ayayay

I am going to play devils advocate with your assertion of why they called farang instead of table 6, could be that there was one waitress that was happy to serve you for what ever reason, or it could be that most of them didn't want to.

Why should it matter what skin color you have?

All at least fairly developed countries, and then Italy?? They might as well include Greece, Turkey or Russia, if Italy is included.

Sweden and Holland should have been included.

but they like the Italian restaurants... I haven't seen any Swedish restaurants while I have been here or Dutch...

I take it you have never been to Phuket? Every other restaurant is a Swedish restaurant.

All at least fairly developed countries, and then Italy?? They might as well include Greece, Turkey or Russia, if Italy is included.

Sweden and Holland should have been included.

I actually find the word 'farang' quite convenient when used in the context of:

Well what did you expect -- I'm just some d-mn farang?

Well, many of us like to be the dancing monkey, "the crazy farang", or the just the "farang".

I loved it at first, as I felt superior to them, it did not bother me at all, it was all innocent and fun, I thought.

But after a few years, when I see discrimination, and many of us being ripped off by our extended thai family (no, not me personally, but I have seen it enough), some foreigners being treated very badly, I can not help but see the connection where Thais tend to dehumanize us by seeing us as "farang". We are first and foremost "white skin", and only secondly, an individual, with an identity.

How do you get the idea that Farang is a racist word? Have you ever not heard a student talking, "Next is Ajarn Farngs class". Even Thai teacher's refer to foreigners as Ajarn Farangs.

Do you expect the Thai's call you, "Hey, look at that white man(Kon Kaao) walking in his stupid shorts" or whatever. It's just a word to describe foreigners. Because usually it's hard to tell the nationality. It CAN be used offensively such as, AI FARANG!! or just combining it with other offensive words. If it's so easy to tell if you're German, Australian, American, or whatever, I think people will call you, " Hey, look at that American" just as the Farangs call, The Thais, The Chinese or Asian.

There is a HUGE difference.

1. If I, for example, does not know the person, and see him from afar, most of the time, I do not need to point out if he is black, yellow, white or whatever, I usually say, "that person over there", or when really necessary to identify a specific person, I would say he was white, asian, or whatever, but usually, "that person", "that american", "that foreigner" is good enough. I know most people from the west would do the same.

2. For Thai people, "farang" is not only a casual way of describing us, it is in fact the same thing as objectifying us, by constantly being aware of the color of our skin. They will never let go of the fact that we are first and foremost white skinned. We on the other hand, if we get to knkow a person very well, we will very soon forget if he is Yellow, black or White. Also, nationality will mean less and less, the more we get to know the person. The person becomes more human, and less of an object.

Not so for Thais, a "farang" is something totally different. And no matter how much you know them, you are still first and foremost an object, "a white skin". Sure we have white skin, and we can be proud of that, but it can, and will many times become a problem because they, as someone above mentioned, is a way of dehumanizing us. It is then also easier to discriminate us, rip us off etc...

Farang , simply means foriegner, that is no racist term in itself, but the manner and tone in which it is used can be offensive, in my opinion. To use and old phrase, its not what you say its the way you say it.

Academics -

Dehumanizing the enemy - Making individuals from the opposing nation, from a different ethnic group, or those who support the opposing viewpoint appear to be less human, worthless, or immoral, through stereotyping and by assigning that group a non-human name. The military finds dehumanizing makes it easier for soldiers to kill the enemy. Terms like kraut for a German; frog for the French; Chink for Chinese, Slope Head or Gook for the Southeast Asian all serve to dehumanize a group of people by removing the element of national identity or origin ................... I think we can add farang to the list.

Spot on!

As I said, the biggest problem is, many of us enjoy being called "farang", and does not see the problem with it.

How are Thais ever gonna take the hint, when we (not me personally)in fact enjoy being their dancing monkey?

Yes, Thai people are extremely racist.

The biggest problem is, that many of us, enjoy playing the role of the "crazy farang", the dancing monkey.

I know, I used to enjoy it myself, I constantly called myself "farang", and especially around Thais, I thought it was all fun.

Now, many years later, I understand, it is just stupid to call ourselves "farang" as it is indeed racist.

How are Thais ever gonna learn, if even we, ourselves call ourselves "farang"!?

It is just ignorant and stupid.

7 pages of the usual "hang 'em high" ranting. But on the same day the mother (murderer) of baby P was released from jail in the UK after serving not even 5 years of what started out as a life sentence. And no one here seems to have a word to say about that, in spite of the crime appearing to be much worse than this one.

There are several reasons for that. But one main reason is that we tend to judge guys much harder for crimes than females.

So even if a woman and a man commit the same type of crime, the man usually gets a higher prison sentence.

A number of posts which are French Bashing or a completely off-topic discussion about language have been deleted along with replies.

Stay on topic.

(cry) No, Scott why deleting French bashing...it would have changed a little from Thai bashing

I agree

Yes, the word "Farang" is racist, and biggest problem is, so many of us, happily and naively refer to ourselves as that as well. Many of us love to be the dancing monkey and receive the attention being the "crazy farang". And in the next sentence, somewhat amusing, complaining about us being victims of discrimination.

What Thai words would you prefer to be used by Thais to describe Caucasians when referring to them as a group in the 3rd person?

Caucasians?

Really?

Geez.

How about:

The gentleman at the counter.

The young woman at teller number three.

The lady at table four.

The blond man in the red shirt.

The customer waiting out front.

That man there, carrying the umbrella, needs a taxi.

The lady with red hair and two little girls needs a doctor.

The guest in room 301.

The folks who ordered the pizza.

The people at the counter, buying tickets for the ferry.

That really hot dude driving the Ducati, named Cool.

Our: customer; guest; patron; client; patient; visitor; foreigner; diner; passenger; contestant; tourist; border; lodger; buyer, etc, etc, etc ....

BUT, NO!

It's always:

Farang.

Farang.

Farang.

Farang.

Farang.

Farang.

Farang.

Farang.

Farang.

Farang.

Farang.

Farang.

Farang.

Farang.

Well, I think the word is perfectly fine....what you are getting at it a deeper problem, which is how people here see the world.

It's the difference between me being back in the US, seeing an Asian guy (a customer, for example) and thinking "wonder what this guy wants?" I would only really focus on the "Asian" part of it if he did something drastically different from what I expected or if there were language issues.

In Thailand (and, honestly.....the vast majority of Asia), people immediately set up the "other" wall--and not just with "falangs," but with other Asians as well.

My experience with other Asian countries is that, sure there is the "other" wall with white people to a CERTAIN degree, however, never EVER have I experienced any culture who are so extremely focused on pointing out the race/color than Thais.

In what other asian country will you, every other second, hear the word for "white person" in that language? And furthermore, the expats living there, happily calling themselves the same word??

Sure every language has its own term for white people, but it is not as huge as a concept in those countries, as it is in Thailand.

I do not know of anything similar in any other Asian country.

Here's another TV definition of Thai Apologist (recently seen on TV):

Westerner who contends, often vehemently and with name-calling, that the word faring can never be racist.

Anyone ever meet this person, in person?

Yes, the word "Farang" is racist, and biggest problem is, so many of us, happily and naively refer to ourselves as that as well. Many of us love to be the dancing monkey and receive the attention being the "crazy farang". And in the next sentence, somewhat amusing, complaining about us being victims of discrimination.

It depends what you mean by that, a person who finds reasons to defend Thais and Thai culture at all times. If so, no.

If it means, to view Thais and Thailand as objectively and neutral as possible, sometimes meaning, stand up, defend or explain certain aspects of Thai life when the Thai bashers goes too far, yes, I am one of them.

Thai bashers are, unfortunately the most common type of person. Especially here on Thaivisa.

Yes, it makes me realize how difficult it much be for some people to fit in in my home country, and knowing they have limited opportunity to return to their home country. And on top of that, constantly having to face "superior" people who looks down on them and tell them to "go home".

You should most likely not pay anything at all.

She is already old, has married many times before, and her parents and herself know this.

So if they demand a sin sot, they are probably trying to scam you.

Tell them politely, that she is already 40 years old, and married many times before. So you already know you should not pay anything.

Just go to Nana, it is more effective and you will save a lot of time

Let me start by saying this. I've been involved in 3 accidents and everytimes, i've been cleared of everything. I'll try to answer as best as I can and my apologize for the mistakes as my main language ain't English. Still, I'll take the time to answer to your questions and, in the eventuality it happens again, you'll know what to do.

There are things you did pretty well. The first one is that you haven't ran away from the scene. The second is that you know the Thai road safety code. The third good thing is that you have all the papers as required by the authority to drive in the kingdom.

There are 2 things you should have done not to be involved in the "farang is wrong" circle. The first one is to get a lawyer right before you and the insurance officer sign the papers at the police station to make sure that:

1- they wrote the report properly

2- the insurance officer wrote his repport properly

Insurances companies in Thailand have a bad reputation when it comes to pay for a car accident and this is caused by their wrong way to write their report. Exemple: they are going to write in Thai that you have for 20000 BAHT in damage on your vehicule but they are going to avoid writing that "it may cost more for unknown damages" the car accident may have caused, or, in the case the lady sue you, to pay for her damages. This said, this is one of the problem you may face pretty soon.

The second thing would have been to take evidence by yourself on the scene. You could have taken photos, videos and witness testifying about what happened over there. Usually, Thai people are not lying when the event just occured. They tend to lie more once they gossip about it with friends and family to make the farang looks "bad".

One more suggestion would be to install a dashcam. Don't forget that we are guests here and we need to do our own safety.

I'm lucky as I have a high rank policeman in my family who likes to teach me about the laws and how to do things in Thailand. I would tell you that it is not about not being welcome here, but all about money. Thais act this way towards Thais and so they act this way too towards foreigners. However, the difference is that Thai people are going to stick together to win over you while the foreigners living in Thailand don't care much about each other. That is the reason why we have such a hard time getting respect here.

One more suggestion: get a lawyer now!

Send me a private message if you have more questions.

Could not agree more, especially your last paragraph. Until All farangs stick together and stop wearing rose tinted glasses this will continue, I 'm not suggesting that we support other farangs when they are obviously in the wrong, but unfortunately some farangs seem to always make excuses and take the side of the Thai, perhaps mistakenly thinking that this will make the Thai's accept them as one Their own.

You're promoting a form of seperation that isn't good at all. It's like how some thais think. All thais should help one another and if this was the case you wouldn't have any thais helping you out.

Btw farangs are so different from one another too. In europe so many different farangs that speak so many different languages.

So how about helping the Thais to understand white skinned people are not all the same by first, maybe not refer to white skinned people as "farang" all the time, as that is the Thai definition of a white skinned person.

As I said before, a Farang, does not only mean a person with white skin. It actually means, first and foremost, white skin. And then secondly, a human being. Sure we are white, but we should help Thais to realize we are not all the same, and that skin color is not the most important thing.

Nationality, Culture, and most importantly, personality is what matters most to most of us.

First of all, it is only Askhenazi jews (easter european jews) who are smarter

Second, east asians (chinese, japanese and koreans) are only very slightly smarter (2 iq points in the biggest study),

while within white populations there are also big diversity. For example germans vs greeks or northern europeans in generals vs. southern europeans. I have never doubted the intelligence of japanese or chinese people at all, but you have to wonder if their strong collectivist leanings (perhaps from their dna) is holding them back in terms of invention and free thinking.

Askhenazi jews are smarter yes on average. They also don't seem very physically capable, unlike northern euros.

I have seen studies that says East Asians and Jews are more than "slightly" smarter than white people.

In terms of their strong collectivism in their culture, yes, it holds them back in terms of invention and free thinking.

Concerning Askehnazi Jews, it is true they have many health issues.

In terms of pure muscles build, it is less and less needed for the modern society. Brains are all the more important for the future.

When I use the term 'farang' in Thai conversation t is usually in the context of: Well what do you expect? I'm a farang.

And this is exactly the attitude that makes it easier for Thais to discriminate us. We simply love to be their dancing monkey.

I used to do this myself for many years. Before I realized even though it is fun and harmless on a surface level, it indeed also creates a lot of unnecessary trouble for us as well...

A few expats in that area and almost zero western tourists. It is popular with Chinese and Japanese tourists however. Sukhumvit is a 10 - 15 minute train ride away if you want it. There is a lot of great value accomodation (both short and long term) at less than half the price of something comparable on Sukhumvit. The thai food in that area is way better than sukhumvit. The nightlife there is not aimed at westerners but it does exist and can be interesting. If you want to drink imported beer at a faux British pub, you won't find anything like that on Ratchada. Plenty of shopping on Ratchada without the crowds and hassles of sukhumvit.

I agree with this statement.

You have lived here 11 years, and you still refer to yourself as "farang".

On the one hand you complain about being discriminated for being the "other".

And yet, you happily call yourself "farang".

One thing is for sure, if you cant even stop calling yourself "farang" (an object, rather than a human being), how on earth are you going to expect Thais will view you in another way??

The term "farang" doesn't denote an object, it is a mass noun used to identify a person of foreign ancestry the same way we refer to people being african americans.

How would you be able to stop calling yourself an "african american" in case you live in Asia for x number of years...? Are you saying the correct term should be "african american asian".

Brings to mind Tiger Woods home-made definition of himself: "Cablinasian". Apparently he made that up from being Caucasian, Black, American, Native American Indian and Asian or something in that region.

First of all, Thais do not view a "white person", the way most of the rest of us view race.

We, well most of us at least, think, underneath the skin, the main factor that decide how we behave, is based on cultural, national heritage and individuality, NOT primarily skin color (even though, there are minor differences between races).

But for a Thai, skin color is THE most important thing that decides how we behave, much more important than nationality, or culture. This is also the reason, why Thais can never, even for a second, get passed the fact that you have white skin, and that is the most important thing for a Thai to point out.

In the west, sure we know there are many different races around the world, but as soon as you get to know a non white person, on a really deep level, you will many times forget about his or her race, and mainly notice his personality.

This is however not the case for a Thai.

So keeping that in mind, I think it is just really stupid to always point out that we are so much different, by constantly calling ourselves "farang".

Racism and discrimination is a huge problem anyway, and especially in Thailand.

And on top of that, many of us, really enjoy calling ourselves "farang" all the time.

It is like saying, it´s ok, I know we are the dancing monkey, and we like it, but on the other hand, we can not understand why you Thais discriminate us all the time.

Why would you mess with anyone in the first place??

I truly feel that the Thai's (particularly the guys) hold a deep seated envy or resentment towards Westerners for having, coming from or being "more" than them. Another topic entirely of course. But were this to all come out into the open (in a non violent way) or if they were to grow up a bit and look at this question from a mature standpoint, they'd see things a bit more clearly.

How would you feel if your country got invaded by guys who earned about 10 times as much as you and your friends, had a know-it-all-attitude towards you, and strutting the streets with your local girls, hand in hand?