchildren of their spouse or civil partners).....

34 minutes ago, CrossBones said:

What happens if i...

 

a) Purchase a new car from a dealer and pay them directly from my overseas account.

 

This is not my income, its is their income.

 

b) I purchase a new condo off a developer. I pay them directly from overseas.

 

The money hasnt touched my account, in either case.

 

Any ideas?

a) a gift to your wife perhaps, is the car under 20m ? Don't know!

b) I was thinking that the scrutiny of the inbound funds was part of the transaction to purchase a foreign owned Condo. Doubtful on that one

8 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

What wrong with the statement regarding the LTR visa? Has RD. 743 been repealed? 

No it's still in place...

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxv3eDJmpwbaMv8y0dCuqfbA5dVeb2Fz3w?si=gBWX09_NoYHVIVUO

Just now, Mike Lister said:

Exactly, the tax system already exists, it's in service and is used by millions. The one simple rule change is the only thing that new yet many posters look at it as if an entire new expat tax system is being rolled out but will be stopped in its tracks before D-Day.......it isn't those things at all.

I quite like this short mention on youtube of the Tax change "Tax Increases You Will NOT Like in 2024" No2 on his sequence..

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxFbvSFYfMPxlsFHlEldEudYJaCJR0eqej?si=LB7TLNTBdZti1GKb

Just now, Danderman123 said:

if there is still no enforcement planned, then expats will continue to ignore it.

Probably, but that is on their own responsibility and liability.  (maybe another article for the news section later)

I hope that the ones that would not be inclined to ignore it, but at least prepare for it, will become generally aware of the possibilities. Especially potential new arrivals planning

Such as avoiding being in Thailand for more than a cumulative 179 days (for any second) in the year they are doing large remittances, perhaps. (leap year, have to be out an extra day this year). Not a new precaution to do so...

Just now, Danderman123 said:

 

Minimum wages are revised in Thailand with effect from 01 January 2024. The minimum wage in Bangkok has increased from THB353. 00 THB363. 00 per day

6days x 363 x 52weeks = 113256THB  (not them)

The medium fish probably  using online or bank trading platforms, for traceable overseas  transactions, (part of the focus of the change), low hanging fruit. (easy)

Perhaps knowing that Expats are more likely to complain they shall provide an expedited service, for such.

Just now, Danderman123 said:

This is a very widely held opinion.

 

Outside of this forum, I haven't seen many people who believe that this tax scheme will be implemented.

The tax scheme is already in place, but now income from previous year(s) must now be considered as income rather than savings, from 1st Jan 2024 going forward.

It has been mentioned that they are perhaps to issue a new tax filing form, for the small minority  that remit pre-taxed  overseas income, to allow listing of their taxes paid overseas, as a credit against the Thai Tax computation (where relevant).

Perhaps some administrative procedures need to be amended and implemented but nothing much.

I suppose there could be a legal challenge perhaps, that may form an opinion. 

Just now, Merrill said:

Thailand should be happy to have the money coming in.

Thailand is most likely very happy the money is coming in, but it is absolutely up to Thailand to decide what they are and are not happy about.

Happy.

15 minutes ago, karl2007 said:

I have a tax ID card and I pay local taxes that get deducted from my salary. I have a work permit that my company has issued for me and I have been working for the same company for over 3 years. Would this be enough

Can only say most likely, better enquire with your IO, should be fine  it's getting deposited in a Thai Bank and revenue department recognise it, what more could they ask for! With Thai based earnings, they even allowed it to be an average of 40K/month in the past. (They may ask for your current tax filing for the 2023 year?)