mike111

Folllow up on my reply - foreigners being allowed entry:

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1940456/green-light-for-foreigners

1. That can also be interpreted as trying to book the holiday before July 1st - that was my understanding.

2. Studios in VT2 are 37sqm and 41sqm so much larger than the usual Pattaya shoeboxes.

What a polite gentleman. Feel free not to reply  - I won't.

Where did you see the OP was looking for a short term (daily) rental? it's not mentioned anywhere.

Why not book a studio in one of the well-maintained condos near the beach like View Talay 2?. You'll have your kitchen and a room which is  much larger than one in a hotel. I've done that a few times, worked beautifully.

It's all up in the air now but based on Bangkok Post visitors may gradually be allowed within 1...3 months. Keep an eye on the news.

13 hours ago, HauptmannUK said:

My impression is that in the last couple of years the Chinese and Indians were driving a large chunk of the condo market. So the Rupee and RMB would be the currencies of interest. Certainly a lot of recent projects have targeted Chinese buyers.  Prior to that the Russians were strong buyers, until the Rouble fell off a cliff.  Not sure the AUS$ has ever influenced the price of anything in Thailand, there are not enough Aussies around to have that sort of impact.

Plenty of Aussies in View Talay 2 (where I usually stay), so the AUD exchange rate definitely had an impact, at least on rents.

Chinese and Indians tend to buy new units in the recent mega-projects so that would impact prices there but not in the 2nd hand market. As I've written above, it would be interesting to see the condition of these mega-projects in 3-5 years once owners stop paying their common fees (common practice in condominiums in China).

11 hours ago, baansgr said:

I would have agreed with this a few years ago. Prices in VT have dropped, both sales and rentals...Also there isn't the customer base as previously so very hard to find tenants even befor Covid. 

Again, from my experience staying there multiple times including last year is that the place was busy, at least in the September-March period.  Obviously this year could be different if borders don't open but that's an anomaly.

Regarding prices falling - the condo market, both sales and rentals, is strongly influenced by foreigners. In June 2016 1 USD= 36 THB while now it's now it's around 31 - a  14% appreciation. For the Aussie $ is was 26 in June 16 and around 22 now - a similar trend. Accordingly prices would adjust downward to compensate, but that's true everywhere.

10 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Also not everyone wants to live in Jomtien surrounded by tourists coming and going, i certainly don't, one of the down sides of being on the baht bus route

You'll be surrounded by tourists almost everywhere in central Pattaya and actually Jomtien is a lot quieter and more "residental".

The VT2 building aren't on the main road - from the main entrance there's a road which turns left to building A and another further down to building B. I've stayed in a few units in both buildings and never heard any traffic noise. In a project like 7 Seas (IIRC, further up Thappraya road) which is literally on the main road traffic noise  could be an issue.

View Talay 2 (both buildings A and B) in Jomtien is a well-maintained project, centrally located  and within a walking distance to the beach, banks/shops/restaurants, 24/7 baht buses to central pattaya. A 37sqm studio would probably go now for 1.5 M baht or so. The maintenance fees are also low (less than 10K/year) and there no BS facilities like pirate ships/floating gardens (which no one wants and cost the owners a fortune to maintain). It seems to be busy year round, with obviously Sep.-Mar. being the busiest months, at least from my experience while staying there.

A lot of projects look great in the first few years after opening but then turn into ratholes once the owners stop paying their common fees and/or the managing company stops doing their job so it's good to stick to projects with a proven track-record.

Does IB have a Thai bank account so it would be possible to deposit (from my Thai account) into an  IB account without  an international wire transfer to the US?.

Thanks

From my experience with rentals in Jomtien, advertised prices are almost always inflated so for a 12k (advertised) property an offer which is 1-2k cheaper would usually be accepted. With a 16-17k unit the same applies for a 13-14k offer but that has nothing to do with the C19 situation. Nowadays you might be able to squeeze the owner a bit more but if the property is well maintained, centrally located and in a well managed project then discounts would be modest.

Thanks. But if I open an investment account with an international broker doesn't the account "physically" reside overseas, e.g. US or Europe?. The funds transfer is just from my Thai account to the broker's Thai account (if it exists), but once the funds are with broker they just increase my investment account balance, as I understand. Isn't this so?.

Thanks, I do prefer dealing with an international established broker than with a Thai one.

What I'm trying to understand if any have a Thai bank account to which I transfer funds to top-up a brokerage investment account.

What's illegal here? I'm asking about transferring funds between two Thai bank accounts.

Domestically as in Thailand-domestic, i.e. transfer from my Thai bank account to the broker's Thai bank account.

Thanks.

I'm familiar with Transferwise. So that is mean of bypassing Thai strict regulations on delivering funds overseas.

My original question was: is there an internaitonal broker which I can transfer funds to domestically?

Say, Bangkok bank (my account)->TMB (broker's domestic account - just as an example).

Resurrecting the thread:

Is it possible to transfer to an IB account funds from received by selling a property, without having a work permit/retirement visa in Thailand?.

Thanks

Hi,

I'd appreciate suggestions for online international brokers where my criteria are:

- simple account opening process (do I need to show proof of official residency in Thailand? or will utility bills suffice?)

- ease of funds transfer, ideally just a domestic transfer thus avoiding the hassle of transferring funds outside of Thailand

- low account/brokerage fees

Thanks

Thanks.

How safe are Thai banks investment-wise? would it be better to invest with domestic branches of international banks, like Chase/Citibank?.

Bankgkok's bank internet banking is painfully slow and arcane. How are the trading platforms here?.

Cheers

From experience - Jomtien. View Talay 2 has a track record of being well managed, convenient location with everything within a 1 minute walk (plus there are shops on the ground floor). Can't go wrong there.

Hi,

I'm wondering what domestic options are there for an online trading account with access to global equities (ETFs/stocks/ bonds, mostly US and EU issued).

Any such services via Bangkok bank? or other reliable investment/brokerage firm? doesn't have to be Thai but should have domestic branches.

Cheers

On 4/10/2020 at 11:57 AM, Leaver said:

Where is that "demand" now, and for the next 12 to 18 months? 

From my experience in Jomtien: View Talay 2 is always busy during August-March. <deleted> projects, which are abundant, are probably empty. But I wouldn't stay in the latter even if they paid me.

In terms of location, maintainance, and rental costs VT 2 ticks all the boxes and hence is in demand.

OP: The discount, if any, you can expect depends of course on the venue. Well-established projects which have proven over the years to be well-managed and maintained and are centrally located enjoy a solid  demand and therefore discounts won't be huge. From my experience with the View Talay 2A/B buildings,  a unit advertised at 11K might be had for 10K but that's about it.

I wouldn't waste my time and money staying in a cheap rathole in the middle of nowhere stuffed with 2nd hand furniture just to save a few bahts a month.

On 3/26/2020 at 3:10 AM, Airalee said:

1.  You used 10k as the rental rate.  Here is one listed for 8k and I would be willing to bet that the owner would accept 7k.

 

https://www.hipflat.co.th/en/listings/chonburi-condo-oqcymbgl

 

2.  For purchasing, you did not include the cost of entry and exit.  Transfer fees, realtor commissions.

 

3.  You failed to mention opportunity cost on the purchase money

 

4.  You failed to mention homeowner dues (monthly common fees), or special assessment costs such as the building paint job and swimming pool re-tiling that my landlord just had to pay. 

 

5.  You failed to mention the cost of replacing refrigerators, air conditioners etc etc which are borne by the landlord in a rental.

 

6.  It’s all about the P/E ratio.  As the condos become more expensive, the P/E gets worse.  My condo would sell for 3.214x the View Talay unit but I am only paying 1.9x the rent (using your numbers). As condos become even more expensive, the P/E becomes substantially worse (and more in favor of renting)

 

*I am currently in the market for purchasing a condo myself so spare me any “bitter renter”, “can’t afford”, “never gonna buy anyways” comments that seem to get thrown around here so much.

No intention to start a WW3 here, but I've previously checked the specific items you've mentioned:

1. You could probably find even cheaper units but I wouldn't rent anything going for less than 9-10K. There's no free lunch here - just go and inspect those sub 8K "bargains" - pure rat holes with old furniture, broken A/C and whatever.

2. Entry/Exit costs (I'm assuming you're referring to government taxes) are minor and are usually shared by the buyer and seller. For a VT2 studio they hover in the25K baht range for the buyer and seller each.

3. That's impossible to quantify. But the point here is that one shouldn't necessarily look at purchasing a residence purely as an investment. It's a place you buy to make it your own, and let's not forget that 1.4M is around 43K USD, so around the price of a new car. You would one if you were going to use it extensively wouldn't you? and a car depreciates by around 10% yearly no matter what (unless it's something exotic) while a property typically doesn't. So people are gladly willing to accept around a 50% car value depreciation over 5 years but are horrified at a 15%-20% depreciation, if at all, on an equally priced property that they've lived in, enjoyed, and made it their home during that time.

4. One of the merits of VT2 is that owner fees are low since it wasn't built with all nosensical BS like floating gardens and water fountains and whatever. Yearly fees are low at around 10K baht.

5. I didn't mention the cost of room maintenance due to rentals since I've mentioned the assumption is that the owner would reside in the unit.

6. Maybe condos in newer projects have become more expensive in terms of price per sq.m but as I've mentioned I wouldn't buy there because of inflated land prices, poor workmanship, and high maintenance fees. VT2 avoids all these pitfalls and I haven't seen the units there becoming significantly more expensive.

I've looked around enough to say that VT2 is in the sweet spot in terms of purchase cost, on-going fees, construction quality, and location, and that's why I think it's worth considering.

(x1.5 the price of pickup or 1x standatd Tesla Model 3)

The con arguments posted above have several logical flaws:

1. A condo purchase is not always just an investment but it's often done to provide a home, instead of being a long-term hotel guest, which is essentially what a renter.

2. Renting makes sense when property prices are high since then financing the purchase can be very expensive and negates any possible savings gained over renting. Sq.m prices in NY are around 14K USD/sq.m while in VT2 they're around 1160 USD/sq.m, so it's about 10x cheaper, while the unit price is around 41K USD which is something most people could probably finance even if they couldn't afford it outright.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_price_rankings?itemId=100

After living there for several years one can sell the unit, even below purchase price, and still end up saving money compared to renting. As an example:

Say a typical monthly condo rental in VT2A/B is 10K baht so yearly is 120K. Over 5years it's 600K baht, that's 46% of the purchase price and is just wasted money. The price chart in hipflat shows VT2 prices have fluctuated around 1300USD/sqm +/- 150USD (except for two peaks where it reached 1600/sqm) during the last 10 years, namely, around a 10% change:

https://www.hipflat.com/projects/view-talay-2-gnaaza

Costs comparison:

Option 1: Buy at 1.4M, live there for 5 years, sell at 10% below purchase (assuming no price increase): total cost is around 140K THB

Option 2: Rent for 5 years: total cost is 600K THB

Plus during the time you own the unit you can rennovate to your liking, install a modern kitchen, etc.. It's a home, not a hotel room. Again my assumption is that a person is planning to live in the unit for an  extensive period. If it's just for occasional visits than of course renting is more sensible.

I wouldn't buy in one of the recent projects since the build quality is horrendous and the unit sizes are around 35% smaller to VT2. People buying there pay more for less, and are just bearing the costs of inflated land prices. Plus VT2 has a track record of being consistently well-maintained. It's anyone's guess how these new mega projects would look like in a few years.