LevelHead

I don't see anything wrong with a new election, but I'm not sure it would accomplish anything. Thai politics is extremely fragmented. Only a coalition is going to govern. Abhisit won the last round of coalition building. I don't think he's lost any support, judging from the last no confidence vote. The red shirts need to look at what happened in Israel and realize that the party with the most votes doesn't always come to power. The key is building a coalition.

The problem with new elections, for certain politicians, is that many people have pumped millions into the PAD and backing certain people to get the Democrats into power.

They have not had time to get the money back on new government tenders and contracts.

If they dissolve the House and have new elections, then the power backers will have to write off all the money they spent and that will hurt very badly, and thats why its so difficult for new elections to be held so early, simply the "payback honeymoon" has not happened yet for the backers.

This is what people tell me anyway

How about prison time for those that took over the airport?

Just about the same as a justice finally served on my traffic ticket - irrelevant.

We have a red mobs on a hunt to kill the Prime Minister - that's as treasonous as it gets, and it's happening right now.

Please show me the evidence where they say "Kill the Prime Minister"

Or stop posting your nonsense.

Yes CNN very neutral.

BBC saying how Thaksin is humliated and lost loads of face.

henryalleman is telling lies about the CNN coverage. Watch it yourself.

No thanks. I'll stick with AJE. They've had excellent, unbiassed coverage and insightful interviews.

AJE? More details please...

AlJazeera.

Watching it now.

Abhisit said the army/police would disperse the demonstration, something is about to happen.

Either they refuse to follow orders or fail, or they do their job and use force and tomorrow Abhisit will apologise for casualties and forgive all but immediate red leaders.

In the first scenario Abhisit would probably have to resign, but that is inconsequential because Thailand would be officially ruled a failed, lawless state in the hands of a rabid mob, and it will stay this way until the reds install their own government accepted by the rest of the country and with enough power to confront inevitable yellows and other anti-reds, which is not going to happen, ever.

So, it's a nation on the brink, and stakes are LOT, LOT higher than Abhisit's political future and even Thaksin's money.

I don't understand why no news coming in. I mean these things are happening since the morning, everything is just too slow.

If the army walks in and secures the area it would have been finished by now. Recall how fast the last coup was.

Either all units are on holidays, or some units don't follow and they need units from the south or or or any other ideas???

This is so different. All the red shirts on the streets, all the taxi drivers. The army just can't turn up in their tanks and expect everyone to go away. Unless they demonstrate they are serious, the red shirts will just walk all over them, which they have already shown ....

Are Abhisit and Suthep in control?

Looks like the answer might be no.

Army doing nothing, Police doing nothing.

Eggy faces? Time to resign and dissolve the House?

I am informed the Army will not do anything.

They will not use force against the Reds.

The politicians will be given the choice to step down, or be removed.

An anti-Democrat/Coalition coup is looking very likely, unless they dissolve the House.

:rolleyes :

Words are not needed.

I hope to return the compliment to you for many years to come, with the "I was right"

Let time now prove who is right and who is wrong.

Its now 1.5 hours since Abhisit said to the effect "things are in place and going to happen soon".

And nothing has happened.

More egg on face coming?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...-to-join-rallie

Thaksin makes phone-in, calling more to join rallies

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra made a phone-in to the rally at the Government House at 6:30 pm, calling more people to join anti-government rallies in Bangkok.

He said it was the "golden time" now for the protesters to rise up against the government after soldiers were deployed to Bangkok streets.

He said he was ready to move into Thailand to lead the people's uprising.

The Nation

end quote

I think this is called revolution or coup???

Dunno, but that could be one way to arrest him;)

Well, that depends on

If he comes back

Where he enters the country

and more importantly WHO IS WITH HIM.

Now, if a couple of very high level people were to walk with him nobody would dare touch him perhaps?

Cannot see it happening just yet, think people are just rumour mongering, but then, what do I know.........

Via a regular tv station, I saw a group of reds on the tank. They took control of one tank now.

Are you very proud about the fact that a Bhuddist monk act like a hooligan hitting a car,

shame on him!!!!!

CNN just reported that red shirt lost all credibility and they respect Abhisit for his restrain, not step in the trap your terrorist organisation is set up for him.

They also report that its only a few thousand reds are cousing the problems and that there is not support from the Thai public for those actions.

Luck you have an PM like Abhisit, who don't like to use violence. You should respect him for that, and sooner or later when you will grow up, you will respect him for that.

And all of this is happening while the coward T hiding himself abroad together with his family, while he set the country on fire. Why at least he doin't send his children to give an helping hand, or are they much more important than the children of the misguided ignorants who fight his battle for regaining his billions;

Grow up Koo before you will ashame yourself more.

CNN have said nothing of the sort. Watch the very neutral news there and stop mis-leading, henryalleman. I find it amazing how some people can just imagine things and post them as reality here...

Yes CNN very neutral.

BBC saying how Thaksin is humliated and lost loads of face.

henryalleman is telling lies about the CNN coverage. Watch it yourself.

This is getting very interesting now.

I am informed a brother and sister are being sent to Khon Kaen tomorrow.

Mum in honey, brother and sister now united in rose.

And yet the dumb farangs on here still have no clue what the real underlying battle is, and why its so.

That alliance sounds a little unlikely.

Sorry if you made a mistake, I was not talking of any specific family , just how this can split families down the middle

I am informed the Army will not do anything.

They will not use force against the Reds.

The politicians will be given the choice to step down, or be removed.

An anti-Democrat/Coalition coup is looking very likely, unless they dissolve the House.

Informed by whom? do you have military advisers from inside telling you their plans?? Get real!

Watch and learn who has the contacts and sources.

Time always shows who knows what at the end.

This is getting very interesting now.

I am informed a brother and sister are being sent to Khon Kaen tomorrow.

Mum in honey, brother and sister now united in rose.

And yet the dumb farangs on here still have no clue what the real underlying battle is, and why its so.

Sorry LevelHead, please explain....

Lets just say, the Army will take no action against the reds, just the same as none was taken against the yellows.

The politicians must step down, or be removed is what I am hearing.

On the nation there are several news about the protesters blocking the streets with cars, buses motorbikes.

Any army guy here??

When the army has tanks, no mater how old they are, this shouldn't be a big issue or?

I saw a few pictures of tanks going over cars and it didn't look very difficult so what is the issue on that???

Most the Army foot solidiers are from where most of the rural and poor population are........the normal recruitment area. Thats the North, the NorthEast and the East. This is where the majority of THAI people are.

Their brothers and sisters and fighting for Democracy, are the foot solidiers really going to stop them.................

Abhisit urges people not to panic, officials ready to suppress protesters

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva announced on TV at 5:20 pm Sunday that the authorities were now ready to suppress protesters.

He urged the public to remain calm during the operations.

The Nation

All those saying that Abhisit and the current government are illegal and illegitimate are totally wrong and know nothing about how a Parliamentary system of government works.

Abhisit was elected in the same manner that all Members of Parliament of all parties are elected.. He was elected as an individual and his party was assigned a number of additional seats for distribution of their "list" candidates based on Proportional voting patterns. This was the same for all Political Parties in Thailand.

It is up to the parties to either win a majority or arrange for a coalition with other parties to create the necessary majority to create and control a government.

This is what happened with Abhisit and the Democrats after the dissolution of the previous majority Puah Thai party. It is Constitutional and legal, no matter what the Red shirts are saying. If Phau Thai could have found a way to remain in power constitutionally then they would still be the government today. They couldn't and they can't. Their current actions are the ones that are illegal and illegitimate, beside just sour grapes of sore losers. Legally their only recourse is to wait for another election, which the current government is under no legal or moral obligation to call, until their constitutionally set term as elected MPs has expired. Just like any other government that has changed due to a No-Confidence vote in parliament. In this case, it wasn't a No-Confidence vote that brought the government down, but a ruling of the Highest Court in the land. (The same kind or ruling that put an illegitimate President in power in the USA... But Americans may have bitched... justly, but no one started a revolution... and it took 8 LONG years to finally correct that situation.)

If Corruption and Vote-Buying were not prevalent in Thailand, and if the TRT, PPP, and Puah Thai parties had ran an honest election they would not have had their parties dissolved.

The Democrats were able to establish the necessary controlling coalition, and Abhisit as leader of the Dems became Prime Minister. This is how it would work in the UK, Canada, Australia, and all other Parliamentary democracies, and so it happened here.

Demonstrators disrupting the peace are criminals, whether Red, Yellow or Blue shirts. They are no different them demonstrators who violated the peaceful assemblies at the Group of 20 conference in London a few weeks ago, or WTO conferences or the Democratic convention in Chicago many years ago... The difference is that at recent demonstrations, like in London, security is well executed and demonstrators are kept under control, allowing for the legitimate and peaceful expression of their grievances. Those that get unruly and start to get out of hand are swiftly brought to justice, and order returns... The exception of course was Chicago in 1969, where you had a riot caused by police action.

What is happening now here is an inevitable product of a society that considers all demonstrations to be a "Mob", and that has no proper understanding of what it truly means to participate in a Democracy and what is the proper execution of the right of protest. This is, of course, a natural by-product of the lack of proper education, a Mai Pen Rai attitude to Corruption, and the application of censorship and un-earned respect... all by-products of a Feudal System that worships Money over all, with no respect for the rule of law... unfortunately, the situation that exists here now.

Thailand has descended into a place where a total breakdown of the rule of law and respect for dissenting opinions will inevitably lead to a total political melt-down and a disintegration of their society... and probably this is for the better... only a catastrophic event can clear the path for the cleansing of their political and cultural deficiencies, which have only contributed and directly led to the events of the last few years, months and days.

Oh well... TIT

CS

Sorry, the 2006 coup was illegal, and so was the scrapping of the 1997 Peoples Constitution.

Every event since then is illegtimate in all reality, and is the root cause of all the problems today.

End Of Story.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle6080866.ece

From Times OnlineApril 12, 2009

Army mobilises for Thai state of emergency

(Apichart Weerawong/AP)

Soldiers and tanks rumble through Bangkok after declaration of state of emergency

Sian Powell in Bangkok

Armed soldiers and tanks have been deployed around Bangkok after the Government’s declaration on state television this afternoon of a state of emergency in the Thai capital and surrounding areas.

The state of emergency forbids people to gather in groups of more than five, which one anti-Government "red-shirt" described as a hostile decision.

“The red-shirts regard that action as a declaration of war against the people of Thailand,” Jakropob Penkair, the activist leader, told reporters.

Tensions soared in Bangkok after the arrest this morning of the red-shirt activist who led the invasion of a South East Asian Nations (ASEAN) summit in the Thai resort town of Pattaya, sending foreign leaders fleeing and humiliating the Prime Minister, Abhisit Vejjajiva.

The United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship activists over-ran the summit with remarkable ease yesterday, even though Thailand had deployed thousands of police and soldiers to guard the resort venue.

The red-shirts were attacked by a group of pro-government blue-shirt activists, who hurled sticks and bottles, but they fought back and pressed on to the summit venue, breaking in and sending officials scurrying for cover. A number of foreign leaders were evacuated from the resort by helicopter. Others, including the Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, turned back before they even reached Pattaya.

Mr Abhisit, who came to office four months ago after a number of opposition supporters defected to his side, said today that legal action would be taken against those who derailed the summit.

“I insist that over the next three or four days, it is most important for the Government to prove it can bring peace to the nation,” he said in a weekly address to the nation.

“If there are requests for me to resign or dissolve parliament, don’t worry, I am prepared to make such decisions. But today, in the current situation, what I have to do is to bring peace to the country, bring back governance and have a process of political reform.”

Police arrested red-shirt leader Arisman Pongruangrong this morning, infuriating his supporters, who are now besieging Government House in Bangkok. Mr Arisman, a former politician the party of the fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, was apparently detained for leading his followers to invade the summit venue in Pattaya.

The follow the lead of Mr Thaksin, who has been addressing them from overseas and fomenting their discontent.

After the successful siege he congratulated them on their victory and told them to prepare for further action. “Our people in Bangkok and the provinces can unite to change the country,” he said.

Mr Abhisit earlier said he wanted to reschedule the ASEAN summits, which have now been derailed twice – the first time late last year, when another group of activists, the so-called yellow-shirts, occupied Bangkok’s airport. However analysts expressed doubt that foreign leaders would be willing to risk returning to Thailand for the meetings.

THAILAND’S POLITICAL RAINBOW

Red-shirts: The common name for the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), the red-shirts support Mr Thaksin and the various proxy governments which have followed his line since his exile. The red-shirts have been revved up by almost nightly broadcasts from Mr Thaksin over the past week. They have been rallying in the tens of thousands, successfully besieged the summits in Pattaya, and demand the dissolution of the current government.

Yellow-shirts: The anti-Thaksin group who support Thailand’s current government, grouped under the umbrella of the People’s Alliance for Democracy. The yellow-shirts occupied Bangkok’s Suvarnabhumi airport to devastating effect late last year, and eventually forced the Thaksin-aligned government out, much to the chagrin of the red-shirts.

Blue-shirts: A new group of government supporters, a rag-tag mob which emerged from nowhere in Pattaya. The red-shirts hold dark suspicions the blue-shirts are hired thugs answering to pro-Government politicians.

BBC and other international media now reporting on the Abhisit/Democrat "HYPOCRISY" of arresting a red shirt leader, but never doing anything about the yellow shirts who took over government house and shut down the international airport.

The man is looking like a complete idiot now to many people worldwide, just what the reds want him to look like. Talk about a dumb move, how can you arrest a red when not one single yellow leader has been arrested.

Say that holding the Asean summit is a test of their power, and then it fails in full view of the world.

Now arrest a red leader whilst never arresting a yellow.

If one person or group is causing severe harm to Thailand's reputation, its Abhisit and the Democrats. Give the mandate back to the people, dissolve the house and put back the 1997 constitution.

Oh dear. I think someone is digging a large hole to jump into.

PAD cannot be brought to justice due to the long delays, months, years, in the legal procedure in Thailand excuse...............

Reds can be processed in a couple of days no problem.

This is a real problem, a feeling that the PAD is untouchable and protected while the Reds are immediately branded as "public enemies".Abhisit makes all the right noises about bringing the PAD criminals to book but nothing happens, confirming the perception that the PAD leadership will wriggle out of charges in the end.Clearly leaders of both colours need to be charged.What happened at Pattaya was unacceptable but no worse than what happened when the Yellows seized the international airport, particularly since the latter was the inspiration for the former.It remains of course ridiculous that Kasit is in the government.Let's hope he falls metaphorically on his sword very soon.

Incidentally I think you are a bit hard on OMR who is normally quite sensible and does recognise shade and nuance, although I agree he has completely lost it in his last few posts - no doubt the result of the frustration most of us feel.He makes the fair point incidentally that the Reds are not just a rural mass but I wonder if he grasps the implications of their increasing urban support.I have always known that the opponents of PAD (not the same thing as the Reds of course) contained a very large middle class and educated element.

A

The problem is that the red interrupted the summit. While the airport closed on itself while the yellows protested peaceful OUTSIDE. They went in later. No matter if it is true or not, it is what the official documents are telling.

Is there any law against stopping an ASEAN summit?

I seem to remember that there was no law against blocking an airport so thats why the action against the PAD is so slooooooow.

And now, the same excuse can be used by the Reds as there is no specific law pertaining to "ASEAN Summit prevention".......

http://nganadeeleg.blogspot.com/2009/04/ab...old-you-so.html

Saturday, April 11, 2009

Abhisit: I told you so!

.

The Abhisit governments handling of security matters for the ASEAN summit can only be described as a sick joke.

The need to avoid bloodshed is a lame excuse when it comes to blatant lawlessness.

The previous PPP governments were hamstrung in dealing with the PAD because they were scared of any incidents that would derail their ultimate goal of whitewashing Thaksin, and deep down they knew they had not addressed the genuine concerns of the PAD.

Now the Abhisit government has also been hamstrung by a guilty conscience about the way the coalition came about, and the fact that they know they had not properly addressed the genuine concerns of the reds.

Abhisit - mate, if only you read my blog, I could have saved you a lot of trouble!

Here's a reminder of what I advised back in January and February:

"Just like the PPP led government failed to act in a reasonable and competent manner, this current Democrat led government is doing the same.

Abhisit appears reasonable with his smooth talking, but it's actions that count in the long run.

The handling of the Rohingya issue looks bad from an outsiders perspective, but I could imagine it would have been handled even worse by a Samak or Thaksin PM.

(It should also be remembered that the initial boat people incident happened in December when the new government had just taken over, so it could hardly be Democrat policy that caused the scandal)

There are, however, other things that the Democrat led government has had more control over, and it is the handling of those matters that has shown that they are hardly any better than their predecessors:

- Kasit as FM

(his past words mean he has to go, and they have missed their opportunity to do it quietly in the interests of reconciliation)

- PAD leaders to be held accountable

(even if the airport occupation charges are still being investigated, surely there are still outstanding charges from the government house occupation that can be acted upon in the meantime - IMO, getting Sondhi L in jail will go a long way towards moving the country forward)

- Lese Majeste & Internet crackdown

(looked at on it's own, without consideration of the political realities, the Democrats handling of this matter has been disgraceful - IMO, they should be setting a positive example and leading the debate on how to have the LM laws changed so that the monarchy can be kept out of politics)

- Reconciliation, Political/Constitutional reform

(on this matter, the Democrats have again let political considerations get in the way of simply doing what's right - IMO, they should work with the opposition to get a satisfactory amnesty bill and to get a consultative process going for constitutional reform)

This is what I said when Samak was removed:

"Samak is gone - even though the cooking show trigger for his demise was nonsensical, I wont be shedding a tear for him - had his chances to be reasonable, he wasn't, so I say good riddance!"

It is not hard to foresee a day when I will be saying something similar for Abhisit.

OK, I will try again. Here's my new advice to you - assuming you are still in power as I write this, and assuming of course, that you are now ready to start listening to me

1. Kasit must go (you now have another opportunity to do it, in the interests of reconciliation)

2. You must agree to liaise with the opposition regarding the amnesty bill

(basically the 111 banned politicians to have their political rights reinstated, draw a line in the sand and give blanket amnesty to all protest leaders except any who can be directly implicated in any criminal activity, and also to the pending LM & Computer crime cases)

3. Initiate a complete round of political reform, including using the 1997 constitution as the starting point, but also including amendments to the LM and Computer Crime laws, looking at and concisely defining the role of the privy council, implementing a strict permit system for future protests (to put some rules in place as so that the never ending supply of gullible and bloody minded protesters can be kept in check otherwise no government will ever be able to do anything) - surely there are enough great unbiased minds in Thailand that can come up with something appropriate, but if there are still contentious items then they will need to go to a referendum

4. Set a strict, but realistic timetable for the above political reform process, including a date for the next election to be held as soon as the new rules are in place.

5. Request that all parties/sides/colors take a step back from protesting, and invite them to instead get involved in the political reform process.

6. Strictly implement rule of law without fear or favour

7. Thaksin???? - I'm thinking that he is a special case and a negotiated settlement needs to be reached with him, but who does the negotiating? Off the top of my head, the best solution I can come up with is a special act of parliament requiring say 75% approval.

(it will mainly need to be a financial settlement, however the amount might depend on whether he enters binding commitments relating to the extent of his future political involvement).

As usual, its just general rambling to get it off my chest, and the real experts would need to work out ways to facilitate the legalities.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7995027.stm

Summit feast for troops and staff

8,000 police and soldiers had been mobilised to protect Asean leaders

Soldiers, reporters and minor officials tucked into a gourmet feast prepared for the Asean summit in Thailand after leaders had to abandon the meeting.

The summit was cancelled and leaders were evacuated after demonstrators stormed the venue in Pattaya.

But their dinner had already been cooked and paid for - and plenty of people were prepared to enjoy it.

Waitresses served Thai delicacies to the group of troops, journalists and summit staff in a 700-seat ballroom.

"The hotel charged us. We have to pay anyway," Suhat Sungchaya, who helped organise the dinner for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, told the Associated Press news agency.

"So that is why we decided to invite the people behind the scenes."

The menu included catfish salad, lobster and shrimp satay, as well as red and white wine.

"I'm sorry for the leaders," ministry intern Suthanthip Sararith told AP. "Thailand is famous for its food."

"They can't eat all this great food. At least we get the chance to see how it tastes."

Oh dear. I think someone is digging a large hole to jump into.

PAD cannot be brought to justice due to the long delays, months, years, in the legal procedure in Thailand excuse...............

Reds can be processed in a couple of days no problem.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...-Pattaya-rallie

Legal actions against wrongdoers in Pattaya rallies will be carried out in 3 or 4 days

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said Sunday that legal actions against wrongdoers in the Pattaya demonstrations in a few days.

The prime minister said an arrest warrant has been obtained for the arrest of a leader of the red-shirted demonstrations in Pattaya Saturday.

He said his government would make sure that no more law violations by the protesters would happen.

The government would use drastic measures to prevent more wrongdoings and to return normality to the country.

He said the government would ensure that the rule of law would prevail.

He also urged the red-shirted leaders should stop inciting the people to violate the laws.

There is no baby in this bath water. It is pure rubbish. Thaksin, a robin hood stealing from the rich and giving to the poor. Come on! He got richer and left the poor with rising debt to buy his mobile phones. This is a Robin Hood?

This guy has a problem with the 2007 constitution. Does he not know who signed it into law?

He thinks the Reds are the common rural poor seeking more democracy. Rubbish. The reds mostly come from Bangkok and surrounding areas and drive their cars to the demonstrations in the evenings. How did he miss this? This isn't about democracy for the common person. It never was. This is all about a few republicans (including Thaksin) seeking to overthrow the aristocracy and take control of everything they control. See Penkair's remarks to the international press yesterday and maybe you will figure it out.

This will all be over soon, thankfully.

Sadly OldMadRiver is one of the hardcore Yellows who will never change their mind or allow free thought.

I posted "Thaksin took from the rich Elite and gave to the lower levels to spread it".

OMR says "gave to the poor".

No, I did not say that. He spread it about to the levels below the Elite, which in turn spread it out amongst more people by the chain reaction, as opposed to it being taken all by just a very few uber rich elite.

OMR says Thaksin did not crack down on corruption, he did, in a big way, but he cracked down the Elite and allowed a lot more lower level fingers in the pie. You cannot take a society that is used to total corruption and make it clean in one foul swoop. What you can do is spread it out more and more until so many fingers are in the pie that its so diluted that finally it becomes of no real importance, and from that stage, you clean it up.

The drugs trade is run by the Elite, how on earth do you think all the drugs get into Thailand and transported so easily around the place. Are the Army so useless they cannot patrol the borders or are they turning a blind eye on purpose? You choose! This was the first big run in between Thaksin and the Elite......by clamping down on drugs it stopped their income from this illicit trade and this was the first stage of upsetting them. Its well documented how the drugs factories in Burma run at very low production levels once the crackdown was in place.

OMR might have Democrat connections, or their business may be suited to have Dems in power, but do not let these people with their lies and unproven allegations cloud peoples minds.

Thaksin has never been proven to have taken any money for himself. And until such time as he is, he is innocent of any charges of taking money for himself.

One must be very careful not to allow the "anti-Thaksin" hype and propoganda to cloud the real issue and problem, and that is of course the 2006 coup and all events that followed.

Thailand needs its 1997 Peoples constitution back really.

In basic summary NOTHING that has happened since the coup is legitimate, and this is the crux of the problem. The 2006 Coup was against the law and a treasonous act according to the in place "Peoples Constitution of 1997".

Simply because they replaced it with a new constitution that was only just managed to get through a referendum that was held under Martial Law in places, with the Coup leaders spending lots of money "educating" villagers to accept it and with a blanket Army order to vote yes and with the threat that "if you do not accept it there will not be an election for many years".

Just because they did that, does not take away from the fact that all goings on since the 2006 coup have been illegal under the previous constitution. And so everything since that date has no legitimacy and its why the country is now totally messed up.

A simple summary of events could be (and there is no implication this is actually what happened, its for discussion purposes only) -

Thaksin was getting too powerful and well liked.

Thaksin was clamping down on corruption of the Elites.

Thaksin was spreading the money out to the people, like Robin Hood, take it from the top level Elite and give to the lower levels and spread the wealth.

This upset the Elite.

They paid big money for a coup.

The coup happened, it was illegal under the previous constitution so that had to be thrown in the bin to remove the "treason" from the coup.

The Elite who paid big money wanted Thaksin "disgraced, humbled and if possible dead as well".

The Coup leaders appointed new judges, made up a new department to find Thaksin guilty of everything possible they could make up, invent, think of.

A new constitution was rammed down the peoples throats, along with the banning of most of Thaksin's party (TRT) so that the Dems would win the election.

The Dems failed to win the election, the Elite big money that was behind the coup and the new constitution were totally upset.

The big money Elite then backs the PAD to bring down all who stand in the way of getting the Dems into power.

Dissolve them, ban them, water them down, buy them into a coalition, we do not care but the Dems MUST be in power.

Whatever way the big money Elite want the Dems in power, and finally get what they want.

But it goes wrong as some common people have woken up to whats going on, Thaksin in an act of revenge starts telling information about the system and how it works and who pulls what strings, the people knew that in their minds but finally get someone on the inside to say it in public. This acts as a catalyst for those who want more, and not less, democracy. Although many do not support Thaksin, they realise that by joining his bandwagon they can achieve more for the good of the common rural poor than they can by being a dissenting voice on their own. The movement snowballs.

“Average Man” knows that’s going on and supports the reds, but is fed up of all of the goings on, so he keeps quiet and turns a blind eye, if he meets a Yellow he bemoans the Reds, if he meets a Red he supports them, but turn on the TV in the privacy of his own home and he cheers the Reds and hope they win.

“Average Man” knows his place in society, he has been beaten into it over many years, if he scratches an Elites 7 series BMW he knows he might be killed for it, if he bumps into Elites “mia noi number 1” then he knows he could be in big trouble, if he were ever to be seen not supporting the views of the local Elites representative, he knows his family will be in big trouble. Such is the life of the “Average Man”, he is a slave under the system and too scared to have a voice. Farangs moan about why “Average Man” does not do more about whats going on, but Farang can run away, “Average Man” must face the consequences of poverty or death or beatings for his action.

SO WHAT HAPPENS NEXT –

DON’T CARE – the Elite tell the Democrats to just get on with it and ignore everything that’s going on around them. “We don’t care about the unwashed”, continue as normal and it will all just die away in time, and if it does not then who cares anyway, we are still ok. Abhisit is replaced with an ex-military strongman. This causes more public backlash as Mr Nice Guy is gone and more people join the reds.

COUP VERSION A – this is the coup again sponsored by the big money Elite, they pay for another coup and this time totally remove the voting rights of the people. An appointed government will bring in that all future elections will only represent 30% of the parliament. The direct appointed 70% retain always the power, and the Elite for ever more have the power and control, and no nasty Thaksin like people can ever threaten them again. This is more open that simply pulling the strings of the puppet Democrat government, and does not hide under the guise of democracy they have at the moment with the Democrats. “Coup A” amends the 2008 Coup constitution to stop democracy for ever more.

COUP VERSION B – a section of the military finally has enough of the way the Elite are causing the destruction to Thailand simply to get the power back in their hands and remove the democracy from the people (or someone like Thaksin pays them). They side with Thaksin and unite together to once and for all rid Thailand of some of the most evil elements of the Elite. Its not the perfect situation but certainly finally gives the people of Thailand more power than they ever had before. This “Coup B” wipes all slates clean and reinstates the 1997 constitution.

Coup version A might be forced to happen. The Elite know fully well that the soldiers and police are mostly North and North Eastern/Eastern men and women. This is the majority of the Thai population and the poorest area’s, so it’s the natural recruitment base. These people know what Thaksin did for their hometowns and villages and families, and so have no fight against him or the TRT/PPP/PTP/ Reds.

When the Yellows protested the police/soldiers could not disobey orders and so were powerless. Any action against direct orders to take no action would land them in hot water.

When the Reds protest the police/soldiers agree with them, and so will not do anything against them, and no general is willing to officially give an order to kill, as they know they will be blamed later. With no official orders the soldiers and police will happily stand around doing nothing.

I think a Coup is perhaps the only way out of this now at this juncture without knowing further events, it allows slates to be wiped clean, or it allows people to remove democracy totally. One is going to happen, will it be slate clean, or dead democracy. The immediate future is very interesting. We are actually witnessing now the first ever battle of wills between the “common people” and the “Elite”.

The worry is of course that “Coup A” could lead to a civilian uprising, the “civil war” some people speak about. To finally have to show their hand, to have to visibly and openly take away the freedoms and rights of the people, it might be the “straw that breaks the camels back” and the “great unwashed” finally rise up against the Elite.

As the Chinese say, “May you live in interesting times”. These certainly are interesting times.

The Yellows were :

Trying to stop the changing of the new constitution, the unwanted one that went through just by way of what is potentially a very rigged referendum held under martial law in places.

Trying to remove democracy totally, and having an appointed government, so that peoples votes mean nothing, only the Elite would ever rule and they would never have to be subject to "peoples votes".

Do not see how that is "enforcing the law".

The Asean leaders do not care about Thaksin. They were TOLD IT WAS SAFE AND THE SUMMIT WOULD HAPPEN AND ABHISIT AND THE DEMOCRATS PROMISED THAT. They will now not be thinking about Thaksin, but thinking that Abhisit and the Democrats are not going to be around long, so ignore them from now on, and they cannot organise anything.

Abhisit has lost lots of face.

He is now a object of ridicule around the world as an "incompetent" leader of a country.

He has no choice now but to stand down and take on an 'inactive position" for some time.

Without the pretty face puppet on the strings to front the old ugly beast, what will the Democrats do next ?

Will Newin now kiss and make up with Thaksin and become best buddies again, now he see's the governments power weakening fast. One thing far too many people on here forget is that while the "uneducated and unwashed" mass population think politicians hate each other...........

they all are in fact good friends just "playing politics", and they have no enemies as they will throughout their career swing here and there depending on which way the wind is blowing. Politics is about portraying hate of the others, but without actually having it yourself.