Nickymaster

A Thai court recently convicted the officers of killing 17-year-old Kiattisak Thitbunkhrong in 2004?

Really? I thought the decision is not final yet.

They were convicted. They appealed.

Exactly. Not guilty until 3 courts say so.

Exciting times for the parents of this boy.. There is still a change to deny them justice…

Police said today they are expecting 3,000 Red Shirts to rally outside the court building tomorrow.

They have advised motorists to avoid Ratchadaphisek Road due to expected traffic and congestion.

.

Are those Red leaders so insecure that they need 3000 people to go to the court for moral support?

If you hear them on stage you would think differently.

Are you satisfied with the performance of this government?

Regarding your question : do you really care what I think about this government? If you do, then we can talk. If you don't, then why should I spend more time on this?

That is no answer...

I didn't ask you, either.

But I suspect that you fall into the "don't really care" category...

To be honest I don't really care about your opinion. I am just looking for people who really believe that this government is doing a good job. I can't imagine there are educated people who could say with a straight face: " This government is doing a good job for Thailand. Let them continue doing this good work for the next three years".

I honestly see Thailand becoming the next Greece/Italy/Spain. People living on government support...until the Government has no more money. Only short term policies to keep their voters motivated.

It is a real pity seeing the DSI selling out to the highest bidder/political persuasion to save job appointment.

These were the guys we were supposed to be able to trust to clean the filth from the sewers of parliament/public service.

Did Mark congratulate DSI for doing a good job charging (almost) all Red Shirts as terrorist?

Why would you want to congratulate a department that only works for the ones that are in power? I guess Tharit was just "doing his job".

From August 2011, the Government Policy Statement

"Opening Statement

1. Urgent Policies to be Implemented in the First Year

...

http://www.thailandt...politics/policy

1.1 Foster reconciliation and harmony among people in the nation and restore democracy

1.2 Prevention of and define solutions to drug problems as a “national agenda”

1.3 Earnestly prevent and fight against corruption in the public sector

1.4 Promote integrated water management and promptly expand irrigation areas

1.5 Expeditiously return peace and security to people’s life and property in the Southern Border Provinces

1.6 Expeditiously restore relations and develop cooperation with neighboring countries and other foreign countries

1.7 Alleviate difficulties of people and entrepreneurs as a result of inflationary pressure and high oil prices

1.8 Raising people’s standard of living by enhancing domestic purchasing power and creating balance and strength with quality in the macroeconomic system.

1.9 Reduce Corporate Income Tax

1.10 Improve people’s access to sources of funding

1.11 Raise the price of agricultural products and enable farmers to gain access to sources of investment

1.12 Expeditiously increase income generation from domestic and in-bound tourism

1.13 Support development of folk arts and crafts in order to promote and create local identity and local products

1.14 Further develop the health insurance system

1.15 Procure tablet PCs for schools

1.16 Expedite political reforms with broad based public participation

Where did you get this list from? Surely not made by this government. Only point 1.9 and 1.15 are applicable to this government.

Point 1.16 is really funny:

Calling an urgent vote on a non-urgent bill = Expedite political reforms with broad based public participation I didn't know that.

From August 2011, the Government Policy Statement

"Opening Statement

1. Urgent Policies to be Implemented in the First Year

...

http://www.thailandt...politics/policy

1.1 Foster reconciliation and harmony among people in the nation and restore democracy

1.2 Prevention of and define solutions to drug problems as a “national agenda”

1.3 Earnestly prevent and fight against corruption in the public sector

1.4 Promote integrated water management and promptly expand irrigation areas

1.5 Expeditiously return peace and security to people’s life and property in the Southern Border Provinces

1.6 Expeditiously restore relations and develop cooperation with neighboring countries and other foreign countries

1.7 Alleviate difficulties of people and entrepreneurs as a result of inflationary pressure and high oil prices

1.8 Raising people’s standard of living by enhancing domestic purchasing power and creating balance and strength with quality in the macroeconomic system.

1.9 Reduce Corporate Income Tax

1.10 Improve people’s access to sources of funding

1.11 Raise the price of agricultural products and enable farmers to gain access to sources of investment

1.12 Expeditiously increase income generation from domestic and in-bound tourism

1.13 Support development of folk arts and crafts in order to promote and create local identity and local products

1.14 Further develop the health insurance system

1.15 Procure tablet PCs for schools

1.16 Expedite political reforms with broad based public participation

Where did you get this list from? Surely not made by this government. Only point 1.9 and 1.15 are applicable to this government.

Well that is an easy one Mick

Give me a list of all the woes that confounded Thailand at the point Yinguck and PTP came into office

Then tell me which of these items you personally feel could be eradicated in one year

Then, list the items where PTP acknowledge there is an issue to be addressed....a starting point if you like

Let me start,

Centuries of entrenched corruption, not fixed by the previous government in 2 years, or any government previously

Outdated education system, not fixed by the previous government in 2 years

Railway inrfastructure, outdated system, not fixed by the previous government in 2 years

Information highway, largely enhanced by the private sector, little or no input from the previous government in 2 years

Wage structure, not adequately addressed by the previous government in 2 years

Flood defences, little or nothing done by the previous government in 2 years

Just a start Mick you are welcome to add to the list of woes

But the difference is many people did not expect great improvement in the above areas from the Democrats in a short time because they are huge challenges

They were therefore not disappointed

It's not about all the long term issues that the PTP didn't fix. It's about what they said they were going to do ... and haven't.

right, so name a single promise that is not being addressed already. No one ever comes back on that because they just want to whine about how bad this government is.

Your discussion crutch is "it's not finished yet".

It's impossible to have a discussion about what might have been done better when people refuse to admit that something has actually been done.

Are you satisfied with the performance of this government?

This Government is trying everything to avoid the victims of this slaughtering receiving justice. They will also try their very best not to pay compensation. All political decisions.

If 1 victim's killer is punished or if 1 victim receives compensation, the door for Thaksin to go the Holland is open.

But....... the cowards in this PT government will NEVER become a signatory to the ICC.

Thaksin, PT and the Red leaders: "If you want the ICC to investigate AV, become a signatory! If you don't want to become a signatory, shut up and stop fooling your Red supporters!"

Being a signatory member, mean giving Thai temple land to the poor Khmer Hun Sen.

We are no long as stupid as we were in the 1960s.

Farang please don't trick us anymore, we won't fall into the same trap twice.

What has the temple story to do with the ICC? Or are you just making a trick comment?

This Government is trying everything to avoid the victims of this slaughtering receiving justice. They will also try their very best not to pay compensation. All political decisions.

If 1 victim's killer is punished or if 1 victim receives compensation, the door for Thaksin to go the Holland is open.

But....... the cowards in this PT government will NEVER become a signatory to the ICC.

Thaksin, PT and the Red leaders: "If you want the ICC to investigate AV, become a signatory! If you don't want to become a signatory, shut up and stop fooling your Red supporters!"

I'm not stupid and neither is he - if anybody can pin Thaksin directly to a kill order I will be extremely suprised and so would he be, I feel. IMHO he never gave the order to murder anyone, the police officers did that, but if anybody wants to say the buck stops with him they would be mistaken and we can't say anymore on that.

If what it takes for you to be satisfied that Thaksin bears responsibility (be it large or be it small) for those thousands of deaths, is a direct order to kill from him nicely and neatly written down on an official document, then you might be out of luck (or should that be in luck?). It's very obvious though that after the war on drugs program was initiated, by Thaksin and his TRT party, along with those promises of eradicating drugs from Thailand, that the police had extended powers in terms of dealing with suspects; that the police were taking a different approach that was far more hard-line and that included in a great number of cases, shooting to kill. And as stated, this wasn't a one off incident we are talking about, or something that occurred over a few days, taking everyone by surprise, this was ongoing for months. If Thaksin hadn't meant for the police to start operating in the way that they did, he had plenty of opportunity to put a stop to it. But he didn't.

To be honest, having a discussion in which it is argued that Thaksin bears no responsibility for any of this from the program that was hailed pretty much as being his own brainchild... that he had no idea of the slaughtering that was involved of people who were merely suspects yet to be charged, let alone face trial... that if he was aware, he was quite powerless to do anything about it... is about as ridiculous an argument as there is, in my opinion, and does nothing of help to your claim, perpetually made, of still remaining critically minded regards Thaksin. That ship has clearly sailed.

Nice 1 rixalex. Couldn't agree more.

As I argued earlier, I challenge this government to put forward the idea for Thailand to become a signatory to the ICC.

Interesting but important to note the unofficial and partial footnote comment.

That there is evidence that links Thaksin and his government to the extrajudicial killings i don't think is really of much dispute. Even a five-year old could make the case. I don't think the problem was lack of evidence, but rather lack of will from certain quarters. Thaksin is clearly not the only one who would be fingered. He is the one however who was at the top of the pyramid, the one who had the power to both initiate policy and to cease it. This didn't happen in one day. If he wasn't the one who green-lighted it (i absolutely think he was), he certainly didn't red-light it either. He took the credit for the good things that happened under his rule (yes, good things did happen), he (and his fans) shouldn't have any trouble with him taking the blame for the bad things... or at least a healthy portion of the blame.

"That there is evidence that links Thaksin and his government to the extrajudicial killings i don't think is really of much dispute. Even a five-year old could make the case."

Interesting, perhaps you could take a look through Thaksins Prime Ministers Order No. 29/2546 Re: The Fight to Overcome Narcotic Drugs and point out this "clear link to the extrajudicial killings" that "Even a five-year old could make the case."

http://www.article2....le.php/0203/83/

You might want to look at the comments from individual Police Officers and the Minister of the Interior of the time if you want to base your "evidence" on hyperbole, not an unusual tactic on this forum..........

Interesting link but important to note that it is both an unofficial and a partial copy of a document.

Funny the way Thaksin's supporters switch from one minute, arguing that the war on drugs was ok because the public supported it, to, in the next breath, actually, don't you know, Thaksin can't be linked to it.. and he was oblivious to what was going on, and all the people who were getting killed.

What a joke. Anyone who lived here during the "war on drugs" knows exactly how pivotal his role in it was. Denying it is like denying that Bush had anything to do with the "war on terror".

Did you read enough to see what was left out, nothing of importance. I love the way the anti "thaksins supporters" cherry pick what they question and assume that all dissent to their party line is therefore in support of the "opposition". Now will you get it through your head just for a second that I don't hoover up every little bit of info up as fact. I query some of it but just because I do, it does not make me a 100% supporter of the subject I am querying.

Rivalex states cold blank that a 5 year old could pin Thaksin to the extrajudicial murders. I say that is wrong. I am accused of supporting thaksin and denying the deaths ever happened. BS. Look at the only (according to the website itself) english translation of the orders he gave. Nothing there to pin him down - As I said.

I'm not stupid and neither is he - if anybody can pin Thaksin directly to a kill order I will be extremely suprised and so would he be, I feel. IMHO he never gave the order to murder anyone, the police officers did that, but if anybody wants to say the buck stops with him they would be mistaken and we can't say anymore on that.

I do wonder about the depth of feeling for the victims in this "war" - I wonder if the same outpourings of grief have ever been shown for the victims of May 1992, the Thammasat University massacre, the 3000 or so killed in the 70's during the communist witch hunts, the 300 odd who died in the '47 coup, the victims of 2009 / 2010, the 6000 in the south of Thailand ?

I've deliberately left out Tak Bai and Krue Sae as they are usually used as sticks against Thaksin.

You still don't get it. Please answer 1 simple question: If it is so clear that AV has given orders to kill, why doesn't Thailand become a full member of the ICC because that is THE ONLY WAY the ICC could consider investigating this case.

1 simple question.

How can she be a weak leader which such an impressive track-record..

"Chalermchai said Yingluck should not use her femininity to try to avoid attacks by the Democrats. Sex and politics must be separated, he said."

We'll see just how far sex and politics are seperated tomorrow if the three amigos, Sirichok Sopha, Thepthai Senapong and Chavanond Intarakomalyasut bother to answers summons from the police or whether they will be less than gentlemenly and claim immunity during a parliamentary session.The three of them are subject to questioning wrt defamation saying ungentlemanly things about Yingluck and the Four Seasons. Worth watching out for, I remember a few of our members posting some salacious comments about Yingluck...................................

How dare they criticize Cinderella.

"Bother to answer"

I know a few musketeers on the run avoiding to answer and be held responsible for their actions.

AT LEAST the Dems are still in Thailand....

All 5 in the picture have accumulated great wealth trough corruption.

Hypocrites.

The message is clear (landslide ?) : 70 per cent of the public still want the premier to continue her work

Following recent polls indicating that the public did not want a censure debate. It's a clear message, the public is fed up with all these maneuver from the opposition, just let the government work.

Abhisit, who has never been known for his sharp mind, worries that the public might not yet know enough information. Mr Abhisit, the message is clear, 70% of the public want you to let the government do its job. Please go away until you have something constructive to say.

You clearly have no idea what democracy and transparency is all about. You are saying that a corrupt government in a corrupt country like Thailand doesn't need to explain what they have been up to. We read in the news everyday that graft is discovered all over the place and you say: let them "work" without checks and balances.

Today while looking at other news, I saw this description for the RSS feeds of the BKK Post and Nation,

"Bangkok Post Breaking (“Blatent” Pro-Establishment)"

and

"Nation (“Blatant” Pro-Abhisit & Anti-Yingluck)"

The I get to take in these two juicy morsels, ...

...

This is going to be a big problem for the administration led by Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, who is not known for her debating skills.

...

The task would be too difficult for Yingluck and she would end up being grilled completely by Democrat Party MPs who are known for their political expertise and legal knowledge.

surprise, surprise, surprise...

Correct. Let's not make it juicy. Let's wait and see how she handles being grilled. I think it is about time the public gets to know her stand on major issues facing this country and their lives.

Does this mean that our financially supported red shirt apologists might have vanished from this forum?

Let's see!

Are you implying that posters on this forum are being paid to post?

Clearly haven't vanished. Paid, who knows.

These guys should get together and get their bullshit straight.

Give them a brake. They are so busy twisting and turning that they sometimes get caught in their own web.

And shamelessly supporting a guy that is labeled by HRW as a human rights abuser of it's worst kind.

But who can stop a rich, corrupt narcissist what a propaganda machine working at full speed in a country where many have little education. Perfect playing field.

Off topic somewhat but which particular hrw are you talking about - there is a difference, but you must know that.............

Are you saying that I am lying when I say HRW called Thaksin a Human Rights abuser of it's worst kind?

Y/N pick one!

There was a War on Drugs under thaksin supported on all sides.

Whose idea was it?

To date there have been no convictions.

What have the courts been doing?

Thaksin was deposed in 2006 in a coup.

Wrong answer. Next.

And shamelessly supporting a guy that is labeled by HRW as a human rights abuser of it's worst kind.

But who can stop a rich, corrupt narcissist what a propaganda machine working at full speed in a country where many have little education. Perfect playing field.

Off topic somewhat but which particular hrw are you talking about - there is a difference, but you must know that.............

Are you saying that I am lying when I say HRW called Thaksin a Human Rights abuser of it's worst kind?

Y/N pick one!

PPD would call this censorship and not fair. Any other civilized person would agree with the court.

Will the police do what they have to do? It will remain a question mark.

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung, who oversees the Royal Thai Police, this may be a clue as to how seriously the police will take the courts orders.

A Criminal Court Judiciary that employs Judge/s that allow convicted killers to go free on bail, this may be a clue to how seriously the public views the courts orders......................

Or you can just intimidate them all, along with witnesses, and bribe them as well like Chalerm and his son did. There is an idea for your toilet mouth hero Jatuporn.

I bet you they have tried the bribing option (remember the cookie box?) If that doesn't work intimidation is the next most obvious tactic for the Reds I might assume.