Nickymaster

Why is the army afraid off if they are dammed sure they did not shoot those innocents....

Is the army afraid? Who are the innocent?

Wow. Thanksin now rank among Nelson Mandela, Ang San Suu Kyi and Mahatma Gandhi.

In your eyes.

Chalerm

Is a burned out old man with to much ear medicine.

A two year old could see that the reconciliation bill has nothing to do with reconciliation. It would be more appropriate to name it the white wash bill.

Since when does a bill that will cause a wider political spread get named reconciliation Bill. A reconciliation bill would be as different as night and day from what the PT are claiming to be reconciliation.

But if we would look at his bank account he would look a lot smarter than you and me together.....$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

It is an achievement to make so much money with such a small brain, I really respect that.

There are many rich people behind bars (yes I know not on LOS) but does that mean they have a small brain or big brain?

Don't worry Suthep. The public has been aware Thaksin's game for many months.

Why doesn't Chalerm wants to know who the Men in Black Are?

Why doesn't Chalerm wants to know who killed the 20 soldiers and policemen?

Why doesn't Chalerm wants to know who burned Bangkok?

Yeah I know, it's Chalerm.

Maybe Weng made these ICC comments because:

1. Distract attention from the budget debate

2. Keep the Reds warm in case they are needed on short notice

3. Part of their propaganda: Who killed their peaceful protestors

BTW have you noticed that:

1. This government is NOT interested to find out who killed their officials.

2. The UDD/PT leaders have NEVER blamed the so called Men In Black for any of the killings. They only blame the army.

weng condemned the hospital incident.

http://en.wikipedia....itical_protests

I'm glad one of them did. Doesn't say much for the rest of them.

As a UDD leader, don't you think he is able to speak for more than just himself?

Fellow Red Shirt Leader and current Pheu Thai Party MP Payap (same titles as Weng), who led the Red Shirt raid on Chulalongkorn Hospital and never apologized speaks volumes for the so-called "movement."

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OMG, Payap is an MP?! .. So that's his reward? Immunity? UNBELIEVABLE!

With the amount of pro-and anti-Thaksin folks thus far showing up if they press ganged a couple of the local cops they could have a football match.

I've seen more participants at a " Stand Proud If You Love Denzel Washington" meeting of the local KKK.

Although about wenging, I have to confirm that Dr. weng didn't lead the hospital invasion. Dr. weng only apologised, or as some have it 'condemned' the action.

"A group of anti-government 'Red Shirt' United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) led by one of the leader Payap Panket stormed Chulalongkorn Hospital Thursday night, searching for 'hidden' troops after receiving information that 200-300 military personnel on hospital premises preparing to disperse the protesters."

http://www.mcot.net/...page/50532.html

The information that 200-300 military personnel where in the hospital came from Jatuporn?

I do 'apologise', but answering that question would lead us too far from the OP of Dr. weng calling for recognition of ICC jurisdiction, one-off that is

You are right.

Although about wenging, I have to confirm that Dr. weng didn't lead the hospital invasion. Dr. weng only apologised, or as some have is 'condemned' the action.

"A group of anti-government 'Red Shirt' United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) led by one of the leader Payap Panket stormed Chulalongkorn Hospital Thursday night, searching for 'hidden' troops after receiving information that 200-300 military personnel on hospital premises preparing to disperse the protesters."

http://www.mcot.net/...page/50532.html

The information that 200-300 military personnel where in the hospital came from Jatuporn?

No you completely miss the point which is that these people constantly denigrate rural Thais for their ignorance but are often unable to string together a simple English sentence themselves.It's nothing to do with being pedantic.It's simply exposing their arrogance and hypocrisy.

Aren't you now exposing your own arrogance and hypocrisy by assuming that these people are individuals who denigrate rural Thais?

Maybe these people WHERE rural Thais before they left to the US? Or is that not possible?

I am guessing Thai's are not get a lot of sympathy in Myanmar after all the years of murder and abuse their citizens have endured here in Thailand.

Wrong.

Thai only shoot to kill Cambodian illegal loggers; not Burmese.

Any proof or is it another smartass statement?

How about The War on Drugs and The Tak Bae massacre , they could also be investigated, but suppose that might implicate The DL.

What was wrong with the war on drugs?Thaksin did the right thing,Yeah sorry a few innocent people died,but most who died probably deserved to die,I'm happy for any drug baron or drug dealer who died at that time,unfortunately thaksin had to stop,if not thailand might be drug free by now,tak bae is and was an army thing,the army handles the south the way they want to handle it,they don't listen to any government in bkk,

What if one of the few (1000+) innocent people being killed was your father? Would you make the same stupid comment?

Shame on you!

Thaksin is best friend of Dick Sheney and part of the same clique. His sister uses the same tactics to reduce Thailand to slavery by the debt. The more debt, the more money for the banks and for them. And when they people will be ruined, they will raid on their properties and their land. Thailand will be theirs the same as America is now owned by corporates.

End of the story. Everything is very simple.

For the ones who complain about raising price, it is basic economy. The more debt, the more inflation. The more Thaksin sister borrow to the banks, the more the prices go up... ask to the people in Greece.

Spot on!

What I am saying should be perfectly clear : "lack of education" is not only inaccurate, it is not applicable and just a blanket, pejorative statement which indicates your biases regarding UDD members but doesn't seriously address the statements from annabel.

Why people buy into any given dogma has nothing to do with education. It often times also has no real relationship to the self-interests of the people involved, either. It does very often have a lot to do with emotional attachments to their own feelings and conditioning. Look at the way politicians and political groups play on peoples' emotions. The emotions win over reasoning nearly every time - even with well-educated people. This can be true of people on the right and the left, in Thailand and elsewhere.

You believe that education has no relationship with how people buy into dogma or affect their self-interests (moral principles)? Any studies on that or it's something that you're using to further your reasoning by procuring fallacies? You might prematurely draw that connection of politicians appealing to emotions to win over reasoning and that education doesn't play any role, to that I disagree.

I believe a good education helps build a strong foundation in our ability to reason. This is based on my belief only and I don't expect everyone to agree with me either. By studying history we may learn the mistakes of our predecessors and hope that we don't repeat that mistake on our progressive journey. While I don't necessarily believe that in order to have good morals one needs to take a class in "Ethics and Morals" but I feel that it helps build character and knowledge as those classes will require the students to read books on several of history's role models and villains.

A class worth taking and that people often overlook as it doesn't have any direct access to the job market is Philosophy. I'm convinced that people who have taken this class learn how to analyze information and process them to come up with objective conclusions, after all that's what Philosophers have been trying to do for the past thousands of years. Of course in their quest for answers, this all branches out into the sciences which leads us to the world of today, however screwed it seems to be. With logic, people can catch fallacies and try to construct a valid argument for their reasoning. Education is a window to knowledge of the outside world and without it, people are limited to what the media feeds them.

Given access to skills that help them reason, I believe that we would see less violent and emotional speeches and more intelligent debates. We would need to build a strong foundation in order to have these debates and education plays an important role to dispel the emotional fog that politicians cast. If politicians are all liars working for their self interest, who else do we rely on other than ourselves to make sure we don't get taken advantage of.

Finally, despite what your colors and political bias are, I believe many on this forum hold moral principles to a high standard, otherwise why are we using our time on a this subject? Out of hundreds of thousands in Thailand, why are there only a handful participating? It's because we care and trying to utilize our reasoning make sense of this political fiasco and I truly hope that Thai citizens be more active in politics. It's a bumpy road that must be tread.

no, I do not believe that education has any bearing on people following a particular dogma (left or right) or on moral values. Education that is, in the normal sense of primary, secondary and university education, is, with a few exceptions, about training people to do a job. Period. (I agree with you about philosophy studies, BTW). As for studies, I am not aware of formal studies looking at this topic, but would be happy to find some. Observation at a personal level and a societal level shows that highly educated people often develop a political position which supports politicians acting directly against their own self-interests. A simple example would be that in the USA, no middle class person following a political position in their own interest should support the economic policies of the Republican party and yet millions do exactly that. And many, many of these people are extremely well educated.

Secondly, Hellodolly gratuitously lambasted the UDD members as uneducated. Other people simply state that they are ignorant (unintelligent). Both are clearly gratuitous slurs.

Thirdly, looking at the yellow shirts, their numbers apparently include a greater number of more affluent, and correspondingly educated, people, and this does not prevent them from buying into a political position which is extremely emotional and dogmatic.

I am not sure that all Thai politicians are liars working selfishly in their own self-interest. That could be true, I just don't have any experience on which to base such a statement. There certainly are politicians who are, and Thailand has a history of corruption, which includes politicians, but that doesn't mean necessarily that they all (ie: the vast majority) are corrupt and selfish.

More intelligent debates would be a great thing in Thailand (and other countries). Maybe we'll see more of that. I'm not terribly hopeful, however, ...

Once again I find myself disagreeing with you in that education is meant to train people to do a job. I believe that education is meant to prepare people on how to ask and answer questions. This knowledge then becomes tools for us to utilize depending on the individual.

Why do I believe that education is meant to prepare us for asking and answering questions? Without questions, you cant find purpose. It's much more sensible to view it as such because education does not necessarily prepare you to do a job. If education is meant to prepare you to do a job, then a person educated in a specific field would consequently be unable to do a job that he or she wasnt educated in. But we can see that a person who has a master's degree in computer science can be a marketing manager, therefore education is not meant to train us for a job.

On the other hand, without having the knowledge gained through education, we are ill prepared to ask and answer life's questions. Ask a carpenter on the laws of thermodynamics and he might be able to answer you if he has taken the class. Ask a child what is 100 + 12 and he might be able to answer you through mathematics. Ask the same child, what is the purpose of knowing 100+12 and he might be at a loss until he is better educated.

As for well educate politicians taking political sides, recall that I reasoned that education is used to answer and ask questions. I havent studied politics beyond high school a long time ago, so I am at a loss about the reference to the Republicans. I cant intelligently come up with a rebuttal if it deserves one nor can I agree with you. However, I would like to voice my opinion on the matter.

It is plausible that people consider themselves educated because they went through college. However, like me they may not have the tools or knowledge no better than someone who hasnt gone past high school. Then comes the view that since they are better educated they must know more than the average farmer. So they may take it upon themselves to steer politics in their favor because they believe they know more. Asked if I am of this position, I would admit yes. A person who is better educated to answer or ask questions is more prepared to do so than someone who isnt. Some of us might know the atrocities of Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao and we might be of better opinion than someone who doesn't know who they were.

The world is changing where information is much easily accessed. Curious people can now educate themselves so long as they do not have tunnel vision.

You believe that education has no relationship with how people buy into dogma or affect their self-interests (moral principles)?

Where I come from, the first 12 years of education is fairly the same for everybody, then you will start to concentrate your studies on the direction you want to go ie accountant, police-officer etc. So basically the first 12 years you get "general" education to become a more "educated" person to make uh...better judgments.

If anybody believes that education is just learning a profession in order to do a task that can give you some sort of income, he might prefer communism.

Shame on this Red Leader who is revealing his true colors. A one of case. No need to say more.

An interesting take on the situation and strong verbiage from an outside Thailand news source...

Hypocrisy: Syria Burns While Mass Murdering Dictator Roams Freely in USA

Starting in February 2003, and over the course of 3 months, some 2,800 people (approximately 30 a day) would be extra-judicially murdered in the cities and countrysides of Southeast Asia's Thailand. Accused of being "drug dealers," they were systematically exterminated based on "hit lists" compiled by police given carte blanche by then Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra (a former police bureaucrat himself). It would later be determined by official investigations that over half of those killed had nothing to do with the drug trade in any way. Human Rights Watch (HRW) would confirm this in their 2008 report titled, "Thailand’s 'war on drugs'," a follow up to the much more extensive 2004 report, "Not Enough Graves."

Continues:

http://hamsayeh.net/...ely-in-usa.html

Hamsayeh News - August 15, 2012

Interesting source.

yes, and great article.

Thaksin should announce when and where his flight is going to take off.

I am sure PAD will shut that airport down.

You think Thaksin would do that?

What else can she say...

I would imagine that all the facts and figures about where the tigers went and how many are still alive are about as reliable as anything else coming from the a Thai Government. The reality is that Thailands Tigers are being culled (not poached because that would imply that the Authorities were not involved in this, and by authorities I mean anyone in government and public service such as police) due to the demand from Chinese men wanting to eat the animals penis.

So, 100 tigers get sent to China. Mail order penis enhancement basically.

They weren't Thai tigers.

Additional information on where the tigers came from (an in-breeding, DNA-destroying program at a tiger farming operation) and where they went....

450 Tigers Seized From Private Thai Zoo

http://www.thaivisa....ivate-thai-zoo/

Ex-Forestry Chief Plodprasop is found guilty of approving deal

2007-08-10

The Nation

Former Director-General of the Royal Forestry Department Plodprasop Suraswadi has been found guilty of involvement in the export of 100 Bengal tigers - a protected species - to China, Klanarong Chantik, spokesman for the National Counter Corruption Commission, said yesterday.

The NCCC yesterday discussed the scandal, which took place in 2002, and found that Plodprasop's approval to export the tigers was a serious disciplinary violation and also a criminal offence.

Klanarong said the conclusion was reached after the NCCC interviewed 18 witnesses and studied documents related to the issue.

He said the NCCC would send its resolution to Plodprasop's supervisor for disciplinary punishment and to the Office of the Attorney-General to process for criminal action.

A source in the NCCC said the members spent more than five hours discussing the matter. One point of concern was the relationship between Thailand and China. The NCCC was also concerned about the possibility that Plodprasop might file a legal suit against it, said the source, who asked not to be named.

Plodprasop was not available for comment yesterday.

In 2002, Plodprasop, as Director-General of the RFD, allowed Sri Racha Tiger Zoo to export 100 Bengal tigers to a zoo on the island of Hainan.

As the tiger is a protected species under the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species, exports can only be carried out between governments and only for research and education.

Klanarong said the NCCC considered the export authorised by Plodprasop was meant to benefit zoo operators.

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Nice 1 Bucholz. Keep the info coming!

And the PAD are Anti american now believing in a global conspiracy to take over Thailand.

If you don't believe check out ASTV.

Did anyone tell them.

Here we have the yellow "rent a mob."

No reconciliation then.

There seems to be more support in LA than in Bangkok

Thaksin has sold his own sister and bargained with his sworn enemies to get what he wants. He has sold out Thailand and the Thai people to foriegn capitalist interests for the international support hes getting.

Where's the evidence?

On ASTV?

Own judgment and common sense based on available information. Ever heard of that?

And the PAD are Anti american now believing in a global conspiracy to take over Thailand.

If you don't believe check out ASTV.

Did anyone tell them.

Here we have the yellow "rent a mob."

No reconciliation then.

There seems to be more support in LA than in Bangkok

Maybe you should listen more carefully. If you complain that the Bankster and Megacompanies buy the American politics and fight it, than you are actually pro American not anti. Anti American would be supporting that.

And when you look at Syria and Libya you know what they are able to do with peaceful countries.

The PAd now claim that Thaksin is at the head of a movement to topple the head of state and sell out the country. The CC found no evidence.

Sondhi used to claim that Thaksin wanted to remove ... , republicanism, privatise everything, bring in western democracy and then finally to turn Thailand into a communist regime.

Never showed any supporting evidence but by then the damage had been done.

The so called "Finland Accord."

The yellows.

They're citizens of the world's greatest democracy prrotesting against democracy in their home country. Supporters of the coup that ousted its own prime minister.

In Bangkok it's only a taxi ride to get to the demonstration for the yellows unless they are going up country to fight and shoot up the local people over derelict hindhu temples.

Here they're flying in from all points. Hiso's and their maids I guess. No Pad guard I warrant.

They or Abhisit and his party call it an elective dictatorship in Thailand but they themselves, as preservers of the status quo, refuse to reach out to the majority population of Thailand to offer a serious alternative instead they witter on about a supposed "golden past" where everyone knew their place.

They are antideluvian and they are not open to any reasoning.

If Thaksin didn't exist they would have to reinvent him you know "Danger at the door." Last refuge of scoundrels and all that.

And the Topic is:

Rowdy Rally Forces Thaksin To Cancel Meeting In Los Angeles

If someone is unable to obtain a fair trial and is subject to a dangerous environment ith his personal safety at stake , it makes sense to leave until the situation has calmed. If there is a political goal at stake, then there are valid reasons to continue the struggle elsewhere. Better to be alive and functioning than to be dead.

All that would be so much more plausible had Thaksin not stated throughout the whole court case against him that he believed in the justice system and would accept whatever their verdict was; would be so much more plausible had he not waited until he was found guilty to suddenly decide there was a conspiracy against him; would be so much more plausible had it not been his own party in power at the time; would be so much more plausible had it been the other side stuffing millions of baht in a box to pass on to the judges, to try and ensure a guilty verdict against him, not the other way round, as it was, him stuffing millions of baht in a box to pass on to the judges, to try and ensure a not guilty verdict; would be so much more plausible had he appealed the conviction; would be so much more plausible had he ever come out with evidence against the verdict and a proclamation of innocence - he never declares his innocence and his lawyers never speak of evidence that they have to clear his name.

On the one side there is a mountain of reasons to suggest his trial was fair, and on the other, there are fanatics that will never be able to accept guilt in what he has done, and always look for excuses.

Agree, he thought he could bribe the judges but he was wrong.

I'd like to see the evidence of the attempt to bribe court officials.

As I understand it the "cake box" story broke in the nation, nowhere else that day.

There were 3 trials taking place and it was assumed the thaksin case was the culprit.

No charges were ever laid against thaksin's lawyers though they were held without charge for 6 months.

A rather unusual trial don't you think?

You are soo wrong. Thaksin's lawyers were jailed for this issue. Clearly show that you have NO idea what your are talking about.

http://www.economist.com/node/17472738

http://news.bbc.co.u...fic/7473641.stm

There are a dozen more web-sites confirming that his lawyers were jailed. You didn't even take the time to google this topic...

UPDATE:

After reading all the posts I see that you already know that they were charged.

This US tour is very important for Thaksin. He was supposed to show the US and the world that he is a free man and that all charges are politically motivated. I have to say that the planning is a bit poor (but doesn’t surprise me if you see how they run Thailand). It's clear that he is not very welcome and that the hatred against this man is building up around the world. The power of free access to information.