connda

Just curious but does anyone know if the water has reached Thapae Soi 1. I'm currently out of town but would like to know.

Not enough solid evidence to get into heated debates about racism or foreigner-hatred.

Actually, statistically, I'd walk just about anywhere in Bangkok or any other Thai city. Statistically, attacks like this -- if substantiated -- are at best rare. This is still a wonderful country, and these are very unique and interesting people. One off violence is abhorrent, and it happens, but it shouldn't keep you from interacting with the Thai people or them with you. There are stupid, xenophobic, crazy, angry people all over the world. But they are a small percentage of the population. Get out into rural Thailand where I live. Yeah -- I'm truly a one-off. One farang in about 3000 Thai. But for me -- I couldn't ask for a better opportunity to live among Thais and understand Thai (and Lanna) culture.

I'm a very Caucasian guy and I use to walk around East and West Oakland, CA in the 1980s. In the 1980s, especially in West Oakland, that was probably pretty crazy for me to do. But the racism I saw wasn't against me as a individual, but me as a white person walking in an all black neighborhood. There are places in Oakland that I would not go now (although interesting enough, West Oakland isn't too bad anymore).

Racism is a universal trait. I feel sorry for those who cannot see the universality of this human condition. It's sad.

I'm happy I'm in Thailand and 99.999% of the people I meet accept me, even if they harbor questionably racist feelings emotionally -- which they themselves may not really understand. But if they take the time to talk with me, they find that I'm not much different then they are. Just a different cultural perspective.

And how do you spell: Xenophobia?

Foreigner bad! Thai good!

Well, then again...that's unless you want to LOOK more like a Farang like just about every Thai in Thailand. Then White good! Brown bad! Dark brown really bad.

As much as I love this country, it can be a very sad, and psychotic country sometimes.

Why the heck would someone spray acid on Farangs is beyond me??? I feel sorry for them and their victims.

Considering that Taskin's daughter is at the helm of this ship of state, I think it's a foregone conclusion that he'll be fast-tracked back into the country with open arms. The criminal justice system, in any country, is primarily in place to control the behavior of the "little people". The rich have the money, power, and political clout to eventually by-pass the system. Mr. Taskin will be walking freely in this country soon. He's one of the uber-rich who gets the type of "justice" that you and I (and 99.999% of the population of the world) will never see.

I took the word, "fair", out of my dictionary some 30 odd years ago while in boot-camp. I remember marching all day and then having to do calisthenics in the middle of the night before being allowed to go to bed. My company commander was yelling at the top of his voice, "Take the word FAIR out of your dictionary!" That little piece of advice has served me well over time. You learn to let go of the uncontrollable aspects in life.

As for "Justice"? I'm thinking: Mai bpen rai! Miracle Thailand!

I'm seriously looking at the Lifan 250. I'm primarily going to use the bike to cruise from my apartment in Chiang Mai to my home south of Lamphun off of Highway 11. I'm interested in knowing what the highway cruising speed of this bike and how stable it is at it's top end speed. I basically want to be able to drive with the cars instead of being forced over to the left side of the road , and I'm hoping this Lifan can cruise comfortably in the 110 to 120 kph range. If you have driven one can you let me know?

Thanks!

I'm sure Mrs. Trotnow's brother can reveil the motorbike taxi driver and maybe even the gang of assaultants - - NOT

Risking your life for THB 100 is meaningless. Downing the driver was not very smart...

Stay away from the Patong rat hole.

Downing the driver was ignorantly stupid. Live and learn (or learn and die as may be). Stay away from Tuk Tuk drivers at all tourist destinations -- learn how to ride in Songtaews. If you do take a Tuk Tuk, negotiate the price before you set foot inside -- and trust your instincts: is the driver loud, pushy, belligerent, smells of alcohol, looks glassy eyed -- find another driver. Stay away from Puket and Pattaya. Don't get physical with any Thai male unless you're Jet Li or are a black belt in Krav Marga or know how to defend yourself against multiple weapon-wielding attackers at the same time. Cut back on your alcohol consumption if you can't control yourself cause you'll end up getting hurt or killed. Life's cheap...you may win the battle but you won't win the war -- you win a fist fight today and end up stopping a bullet a couple of days later -- and nobody will see a thing. Yeah, it ain't fair. But this ain't the West -- but it's more like the West West. Welcome to The Lane of Smiles. Learn to adapt.

Smile. Be respectful. Don't lose your temper. Call the tourist police to mediate -- you may not come out ahead, but is your life and your health really worth a measly 200 or 300 baht? And anyway, if your tying up the driver's time with the police, he isn't making money. He might settle for a lesser amount. Rip-offs happen all the time. If you're taken advantage of -- learn from your ignorance and don't make the same mistake twice. Share your experience with fellow tourists and expats -- forewarned is forearmed. Suck it up...and remember -- smile!

Amazing Thailand -- It's a Miracle anyone comes to Thailand for a vacation any more. Rip-offs, Scams, Corruption, Xenophobia, two-tiered pricing, unmetered taxis...etc., etc....

I'm sure this new campaign will provide ample cannon fodder for this forum for awhile. "Hey you -- where you from? Tuk-tuk. I take you to see laying Buddha...big swing...palace. Just $30!"

It's a miracle if some scam artist doesn't make the unsuspecting Farang tourist part with his money. :jap:

I have a "Marriage Extension" to my Non-B visa. I keep two bank accounts: one for funds that I use and one 400,000 baht "frozen account" strictly for the visa extension. I've found the simpler you make it for immigration the better.

How unwise to make it more cumbersome for people to apply for a tourist visa just as a global recession is about to take hold.

If you truly want families and quality tourists here, how about these long term measures:

- Police reform to battle corruption. Like in South Korea. If they could do it, so can you. It's 2011 now, time to get real.

- Clean up the prostitution from the major tourist spots. Most tourists in the family category tend not to be impressed by prostitution in their face, and the prostitution business is a magnet for undesirables, both Thais and foreigners.

- Educate Thai electricians properly so fewer tourists are electrocuted in the shower. Parents tend to be quite upset when their children die because of neglect and incompetence.

- Regulate and ENFORCE the use of pesticides and insecticides so you won't have to wring your hands after tourists "inexplicably" drop dead in hotels and from eating poisonous food. Research, educate and encourage organic growth practices, natural and least dangerous pest control measures. Make sure the knowledge gets all the way to the actual farmers by engaging the village networks.

- Arrest ALL beggars on sight, interrogate them about their conditions and mafia networks, gather enough evidence, appropriate the assets of the leaders of the trafficking rings, give harsh punishments (fines and jail time) to everyone else involved or benefitting, use the money/assets collected in fines to rehabilitate and educate the beggars where possible. Keep up these arrests until it simple becomes too much hassle to beg or to benefit from begging.

- Clean up the scamming in tourist areas. That includes jet ski scams, gem scams, card game scams, and all the others.

- Get rid of the "dual pricing" model and stop gouging tourists.

A rose by any other name is still a rose. Seedy or not when a lady goes to work in a bar selling her body she loses claim to being a moral person. It is a hard business and effects all who enter it even for a short period of time. 10% of Thailand is involved in one way or another with the naughty night life. That leaves 90% that is not. Out of that 90% another 30% are probably effected mentally or financially. As much as I like bar girls or good girls who act like part time bar girls they are still what they are. Maybe a Farang gets lucky and a couple of kids changes the equation. Maybe.

However the majority 60% of Thailand would never consider selling their body regardless of their financial circumstances. I don't see that percent changing. Thailand has had a long and colorful career as a fun country from the days of the clipper ships to the present.

You're obviously someone who resides on the lofty slopes of the moral high-ground. So let me ask you a few questions:

Have you ever lied?

Have you ever cheated on a test or when playing a game?

Have you ever taken something that wasn't yours?

Have you ever had sex out of wedlock?

Have you ever gotten intoxicated and then done something you regretted later?

Have you ever intentionally hurt anybody (physically, emotionally, economically)?

Have you ever broken a law?

If you answered "no" to all these, you are truly a saint and my hat's off to you.

If you answered "yes" to any of these, then you obviously have a "line in the sand" where you consider some immoral acts to be OK, and other immoral acts to not be OK.

Sort of hypocritical -- don't you think?

Interestingly enough, I've know women who have worked in the business, many of whom are practicing Buddhists...some who attend temple on a regular basis. Moral? Immoral?

Define Morality. Where do you draw your line in sands of righteousness?

Sex tourism can be banished when Thai police are first educated on what Prostitution really means! A newspaper article once carried an article that the police invaded a pub for prostitution... I guess it was very hard finding one in Pattaya. it is mind boggling as to how they differentiated or filtered their search. Hmmmm Very hard ching ching!!!! <div><br></div>

Obviously a pub who forgot to pay their bribe money.

But there needs to be a crackdown foreigners seeking underage women, and women being forced into prostitution.

All prostitutes are beeing "forced" into it, one way or another, even tho they put on a fake smile pretend to be happy.

Forced by beeing extremely poor, or forced by their parents and grandparents because they want money.

Do you seriously think that these girls goes happily into prostutution because they want to?

"Do you seriously think that these girls goes happily into prostutution because they want to?"

I hate to piss on your parade, but quite a few do, and for a number of different reasons. I like to have a few beers each evening and have a number of working girls as friends - they all know my long term g/f and also know that I don't play around. I help them with English and we discuss any number of subjects.

Jai Dee works bars because she doesn't want to be anybody's servant, and to be economically independent. Now in her mid-40s she owns land and businesses in her home province which she would place at risk by marrying a Thai man, and she has refused several offers from farangs.

I knew Noi's mother in Oz where she ran a Thai restaurant until deported. I visited them in BKK, met Noi, her husband and 2 kids - husband an electronics engineer, seemed a good guy. Mum and Noi came down to Samui to visit, Mum goes home and Noi is working in a bar &lt;deleted&gt;? Last heard she is living in Germany with new husband.

Many of the girls in any one bar come from the same village. One comes down to try it, sends the word home, next thing you know every girl in the village wants to give it a go. Phone, bike, gold, make-up, flash clothes, money in their pocket, dancing all night - beats the crap out of planting rice in Duckville, just outside Nakhon Nowhere. Maybe tonight's boyfriend isn't the Thai stud of her dreams, but he's a lot less likely to give her a punch in the mouth and empty her wallet.

Some turn into seasonal workers, showing up every year like xmas beetles. They usually borrow to do it (I have lent a few thou to friends, and been paid back, in cash), but go home after 3-4 months with a new set of clobber and enough to live on for the rest of the year. Not many have husbands, same reason as Jai Dee.

This culture has a completely different attitude to sex, and to women's position in society. Don't make assumptions based on your own values.

Excellent post! You understand!

What I don't understand are the expats living in 2 million baht houses in gated communities (or serviced condos in the cities) who marginally speak Thai (if at all), don't read Thai at all, maybe have made one of two trips to Pattaya, Soi Cowboy, or Nana Plaza (and probably are guilt ridden) and are somehow experts on all of these "prostitutes" and "whores" in Thailand. About the time I hear the words "prostitutes" or "whores" coming out of the mouth of an expat (as though all these women are morally bankrupt and come from the underbelly of Thai society), I know I'm talking to someone who is culturally and morally biased. And they don't understand how pervasive and open this is in Thai society. I'll give an example. In any city in Thailand you can get a massage for anywhere between 100 baht to 400 baht an hour depending on how fancy the place is. Average price...maybe 175 baht per hour. In Korat (if you read Thai) there are many samlaws (three wheeled bicycle taxis for those who don't know) which have advertising placards displayed on the rear of the carriage. The advertisement is for a local Thai "Massage" shop that is advertising a 998 baht special. What sort of massage do you think you get for 998 baht? And they aren't catering to Farangs! If you read Thai, you see it everywhere. If you have Thai friends (especially from rural Thailand) you'll see it first hand.

"Prostitutes?" "Whores?" What sort of moral high-ground do expats like this think they are on??? These folks need to wake up or go back to whatever country they came from (or keep hiding in their gated communities living in ignorant self-righteousness).

Sex tourism can be banished when Thai police are first educated on what Prostitution really means! A newspaper article once carried an article that the police invaded a pub for prostitution... I guess it was very hard finding one in Pattaya. it is mind boggling as to how they differentiated or filtered their search. Hmmmm Very hard ching ching!!!! <div><br></div>

Trust me...the Thai police understand what Prostitution really means. Why do you think they "mistakenly" invaded the pub? If you understand the concept of "tea money", then the light bulb should switch on. [click]

Sex tourism can be banished when Thai police are first educated on what Prostitution really means! A newspaper article once carried an article that the police invaded a pub for prostitution... I guess it was very hard finding one in Pattaya. it is mind boggling as to how they differentiated or filtered their search. Hmmmm Very hard ching ching!!!! <div><br></div>

Obviously a pub who forgot to pay their bribe money.

But there needs to be a crackdown foreigners seeking underage women, and women being forced into prostitution.

All prostitutes in Thailand are beeing "forced" into it, one way or another.

Forced by beeing extremely poor, or forced by their parents and grandparents because they want money.

Do you seriously think that any girl goes happily into prostutution because she wants to?

Hummmm. Some do. A good example is Uni students who "plays for pay" in order to supplement whatever their parents are giving them. Other women have a choice between making 8000 baht / month (a pretty average salary) working a "normal" job or making 15K, 20K or more doing p4p activities. Any expat who has lived in Thailand more than 3 years and doesn't understand this is either living a pretty sheltered life or has their head buried in the sand...or they're just ignorant (I don't mean "ignorant" in a bad way. I mean "ignorant" in the sense that they have never experienced that side of Thai society first-hand). Live in a rural Thai village for a while (like I do) or live in the Thai part of a big city (like I did) and really get to know the people. And open your eyes. It not that difficult to see if you're able to drop your ingrained Western biases and moral self-righteousness.

Necessary to make parents/guardians responsible ... asap.

As in nearly every situation in this land, Parental responsibility. There are no rules in most homes in Thailand it's called FREESTYLE.....................................What laws that are in place in the country in most cases are NOT applied, so therefore who cares really what the spoilt kids do at home. The problems begin from cradle to moving from the home for good..................Parents==get a grip show them who's boss-give love and get respect in return. Government -make the parents responsible.

Obviously I agree .. and it will be a hard struggle here (and many other countries as well)

Closing the schools is like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

In the Thai culture, children aren't responsible for anything. The parents spoil them, the teachers coddle them, society holds them blameless. And this is a perfect example: don't hold the kids responsible -- shift the blame to the school -- punish the entire student body for the failings of a handful of willful, undisciplined, spoiled brats. Or if you wish to be more "Westernized" about it, shift the blame to the parent. This is a cultural issue...it's not going to change very quickly. Loss of self control is not a trait that's condoned in Thai society anyway.

Bottom line: Necessary to make offending children responsible ... asap. The parents and the schools have a responsibility too -- that is to become part of the solution, not part of the problem.

Not sure why a diplomat in India stating that they are promoting family tourism is news. This is a non story, although I'm sure this will get lots of ridiculous replies though.

I also don't understand why so many people get into such a tizwoz over sex. If it didn't happen, we wouldn't be here, most people indulge in it (in one way or another) and the majority of them enjoy it. Furthermore, some of the Thai Ladies in the sex industry do not want to do anything else - they enjoy the every night party scene and consider that sex goes with the territory. They are horrified at the thought of doing boring housekeeping, or waitressing or some such other job they are capable of doing, but might entail hardwork. I know, in my naivety of thinking I am saving them from "the sins of the body", have offered them these sort of jobs, with a good salary, food and accommodation. No chance, and anyway many believe they may find the man of their dreams who will give them (and their Family) a comfortable life and live happily ever after. In my experience there are many areas and activities in Thailand that are very much for the Family and sex is "not in your face" so to say. On the other hand, there are what appear to be quite distinctive areas where the sex industry is thriving. If you find it offensive, don't go there! Sure the Country is a mass of opposing contradictions and is rife with corruption, but for all it's idiosyncrasies and failings, I would much rather live here than anywhere else in the World. Finally, medical advice is that sex is good for you and gives you that "feel good factor" copulate coitus maximus (did I just say that!!).:jap:

+1 Agreed

The Shinawatra are clearly back in the driving seat

Yes, changing the perception of the knock shop of SE Asia, to a family run kleptocracy.

You betchya the Shinawatra clan are back in busines.

The only upside? His kids aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.

George (Dubya) Bush. wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed either, and look at the damage he did.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaa!

Does anyone know where Wat Mae Taeng is. I've been told it's approximately 40km north of Chiang Mai. I'm trying to find the location of the Wat once I get in that area.

Direction using roads would be cool. A Google Placemark to the Wat would be perfect.

Thanks!

This will keep happening until the Thai police decide to actually issue moving citations, especially for violations involving right of way violations.

Are there any good english language books or movies about the forest tradition? I've read the book "The Buddha in the Jungle" by Kamala Tiyavanich, which is an interesting collection of stories. Anything else?

Being Dharma: The Essence of the Buddha's Teachings

Ajahn Chah

Translated by Paul Breiter

What I like about this set of tranlated discourses is that Ajahn Chah brings the complexities of Buddhist philosophy down to the level that can be understood equally by a poor, superstitious Issan rice farmer as well as a somewhat self-centered, consumer-driven American (like myself). And it's done with humor and compassion, but also with a constant admonishment to "get to work". It can be read from cover to cover, or just open a page and start reading. I highly recommend it.

You can practice with our karate club. We don't kick bags every practice. However, it is still a good workout... and it's free.

Japan Karate Institute Wado Kai, Chiang Mai

MSPain

Sensei Mike. Thanks for the offer. I'd be interested. What should I bring with me if I attend.

Thanks!

Dan Alexander

I'd like to work out using a full size kicking bag. I don't want to have to join a Muey Thai gym or pay the 300 to 400 baht a day they want for training. I'm an old retired farang on a fixed income and contrary to common belief, I'm not made out of money. So I'd like to pay maybe no more than 50 baht a day to do bag work.

Does anyone know a gym like this. I'm getting really tired that everyone thinks I'm rich because of the color of my skin. I just want to train as inexpensively as possible.

If you can help, thanks!

I had some specific conceptions (or perhaps misconceptions) of what Buddhism was (or wasn’t) in Thailand when I first arrived. Those have been pretty well shaken to the core.

I’ll make a very general statement that no one necessarily needs to agree with me on. As a Westerner, your concepts of Buddhism will probably me more aligned to one of the Thai Forest Sangha. I personally see an over-emphasis on the concept of money, the use of money, and what looks to be a disregard for the Vinyana in the city based traditions. Maybe I’m just a stupid Farang – but I don’t think so. I believe you may find a more disciplined approach to seeking an end to suffering within the confines of the Forest Tradition.

I'm tired of doing web searches for inexpensive hotels (300 to 500 baht a night) in Ubon Ratchathani. I'm sure there are some, just not well advertised. I'm not a tourist, I'm visiting and need a place to "sleep" for two nights. Clean would be nice. Any ideas.

Police to release sketch of gunman killing Lop Buri Provincial Administration Organisation head in Bangkok after inspecting surveillance camera records /MCOT