cusanus

57 minutes ago, anwa said:

I have O-A visa from beginning(2013).Have make retirement extension every year.Can I change to spouse extension this year?Do I need insurance?

That's what we want to know, we're waiting on you or a few others to pass go, or not, and tell us what happens. Pretty sure you can change from O-A to O, but don't know exactly how it's done. The spouse option is more hassle so don't do it if you don't have to. Well, that's what the IOs tell me. 

39 minutes ago, Tracyb said:

Actually, today is Friday, November 1. No?

Supposed 2 b a joke. Not funny i guess. Anyway, remember the old Doonesbury comic? Two old dudes are sitting on a park bench with the fall wind stirring up all the leaves. The one fella says, "Windy day, isn't it?" The other fella, maybe you, says, "No, I do believe it's Thursday." The first fella replies, "Hey, so am I. How about we go for a pop?" 
Anyway, Halloween being the 31st is apt. Yes?

2 hours ago, Tracyb said:

Has anyone renewed their retirement extension without needing health insurance after October 31? 

You do realize it's Saturday? Or is Immigration open on Saturdays? Anyway, maybe the government has Halloween confused with April Fool's. Or maybe it doesn't! Yikes!

1 hour ago, NancyL said:

Yes, I do know a "different class of people" than yourself and "different hospitals", i.e. the government hospitals through my involvement in helping people in need through Lanna Care Net http://www.lannacarenet.org/what-we-do/  You said your cost for Thai insurance over the years would have been over $30,000.  I hope that means you've banked all that money in Thailand where someone could get at it if you're in a coma to pay the hospital.  Many Thai banks will release funds to pay hospital bills for ongoing treatment even if the customer can't authorize the transaction; foreign banks won't, of course. People in comas, with compromised breathing, etc usually can't travel back to their home countries for treatment.  It's amazing how fast a hale and hearty older person can go from being completely fit and seemingly healthy to frail and needy after an accident or major health event.  

Yes, indeedy, I've all that taken care of far better than you think. You're not the smartest cookie in the jar, believe it or not. By the way, I was licensed in life and health for 13 years and understand the way the game is played and also the value of risks, even far better than that because I had eight years university math and science (probability theorem of my own http://foosresearch.appspot.com, if you have Adobe Flash). Now, let me explain something else. I risked a bullet in Vietnam just to pay for those degrees while I very nearly starved and worked like a dog at least 14 hours a day. A year after I graduated I was hit with a major illness that put me in a hospital for seven days. While there, I was flatly denied any kind of diagnostics or even the chance to speak to a doctor while the MDs filled their pockets with insurance money. The flap cost me my career, my house and everything and rendered my degrees useless. I should have known better really, because of childhood experiences with doctors.  Jump ahead to ten years ago when I accidentally ate a plate of poisonous mushrooms after eight others in the village had died from them. My Thai neighbors dragged me off the lawn to the hospital, where the doctors asked me why I wouldn't let them "help" me. Well, honestly, I didn't know if I wouldn't end up with someone else's liver and a three million baht tab. What I did know was that the mortality rate from mushroom poisoning is three times in the US what it is in other countries that used treatments of large doses of vitamin C, ALA and silymarin, so I walked to the nearest drug store with a blood pressure of 55/54 and bought a pile of those. I also knew that if I made it through the next ten days that I was good, and if I didn't, well there's a better life after this one for some of us, so it's a risk I can take.  Not many would miss my passing. I might add that for many reasons, Thai medicine is better, but I still can't trust it. Seriously, premiums large enough to cover a worst case scenario far exceeds anyone's resources, yours or mine included.

Now, the friend I referenced was too frail to walk by herself when I brought her here. If I can't get her out of a coma and back to Medicare before she runs out of money, that 400,000 baht insurance coverage will have run dry a long, long time ago. If the doctor's can't get her started well enough for me to get her on the plane, that's a risk they can safely assume. Meanwhile, yeah, sure, go ahead and have her pay 107,000 baht / year as the article estimates, meaning that the money will run out that much faster and the doctors will be that much short in the end. 400,000 baht won't save her, and yet the premium for four or five million baht insurance would exceed her income and either leave her without food to eat or drain her account far faster than her life expectancy.  All that the insurance accomplishes is that either the family or the doctors are stuck for the amount of the premiums in the end. It WILL NEVER cover the medical bills. That's eight years university math talking, but 1+1=2 will still get you there. 

2 hours ago, NancyL said:

I know dozens of people who have left a hospital "holding the bag".  I agree with the comments that tourists and seasonal "snowbird" visitors should have health insurance too.  I don't understand why someone would retire to Thailand and not think about how they were going to cover major health crises -- yes plural.  Bills in excess of 1 million baht are more common than you think.  It's just that the health insurance plans being shoved down our throats are ones that address the real problem.

Wow! Well, you definitely know a different class of people than myself, and different hospitals than the ones where my friend had surgeries years ago and wasn't allowed to leave until the bill was paid. Anyway, that was my point, wasn't it, that there isn't any data that we can be sure is on the level, not yours or mine, only that anybody in my class will not come to retire and dump everything they've got if they have to buy Thai insurance. What makes you think that people who don't have Thai insurance haven't thought this through, really, that's quite a judgment call? Should I take it personally? My cost for Thai insurance over 15 years would be more than $30,000 while all I've had to pay so far is about $150. But oh, God, who knows when I'll have a coronary and not be able to pay up (a million baht really isn't that tough for me to grub up)? My friend in your eyes is also irresponsible, though covered far better through Medicare. Yes, Medicare doesn't pay in Thailand, but is she not allowed to return to the states and collect on her investment? A lot of us didn't come to Thailand unprepared with empty pockets and heads. We have plans and back up plans that do not include ripping off the Thai medical system, only bringing everything we've earned over a lifetime and leaving it here. 

Oh, yeah, I posted the article you were asking about in an earlier post, but this should get you there:http://bit.ly/2BYdPZ2

3 hours ago, CMBob said:

(3)  I presume...but obviously don't know...that the Thai insurance companies lobbied for the new rule as they (and the few elite Thais who own those companies) are the ones who'll make some money on the new scheme.

Without question, and certainly why the issue is so clouded with uncertainty. Maybe I'm not typical, but I would never have come to Thailand 15 years ago if I'd had to factor that in. I've not paid much into health care, well under 5,000 baht, but I've pulled roughly 15 million baht into the Thai economy. I know quite a few like me, but never met anyone who left a hospital holding the bag. In my mathematician mind, the Thai government would be shooting Thailand in the foot for billions of bahts if this requirement is enforced. Of course, none of us has access to the statistics that could answer that question with any certainty. It's no more likely the Thai government does either, so what you have is an insurance lobby picking at the military mind. At this point, many would have little choice but to put up with it, and we will, but it won't help Thailand (IMHEO).   

10 hours ago, Hugh Jarse said:

Read the latest edition of The Phuket Gazette as this ruling for health cover is dead in a ditch.

Well, delayed at least, and we most earnestly hope dead. You mean this: https://www.thephuketnews.com/health-check-phuket-immigration-confirms-mandatory-health-insurance-for-o-a-retirement-visas-not-in-force-72365.php#VVzZQPvi4qeHG1L7.97
I was hoping that Medicare in the US would fill any requirement, but it doesn't pay in Thailand. That's what I want to know! My friend has been paying about $1500 a year to keep her Medicare insurance so she could return to the states in case of a major emergency. Seems kind of strange that she wasn't allowed to leave either hospital after two major surgeries ten years ago until her bill was paid, so I don't understand how the medical system has been getting stuck. Perhaps the health insurance requirement isn't such a bad idea, but if the fees go over 100,000 baht at age 70, surely much more later, then that isn't a good deal at all. Thankfully, I'm in darned good health and well insured, but 1,000% sure I'll never run up a medical bill that I couldn't pay out of pocket if I had to and would most likely find a way to die before that happened. 

9 hours ago, CMBob said:

To those affected by the new ruling, yes.  

Not much clarity here. Hopefully it will not be my friend or any non Os

1 hour ago, CMBob said:

The first article you quote starts out:  "Starting Oct. 31, foreigners over 50 entering the country with an O-A visa must show that they have valid health insurance covering their period of stay, deputy public health minister Sathit Pitutecha said."  That clearly will be the rule for people who obtain an O-A visa after October 31, 2019 (or, perhaps, for those who obtained an 0-A visa prior to November 1, 2019, and first entered Thailand after October 31st, 2019).  I was referring to people already here before November 1, 2019, who are here on an O-A visa and are either going to grab a second year (by, let's say, hopping over to Burma and back) or who, at the end of their first or second year, apply for an extension based on retirement or marriage.  Do you happen to see anything promulgated by Immigration (Police) that indicates there will be any retroactive application of the new insurance rule to those people?  I'm not saying 100% that it won't happen (although, for people grabbing onto their second year by a border hop, it defies understanding how that will be enforced....is airport or border-crossing Immigration going to say you can't come in or get your second year without showing your new long-stay insurance?) but I've seen nothing that says it will happen to those already here prior to November 1, 2019.  

What we agree on is that the new rule is clear that no Thai embassy/consulate in another country will apparently issue an 0-A visa to one of their citizens after October 31st unless the citizen provides as part of their application proof of the new "long-stay" insurance.  Starting next week, perhaps we might start getting reports from people who have already been here on an O-A visa and we'll start to understand if any retroactive application is applied for those seeking extensions within Thailand.

If you read a little farther, the official states clearly that it will apply to both those entering AND those seeking an extension. Right? 

39 minutes ago, CMBob said:

I take it you believe that people holding an O-A visa issued before November 1, 2019, have to obtain the insurance to obtain something (which I would guess would be an extension based on retirement or marriage given the "second" year of the O-A visa is only obtained by doing a re-entry into the country).  Presuming that's what you're saying or suggesting, why do you believe that?

Maybe she read this: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2019/10/10/health-insurance-will-be-mandatory-for-retiree-visa-holders/. A friend of mine with an O-A has renewed twice and has never had to leave the country, so I don't believe you've got that one right.  Then there's this one: https://www.ttrweekly.com/site/2019/05/hefty-insurance-hovers-over-thai-visa/

5 minutes ago, amexpat said:

90 Days Online

but last three days can't get past the first page then the msg to see immigration office.

That's what you'll see if you're within the last 7 days before the due date or more than 15. Not exactly sure what the cutoff is. Also, I suspect there has to be someone on the other end, so holidays or after hours could cause a problem. If you've replaced your passport that would also do it. 

19 hours ago, placnx said:

The passbook had only monthly entries for transactions for Jul/Aug since I failed to update during those months, so the bank's 3-month printout was essential to show activity detail.

I've never had a printout from the bank or copies of the bankbook. Last time I did my extension the IO simply scanned the last several pages of my book right there. Next time I will take a copy, though. 

15 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

It is against the law to take photographs inside government buildings with numerous signs at CM Imm telling you so.

Before you ask, no I do not have a photo to prove it, see above

My last few posts were tongue in cheek, but I guess that wasn't very obvious. The farang in question was apparently able to read the sign even though in Thai, the other fellow overheard a phone conversation, so I guess we're toast. Have had real trouble finding a use for my first cell phone, but took a photo of the directions for my upcoming hospital cataract surgery (insured) and it was translated almost flawlessly by Google. 

13 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Einstein here.  Who is panicking?  I just posted something I observed at CNX Immigration.  Since those affected by the new police order are foreigners I thought(big mistake) an English copy would be logical(mistake #2).  TIT.

Touchy touchy. Everyone has a cell phone these days, just take a pic with Google Translate and there ya go. If you can read Thai, you are indeed an Einstein. Was it nailed to the wall really? 8 penny, 16 or what? Oh, it wasn't you who said nailed, I know. I'll be very unhappy if my friend who arrived three years ago has to suddenly fork over for insurance, super unhappy if the lack of an A doesn't get me off the hook. Meanwhile, this subject has been going round and round for six months so I'm just going to leave it in the hold box. If we gotta pay, then we gotta pay, but if this had been the rule 15 years ago I'd have gone elsewhere and dumped the equivalent of 9 million baht there. Unfortunately, it's going to be damn hard to pull up stakes now, especially with the statisticians predicting my death in seven years. Einstein was a physicist, not a mathematician, but I'm a mathematician, unfortunately, and the physicists are stuck in a black hole. One thing I recall is a friend having two major surgeries. She wasn't allowed to leave the hospital until the bill was paid. Myself, in nearly 15 years if I'd paid my own medical bills it would amount to less than $3,000 baht, unless you count dental since my implants and crowns cost 300,000 baht, but I paid for them happily out of my own pocket, thank you. Meanwhile, the doctors won't get their mitts on me and I'll make sure I subtract the costs of any health insurance from the amount I leave behind. 

9 minutes ago, Mapguy said:

Nailed to the wall only in Thai or not, if you read the official documents, anyone who thinks that an extension of stay as done routinely before following an original entry via NON-OA visa prior to 31 October 2019 makes them exempt after 31 October from having 40/400 health insurance from an officially authorized TGIA company is a wishful thinker.

Seems I was the first to bring this up about six months back due to a news article when the thing was supposed to take effect prior to my friends second O-A extension in July. Now, way down the road, the panic is over a telephone call, then a notice in Thai posted at Immigration, all interpreted by guys who are definitely not Einsteins. It makes worthy discussion, but seems that we need to kick back and see what actually happens. I'm really curious about forcing insurance on those totally insured through Thai spouses already. I don't want to believe any of it, but... 

9 minutes ago, CMBob said:

As far as I'm concerned, the only worry we (you, hubby, myself, and many others) might have in the future is if/when Thai authorities apply a health insurance requirement to those obtaining annual extensions in-country.  So far, there's no rule saying that will happen.

Many of us are insured through a Thai spouse already, so paying expensive premium payments on top of that would be a real waste, not to mention some of us prefer to die a natural death. You never know, though. (Glad I didn't move to Ecuador, expat bank accounts have been seized in the past and it isn't looking good again.) 

2 hours ago, McTavish said:

Just happened to be chatting with the manager of a well known visa service and the insurance subject came up as a result of phone call rec'd.  Seems they interpret the new rules as to apply for all retirement extensions.

Don't believe it.

Attached is procedure for 90 day online reporting. Again, most of us have no trouble with this, but there are those who do. Be sure to do it at least 7 days before due date and less than 15 days, best during working hours and non holidays. It doesn't hurt to give it a test anytime since if it is going to fail it will do so on the first page of inputs and you can still abort on the 2nd page. There are also a few who simply cannot do online, possibly because they changed passport numbers since the last arrival card, we aren't sure. Included is the weblink for skipping steps one and two and the immigration home page for directly going to the 90 day online form which is HERE for your convenience: http://bit.ly/2J4tMB8
 

90DayInstructions.pdf

3 hours ago, Vacuum said:

Don't bother with that. The IO will put a large stamp on all the copies, where you'll have to make your signature.

That's a new one on me. Every visit since 2005 they've required me to SIGN every copy, never had the benefit of a stamp like that, though they do make a lot of stamps and seem to get a kick out of it.

3 hours ago, davehowden said:

Thank you. As I don't bother to update my passbook when I make an ATM withdrawal/ Transferwise deposit it shows an amalgamated balance the next time I do do an update. I would have thought a 12 months statement from the bank showing every transaction would have bee more useful, but then that's just my logic.

This is amalgamated government, not logic. You really should update your passbook once a month or more, anyway.  

29 minutes ago, Shouldhaveknownbetter said:

Need some help please.  I went to the visa agent to get an extension of my retirement visa.  I brought a printout of my Bangkok bank account showing all my international transfers.  The agent said the printout was not enough and I needed a bank letter and a Social Security letter.  I went to my Bangkok Bank in Maejo and they told me they do not give bank letters as requested by immigration they do not have the program.  Question to members, what Bangkok Branch did you use to get that letter?

These days bank letters are always required. I've always gotten mine at the Hang Dong intersection BIg C branch, no hassle. Would guess any branch in Chiang Mai would do it.

5 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

The improvement in waiting time is due to the mass exodus of western expats fed up with immigrations latest restrictions

Not a serious problem for many of us, but I doubt I could have come to Thailand 14 years ago if they were that picky. My guess is that it will hurt Thailand more than it will help, but might help us long timers more than it hurts. There are a few other things about Thailand that may end up forcing me to leave, but hopefully not because I've been really happy here. 

16 minutes ago, Konini said:

Two copies?  Sounds like they may be starting to be a bit difficult again, asking for things people probably won't have.  I hope not, things have been so much better since Big Joke shook things up.

Don't believe he meant two copies. Helped a friend with her extension in June. One copy. Just like mine in January, but I do make a complete set of the passport that includes TM30 and last 90 day as they are required two be stapled in. 

1 hour ago, Konini said:

It's a bit more complicated I'm afraid.  They haven't been accepting the letter from the embassy  for about 4 years, you've been a bit lucky to get away with it.  ...

 

When the changes came in, it was a 3 stage process of seemingly mindless bureaucracy.  Firstly get a copy of your marriage certificate and have it certified by the FCO.  This is all done online with a credit card, it took about 3 days.  The mailing address I gave them for it was for the Thai embassy in London, and I sent them an email letting them know that it was coming and that I needed it to be certified and gave my credit card number for the fee, about GPB10 I think, and I asked them to mail it to my mother's address.  No problems at all, all very easy.  When I finally got to see the certificate, it was a full print out of the certificate, identical to the one I have, and on the back it was certified by the FCO, and a second stamp certifying that the FCO certification was genuine from the Thai embassy.  This was always OK to use in UK, I have provided a copy of this every year, didn't need to use the marriage certificate in Thailand so I didn't bother with the 3rd and final step; having the Thai embassy (certified) certification certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.  This was surprisingly easy, go to office, clearly marked and easy to find in a maze of government offices, show passport, couple of photocopies of it, fill in a form, pay (I think) 200 baht and come back the following day to pick it up.  Now I can legally use the marriage certificate, complete with 3 certification stamps, here in Thailand.

 

I would suggest that you send an email to the Thai embassy in London just to let them know what you are going to do, then get the certified copy from the FCO sent to them.  I would further suggest that you have the Thai embassy mail the certified copy to someone in UK and have them send it to you here registered mail if the embassy won't do registered post for international mail - they probably do, asking the question can be the opener for starting a conversation about this with them.

 

Then, as I said, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 200 baht and done.  It's actually far less painful than I imagined it would be.

 

EDIT:  The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is in the government complex at Chiang Puak

You call that eezy peezy? Now I know I have Alzheimer's. God help me. What is an FCO?

40 minutes ago, chingmai331 said:

I went last December to apply for my one-year retirement extension.  Was told by on IO lady how well dressed i was that morning. She liked my pink striped shirt, collared and well-pressed. But not my shirt, nor my shiny shoes and body perfume, had any effect on my application, since she gave me only 30 days.

A passport, proof of income, etc? That might help.