spidermike007

the judical system acts independent from the government.

it is called separation of powers.

Wow. Wouldn't that be wonderful if it were actually the case. But, here in the LOS it is not. The government exercises control, and the judges respond. Do you actually think they have an independent judiciary here?

Rather than break it down for you, I will quote the following, from the international business anti corruption portal:

Thailand's judicial system functions at a very slow pace. According to Global Integrity 2007, appeals of criminal cases can take 10-15 years to be resolved, while appeals of civil cases can take 5-10 years to resolve. Such drawn-out procedures encourage the bribing of civil servants charged with overseeing regulations to speed up legal procedures and such practice is reportedly common. In Thailand´s Anti-Corruption Strategy 2010 released by the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC), the judicial system is described as weak and continuously manipulated by influential people, such as the Thai mafia and politicians. However, according to Transparency International Global Corruption Barometer 2010/2011, only a small percentage of the surveyed households who had contact with the judiciary in the past 12 months reported having paid a bribe.

The US Department of State 2011 reports that the government provides free legal advice to the poor; however, there were NGO reports of instances where these legal aid lawyers forced their clients to pay extra fees directly to them. According to human rights groups, the lack of progress in several high-profile cases involving alleged police and military abuse have diminished the public's trust in the justice system.

Business Corruption

According to the US Department of State 2012, Thailand's judiciary enforces property and contract rights effectively. However, it should be mentioned that the legal process is very lengthy. On a positive note, enforcement of bankruptcy judgments has been eased and streamlined since 2004.

Litigants sometimes influence judgments by extra-legal means, including bribes. According to the US Department of State 2011, although the judiciary generally is considered independent, it is subject to corruption and outside influences. Companies need to be aware that decisions by foreign courts are not recognised in Thai courts and thus cannot be enforced. Therefore, disputes that need to be settled in court and recognised in Thailand have to go through the Thai justice system.

Political Corruption

Corruption and self-interested behaviour is found throughout the political and judicial system. Global Integrity 2007states that judicial corruption is rampant and that it largely goes unpunished. Judges' decisions are not always impartial and may be influenced by personal relationships. This is supported by the US Department of State 2011, which reports that the judicial system is subject to external influences and corruption, and lacks progress in tackling high-profile cases such as police and military abuse of power. In addition, the Bertelsmann Foundation 2012 also states that the judiciary is corrupt to a certain extent. On a positive note, according to Freedom House 2012, with the new Constitution of 2007, the judicial independence is guaranteed. However, it remains to be seen whether a more impartial judiciary will result from it.

the judical system acts independent from the government. period.

If you think it is otherwise i recommend to study the law in thailand before making such claims.

You are correct.

However they seem to be doing what the government tells them to do.

The study of the law in Thailand must be a very frustrating experience, as the gap that exists in the real world in Thailand, could be possibly be further than the theory you are taught in the classroom. No matter the result, the penalties here seem to be some of the most lenient in the world. The courts here seem to have no teeth, the judges little courage, and the deterrent factor is nil, especially when it comes to traffic offenses, manslaughter committed while driving, etc. Of course, this applies much more in regard to how wealthy you are. Need I say more?

A suspended sentence would be an admission by the Thai courts that they are utterly impotent, and unable to offer any sort of justice for the nation. It would mean the entire justice is badly in need of reform, which the entire world knows anyway. The Thai judicial system is the laughing stock, of the planet. It is considered a monkey court. Anyone with money walks. Shame on them. Shame on the govt., for allowing this.

the judical system acts independent from the government.

it is called separation of powers.

Wow. Wouldn't that be wonderful if it were actually the case. But, here in the LOS it is not. The government exercises control, and the judges respond. Do you actually think they have an independent judiciary here?

Rather than break it down for you, I will quote the following, from the international business anti corruption portal:

Saudi Arabia is one of the most primitive societies on the planet. They have not progressed past the 14th century. They are the true enemy of the west, with their continued secret support of terrorism, and their radical Wahhabi faith. It may take hundreds of years to incorporate them into the world community. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Rubbish. Have you ever lived there?

And the West is just so wonderful, crime free and just. I bet the bankers in Islamic countries won't fiddle and cheat to inflate their bonuses, and then whine for bail outs and big pay offs. They know what the consequences would be.

Imagine if all the bent Western bankers had their assets seized - they'd know how the poor Cypriots are feeling.

Yes, paralysing someone seems barbaric. But that has been the consequence his victim has to live with.

Laws are meant to bring rule and deter the crime. The West has moved too far in the other way - criminals are shown sympathy and receive more help than victims. All to convince us we live in a just and modern, fair society. Perhaps others may not want the West's idea of paradise.

Thanks for the offer. But, I will decline. Living in that hellhole would be worse than a prison sentence. I have zero respect for their rule of Sharia law, zero respect for the Wahhabi faith, and zero respect for the family of King Abdullah. So, as you can see I am not a big fan of oppressive regimes who are populated by men with such low self esteem, that their women's faces cannot be seen by others, nor can they drive, go out on their own, hang out with their girlfriends in public, without a male escort, etc. Barbarism. 14th century nonsense. Neanderthal politics, and cro magnum maturity. No thanks. The west is not perfect, but women at least are treated like humans, and not chattel. Glad you like the place. Go on defending it all you want. The forum was not about how imperfect the west was, by the way.

It is obvious that the Wichit Police are very, very weak men. To not have charged this couple for their heinous dog yet is inexcusable. This dog must be put down, no matter how this is settled. One way or another. Period.

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I'm waiting for this verdict as it plays a part in determining my future travels; if he never spends any time in prison, I never travel to Thailand again!

All of Thailand waits with great suspense for your decision. We will all miss you dearly.

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My decision, son, is made; can't you read?!

Yes, my illiteracy often gets in the way of understanding the meaning of some of the posters here. Shame on me. And, speaking of literacy, what makes you think I am your son? Are we related? Or have you been watching too many movies lately?

A suspended sentence would be an admission by the Thai courts that they are utterly impotent, and unable to offer any sort of justice for the nation. It would mean the entire justice is badly in need of reform, which the entire world knows anyway. The Thai judicial system is the laughing stock, of the planet. It is considered a monkey court. Anyone with money walks. Shame on them. Shame on the govt., for allowing this.

Ok The foreigners were arrested and are being held , but what about the Thais? were they set free Or what?

And what other thai scammers are being pursued? How many jet ski scammers are spending time in jail? Zero. How many others? Justice is a good thing, but must be fair, and evenly applied. Not just applied to those who do not pay off the police.

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I'm waiting for this verdict as it plays a part in determining my future travels; if he never spends any time in prison, I never travel to Thailand again!

All of Thailand waits with great suspense for your decision. We will all miss you dearly.

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Reading this thread i find myself wondering what it will take before central government actually gets on the phone and orders the island to have our roads policed. Just how many more people will have to die innocently before these politicians make the decision to act because one things for sure...they must know how bad it is down here.

Just yesterday i was riding down the main road in bophut opposite Samui Palm Beach hotel when a guy behind the wheel of a beaten up pickup was coming towards me and just pulled out and forced me nearly onto the pavement. He clearly didn't give a t*ss as to my welfare. It was scary.

As the island gets busier and busier the cars and bikes will increase and the death toll will continue to rise. Very sad.

No. The central government and the Surat Thani government treat samui like a bastard child. Zero concern is given to samui. It is a great shame. They such the cash out of the island, and give almost nothing back. They could solve alot of the islands traffic issues nearly overnight, if they sent the Surat Thani police over here, to replace the nearly useless samui police. Strict enforcement of traffic laws. How about speeding tickets, with 10,000 baht fines, or immediate and permanent confiscation of the vehicle? Would the word get around? You begin with a deterrent, something that is almost unknown in samui, and nearly unknown in Thailand.

Mike Macarelli

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

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As if this were not enough...

There was another fatal accident in front of Rocky's Saturday last,

a week later after the two older gentlemen and the bartender.

A 19 year old young man was killed by a hit an run driver out front.

He was a guest in a wedding party that is about to take place there.

I can't imagine the horror for all involved and the sadness for the

bride and groom and the families involved.

This is a bad section of road where far too many go far too fast.

It is not physically deteriorated or badly lit, it is just at the mental vent,

for drivers who have driven too slow in town and now think they can go fast.

It's not karma or bad juju or what ever, just weird times come to visit.

I hope they catch the scum runaway driver.

And what do you think would happen if they caught him? Do you know there are no penalties in Thailand for hit and run? None. If there were, that would be known as law and order, which barely exists here. Happened to me. A thai guy hit my bike, on the side of the road, nearly destroyed it, and two others, and fled the scene. The police found him, as the man was known to everyone at the scene of the crime. The police acted as if fleeing the scene of a crime was normal. I insisted they take him to prison, and the police laughed, and were joking around with this insect, who they knew. They said as long as he paid damages, that was the end of it. In a civilized country, hit and run is serious. But, this is more evidence that Thailand is not a developed country, barely developing when it comes to traffic laws. Barely developing! So, if they catch the rodent who killed this woman, who was about to get married, and start her new life, no penalties can be expected. If he has cash, he will serve no time. If he has no cash, maybe 2 years? Thailand has little deterrent built into the justice system. The prison terms meted out here are some of the most lenient in the world. No deterrent, I repeat. One of the reasons why many of the drivers behave like insects and rodents. They are not afraid of getting caught, bit they would prefer not to, as it may be inconvenient after killing someone on the road. They flee without honor, or respect, like what would be expected of a 12 year old boy.

How about this for a start? Anytime we see a mini van driving carelessly (90% of the time), we call the hotel or agency listed on the van, and complain about the careless driving. Let them know that we think they may have a murder on their hands, if they maintain this driver. State a time of day, so they know which driver is likely to cause death, and injury. Could something like this campaign be effective? Worth a try?

Mike Macarelli

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

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Very sad story, my sympathies are with the victims and their families! I would like to use this tread to ask others of their experiences as pedestrians: We have a very busy and dangerous road just 100m away. Sometimes we need to walk along that road for a bit, sometimes it is dark already. Every time my wife and I have the same argument: I walk on the right side facing the traffic, she walks on the left with the traffic coming from behind her. She swears that "her wy" is how it should be done in Thailand , she also tells me should I ever have an accident walking "my way" (and survive of course) I would have to pay the driver as the drivers would not expect people walking towards them. Hmm. Has anyone else heard of this or had similar debates? Would be good to know. Stefan

Beyond ridiculous. Some thai people have absolutely no ability to reason. And you have to be able to call them on it. Walking into traffic is the most sensible thing you can do in Samui. It is the best defense against the horrific driving. You have a fighting chance. Deny the nonsense. Refuse it outright. Call them on it! Do your own thing, and never give in to a lack of reason, or intelligence. Yeah, like I would pay a driver for hitting me!

Mike Macarelli

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

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I've rented three places away from home while teaching. The normal practice was a security deposit and first month's rent up front and each month's rent in advance on the first of the month. The trick was getting the security deposit back I moved out.

Getting money back from the average Thai is tricky. Can be difficult. Would refer to your lease. There are a few honorable folks out there. Hopefully you are dealing with one of the 10%.

Mike Macarelli

Chaiyaphum, Thailand

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Yesterday I saw a kid who could not have been more than 8, driving a motorbike in downtown Pattaya with 2 passengers, one around 5 and the other a little older, and of course none with crash helmets. Darwinesque I thought !

This is a quote of a former Thai Minister of Transport:

"Thai people have different brains than other people. We are certainly able to speak and to write SMS on the

mobile phone while driving in cars and on motorcycles.'"

The guy put it to the extreme:

“A mandatory helmet law for Thais is not really necessary, because unlike other people they have a thicker skull, to protect them from injury!”

Seems like some skulls are so thick- they don't leave space for for a handfull of braincells.

Having people like this serving as ministers is a very, very dangerous position Yingluck is putting the Thai people in. If the minister of transport is so simple minded, and honestly believes this ridiculous drivel he is uttering, we are all in trouble. In most civilized countries he would have been fired for such irresponsible statements. Here it is life as usual. In many states in the US it is illegal to talk on a cell phone without a headset. Also illegal to send text messages while driving, as this is even more dangerous than talking on the phone. Is progress impossible here? Is the possibility of moving the country to a better, and safer place impossible here? Three pedestrians were moved down in two separate accidents in Samui, just this week. Is anything being done about it? Absolutely not.

Shame the Thai government does not understand that with a reasonable duty on wine, say 100%, they would have a thriving, multi billion dollar industry generating billions in duty revenue. Instead, in a sad but pathetic attempt to protect a handful of wineries who produce inferior wine, they have stifled an entire industry, hurt tourism, and denied the population one of life's truly great pleasures. The duty here is said to be 460%. One of the highest in the world. Such wisdom. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It's true that in theory the cumulative effect of duty, excise & VAT taxes makes wine prices impossibly high. But in practise the effective tax is something in the region of 100% due to underdeclaring.

If you take the retail price of a known brand in a supermarket like Villa or Foodland and do a reverse calculation to compare to the price to other countries, you will see that the tax component can't be anything like 400%.

This I heard from a wine importer here in Thailand. He told me about the 460%, and also told me it was the highest duty on wine in the free world. Beyond ridiculous. I realize everyone under declares, but that it forced upon them by such a silly, immature, and unproductive duty tariff. I see wine at some local restaurants, that cost $4 per bottle in Los Angeles, as the house wine for 1,450 per bottle. I walked into a wine store yesterday. They had a Chalone Pinot Noir for $2,850 per bottle, plus 17% VAT and service, since it was a hotel wine store. Service charge at the retail level? Is business practice here upside down, or what? That wine is $21 retail in LA. They also had a Seghesio Sonoma Zinfandel for 2,800 baht. That wine is $16 in LA. The best deal was a Chateauneuf du Pape, that I can get for $45 in LA. It was 4,500 here, plus 17%. Thailand could and would have a vibrant wine industry, with brisk retail sales, and wine bars all over the country, if the government would behave responsibly, and rid itself of manic fear of the outside world. I hear the owners of the anemic wineries up north lobbied a senator, and got him to pas the anti fareng wine bill, which imposed this stunningly ridiculous tariff. How much did he get paid? He should be serving time in prison, rather than in the Thai Senate.

Thanks for sharing that.

Interesting reading. 430 deaths over a 5 year period.

A lot of 'Accidental' and 'Illness'

about 2 austrialian die every week here in thailand

Im sure at least 1 a week on ko Samui,Thailands most dangerous place to visit,im sure.

Recently there have been a spate of pedestrians being mowed down by careless drivers on Samui. Some say as many as 60 traffic deaths a month on Samui alone. By far, the most dangerous place in Thailand, if you are within 5 meters of the death trap known as the ring road. Zero enforcement. The Samui police continue their reputation as the world's least effective crime fighting, and traffic control force, in the entire world. Congratulations to the Samui police captain, and the entire force for such a distinguished RECORD!

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Shame the Thai government does not understand that with a reasonable duty on wine, say 100%, they would have a thriving, multi billion dollar industry generating billions in duty revenue. Instead, in a sad but pathetic attempt to protect a handful of wineries who produce inferior wine, they have stifled an entire industry, hurt tourism, and denied the population one of life's truly great pleasures. The duty here is said to be 460%. One of the highest in the world. Such wisdom.

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Nice foundation work..... :-)I don't suppose they are using the same engineers that were used on this one in Shanghai. Not sure if it was that building , but in a photo of a giant Chinese building laying on its side, it showed the concrete foundation pilings were hollow and all snapped off. Will be curious what charges will be leveled against the Thai building department for looking the other way while this poorly designed and constructed building was being completed...Oh sorry just dreaming, time to get back to the real world !!

Does anybody of consequence EVER get charged with a crime in the LOS? When was the last time that happened? Is the judiciary truly as weak here as it appears? Feels like Somalia at times. No spine, no will, no real desire to arrest and try criminals who have money, or people who screw up, like this builder.

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as an individual no..

my advice...grow a pair..confront her and tell her if you find out she has done this your out the door, obviously has no respect for you and if she has done this what else has she been pilfering..?..your bank accounts ?

Great advice. If you are with one of the Thai women who refuse to communicate, or discuss issues or problems, you may be in for a rough ride. It took me some time to teach my gal how to communicate, but I threatened to kick her out several times, and she got it. You ALWAYS have to be willing to walk away, and/or kick her out the door, or you have lost control of the situation. I had several conversations about the multiple functions of the door.

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There is an incredibly simple solution to these kinds of problems. It is called law enforcement. Not something we see too often in the LOS. Of course it requires effective policing, a fair and competent judiciary, and a good penal system. Yes, I know we may still be 50 years away from that. But, if this little punk xxxxx got 10 years in jail, and his family was fined a million baht for this completely unnecessary crime, word might get around that for the first time since perhaps the Ayutthaya kingdom, Thailand is getting serious about fighting crime, and making worthless punks pay for their crimes.

I recently got an accident insurance/life insurance policy with ACE. Thai based. Under 14k baht per year, for under 60 years old. 500,000 baht in accident insurance, and it covers motorcycles. 5 million baht in term life insurance. Decided that was all I need. Takes care of me in the event of an accident, and takes care of my gal, in the event of my demise. Not too worried about the health insurance. Makes sense for me. A friend of mine did the research, and felt this was one of the best options out there.

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please wait so i can tune in the telly, as it will be something to watch for 5/6 mins until the yanks fry them

I am sorry to say America will not do anything. They will go to the UN and just tell the North Koreans they are sorry and give up.

If N. Korea actually fires an ICBM with a nuclear warhead at the US or S. Korea as they have flat-out said? You have to be kidding.

Exactly. This is a tiny minded man with a little bit of power and a huge wine cellar. Perhaps he had a few too many bottles of Lafite Rothschild. He is pretty much a non factor. Let him bluster. That is all it is. He must be a bit desperate to be yakking so much. Why would the news bureaus give this so much attention? One false move, one four day war, and he is finished.

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Another fabulously brilliant mathematician in the LOS. Perhaps a Nobel Peace Prize is in order for such a nimble mind.

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On the basis that you may actually be asking a serious question and not merely trolling and trying to alienate Chiang Mai based farangs, let me try and give you a more sensble answer:

Your basic criteria comprises "good climate, good infrastructure., sensible immigration requirements for expats, genuinely friendly locals, good local food, and low cost living", I siuggest to you that Chiang Mai has all those things, perhaps not in the abundance that you would like but they exist plentifully neverthless.

Climate: there's a two month window around March/April where the climate here is not good, for the rest of the year most of us find it quite pleasant and desirable.

Infrastucture: there is an international airport downtown that is easily accessible and highly convenient, the railway station proivdes good services to all points and there's a series of taxi companies and local transportation services which when combined make for an inexpensive transportation network. True we don't have a subway system or a sky train but hey!

sensible immigration: a retirement visa at age 50 costs THB1,900 a year and 45 minutes of your time, that is pretty sensible to me.

genuinely friendly locals: you reap what you sow, I like very much the attitude of most locals here by comparison to those in other parts of the country and I have absolutely no problem with them.

Local food: is varied and of excellent quality but if you don't like Thai food, it will not appeal.

low cost of living: I can eat for 100 baht if I so choose, my water bill is 160 baht a month, my electric bill is around 1,000 baht a month and deisel costs 30 baht a litre, enuf said I think.

But, perhaps your question is better answered by asking what things CM doesn't have that seem to exist in spades in other tourist destinations in Thailand!

Great post. So nice to see such intelligent, and articulate posts here. Nice contrast to some others, that are not as well thought out, or composed. Yes, I agree that Chiang Mai is quite a nice city. Lovely people. Great surroundings. Very progressive. If someone asks this kind of question, they have probably overextended their stay here. If it is not working, why not move on? For some of us, there is an inexplicable, and difficult to explain quality that the place has, that we love.

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They did not do the same with the BKK girl that killed a lot of people with her car on the tollway (seems they come down much harder here) But then she had a famous name.

Her name was not the deciding factor, more than likely. It was the millions of baht paid, to the right goombah. Thailand is not the only country where you can buy your way out of a crime. Just look at what 2 million dollars bought O. J. Simpson. Same here. Cash buys freedom, and denies justice.

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