saintofsilence

The CNN/Dan Rivers video kinda kills all the pro-red arguments ... not to mention the Brit that says he was with the reds when they were burning down Channel 3 (to try and escape the charge of burning down Central World!)

This Brit is will probably also make a deal with government especially for his own safety , he is a very important witness and needs to watch his back I would think.

Did he have a weapon in his hand at the time

Unmasked: Thailand's men in black

Kenneth Todd Ruiz & Olivier Sarbil

A cigarette hanging from his lips, a sinewy man with a knotted-up beard perched on the back of a plastic chair and spoke into a military-grade radio. ''Happy birthday," he said in English. Moments later a sonorous detonation boomed from afar in the heart of the Thai capital. A cluster of anti-government protesters crowded around him exulted, shouting ''Happy birthday'' in unison. Many more such coded celebrations would follow in the next 24 hours.

It's five days before the army would send armored personnel carriers into central Bangkok on May 19 to decisively quash the ''red shirt'' occupation, and your correspondents are inside a tent with the infamous paramilitaries, dubbed ''men in black'' by the media, as they prepared for war. They let us inside their secret world on one condition: if we took any pictures, they would kill us.

These were not the regular black-attired security guards employed by the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship, or UDD, anti-government protest group who generally didn't carry guns. These were the secretive and heavily armed agent provocateurs whose connections, by their own admission, run to the top of the UDD, also known as the red shirts.

Several UDD co-leaders have since been detained and branded as ''terrorists'' by the Thai government. On Wednesday, Thai authorities issued an arrest warrant for self-exiled former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra on terrorism charges, alleging a link between the fugitive politician and the UDD gunmen's violent campaign. Thaksin swiftly denied the charges.

There was a simple honesty to our arrangement with the fighters, but their death threat didn't preclude Thai-style hospitality. Only one man voiced displeasure with our presence; he asked his comrades about us, but he used the Thai pronoun for ''it''. As the sun set on May 14 behind the UDD's bamboo-and-tire fortress erected in the heart of one of Bangkok's top commercial districts, the men ate hot noodles and whispered anxiously about army shooters. Snipers angered them.

Twenty-four hours earlier, Bangkok had been plunged into chaos after the man whom they said issued their orders directly, renegade army officer Maj Gen Khattiya Sawasdipol, was struck down and eventually died from a sniper's bullet as he spoke to a reporter. The government has denied responsibility for the hit.

Khattiya, a celebrity rogue revered by many red shirts, often spoke fondly of what he called the ''Ronin Warriors'' - Ronin being samurai with no lord or master. In February, he boasted to reporters of training an undisclosed number of former military men to defend the red shirts, but later publicly denied leading them. Absent Khattiya's leadership, discipline inside the red fortress was on the decline. Alcohol flowed freely, fueling tempers and fist-fights. Earlier in the day a Ronin fighter fired an Israeli-made TAR-21 assault rifle, seized from the army in April, at an army helicopter overhead.

Competing personalities vied for dominance among the disordered Ronin, but the bearded man who spoke little was calling the shots for now. "Do you know who is in charge here?" he said. "It's me." At least until another unnamed commandant he described as second to Khattiya arrived to assume command and investigate why journalists were with the gunmen.

''Not Terrorists Not Violent; Only Peaceful and Democracy,'' read a banner hanging outside the barrier of jumbled tires. Inside, it was an open secret who the gunmen were; no less secrete were the perimeter bombs, connected by dirty gray cables, designed to inflict heavy casualties on any advancing government army soldiers.

http://www.morungexpress.com/columnists/49710.html

Are there no red apologists can explain the above videos away? I'm disappointed. I realise that it might stress your creative flair, but you could at least have a go.

The Red apologists would say that they are just fake MIB impersonating the army, sent in by the government to confuse everyone

By saintofsilence at 2009-07-19

By saintofsilence at 2009-07-19

By saintofsilence at 2009-07-19

Come on people, time for a reality check Nes pas? Any of you that have lived and worked in Thailand for a while and traveled around a bit will know that the next election will be won by which ever party is aligned with Thaksin. I am not casting aspersions on the intelligence of the fine people of Isaan but it is a fact that they (at least the majority of them) have no access to the information sources of most of you and get to listen to the village headman waffling on every morning over the loudspeakers about the merits of Mr. Thaksin. Political campaigning in Thailand is not the same as in western countries and the people vote according to instructions from their vilage headman.

Whilst I admire the restraint and integrity displayed by Mr. Abhisit during this crisis, there is no place in Thai politics for an honest PM! Without fail polticians and their close confederates need a like minded person in the position of power so that they can continue to keep their snouts in the trough!

I dont dispute that there is a large disparity between the urban rich and the rural poor but the one man that has genuinely made an attempt to redress this imbalance through introducing some progressive policies (health, education and debt forgiveness) has NO chance of winning the next election, whenever it is held. I have great admiration for Mr. Abhisit and feel very sad for the Thai people because they will always take the 500 Baht in the pocket today rather than look at the bigger picture.

After the next election the cycle will start again and we will go through the same process of coup, coalition, protests and election with a few deaths and burned down buildings thrown into the mix.

So sad that their political system will never allow open and fair elections free of corruption and with the free flow of information being available so that the people can make an informed decision after balancing the speeches of each candidate.

Returning Thaksin's cronies to power will only perpetuate the spiral of the poor getting poorer and the rich getting richer. So sad that they cannot see that they are being exploited by the people that they think have their best interests at heart.

Rant over!!

Great post

The one question I have is do you think they have enough money left to buy another election.

On another point I don't see talked about is did the red shirts get all the money they were promised. It is a safe bet the leaders did.

Also how much backing do the red shirts have. Here in Chiang Mai the heart of red shirt country 300 rioters came home and only 100 came out to welcome them. Just wondering oops moree than one question

1. Yes, I believe they have enough money!

2. I personally never saw money change hands but I would agree with you that the leaders were well paid based on statements from a few of them.

3. I don't live in Chiang Mai but I would venture to say that there is strong red shirt support throughout the North and North East mainly for the reasons stated in my earlier post but also because the police seemed to do nothing when people were burning down government buildings in the region, that lack of action indicates to me that there were many red shirt sympathisers in police uniform.

I fully agree it certainly looks like the police held back , Abhisit is a great Leader for Thailands future but due to the way these reds are educated about politics they will never give him the respect and credit he deserves.

continued from above

-- long letter deleted --

I think it's interesting and also a bit disturbing that there are that many references to youtube videos.

As both sides have shown, it's too easy to position a clip in a certain way especially if the context is unverifiable. I'm not saying any is lying, but none seem to concerned with the truth or have their version of it.

It puts it all into nice package and makes the terrorism charge a lot stronger.

continued from above

An open letter to Interpol from a Thai PhD in politics and international relations in UK

Posted by Yoon , Reader : 827 , 09:18:19

16 th April 2010: Red shirts bomb attacks at three high voltage electricity pylons in Ayuthaya's Bang Pa-in district were intended to plunge parts of Bangkok into darkness. See http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/security/3...lackout-averted (breach of item 2 as above-listed). On the same day , two high-ranking officers were taken hostage by Red Shirt protesters. See http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world...i-1225854613652 (breach of item 3).

21st April 2010: Thousands of Red Shirt protestors halted a train entering Bangkok. Source http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Red-Shirts-B...-T-t358129.html

23rd April 2010: Red shirt protestors attacked unarmed civilians at Silom, a commercial district in Bangkok, with four granades resulting in 3 casualities and 75 injuries. See http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/security/3...ror-grips-silom (breach of item 1, 2, and 4 as above listed).

27th April 2010: Red shirt protesters interfered with crucial CCTV cameras and dumped car tires on the rail track of Bangkok Sky Train. This act would have caused thousands of casualties, had the railway company not found out and halted its operations in time. See http://www.ttrweekly.com/site/2010/04/bts-...mes-operations/ (breach of item 1 and 2, the elements of terrorism acts).

29th Apr 2010: More than 200 Red Shirt guards raided Chulalongkorn hospital, resulting in the evacuation of patients and caused some deaths. See

19th May 2010: Red Shirt Protestors used small children at barricades as human shield. This act is condemned by international humanitarian institutions. See http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/...-civil-war.html

On the same day, Red Shirt Protestors set fires on more than 36 important sites of Bangkok including Bangkok headquarters of Channel 3 television, where around 100 people were trapped inside. Massive fires caused the collapse of Thailand’s largest shopping mall Central World. Refer to http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...k-30130187.html (breach of item 1 based on the elements of terrorism acts listed by The International Humanitarian Law). On the same day, Red Shirt Protestors attacked journalists. Reporters Without Borders condemns the violence against journalists by Red Shirt demonstrators. International law clearly states that journalists cannot be targets. Source http://en.rsf.org/a-second-journalist-kill...2010,37509.html (breach of item 1 as listed above). The United Nations and the U.S. officials also condemn Red Shirt’s substantial burning and looting in neighborhoods throughout Bangkok, and sporadic violence throughout the country. Gordon Duguid, the US State Department Deputy Spokesman, said "However, we are deeply concerned that Red Shirt supporters have engaged in arson, targeting the electricity infrastructure and media outlets, and have attacked individual journalists. We condemn such behavior and call on UDD [Red Shirt] leaders and affiliated opposition politicians to urge their supporters to stop such acts."

Post 19 th may 2010-today: Arsons by Thaksin red-shirted supporters spread to other parts of Thailand including Khon Kaen, Chiang Mai , Udon Thani, Mukdahan and Ubon Ratchthani. See

In addition to these violent attacks, Thaksin supporters also set up long-term road blockages in commercial districts of Rachaprasong and Lumpini Park, and blockage of Pan Fa Bridge and roads leading to Bangkok, the capital of Thailand. These have had tremendous effect on businesses and daily lives of common people and the national economy alike. It cost Thailand the loss of billions of baht and contributed to Thai people’s increasing debt and unemployment. Thaksin supporters also attacked a number of officials’ residential homes with bombs.

Red Shirt Movement is a violent, sophisticated, armed and well-trained group. The authorities discovered piles of war weapons used by Red Shirt Protesters. Source http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/Thai-...e-94654479.html Thaksin has been found involving with these protests by means of direct funding with billions of baht transferring regularly from him to Red Shirt leaders. Connections are found between Thaksin and armed militias. He is also charged for fomenting the conflicts. Thailand’s Department of Special Investigations provided the Criminal Court documents and clips of Thaksin speaking from abroad via video link to red-shirt rallies. Much of his speech stirred up violent attacks to both officials and civilians. He has publicly expressed support for the Red Shirts' cause. Red Shirt Protestors seeking pardon for Thaksin of his corruption charge (17 th August 2009) and many pictures of Thaksin found in the Red Shirts’ camp indicate further linkages between the two parties. See

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp...1057068/1/.html

According to the International Humanitarian Law, there is no obstacle to the fight against terrorism. Indeed, suspected terrorists can be prosecuted for acts of terrorism. The International Humanitarian Law indicates that states have the obligation and right to defend their citizens against terrorist attacks. This may include the arrest and detention of persons suspected of terrorist crimes. Such persons may be imprisoned until any sentence imposed has been served. Read the full text of the Fourth Geneva Convention . This letter lists out terrorism acts conducted by Thaksin-led and funded Red Shirt (UDD) movement. It also gathers any evidence available to the public. We will be circulating this letter for the Thai citizens to sign to show this is a true Thai voice. We believe that the work of your team and institution will serve justice to the millions of Thais affected by chaos and terrorism acts fomented and carried out by Mr. Thaksin Shinawatra. We kindly urge you to please send him back to Thailand to face his charges.

Thaksin is believed to hold passports from several countries and is based primarily in Dubai. Authorities in the United Arab Emirates have said he could remain there. Latest reports (as of 28 May 2010) indicated that Thaksin is residing in the seaside resort of Budva, in Montenegro, where he has obtained Montenegrin citizenship.

Please find attached photos of these evidences. For detailed information of Thaksin’s movements, please do not hesitate to contact me or visit http://www.facebook.com/#!/group.php?gid=109050695804673 . For official evidence of Thaksin’s investigations, please refer to Thailand’s Department of Special Investigation, Information Technology Center, 128 Moo 3 Chaengwattana Road, Thungsonghong Sub-district, Laksi District, Bangkok 10210 THAILAND

TEL. +66 2 821 9888 FAX +66 2 975 9811 http://www.dsi.go.th/eng/index.php

Yours sincerely,

Miss Deekana Tipchanta

PhD in Politics and International Relations

United Kingdom

For complete letter : http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ThaiTalk/2010/05/29/entry-1

Saturday , May 29 , 2010

An open letter to Interpol from a Thai PhD in politics and international relations in UK

NTERPOL

General Secretariat,

200, quai Charles de Gaulle

69006 Lyon

France

28 th May 2010

Dear Sir/Madam,

The Thai Criminal Court has issued an arrest warrant for Thaksin on terrorism charges for allegedly involving in the red protests in Bangkok that left 88 people dead and 2,000 injured. I am writing to kindly urge you to cooperate with Thailand authority in extraditing Thaksin back to Thailand on ground of terrorism acts.

The Internaitonal Humanitarian Law specifically prohibits "measures of terrorism" and "acts of terrorism". The Fourth Geneva Convention ( Article 33 ) states that "Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited", while Additional Protocol II ( Article 4 ) prohibits "acts of terrorism" against persons not or no longer taking part in hostilities. The main aim is to emphasise that neither individuals, nor the civilian population may be subject to collective punishments, which, among other things, obviously induce a state of terror. Both Additional Protocols to the Geneva Conventions also prohibit acts aimed at spreading terror among the civilian population. "The civilian population as such, as well as individual civilians, shall not be the object of attack. Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited" (AP I, Article 51 (2) and AP II, Article 13 (2)). IHL also prescribes the following acts, which could be considered as terrorist attacks:

1) attacks on civilians and civilian objects (Arts. 51, para. 2, and 52, Protocol I; and Art. 13, Protocol II); indiscriminate attacks (Art. 51, para. 4, Protocol I);

2) attacks on works and installations containing dangerous forces (Art. 56, Protocol I; and Art. 15, Protocol II);

3) the taking of hostages (Art. 75, Protocol I; Art. 3 common to the four Conventions; and Art. 4, para. 2b, Protocol II);

4) murder of persons not or no longer taking part in hostilities (Art. 75, Protocol I; Art. 3 common to the four Conventions; and Art. 4, para. 2a, Protocol II).

I hereby sample some of many Thaksin-funded/led Red Shirt (also known as UDD)’s activities considered as terrorism acts based on The International Humanitarian Law as above-mentioned. The following events are listed by a chronological order, provided with evidence from a variety of independent sources available to public, and numbered in brackets in accordance to the International Humanitarian Law it breaches.

February 2003: Thaksin’s War on Drugs exceeded the killing of over 600 people in one month. Both Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch expressed grave concern about the rapid rise in apparent police murders of drug suspects. Source http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/27...ailandwar.shtml (breach of item 1).

25th October 2004: Thaksin ordered a massacre at Takbai, the Southern region of Thailand, causing thousands of deaths and ongoing conflicts. The killing drew international condemnation. See

07th Apr 2009: Red-shirt protestors attacked Thailand Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjachiwa’s car, smashing his window and threatening his life. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BUuS3-qILk for reference (breach of item 1 as abovementioned).

11th Apr 2009: Red Shirt (UDD) protesters raided the venue of the ASEAN summit in Pattaya, forcing its cancellation. Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva resultantly declared a state of emergency. See http://jp.reuters.com/news/video?videoChan...;videoId=101851 (breach of item 1 as abovementioned).

13 th April 2009: Red shirt protesters threatened to blow up a liquid gas truck in the midst of the Din Daeng flats, Bangkok. An act could have cost hundreds of casualties.

27th Feb 2010: Red Shirt group launched granade attacks at several Thailand’s banks. Refer to http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/3364...fter-bomb-blast (breach of item 2). On the same day, Red Shirt protestors attacked Thailand Television Station Channel 5 using m67 hand grenades (breach of item 1).

30th March 2010: An attack on the charitable foundation headed by Privy Council president Prem Tinsulanonda were carried out by Thaksin supporters using M67 hand grenades (breach of item 1).

07th April 2010: Red shirt protestors stormed the parliament using a truck to break the gates. Source http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/As...407-208969.html (breach of item 2 as abovementioned International Humanitarian Law).

08 th April 2010: Armed attacks by the same group included the attacks on the New Politics Party headquarters and TPI Building in Bangkok and the attack at the party's head office on Phra Sumen Road took place. Police found 11 spent M16 cartridges, a spent M79 shell and an unexploded M79 grenade after the incidence (breach of item 2).

09th April 2010: Red-shirt protestors stormed Police Hospital. Refer to http://www.demotix.com/news/297461/red-shi...ospital-bangkok (breach of item 1 and 2 as above-listed).

10 th April 2010: Red Shirt protestors stormed Thailand Television station. On the same day, the government clashed with the Red Shirt Protestors. Independent investigations and witnesses ensured t here are military trained and heavily armed men within the Red Shirt Protestors. This caused casualties of both civilians and military officials. See

16 th April 2010: Red shirts bomb attacks at three high voltage electricity pylons in Ayuthaya's Bang Pa-in district were intended to plunge parts of Bangkok into darkness. See http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/security/3...lackout-averted (breach of item 2 as above-listed). On the same day , two high-ranking officers were taken hostage by Red Shirt protesters. See http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/world...i-1225854613652 (breach of item 3).

continued http://blog.nationmultimedia.com/ThaiTalk/2010/05/29/entry-1

Big Brother is also watching Thai Visa Forum , I'm not sure how he filters out the truth but there is a hel_l of a lot of B S on here

If you understood Thai, you would know that he's talking about the PENSION PROGRAM of 500 Baht for old Thais. I often see this video mentioned as being proof of 500 Baht being paid to every protester. Well, I'm sorry to say but it's not. He's talking about the 500 Baht pension for elderly citizens.

Make sure you check with your in house translater in future before claiming you heard it.

Yes I think Interpol will act

If Thaksin thinks that the Montenegro Authorities will not assist Interpol he should read this

Montenegro police make latest Pink Panther arrest

With INTERPOL in July 2007 having set up Project Pink Panthers, an international cell co-ordinating worldwide police intelligence across its 188 member countries against the gang, the arrest of Vuckovic in Montenegro represents the latest in a series of arrests of Pink Panther suspects in recent years by police worldwide working in liaison with INTERPOL’s Pink Panthers Project, including high-profile arrests in Cyprus, France and Monaco.

“Vuckovic’s arrest once again demonstrates the benefits of law enforcement around the world sharing essential information which can be followed up by police on the ground and produce results, in particular in the search for fugitives,” said INTERPOL’s Executive Director of Police Services, Jean-Michel Louboutin.

“INTERPOL therefore congratulates the Montenegrin, Austrian and Serbian authorities for their collaborative efforts which led to the arrest of this wanted individual,” added Mr Louboutin

http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/PressR...R2010/PR028.asp

Anyone voting yes needs to go look up what terrorism means in a dictionary, or google it.

Could you give us further details why he is not guilty of Terrorism ? Or your actual google links stating it is not Terrorism .

Suthep tells US ambassador red-shirt protests organized by Thaksin

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban said Thursday that he had warned the US ambassador to Thailand to be careful next time before dealing with the red-shirt movement, saying fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra was behind the turmoil caused by the red-shirt protesters.

Suthep recounted that US ambassador Eric G. John met him at the Government House Wednesday to explain why US Deputy Secretary of State Kurt Campbell met former foreign minister Noppadol Pattama and former deputy prime minister Chaturon Chaisang during a brief visit to Bangkok.

Suthep quoted the ambassador as explaining that Campbell met the two in their capacity as former Cabinet members and Campbell wanted to meet Thai government leaders but an arrangement could not be made as the government was busy.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Suthe...a-30130340.html

Suthep said he told the ambassador that the red-shirt protests were systematically planned and established and the red-shirt leaders received orders from Thaksin.

How about a poll on

Did you support the reds

Do you still report the reds

I do not understand how this twenty-plus storey building (Central World) burnt so disastrously.

What happened to all the fire-fighting devices that are built into any-and-all major structures these days - fire-compartmentalisation - fire doors - sprinkler systems - smoke vents - fire-proof seals on all duct-work - so on and so on?

Is Thailand one of the few countries, such as Burkino-Faso, where such precautions are ignored?

If Central World could burn like that, what are the chances of surviving in one of the major hotels in the same area?

I trust that any travel agency sending people to Thailand in the future is well covered for their own insurance, as well as insisting that the travellers take out their own insurance.

(Not that that would help them, but their surviving relatives back home may welcome some cash)

as already stated, building had sprinklers, just water & power turned off by authorities.

It would take massive use of accelerants to do this with or without sprinklers

I work at Off at Central World and our IT guys have been allowed in again now. They talked to the guards who were working there throughout the whole occupation. The guards said that the "peaceful demonstrators" put gas tanks out ***Long Before*** the soldiers moved in (cooking gas tanks).

When time came, the smashed the windows, opened the valves on the gas tanks and threw them in, and spiced it all with molotov cocktails (M-150 bottles and other bottles of different sizes, filled with petrol), then threw in grenades to light it all up

So much for peaceful demonstrators...

"The peaceful reds with Gas Tanks '' I'm Shocked

Thailand has been a member of Interpol since 1951 , and Financing of Terrorism will be looked at by them including other charges ,Thaksin's remark that they will not act on it because it is politicaly motivated will only fuel the fire more.

http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/Genera...s/AGN68RES2.asp

I voted yes because if he has been funding the reds and videos show he incited violence and he told the reds what to do and even said he would join them, this is terrorism .