surayu

1) If any business provide me with a product/service that is just useless to me or could create damages to me because the business in question simply want to discharge all his responsability to me, maybe hoping i would not notice or read what they wrote, then i would ask for a refund, easy as that

2) Nobody stated that this lease would not be registered at the Land Office

3) The communication has been very intense and detailed, the staff of this company is so dedicated that they could not even do a "copy & paste" , just to give you an idea, missing some vital part of it and ironically replying to me using the e-mail from which they should have copied from

4) The reason to take an "unfinished" building is simply because i can choose my own furniture/decorations, etc, in the long term it can be cheaper then just to pay for a finished building of the same size, plus once i leave i can just take everything away with me.

5) I don't really want to pay those 20/30 millions for a building i am not sure i want to stay more than those 10 years, also considering that to sell it back it might take just as long.....

6) I don't think that communication in this case was the issue, it's seems to be just a way to do some easy cash and they couldn't bother less about fairness....

Update:

The owner of the company is still giveing the same story, so basically because his staff spend time giveing me a badly drafted contract which is totally useless to me, then he feel he's on the right side, great! ...i am reporting this crook to the Office of Consumer Protection Board here in Bangkok, beside this, there is any other action i should consider to regain what he stole? thanks

given the relative cost of the improvements doing the lease on the cheap would potentially be very risky here

the lease term seems a little strange - appears it is not going to be registered - is that the case?

(you previously mentioned renewal after 10 years, that may be the least of your problems here - regardless of the 'service' you feel you should have received for 10,000thb (which i still strongly disagree on), it appears may be heading into a very bad deal indeed - depending on the full story there is potential here for your lease to end as soon as the improvements are completed)

i have been told that by registering this contract on the Land Registry office is one way to make sure this will not happen, so obviously there are additional expenses on top, do you think there are more issues other than that?

UPDATE:

after have seen that nobody would bother tell me what action would they take about my request for a refund, i managed to get the mobile phone number of their managing director, which obviously was busy but at least i can credit him with an email sent after a few hours to tell me his version, his answer basically says that because his staff taked a considerable time to provide me with their service then there is no refund....now i explained to him that the reason it took so long is simply because of the inefficiency of his staff and all the trouble i had to make them understand that i am not going to pay for something that goes against me, what's the point? again i told him that a company should have at least the decency to guarantee his own services/product but like his own employees he doesn't seems to get that, i guess he gave them the training.....still waiting

Hi Tony, i use True at home 4MB package and now i paid roughly 1000 baht a month plus free internet x my mobile that need a username and password, untill last month they were charging me more than twice that, then they came out with this offer and i am quite happy with it (can watch many European tv channels on the net for free).

matters such as these could not possibly be adequately dealt with in a one page lease

not 100% clear

is 8,000thb the fee to the legal advisor for drafting?

so i can get a handle on it - how long is the lease intended to be for, what is the rough total rental price and what is the rough cost of the improvements you intend to make?

Montly rent: 8.000 ("lawyer" is 10.000)

Lease = 3 years + 3 years + 3 + 1 = 10 years

Very rough cost of improvements : 2 - 3 millions baht ?

At the italian embassy in BKK it should be a easy walk, my thai counterpart has never been asked for an insurance and also remember that in Italy whatever your nationality is, even if you are an illegal clandestine with no documents at all, you will get free basic medical help without being reported to the authorities, here medical practitioners still believe in the Hippocratic Oath while in Los i guess they use something like a "BoT Oath" but that's another story... i hope that help however double check with the embassy in case anything changed lately, as someone already mention try to speak with italian people rather then thai, enjoy your trip Sir

I think he meant the value of the total rental consideration to be paid over the term of the lease, not how much it cost to have the contract drafted.

I believe he wants to understand why having such a carefully drafted agreement is so important to you.

Hi Quiksilva, because even if it's almost rent free for the size of the building, it just need a considerable amount of cash to refurbish it and even do some building work inside, the Landlord verbally agree to either refund me of the cost i had to sustain if after 10 years the lease for any reasons will not be renewed or just allow me to take away anything i paid for from my own pockets, the original free contract he had showed me at the beginning was stating that anything i put inside of the building will remain his own when i leave and no refunds whatsoever, that's why a new contract was required and he had no problem with it, however the "legal professional" seemed to have MANY problems....

... and if he can't guarantee for the works he provides then he should change career me thinks....

Perhaps he can go into the business of selling buritos...

...yes you right there, maybe he had already taught about it too, just lets hope he get the ingredients right in there

Hi again Thaiwanderer, the value of the lease it's 8.000 baht, i honestly taught that what they asked me was much more the average price as i say i have been looking around a bit too, so just as a curiosity, what do you think will be the average price for a one page drafted rental agreement in your experience? thanks

Hi ChiangMaiBruce, thanks for the suggestion, i taught about just modify the agreement by myself but i declined to do this because i need someone aware of the local laws to take full responsability about all parts of this contract, just in case something goes wrong, i just don't want to see myself in front of a thai court with a judge telling me that what is wrote in that piece of paper cannot be legally accepted and i signed to take all the blame for it, that's why i hired a lawyer, because the job of the lawyer is to make sure everything there is valid and should never have any issues to guarantee that what he did doesn't have any legal falls and if he can't guarantee for the works he provides then he should change career me thinks....

UPDATE:

Ok, after have received my request for a refund, they just avoid it and send a reply to an e-mail they already had replied to in the past, please note that these people will never send you an e-mail of their own initiative unless you send them a request first, if they don't like what you ask them they will just pretend you are talking about something else and tell you something that basically doesn't answer your questions, how irritating is that? if i just would have known this before!!!!!

surayu,

Point taken.

Thank you,

-O

....sorry i am not sure of what you mean by this, can you be more detailed? thanks

you get what you pay for and unfortunately 10000thb pays for a pro forma contract (and not a very good one either)

depending on the lawyer thats the charge out rate for about one hour (i doubt a lawyer even looked at the file)

Hi Thaiwanderer, well i found many thai lawyer wishing to do much more for much less (please note that it was all done in Thailand, not New York eh?), they all had a proper well mantained office and seemed professional enough, i opted to pay 10 times more what i was asked for, with this much bigger company to have some sort of peace of mind as from the way they advertise they seemed to be the best one around, i wouldn't mind to have paid more to not compromise the validity of the rental contract, however as i already mentioned, seen what is offered around it appears to be a bit disproportionate, i believe is very important we keep updating each other about this kind of experiences so hopefully the next person can avoid getting this sort of big disappointment....even bigger when there is an expat on top of the company IMO....

Hello all, thanks for stating your opinion, just to make a bit more light on the story, i have been offered a free contract by the Landlord which i refused because the need of the many changes we agreed verbally and also to make sure we stand by the law, so i offered to pay for a new contract been draft and after have been looking around for a company that provide these kind of services, i choose to use a VERY well know company that also provide many other services around, if you use this website you know what i am talking about as it stands almost like a "sun in the sky", so very visible, i paid more than 10.000 baht and after almost 3 weeks and keeping sending back what they wrote for the reason you already know and others, i just got the last e-mail now that say they cannot change it as it's their policy....i just ask for a full refund and wait to see what the response will be, in the mean time i would just ad "stay well away from them"!......they are just like a "belt" being used to hanging customers rather then help! what a shame....

What about Doraemon? thai seems to like him alot.....however this supposed to be a democracy so people should be entitled to be represented from whoever win an election, nevermind how bad is that person, hopefully people will realize their mistake at some stage and then give him what he deserves, this untill we will not be directed not by people, parties, etc but by the pure science that will find out which one is the right choice to take everytime, so be ready guys, Doraemon is getting closer and you can already see him in all 7 Eleven

Thanks Bojo, i am just wondering how an agency selling legal services could just give you something like this? what's the point of hiring a "legal professional" if he just come up with something that basically says: " i have absolutely no clues of what i am doing and as a such if a made a mistake it will be all your fault for have trusted me" how inconsiderate and irresponsible is such attitudes? i am sure if i would have gone to the somtam lady dowstairs she would have showed me much more pride and honesty in what she's doing than this big professional company....after already 4 attempts to make them understand my point of view they just say it's not possible to modify or take off that disclaimer and no other guarantees given, i am going after a full refund of my money soon, perhaps Mr Greg would have some suggestions to make about this matter????

Hello all, i have the impression that this legal disclaimer is just being added to take off any responsability from the "legal expert" that drafted it, in such a way that if a court would find any part of it to be invalid, illegal or incorrect than the tenant, the landlord or both would be responsible for it but not the hired "professional", am i just misunderstanding it or what's your opinion about it? Thanks

Disclaimer : The Party prepared or provided this agreement in no way accept responsibilities of any claims, nor suits, arising from interpretation, judgment, or understanding of this entire agreement. Both Landlord and Tenant have taken considerable time and effort to read, understand and accept the bindings of this agreement on their own accord.

From which E.U. country your friend is coming from?

In any case, he should just report his passport as lost or stolen; then, following his own embassy rules, he will have -or not- to provide a police report.

This is not a big deal, just go to Khaosan police station; everyday dozen of people are queuing for an official "stolen" report.

Apply for a new passport, which mostly will be a temporary one (same day). In any case (unless crime!) embassy will not report to local police.

Make sure to have a valid & flexible one-way ticket (back home) and THB 20,000 within the next few days.

Contact a lawyer, to my knowledge, Sunbelt who sponsors this forum has proven facts dealing with immigration for such matter.

Let the lawyer do the job, it might takes longer in case of police background checking.

Stay away of any trouble until receive "green light" from the lawyer.

Hope it helps.

But please tell him not to do it again...

From my current experience i would strongly disagree with the choice of the legal service, how can you trust someone that just take off any legal responsability from the work they will provide you with? If anything they do for you is either invalid or not legal they will just ask you to take all responsability by yourself and say you should have know what you where doing! what's the point in hiring a company acting on this way? better you do all the job by yourself without throwing away money or find a serious company, by making them notice their faults they will just came up to you in a way like if they cannot understand of what are you talking about..... don't do it

Still, last time I went for my 1 year NonB there was a mile long line with 37 numbers before mine. But it didnt take more than 30 minutes anyway so they were actually very fast and efficient.

(they still willingly reached out for the 3000 baht tea money thou, unfortunately that hasnt changed)

...just 3k? wow then i would agree something has improved! last year the tea was at least 15k plus standard costs, so i just went to BKK where no drinks where required....

I don't want to appear pessimistic, however, never ever sign something you cannot understand, be on the safe side, especially in a country where you are guilty untill proved innocent, now it's kind of late for a translation but you might find some sort of agreement, maybe you can look for someone that would be interested in taking over your place, etc.. good luck

Wooo, "refuse to give you help if you're in trouble and they refuse to give an aid with the papers"

I would change my nationality from Italian to anything else if this is true.

Oh don't worry about Thailand it probably safer than Italy

First you are offensive towards italian people, second other european countries are following the same line.

I do not think that that is offensive to Italians Thailand is safer than Italy especially the Driving.

The Italians are the noisiest and most aggressive people that come on Holiday but the Expats that live here are the opposite, no wonder they are trying to get away from the ones that come on holiday I dont know if its true that Portugal & Italy are the 3rd world countries of Europe but the best thing to come out of Italy is the Food & Pinot Grigio oh and maybe some of those Red & Yellow sports cars that nobody can afford. On second thoughts they are as noisy as the Holiday Makers mind you Harleys are noisy Americans well thats another story.

......sorry Mr McHooligan, but if you really have to post some non-sense would you mind to make it at least sound funny so we can have a laugh at your sentences? now it's not even that....

Thailand is safe as every hotel safe-box in your room, where the management wrote that funny sign telling you that they will decline any responsability on what will happen to whatever you put in that safe or leave in your room, here you just have to see things on a bigger scale and the "management" wont tell you anything....

embassy forbid to travel to thailand for now....

Which country is this that has an Embassy forbidding travel to Thailand?

Nicaragua?