ChiangMaiFun

Reading though this thread, I see that 2011 is starting off with a tour through the moronosphere.

truth is truth dude - I know 100s of farangs and we all know why we are here - guess your here to read the Ramakien everynight?

I know this is a long shot, but is there any chance we can agree that Thai women can't be characterized with simple stereotypes like the arrogant "I don't do farang" socialites and the shameless "anything for money" poor girls?

Nah, probably not. After all, the appeal of stereotypes is that they relieve people of the need to treat other people as individuals and (god forbid!) think before judging.

if they stopped acting like that people wouldn't see them that way would they? it's only a generalisation but it is pretty prevalant

I don't know - I think this is actually a good idea. The report may sound political but in real terms is quite timely, able to be implemented and no reason it should not work. I think Abhisit is hitting his stride now all the 'coloured' issues are simmering. Give him his head and let him run and see what results he can come up with. I like they way it's going.

Also, special pay and incentives will be given to teachers who perform well in their job.

And- of course- some more incredible changes for foreigners regarding visa and work permit. :jap:

Wouldn,t it be wonderful if the authorities eased off the resrictions-regarding visa runs--it,s not asking for much, Thailand you will benefit no end encourageing people here to stay and spend, The reiremment thing, the 0 visa, have long stay visa for retired people. Pensions are coming in, Just because you DUMP 800,000 in the bank, you qualify--FOR WHAT--if you are not near immigration you still have to report ,as if you were on remand. Cat-0 if you dont go back to your country-and get the year visa--its a run to (laos) example---every 90 days-3 pages passport used, apart from anyother trips-hence 10 year passport lasts 3yearsor so.AND its now Hong Kong for a new one--or spend 60,000 bht plus to go back to the u.k. I f they would only sit down and work out the benefits, spending a pension-here 40,000 baht-p/month x 12- say 500,000.baht. a year---compare that to the average tourist say 2 times a year. under 200,000 baht--some a lot less. WHO is worth more looking after--government STUDY it -your money isn,t it ??????????? come on top man you have a hell of a lot to sort out HERE, good luck.. I think your doing all you can with what power you have. taking all the measures your putting forward-you HAVE to have the people under you GOOD people-if not... ALL will be pointless-and a waste of valuable revenue.

I do agree reform would be helpful - also get rid of that stupid 90 day reporting - what a waste of time and waste of immigration staffs time

Wheat grass is supposed to be packed full of good stuff for the body. I'll leave it to Wikipedia to explain, which will do a much better job than I: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Wheatgrass

oh right thanks... better stop the order for the wine then... on second thoughts maybe not cheers

IMO location is the issue for this mall. The only reason I would go once in a while to Emporium for example is because it is right next to a Skytrain station. If not I wouldn't bother. Those type of malls need to be in a good location.

Surely they could have found a better location? Somewhere between the rail station and night bazaar. This one is just too far away; they'll have to provide bus service or free shuttle.

There's another mall opening soon BTW, near Kad Suan Kaew.

skytrain station??????? did I miss the building of a skytrain here?

none of the packaged 'blu ray' discs I have seen here are 'real' blu ray discs and play as an ordinary disc - all from Mae sai

so i asked one pantip plaza shop 'why are you selling this in blu ray packaging when it's not blu ray'?

very Thai answer (to a stupid farang question) 'they copied it from a blu ray original so it's blu ray na'

~

If you have a re-entry permit, upon arrival at the airport get in the line of returning Thais NOT the line all the tourists are in. The immigration officer in that line will automatically search for your re-entry permit and stamp it appropriately.

~

won't they ask you to move out of this line? I have seen farang go on this line before and they are always re-directed

Wheat-grass juice, but it is not all that cheap anymore.

wheat grass juice? am i missing something?

Most of the above comments are clearly made by the sexpat community. Get out of your narrow minded small circles.

I doubt that any of the above posters actually socialize on a daily basis with any upper middle class or social elite in CM.

A woman that studies abroad is no longer a "good girl". What a completely ignorant comment.

PJclark. Just admitting that you have talked to a hooker leaves you out of any social circle that I know of.

The 'good ones' don't date foreigners (single, never been married, never had children or abortions, educated in Thailand).

I could give you a list of family names but you probably wouldn't know them as you don't associate in the right circles.

I assure you that there are many that do. They just don't date the sex pat losers that you seem to associate with and are probably one yourself.

Trust me that there are plenty of women here in Thailand that don't think of foreigners as ATM. Matter of fact some of my female friends and I were talking recently about their belief that most of the foreigners in Thailand are middle class and most seem to be labor class in their own countries.

As for educational standards. Tell me what Thai University that you went to and compare it to what Western University. I went to Chula and I also went to Cornell in the states. I tell you that Cornell does have a higher caliber of professors but I didn't have a problem going to Cornell after Chula. I was prepared.

You sound like another arrogant westerner that really knows jack all.

not sure where all this 'sex pat loser' stuff is coming from? take away the freely available sex here and 90% of farangs would leave for sure! most don't come here for the culture and most Thai girls who go with farangs don't because they love white skin or the Bealtles it's because they see security etc. and why not? it's an exchange - everything in life is an exchange.

I love my sex life here but would not call myself a 'sex pat loser' having dated professional (no not that type of professional!) girls here for the last few years. I see my self as a 'winner' I know many farangs back in 'farangland' who would love to live the life here where the sun always shines, the living is cheap and the girls more than willing - take those three things away and the farangs would leave in droves. I could not care less at mixing in hiso circles - most of it is what comes out of a kawais toot.

Yesterday morning on the way to work in Phuket, a minivan full of people flew past me, I was doing 100 kph and it had just been raining lightly. Came up on this van a few minutes later upside down in the ditch, flattened and smoking. Very serious looking accident. Will these people never learn. It makes me question the intelligence of people here!

... low intelligence is a valid question pmgthailand ... it could explain much of what we see here and try to rationalize as "translation problems", or "cultural differences".

... low intelligence quotients (IQs) are a chronic national health problem Thailand (due to nationwide lack of dietary iodine, necessary for brain development) ... it is long known by the UN, but only recently getting Thai government's attention ... the Thai Ministry of Health documented and published the results of their own nationwide, statistically relevant surveys:

1. Thai average IQ is 91;
2. 8.5% of Thais tested scored at or below 70 (mentally retarded); in areas of the north, the degree of mental retardation soared as high as 16.5% of the population;
3. Approximately 16.5% of the Thai population scores between 70 and 75.

... the sickening conclusion is that fully 25% of the Thai population is either mentally retarded, or within 5 points of mentally retarded.

... no amount of education can solve for that ... at low IQ levels, basic common judgment is not possible... perhaps that is why many perceive Thailand as a nation of children.

Doesn't surprise me at all... I am certainly in the last catagory of perceiving many Thais as twelve year olds - hence the rich elites ease in manipulation. It really odd but it seems to be so deep within the Thai make-up I'm not sure it can ever be changed - even simple thing like 'do you know about the second world war'? meets with only a hint of recognition that there is world outside of Thailand.

New Year Gift? how about an election? jeeze...

Patience ... there'll be one by the end of the year.

yes I was being slightly playful... but it would have been nice to make the announcement - and also announce international moderators! now that would have really been a great New Years Gift - to the whole country - and whoever wins... wins - what a unifying influence that would have but it won't happen... alas...

here's my (cynical) take:

1. remember you are a walking ATM

2. don't forget that if you cannot get a girl in your own country - you can here - but at a price!

3. Thais view relationships in a more 'practical way' than farangs - what's love got to do with it? (apologies Tina)

4. you are number 10 behind:

their family

their bank account

their gik

their second gik

their friends

their dog

their car

their job

their clothes

and then maybe you (if you find a good one)

and remember the translation problem?

they say/it means

honey I miss you / can i have some money

you are the only one for me / apart from my gik

where have you been honey / I need money

i love you / i love your bank account

you are so handsome / i am short of cash

honey can i bring a friend / can you pay for both of us

i'm feeling sick and cannot come tonight / my gik is visiting town

i have never met anyone like you before / none of my giks have ever had any money

I only like farangs / only they have money

I broken heart / and broken bank account

A bit tongue in cheek but you get the drift? everything here is an 'exchange' i know many farangs who are happy with their Thai girl - often 20 or 30 years apart... must be love right? well it may be... love Thai style

New Year Gift? how about an election? jeeze...

The troubles Northern Ireland are a terrible comparison, considering they happened over many years. Should the Thai army have waited that long?

And the protests had been going on for how many weeks? It was long known that there was a small armed element, but this armed element wasn't dealt with, in the several weeks prior to April 10, at all. Thus we ended up with a situation which dragged on for several more weeks and with all the associated carnage.

The protest had been going for 4 weeks. There was NO sign of an armed element prior to April 10.

In no respects was Northern Ireland a good comparison. The troubles in Northern Ireland were going on from the 1960's. The police had years to work out who the trouble makers were. Most of the violence wasn't during any protest. Most of the troubles and violence in Northern Ireland was between the Unionists and the Nationalists. They were fighting and killing each other more than the police/army.

Thailand could learn a lot. But it took Northern Ireland nearly 30 years to get there.

The red shirts talk about democracy, but they will only accept it if it goes their way. The red shirt leaders a no different to the "Bangkok elite". The red shirts don't want change. They just want their people in power.

(modified my first quote because too many quotes - don't want the Quote Nazi to complain)

Simon is right that there were armed elements involved with many protests in NI though. But yeah, UK forces had it worked out much better (generally) than Thai troops. Anyway, I agree, obviously the solution came from compromise and addressing the genuine grievances.

Anyway, on yr last point about red shirt leaders, I'd agree, but not all of them. The ones that are close to Thaksin, particularly Jatuporn and Nattawud. Although I think even their interests are confused between Thaksin & democracy. Some red shirt leaders are obviously there for reasons little to do with Thaksin and more because of their frustration that democratic processes were subverted, they want genuine democracy and most red shirt theory about the power structure etc comes from this group. The latter group includes Thida, Dr Weng, Sombat, Jaran etc. But I don't think they have much power within the red shirts even now, other leaders had more influence, even though they might even have been outnumbered, due to their proximity to Thaksin, but as I said it's changing... gradually.

good post - intelligent and well thought out - let's forget the NI connection as it's only partly relevant. The issue is that the reds cause IS linked to Thaksin but there are many, many who can see the core issues are nothing to do with Thaksin at all - apart from on TV where there are many, many who cannot see it at all - which is bizarre and called 'blinkered' I believe. I, too, believe that it is the frustration at the lack of transparent democracy that is fuelling this fire - and it hasn't gone out and will not until a fair and just election process takes place (if, indeeed, it can take place at all).

another sensible post - well done! my view is that if the authorities had dealt with the yellow airport take-over in the same way there could well have been violence there too - but they just sat back and had the future deputy PM go and tell them what a great job they were doing! talk about double standards! what's done is done - we now need an election so the people can actually CHOOSE their government not have it pushed on them due to the last elected government being 'banned' and skulduggery amongst turncoat MP's who jump parties despite being elected on a different platform - and no i don't agree with this happening in other country's either.

I'll just do a cut and paste from responses to a thousand other posts like this over the months.

The yellow shirts were there for 9 days, not two months like the red shirts.

Can you name one MP from either side that hasn't been chosen by the people?

The "last elected government" was made up of several parties of elected MPs. A couple of them were disbanded for cheating, and by-elections were held to replace the banned MPs.

The "turncoat MPs who jumped parties" were all elected by the people. One of those turncoat MPs was reelected at a recent by-election.

After a major 'event' like that tragedy down in Krung Thep the people need to give the PM a mandate - he has none. Giving the post of DPM to someone who encourages and promotes illegal protests does not encourage peace and reconcilliation does it?

and BTW (referring to your little comment at the bottom of your posts) you can't have 200% of anything as 100% is max! (so there)

Storming parliament and Thaicom is lack of violence?

At the expense of going over old discussions again, I always made it clear that I was opposed to the disruption caused by the protests. But there was very little violence or serious injury at either 'event'. If I remember correctly, a soldier was shot dead near Thaicom, which was first attributed to friendly fire but then changed to 'don't know'. Compare and contrast with the violence, injuries and deaths post April 10.

In most western protests that I can remember, if the protesters started invading buildings the riot police usually moved in. Actually, they would have moved in if there was even an attempt to storm a building. And I can't think of one other "peaceful protest" where the protesters shot at police or threw grenades.

Because that situation of being attacked by a small number of armed insurgent would never be allowed to grow from incubation, it would be caught early.

The April dispersal consisted of the army standing in a line with their shields and batons and the protesters listening to music ... until someone started shooting and grenades were thrown. It hardly gives anyone a chance to do careful intel and surveillance. And then in May, there wasn't much chance to get in amongst the protesters and interview people.

The troubles Northern Ireland are a terrible comparison, considering they happened over many years. Should the Thai army have waited that long?

edit: oops. forgot the <snip>. can't do that when I'm quoting the Quote Nazi

And the protests had been going on for how many weeks? It was long known that there was a small armed element, but this armed element wasn't dealt with, in the several weeks prior to April 10, at all. Thus we ended up with a situation which dragged on for several more weeks and with all the associated carnage.

Whilst the troubles in NI are not a perfect comparison (is there such a thing?), in some respects, they are an excellent one: The problems in NI were far more deeply rooted, going back several centuries. The British security forces were involved on an intense level for decades, sustaining many, many deaths and serious injuries yet showing restraint and intelligent targeted responses to threats except on one tragic day. And at the end of it all, we had genuine reconciliation, with former enemies working together in government. Thailand could learn much from this example, and it's aspirations to becoming a modern first world democracy would be accelerated greatly.

another sensible post - well done! my view is that if the authorities had dealt with the yellow airport take-over in the same way there could well have been violence there too - but they just sat back and had the future deputy PM go and tell them what a great job they were doing! talk about double standards! what's done is done - we now need an election so the people can actually CHOOSE their government not have it pushed on them due to the last elected government being 'banned' and skulduggery amongst turncoat MP's who jump parties despite being elected on a different platform - and no i don't agree with this happening in other country's either.

I don't disagree... we only differ on the scale of the reaction and lack of discipline by some of the soldiers - shooting people in the head whilst being interviewed is hardly the sign of a developed democracy.

I didn't know it had been confirmed who shot Khattiya Sawasdiphol in the head?

I figured it was someone in the army, but could have just as well been someone else (UDD, PAD, desenchanted member of the public, CIA, KGB)... plenty of debate about this.

If I missed the identification of his shooter in the news, I apologise!

no we are not 100% certain - but we are not 100% the Pope is Catholic but all the evidence points to it? if not an actual soldier he/she must have been a darned good shot!

Again, not all the evidence does point to it though.

And there are even arguments against it being a good shot! But regardless of whether it was a good shot or not, that discounts none of the parenthisised examples above of who it could have been.

And to restate, it is my suspicion that this was an army hit... but it's just a suspicion.

(Removed the 2 posts about Santa Claus because TV won't allow many posts - why is this?)

you mean they were aiming for the reporter and 'accidently' hit the guy? I'm being tongue in cheek but I'm more likely to believe in Lord Lucan pulling the trigger than that one!

I don't disagree... we only differ on the scale of the reaction and lack of discipline by some of the soldiers - shooting people in the head whilst being interviewed is hardly the sign of a developed democracy.

I didn't know it had been confirmed who shot Khattiya Sawasdiphol in the head?

I figured it was someone in the army, but could have just as well been someone else (UDD, PAD, desenchanted member of the public, CIA, KGB)... plenty of debate about this.

If I missed the identification of his shooter in the news, I apologise!

whoever it was it was not Santa! use some common sense please

Well, I agree it was not Santa. But I don't agree that it was definitely a soldier, because it might not have been.

no we are not 100% certain - but we are not 100% the Pope is Catholic but all the evidence points to it? if not an actual soldier he/she must have been a darned good shot!

I don't disagree... we only differ on the scale of the reaction and lack of discipline by some of the soldiers - shooting people in the head whilst being interviewed is hardly the sign of a developed democracy.

I didn't know it had been confirmed who shot Khattiya Sawasdiphol in the head?

I figured it was someone in the army, but could have just as well been someone else (UDD, PAD, desenchanted member of the public, CIA, KGB)... plenty of debate about this.

If I missed the identification of his shooter in the news, I apologise!

whoever it was it was not Santa! use some common sense please

I totally agree - and have posted before - that the reds 'threw it away' and should have walked and the elections would have been in Nov - a stupid, stupid decision. But as for your other observations I cannot concur - anyway let the people decide? hold an election... and I don't like being called 'you people' I am not a red nor a Thaksin supporter but sympathise with the issues the reds raised (i.e. the poor etc.). It stinks that the yellows were allowed to hold the country hostage and nothing was done - now one of their spokesmen is deputy PM! go figuer why people are frustrated!

Elections will be held sometime in 2011. Then the people will decide. I think I know what they will decide. (a slight Democrat popular vote majority, a slight PTP MP majority, and a significant increase in the MP count of BJT, but the return of a democrat led coalition with Abhisit as PM) The "you people" are anyone who lumps the red/black violence, and the miltary response in the same "both are bad" category. One was created with malicious intent, the other was a response to protect the public - they are two separate moral issues, one was morally wrong, the other wasn't. (This does not excuse killing of innocents, and it did happen, and I want those people punished, of course. Wishful thinking though)

I, actually, ALSO AGREE, that the reds would have had a chance of making an impact if they had remained peaceful, becuase YES they do have significant social grievances. Unfortunately, they picked a leader (Thaksin) who had different motives and agendas. If their current leader is sincere about peaceful protests - I am happy to see it. They have a long way to go to "earn back" any sort of trust in their actions, though.

I don't disagree... we only differ on the scale of the reaction and lack of discipline by some of the soldiers - shooting people in the head whilst being interviewed is hardly the sign of a developed democracy.

forget money for Gods sake! 8 lives have been lost - money is irrelevant - you are so materilistically inclined

Money is irrelevant? In Thailand? New here are we?

CLASS I LOVE YOUR REPLY... CLASS...

of course money is relevant here in THAILAND..

you both have missed the point entirely - re-read the post??? hmmm??? not drunk your coffee yet? I was posting that we should not be thinking about the dead peoples family's getting money and 'all is well' we should concentrate on the tragic loss of young lives in that van! I never suggested money wasn't number ONE here it obviously IS.

exactly... bring on the election! Army shooting protestors is disgraceful - Abhisit and his sidekick Suthep will never be forgiven

But protesters shooting solders and burning buildings and bombing and grenade tossing are ok, right CMF?

I consistently post against violence - by any side - and I am also against security forces shooting into temples and killing people - no justification apart from if they were being shot at (which I understand they were not). It is always up to any government to take the 'high ground' and show restraint - I agree law and order should prevail and would support a peaceful 'Ghandi' style protest which would serve the reds better in my view.

You understand incorrectly. The soldiers showed considerable restraint, by an large, considering the massive pressure the red leadership was putting on them.

What you people can't seem to grasp is that the reds wanted a massacre. They put the black shirts in the lttle old lady reds, as human shields, to provoke a huge overeaction, as has happened in the past. Instead the army did a very careful urban containment of the situation. Sealed the area, and slow limited the access, like a vise. Eventually the reds cracked, tried to force the issue with the breakout marches (which is what provoked the final crackdown, if you recall), and the army ended it. Most international military analysts credit the Thai army with a well executed urban riot containment, and confirm this key fact. They did not have any other choice. Should they have allowed the reds to keep lobbing grenades? Should they have allowed them to keep firing LIVE ROUNDS at soldiers and buildings? Should they have allowed the reds to use women and children as human shields (Cattle to the slaughter for Thaksin) in the Red's game of "Kill the innocents, change the government"?

The reds always use the same refrain - "I am against violence, but....the government soldiers are bad.." How about the reds how started it? Who is to blame, the cop who shoots the bad guy, or the bad guy who draws his gun first? The incident was crafted to create a massacre, and the fact that it was handled reasonable well from a strategic standpoint is why the reds finally broke. And what happened with they broke? They continued to destroy! Burning, looting, shooting? And you wanted this to continue indefinitely? You wanted Bangkok to be held hostage by these people?

Soldiers killed reds. Yes they did. Were some of the deaths tragic? Yes. Where some negligent - Yes. What it a perfect flawless operation? - No. But was it successful in restoring peace and sanity to the Red-induced crazy violence - Yes.

Did the reds have a chance to end peacefully - Yes (if they accepted, we would have ALREADY HAD AN ELECTION). Did they accept - No (Because it didn't get Thaksin what he wanted HIS MONEY BACK).

I don't apologize for anyone who uses violence, but the government has the duty to protect the public from violence perpetrated against them. The Reds were the perpetrators of that violence, and had to be stopped. You say "they should have used water cannons, tear gas, etc. You seem to forget that they tried that, and the Reds/black fired live rounds and grenades at them, killing soldiers. Does this happen in western countries, during protests? No. So that argument has no merit.

Stop defending an imoral protest, led by immoral leaders, whose goals and aims were not for anyone's interests but themselves.

FInally - what about the money? When the money stopped flowing, the attacks stopped. Coincidence? These black shirt/red shirts aren't even ideological zealots, they are mercenaries, and when they don't get paid, they don't work. Hence, a peaceful Bangkok. Every argument the proreds use is flawed, because the results of their "it should have been done this way" statement results in more chaos and violence perpetrated against the public by a group of psychopaths. When the bully hits us, we are suppose to take it, without recourse. Nonsense. In the end, history will judge who was right and wrong. In the violence of 1973, 1976, and 1991, it has given verdict. In 2010, I think we all know who will be held responsible for the deaths.

I totally agree - and have posted before - that the reds 'threw it away' and should have walked and the elections would have been in Nov - a stupid, stupid decision. But as for your other observations I cannot concur - anyway let the people decide? hold an election... and I don't like being called 'you people' I am not a red nor a Thaksin supporter but sympathise with the issues the reds raised (i.e. the poor etc.). It stinks that the yellows were allowed to hold the country hostage and nothing was done - now one of their spokesmen is deputy PM! go figuer why people are frustrated!

Lots of posts, and some good points... I thought I would add my 2 Satangs worth...

* Having a licence doesn't mean this accident/collision wouldn't have happened... If Pear was a year older and had a licence, would all of the 'Lock Her Up' cries be the same??? Having a licence only means that she has passed a test, and has a piece of paper to say she passed a test... doesn't mean she is more or less able to drive... Not saying it is OK for her to drive without a licence, but that isn't the reason the accident happened...

* In Australia, you can drive, as a learner, at 16... supervised by an adult... would we still lock her up???

IMHO, any action against her should be because of her driving, not her licence status, or age, or Family Influence... It should also be measured by how she was driving compared to every other driver in Thailand, not compared to drivers in Australia, Pomgolia, or the US...

For the most part, drivers in Thailand either don't understand the possible consequence of their driving, or don't care.... It doesn't have to be an over regulated nanny state, but I would like to see some sort of law and order on the roads...

I hope a lot of posters went back to the other thread about this collision and retracted their statement attacking "All Public Transport Drivers" and minivan drivers, in the wake of revelations since...

Cheers,

Daewoo

agreed with additional observation that it DOES matter if she is driving illegally (i.e. underage) and as for your last point largely, in my experience, they don't care about other roadusers examples abound - there seems to be no curtesy at all - no giving way, no indication and a 'mai pen rai' attitude.

The Nation: Channel 3: Pathumwanaram Temple offers itself as refuge for any side on condition that no weapons would be allowed to be carried in.

May 15, 2010

The Nation: Petrol bombs and boxes labelled 'grenades' were found by authorities near Lumphini park. Weapons were also found belonging to the red shirts in Sarasin and Pathumwaranaram temple. Bomb-making materials were amongst the items confiscated.

May 20, 2010

no justification apart from if they were being shot at (which I understand they were not)

The weapons and bomb-making materials at the temple were going to be used as offerings to the monks?

Most Buddhists use saffron robes or packages of soap or food items for that purpose.

.

I doubt that's true and even if it were shooting from the expressway into crowds of terrified temple-goers would hardly be tolerated in the West would it?

Her father has come out and said she should be held responsible for her actions, but that people should leave her alone until the Police have finished the investigation, as she has still not officially been charged or not identified as the culprit.

A sensible approach but maybe he should comment how she got the car? the keys? permission to drive allegedly underage? probably not the first time she has driven - isn't that a Fathers responsibility too?