puipuitom

20 hours ago, sprq said:

Appalled by the Atlantic slave trade,  I nevertheless used to joke with a Jamaican friend in London: "You were dead lucky. We took you out of the African jungle and put you on a Caribbean beach."

How many, you think, would love it to return to their very prosperous ancestrial lands, to the decendants of those, who sold their ancesters into slavery ?

1 hour ago, Scott Tracy said:

An apology is insufficient, reparations are required.

 

Grant independence for all Caribbean islands, be they Overseas Territories or Crown Dependencies of the British Crown, France, The Netherlands, etc.

 

Or, a wai and 500 baht each citizen....

The Dutch government gave Hfl 3 BILLION to 360.000 inhabitants of Suriname ( = 1,3 million THB / person). This money is nearly all waisted, spoiled and gone. Half of the population already fled to Netherlands.

19 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

But they were not hunted own by European in Africa were they. They were rounded up and captured by their fellow African brothers. European have organized the shipping but they could have done it without help from African slave traders. How do these African traders make reparations. 

Before the Europeans came, they were enslaved towards what we now call the Muslim World, where they were not allowed to have children seen the abundant supply. Without the Europeans, big chance nobody would have ever heard of these people.

14 hours ago, curious297 said:

 

14 hours ago, curious297 said:

England had the Black & White Minstrels show starting in 1958 before being cancelled 20 years later. Even then, staff at the BBC showed their distaste for the show as it depicted the worst stereotype of a black man by white people dressed as blacks.  Today is considered offensive and even racist.  The point of concern was no black person looked, talked or spoke like the white actors portrayed. I never saw a black man with such big white lips, exaggerated large eyes, and dressed like...

 

I am old enough to remember watching Black & White Minstrels show in the UK in the 70's. I was confused why these "blackmen" looked, dressed and sounded wrong until my parents explained it to me. Even then as a young, innocent 6 year old, I knew something was not quite right. In my later years, white kids would do their own impressions of the Minstrels which could be considered even more condescending. As you know, children have no bounds when it comes to taking the <deleted>.

 

Here is a video showing the Black & White Minstrels show to teenagers today. Watch to hear their comments and see their reactions.

Some years later, I moved to Amsterdam. It was my first ever Christmas spent in the Netherlands. Whilst shopping, I come across Black Pete actors collecting money in the streets. My first reaction was surprise and then that same feeling I had as a boy watching the Black & White Minstrels came flooding back. I didn't know or care to know the story of black Pete, I just saw white people dressed up as black people, with their nappy hair,  big red lips and dressed in a way no black person would be seen dead wearing. My dutch friends tried to explain to me the story yet somehow, the words had no foundation to what my eyes were seeing. 

 

"They are Santas helpers" they said in a sheepish manner especially looking at my confused expression. "OK" I said, "So Where does Santa get these helpers from, as I don't know any black people living in the North Pole?". The situation got awkward very quickly.

 

I recalled what I had learned about slavery and The Netherlands heavy involvement (The Netherlands was one of the last countries to abolish slavery in 1863.) What I was looking at just felt wrong and made me feel very uncomfortable. Keep in mind, I had no idea or never heard about story of Black Pete. I just saw what I saw, white people depicting their misconstrued idealistic view of Black people.

"England had the Black & White Minstrels show starting in 1958" ... so a 100 years later copy of Black Peter, with as biggest difference: The Minstrels were to entertain grown-ups, the Dutch Black Peter for the children...without any dance and non-Sint&Piet songs.

Black Peter collecting money ?  For Sinterklaas as well as Black Peter, money is NEVER an issue. Maybe for the organisers, but NOT for these two fairy figures. I call this a lie.

"So Where does Santa get these helpers from, as I don't know any black people living in the North Pole?".  Every Dutch child knows, Sinterklaas + all Black Peters arrive by (steam) ship from SPAIN. North Pole is the place where that Anglo-Saxon obese guy holds the darfs ( as slaves?) to produce toys. So, also here, you donot know the Sint+Piet story.

Slavery... as well as in the predecessor of the Netherlands, the Republic of the United 7 Provinces ( of which Holland was one), slavery did not existed. Same in the rest of North-West Europe since the Middle Ages. Any slave, who set foot on Dutch soil was free. However in May 1776 this was changed to 6 months after arrival. What you probably mean, is slavery in the Dutch colonies: Surinam and the Dutch Antils, which ended 1 July 1863. The Dutch trans-atlantic slave trade was forbidden by royal degree of King William ! from June 1814. 

43 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Netherlands? 

Isn't that where the naughty bits are? 

Correct. Only naughty. In other countries they shoot-to-kill young coloured men for the slightest reason, like jogging.

10 hours ago, stevenl said:

Black peet is the one with the roe.

 

Don't kid yourself, originally he was the scary guy.

So, what has that to do with any slavery / racism ? 

Can ANY American imagine, ever, a more-or-less brown tanted man to punish naughty white children ? 

When the Americans are going to abolish : 

a) old fat man, who promotes obesity, holds little dwarfs at the North Pole as slaves to make toys, and forces reindeer in front of a sledge into the cold winter air around 25 Dec.?

b) awake a ground hogg out of its winter sleep to "forecast" the coming spring and summer ?

As soon as THAT happens, we Dutch will abolish an over 2000 years old story, transformed as so many old Germanic festivals into Christian coloured ones....

As many should know, many pagan festivals are transformed into Christian coloured ones.

Mid winter became Christmas, mid Summer Pentecost, Spring became Eastern even coupled to the appearance of the morning star, the planet named after the goddess Freya or Venus, fire crackers, noise, etc to chase the bad spirits away to step over into the new year became our Old & New, and.. Wodan/Odin ( also the god of the poets and story tellers) on his white horse Sleipnir galloping through the sky, accompanied by his to B L A C K ravens Huginn en Muninn, Who brought him news from the humans worth to pay a visit.

This all changed to a Christian bishop from (nowadays Turkish) Myra, accompanied by two servants ( later: former slaves, and as in the East Mediterranean, coming via the Muslim slave routes), riding on his white horse over the roofs, bring gifts to the good and punishment to the bad children. Elder persons make an ironic story in rhyme about good & wrongdoing of the target person, who receives their gift, to be read by that person with all others present to laugh ( and NEVER to hurt ) 

Racism of even excluding children out of these parties for children: I was 11 years Black Peter, and the opposite happened: a little school with 12-16 pupils,. but for Sinterklaas.. we had to hire a big place, as we got in 100-150 children from everywhere... the same village, parents/friends / family who visited that little school, whatever. Gift in the cart with name on, story in the Big Book of Sinterklaas, and... a voluntary contribution to pay all costs was very welcome.

Only in some cities, BLACK Peter has changed under pressure of rioters here, like The Ashanti origin Rapper Akwasi ... who said during the demonstration in Amsterdam to "kick any Black Peter in his face". 

https://www.dagelijksestandaard.nl/2020/06/volgende-agressieve-haatrapper-meldt-zich-ronnie-flex-als-ik-een-zwarte-piet-zie-trap-ik-in-zijn-gezicht/

As usual, Americans do not have even the beginning of the faintest knowledge about attitudes and ways of life in other areas of the world. So.. start first to stop your own racism before you even THINK in other countries exist the same. 

Bye-the-way: any idea, where Netherlands is situated ? Maybe a part of Russia ? Ask "The Donald". 

5 hours ago, vogie said:

The UK fishing industry must be important to the EU, they have done nothing but talk about it, however the EU have finally realised that waters around the UK, belong to the UK and have said themselves that EU boats do not have a right to fish them.

In the British press... yes, but in the German, Belgium, Dutch,.,.. just a word at max. 

7 hours ago, Peterphuket said:

Fact is that Unilever, a company 50% British, 50% dutch,  surely not one of the smallest, initially intended to stay in the Netherlands, has decided now to stay 100% in England.

A global player, who brings ONLY 50% of his headquarters to London, pure out of cost reduction.

5 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

And most cars produced in the UK are for export.

What do you think is going to happen there?

Follow BMW-Mini... to Borne - NL. ( if their contract is prelonged, as.. all car manufacturers have too much production) , inclusive Nissan.

9 hours ago, smedly said:

she was elected by MEP's - they got a voting paper with only one choice on it

This EU thing is just wrong on so many levels 

we will buy your produce just as we always have - it is called trading, if people in the UK don't want to buy your produce then tough, that is called free trading 

the European Council nominate the president of the Commission, the members of the EU parliament only can reject = have a "veto" right.

"free trading ": correct, inclusive the EU import duty in accordance with WTO-regulations, in this case "third counteries' like the UK. https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/dds2/taric/taric_consultation.jsp?Lang=en. Same for imports into the UK.

For instance on cars: 10 %. Nissan happy.

Oh... and do not forget your Schengen visa...

8 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

The banana thing is a euromyth, a.k.a. a lie, a.k.a. the real project fear, 40 years of anti-EU BS peddled by the majority of the UK press.

see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_Regulation_(EC)_No._2257/94 .

In the UK after 1 Jan 20121 all out-of-standard bananas can be dumped.

These statues symbolise a part of our mutial history, right or wrong, but.. our mutual history.

By erasing this, in just a few generations we all will not be remembered anymore to what then is now so much detested.

We also do not remove the statues of the Roman Emperors, nor Charlemagne, despite all have the blood of many on their hands.

In these cases I always remember the little maritime museum in Dover, with a conserved boat out of the Stone Age plus.. a little wooden sculpture from maybe 3000 before Chr, with 3 sailors, of which the cocks were made a LOT smaller during the Victorian Era...

8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Putin will be delighted.

You think, OPutin can afford expensive military adventures ? if so, he would have done that in Ukraine.

A 140 million begger nation, with only oil and gas to export, which are now "in the basement" for prices... OK, with a defence force of entire Europe not more as a third rank nation a 30 eyars ago, even with one battallion you can conquer all from Helsinki to Cork.

UK.. growing towards 50.000 corona casualties. Who will be nr 1, nr 2 and nr 3: USA, Brazil or UK. ? 

2 hours ago, Kadilo said:

“Relax rules on outdoor dining and weddings” “Back to normal .....before the Summer”

 

Do us a favour. We just had thousands of people demonstrating with a fag paper between them despite Police and Government warnings that it was unlawful and you’re gonna relax the rules in the coming weeks. 
 

The are putting stickers down on every floor in every shop telling people where they can stand otherwise they are not COVID friendly. 

The Government lost a large chunk of control following the Cummings farce and rest yesterday. It’s time to stop the charade and let people get on with their lives. It’s become a laughing stock 

Seen teh bright ideas of the British, they are now the country with the highest corona-deaths per 1 million inhabitants. Maybe start up a happy-handshake tour again, as it is no mora a a flue...

21 hours ago, tribalfusion001 said:

And when will that be? Does that mean we have to put up stupid social distancing for years.

We "enjoyed" the Spanish Flue for 4 years in 4 waves ( 1918-1922) . On a world population of 2 billion 30- 50, maybe even 100 million casualties, The death toll was 228,000 in Britain alone, with a population of 44 million ( so at 67 mln = theoretically 347.000 Boris + Dominic can laugh) . see https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/The-Spanish-Flu-pandemic-of-1918/ https://www.history.com/news/spanish-flu-second-wave-resurgence