Nickymaster

Weng why don't you make a deal?

Exchange your info on the role of the Men in Black with info on the role of snipers.

I have watched this saga since it's inception and I have yet to find anyone who has offered up an alternative solutiion to what was happening in Bangkok over that period. What should ANY government have done to retrieve the situation, a situation which brought shame to Thailand, decimated the tourist industry for a while and showed many Thais in their real light? The Thai poice were shown to be inept at crowd control and the debacle was handed over to the Army, a conscript army with a few professionals.

A large area of the capital city was taken hostage, not for a day, not for a weekend, but for a disgracefully long period. Civilians and soldiers were being injured in goodly numbers, a hospital was invaded and terrified patients had to be moved. The Government at that time accepted the demands for early elections which, for some reason, did not appease the protest leaders. There is no doubt that the protesters were being stage managed by senior politicians. The same politicians who are rabble rousing now. The inevitable ending had to happen sometime

So, was it inevitable that the whole scenario would end in tears? I think it was guaranteed that the conclusion would be violent and costly.

But back to my original question. What would TV members have done if they were the ones on power to bring all this to an end. I don't think I have ever seen an answer to this.

Maybe because "shoulda', woulda', coulda'" always boils down to ... we/you/they didn't !

Maybe not

She really has a degree from a US University?

Yes I know Bush was laughable too but here we have a clear winner on our hands.

To all those stupid enough to blaim Yingluck, it has always been happening and always will until Bangkok is relocated.

But who was the stupidest of all to make eliminating floods a campaign promise?

GIve me a break? "Thaksin's legal adviser Noppadon Pattama said he disagreed with the ruling. He said that in his opinion, the passport was issued to rectify the injustice inflicted on Thaksin under the Democrat-led government. The previous government cancelled Thaksin's passport without justification, he said, as an act of political vendetta without any precedents."

And this guy is a lawyer? His client jumped bail, and had his passport was cancelled. Where is the 'injustice'? The only injustice here is this convicted criminal is not paying his dues for his crimes against the Thai people. As for no precedents, there are - others who have jumped bail and had their passports cancelled. More verbal diarrhea from the puppet masters puppets.

Any why USA allows a criminal in, while ban Thai bar girls?

And the UK.

And Thailand

What a BS excuse. They refuse this report cause it sheds a light on their movement that they want everyone to forget. That of a armed revolt against the state of Thailand. You can twist and turn whatever you want, but without these red hooligans and their grenade lobbing and soldiers killing terrorist cells, there wouldn't be any casualties at all!

And subsequent Thai 'governments' could continue to ignore the needs of the electorate with impunity, and roll out the military if there were any objections

Of course there maybe those that argue nothing has changed........in their minds probably not......the next election will be very interesting

Talking about the electorate's needs, it all depends on how much money this government has left for populist spending in 3 years from now. Because the current PM is not interested (or to say it nicely, not capable) of making the Thai population self-sufficient, just dependent on them.

Where have I seen this go wrong before?

GIve me a break? "Thaksin's legal adviser Noppadon Pattama said he disagreed with the ruling. He said that in his opinion, the passport was issued to rectify the injustice inflicted on Thaksin under the Democrat-led government. The previous government cancelled Thaksin's passport without justification, he said, as an act of political vendetta without any precedents."

And this guy is a lawyer? His client jumped bail, and had his passport was cancelled. Where is the 'injustice'? The only injustice here is this convicted criminal is not paying his dues for his crimes against the Thai people. As for no precedents, there are - others who have jumped bail and had their passports cancelled. More verbal diarrhea from the puppet masters puppets.

Any why USA allows a criminal in, while ban Thai bar girls?

Maybe the USA was "forced" to do something controversial?

Besides the fact that you don't understand politics, do you understand why his trip was cancelled halfway through?

AsI understand it he is a criminal who skiped bail to avoid going to jail, so how did he get a visa to visit the uk?

from what I read a criminal record is a big no no when you ask for a visa.

Did the democrats have the balls, or any incentive to deal with a return of Thaksin?

Does Thaksin have the balls to come back? Only cowards bark from a distance.

Well, Thaksin is coming down to Singapore later this month for the F1... Hope to have him over for dinner. The gf is real excited.... :-)

Don't do it, the Dems will only ask you to make a Citizens arrest.............

Proud to be an admirer of a ruthless criminal who isn’t shy of leading his followers into a deathtrap. All part of his own political agenda.

The guy must be laughing at you.

"Both [sides] believe they were victims. The operation by the 'men in black' were very instrumental in creating and elevating the violence with the aim of provoking the Army to use weapons against protesters and wanting to exact the loss of lives," page 184 of the report read.

...

...

An M16 was later discovered inside the temple, the report added.

Let me hear from the usual defenders of the red realm how they feel about these quotes from the article.

An M16 was later discovered inside the temple,

What, 3 days later like in Lumpini?

"with the aim of provoking the Army to use weapons against protesters and wanting to exact the loss of lives,"

In this context and without more information, this in nothing more than speculative. A lot like posters on TVF

No speculation here my friend, many have seen these events occur with their own eyes. Including myself.

They could have left after the first rounds of deaths knowing there would be an election within 6 months. Because that’s what they wanted isn't it? An election...real democracy.

But their leaders told them to stay and "fight on". No speculation here. Just facts.

Come on give it another twist tf.

Let me refer you to my first post on this thread

"Most of the comments on this thread give the impression that many posters have missed the underlying purpose of this report

It would not be a smart move to try and lay the whole of the blame on the RTA if you are in government, conflict with the RTA does not bode well for a government

The government must apportion some blame on the RTA to enable the compensation payments regarding the injured and dead thus accomodating the red shirt following

The quoted elements of the report provide vague descriptions and inconclusive comment

Yep just what is required, a report all sides could accept and move on

But will the Thai accept?.....probably.......but certainly not posters on Tvisa I would suspect"

Problem is that the red leaders cannot accept this report. It's completely out of line with their propaganda strategy: " the reds were peaceful protestors (and for sure not sponsored and ordered by Thaksin) and AV killed the innocent, peaceful democracy-loving people. And the police did a good job keeping law and order....and the reds had the right to "return" fire and kill 20 officials…

Chalerm and Thida already stated they cannot accept the report; unsurprisingly.

Just the intial reaction to expect......politics

I am just reporting the current situation. So which part of my post is...politics?

Let me refer you to my first post on this thread

"Most of the comments on this thread give the impression that many posters have missed the underlying purpose of this report

It would not be a smart move to try and lay the whole of the blame on the RTA if you are in government, conflict with the RTA does not bode well for a government

The government must apportion some blame on the RTA to enable the compensation payments regarding the injured and dead thus accomodating the red shirt following

The quoted elements of the report provide vague descriptions and inconclusive comment

Yep just what is required, a report all sides could accept and move on

But will the Thai accept?.....probably.......but certainly not posters on Tvisa I would suspect"

Problem is that the red leaders cannot accept this report. It's completely out of line with their propaganda strategy: " the reds were peaceful protestors (and for sure not sponsored and ordered by Thaksin) and AV killed the innocent, peaceful democracy-loving people. And the police did a good job keeping law and order....and the reds had the right to "return" fire and kill 20 officials…

Chalerm and Thida already stated they cannot accept the report; unsurprisingly.

20 officials died, 70 protestors died. Amazing ratio. All very sad but tell me which other Democracy in this world would allow this to happen. In any western country a cop is allowed to shoot and kill if he is being attacked with a weapon, even if he feels threatened when somebody with any kind of weapon is approaching him. That must be one of the reason they carry weapons..

Aah you are saying that the poor reds were only returning fire. Wooaw, haven’t heard that scenario yet.

You didn't know the reds were returning fire........yet you question my memory earlier in the thread

Not knowing something IS NOT a memory issue. Not remembering something IS a memory issue.

Your case is a judgement issue.

You are welcome!

Had the military planned one strike and one strike only, we don't know how that would have ended. Maybe less people dead, maybe more. Either way i'm sure you would be on here just as you are now, blaming it all on everyone bar the reds, and telling us all the answers for how it should have been handled. Hindsight and a comfy chair miles away from danger are nice luxuries.

I think I recall in reports on the main dispersal, despite the troops firing randomly into the crowd and shouting surrender or we will kill you, there were only 6 deaths, not including the deaths in the wat, would you count them as deaths caused by the dispersal? then we have an opproximate total based on the actual dispersal, yes?

Maybe a safe distance also encourages lateral thought.....

The only facts you choose to remember are the ones you wish to remember.

(rant snipped)

I am unique on Tvisa....thank you....

I could mention that the redhsirts were seen to be returning fire during the dispersal, but you see according to many on the forum if you are being fired at with live amnuntion, you are entitled to respond in any manner you wish.......who am I to disagree

20 officials died, 70 protestors died. Amazing ratio. All very sad but tell me which other Democracy in this world would allow this to happen. In any western country a cop is allowed to shoot and kill if he is being attacked with a weapon, even if he feels threatened when somebody with any kind of weapon is approaching him. That must be one of the reason they carry weapons..

Aah you are saying that the poor reds were only returning fire. Wooaw, haven’t heard that scenario yet.

Small things please small minds.

Yep, there were no men in black just as there are no prostitutes in Pattaya.

Any fool can see that.........

Yes.. but... are we REALLY seeing what we see . According to the puppets in charge of this circus.. not!

Viva la propaganda!

Correct, or how bad, it is the way forward, let the Thai electorate make the decision at the next election. What a shame Abhisit did not follow this train of thought and step down......then there would have been no deaths at all...(keeping on topic)

Are you conveniently ignoring the "unless proven she/he is corrupt" part of my post?

As Buchholz once stated regarding the drug wars, innocent until proved otherwise by legal process. Now what exactly am I supposed to be ignoring?

Have a nice day twister.

Going rate at the time to reach the office varied from 50 to 100 baht depending on the extortionists on duty ,wife's handbag searched and oldest son was asked why his father wasn't supporting Thaksin and the Red Shirt movement.

Pure intimidation nothing more nothing less.Indeed the Thaksin nightmare of democracy was being practiced on a trial run.

People are now coming to realize just what Thaksin and his ilk stand for, a despotic bunch of tyrants intent on enriching themselves and their families.,

Thaksin is indeed a fine example of a liberator of the oppressed, much like Joe Stalin, Mao Tse Tung,Hun Sen. Pol Pot etc

You appear to overlook the fact that a recent poll, accurate or not, did state that 83 percent of the people polled said Yingluck should continue as PM

Yes YS should continue as PM for the whole term (unless proven she is corrupt) otherwise we will never know how good she really is at managing this country.

Correct, or how bad, it is the way forward, let the Thai electorate make the decision at the next election. What a shame Abhisit did not follow this train of thought and step down......then there would have been no deaths at all...(keeping on topic)

Are you conveniently ignoring the "unless proven she/he is corrupt" part of my post?

Going rate at the time to reach the office varied from 50 to 100 baht depending on the extortionists on duty ,wife's handbag searched and oldest son was asked why his father wasn't supporting Thaksin and the Red Shirt movement.

Pure intimidation nothing more nothing less.Indeed the Thaksin nightmare of democracy was being practiced on a trial run.

People are now coming to realize just what Thaksin and his ilk stand for, a despotic bunch of tyrants intent on enriching themselves and their families.,

Thaksin is indeed a fine example of a liberator of the oppressed, much like Joe Stalin, Mao Tse Tung,Hun Sen. Pol Pot etc

You appear to overlook the fact that a recent poll, accurate or not, did state that 83 percent of the people polled said Yingluck should continue as PM

Yes YS should continue as PM for the whole term (unless proven she is corrupt) otherwise we will never know how good she really is at managing this country.

Have to admit this is really off topic.

Going rate at the time to reach the office varied from 50 to 100 baht depending on the extortionists on duty ,wife's handbag searched and oldest son was asked why his father wasn't supporting Thaksin and the Red Shirt movement.

Pure intimidation nothing more nothing less.Indeed the Thaksin nightmare of democracy was being practiced on a trial run.

People are now coming to realize just what Thaksin and his ilk stand for, a despotic bunch of tyrants intent on enriching themselves and their families.,

Thaksin is indeed a fine example of a liberator of the oppressed, much like Joe Stalin, Mao Tse Tung,Hun Sen. Pol Pot etc

You appear to overlook the fact that a recent poll, accurate or not, did state that 83 percent of the people polled said Yingluck should continue as PM

Yes YS should continue as PM for the whole term (unless proven she is corrupt) otherwise we will never know how good she really is at managing this country.

I second that the figures produced by this paragon of honesty - are crap.

Most of the so-called rehabilitation 'programs' are nothing more than boot camps. There are a few, it must be said, that try to teach the inmates some skills that may be useful when they are released.

Blaming other countries like Burma is a stupid attitude. Stick to your patch, Mr C, and you might gain some credibility when you start arresting some of the big fish.

The crap figures began last year when the virtuous lady boss of the paragon of honesty said they were going to eradicate 80% of drugs by this month.

That fantasy was also shared shortly later by the ear medicine consumer.

Chalerm: Isaan set to become drug-free region

http://www.thaivisa....ug-free-region/

.

Buchholz,

You present yourself as someone who is very informed on this matter.... Could you please present to us lowly earthlings some statistics of the drug suppression arrests / confiscations during the years of 2008 to 2011?

I don't consider myself to be a "lowly earthling" so please don't us the word "us", just use "me".

Grenade goes off, seven soldiers killed, colonel with head injury.. after that, yeah, i think the stage of firing warning shots up into the air might have passed.

Yes another major military gaff, should have planned one strike and one strike only.......go in and clear the protestors,why prolong the inevitable.......poor strategy, incompetence, poor management.......caused many needless deaths

So in your opinion which department in this country is in charge of law and order and crowd control?

THANK YOU.

It is of course the serving Prime Minister, the current one to be pilloried for her handling of the floods and the previous one to be held accountable for the needless murder of Thai citizens.

You must be the smart one, or maybe.. , the serving PM is a department in your opinion.

Clear now? Ok back to the department. So in your opinion which department in this country is in charge of law and order and crowd control?

HINT, it cannot be the PM because he/she only gives orders (as with YS) and doesn't manage that particular department.

Let him run!

It will most probably be a good reminder of how popular PT and Thaksin's family are in Bangkok.

The French has no reason to lie.

Also, they are shooting the film from the army side (friend), not from the Red-shirt side (foe).

http://www.france24....ctly-protesters

Grenade goes off, seven soldiers killed, colonel with head injury.. after that, yeah, i think the stage of firing warning shots up into the air might have passed.

Yes another major military gaff, should have planned one strike and one strike only.......go in and clear the protestors,why prolong the inevitable.......poor strategy, incompetence, poor management.......caused many needless deaths

So in your opinion which department in this country is in charge of law and order and crowd control?

Quote:

[snipers, from the thai army not from hypothetical "men in black" group, shooting at protesters... no mysterious "third hand" here...]

http://thaicrisis.wordpress.com/

Somebody must have killed those 20 officials or so.

You seem to know a lot. So therefore, can you tell me who?