kandahar

Sceadugenga apologises for the breach of ThaiVisa rules for posting the article on stateless people in Chiang Rai.

No articles or news items from that newspaper are to be posted here.

Outlaw

This isn't a Thai thing at all. So why bother with labeling them this way? Check out any major city in the world that was overbuilt. Same problem in the row-house areas of any town in the U.S. Fights, damage to cars, shootings, etc. over parking spaces.

Trash everywhere? Have you been to some other other cities in this world? Have you seen the airport in Paris? Most of Thailand is fairly clean compared to lots of "progressive' cities. Have you seen any central American cities? Have you seen the "other "side of Dubai? Kuwait City? Ever been to India? Baghdad? South side of Chicago?

I have to agree with some others on here. This looks like a personal grievance of one individual concerning a personal parking space. Shame on that person for painting all with the broad, dark brush of generalization and stereotype. Get out and see the world before you condemn these people.

You need to get out more and preferably not to Afghanistan. As bad as it may be in some western cities, it is not as bad as it is in Thailand. Where exactly in Thailand is it "clean"? I can guarantee you that it will most likely be an unpopulated place. Thais and the westerners they attract are clueless as to collecting trash and not dumping toxic liquid waste anywhere and everywhere. How is toxic waste disposed of on Phuket? Tell me where the special depot is and how it is able to deal with all of the crud produced daily on the island.

NYC is suprisingly clean for a major city. Mayor Guliani realized long ago that leaving grafitti and garbage encouraged the situation so he made the police crack down. Know what? The streets are fairly clean, even in Harlem. That's the key. If places are left to become filthy then people say <deleted> it. Keeping it clean encourages support from the population.

Go into some of the hardest hit cities in Canada like Hamilton or Toronto, and they still maintain the parks and clean the streets. I was in Amsterdam not too long ago, and while there is some garbage, the city does a pretty good job. Yes there are issues in places like London and Paris, but its more of a cultural issue with some ethnic groups that are used to tossing trash. I saw energetic punks drinking their booze in the park, but when they were finished they put the bottles in the trash can. The city I went to university in had a lot of North Africans and they'd picnic. instead of collecting the trash, they just threw everything into the river. Cities that neglect cleanliness and greenspaces end up as stinky dark filthy places.

It definitely is a social and cultural characteristic of the country to behave as per the article, and some of the worst offenders are the elderly foreigners. The younger generation gets a bum rap on this since they are the ones most likely to put trash in its place and make an effort to respect the environment and the personal space of others.

I really don't need to get out more often. I have spent my life on the move. Maybe you need to get out.

And you can "guarantee" that I live in an unpopulated area? Your guarantee is worthless. I live in a large northern city and it is clean enough and cleaner than most places I have been in my lifetime.

And Harlem is clean? I remember when it wasn't but I was there when they started cleaning ALL of that cesspool up. Good to know they accomplished it. I also remember suburbs near Detroit that were spotless years ago and now they are wastelands, trash everywhere and nobody there cares. Things change as circumstances and populations change. That isn't a defect in people's understanding of collective good. Nor is a dirty place in Thailand an indication of people's understanding of collective good.

Where do they take toxic waste in Phuket? I have no clue. I didn't come to Thailand to live elbow to elbow with immigrants and tourists and party-goers. I moved here because I found Thailand to be a place where pretty much all of the locals I deal with are looking out for each other and for strangers. But if you live in one of those tourist areas, you are welcome to it. You get what you came for and you get what you pay for. If you think the hot tourist spots of Thailand are representative of Thailand in general, you are lacking in knowledge. Buy a bus ticket, then come back and do some posting.

The article is pointing out how the Thais have little concept of the collective good. Maybe the author lives in Phuket too. Any place in the world that is populated by fairly new immigrants is filthy and people don't respect each other. There are just too many ways of doing things, too many cultures clashing, too many people trying to adjust to a new way of life. But in your writing here, you say that some of the worst offenders are the elderly foreigners. What has that to do with anything in the article? Why don't you write your own and get your story straight?

In my town, the trash is picked up every night. In my town, all of the shop owners and most of the residents put their trash out right at closing time or bedtime If you walk the city streets after that, trash is piled neatly all over the place and at daylight, it is all gone. In front of my family's house is a bin that is used by probably ten different people every day and those are people who do not live here. I asked the Thai head of the family why he lets just anyone drop their trash at his bin. His reply is, better to have it dropped here and picked up every night than to find it dumped later where it would just be litter.

One poster on here mentioned a neighbor that threw the trash over the wall. That is ONE neighbor. He didn't say everyone was doing it. And in every crowd, there is always ONE. Is that a Thai thing? NO. It is humans in general.

Last, but not least, I'll say again. The author is off base. It isn't a Thai thing. It is a human thing, shared by every country in the world, if not now, then forty and fifty years ago when everyone dumped everything wherever there was a spot to dump it. In those areas of Thailand that the author thinks are so bad, the immigrants will catch on soon enough, the tourists will catch on soon enough and the government will catch on soon enough. The people who have been living here for generations don't need to catch on. They are doing just fine. Thailand is just fine.

Where ever it is that you are that is so bad, have fun. You're not in the Thailand that I live in.

This isn't a Thai thing at all. So why bother with labeling them this way? Check out any major city in the world that was overbuilt. Same problem in the row-house areas of any town in the U.S. Fights, damage to cars, shootings, etc. over parking spaces.

Trash everywhere? Have you been to some other other cities in this world? Have you seen the airport in Paris? Most of Thailand is fairly clean compared to lots of "progressive' cities. Have you seen any central American cities? Have you seen the "other "side of Dubai? Kuwait City? Ever been to India? Baghdad? South side of Chicago?

I have to agree with some others on here. This looks like a personal grievance of one individual concerning a personal parking space. Shame on that person for painting all with the broad, dark brush of generalization and stereotype. Get out and see the world before you condemn these people.

I suspect the writer of the opinion is a Thai person making comments about Thai people in Thailand because he happens to be in Thailand and feels that this issue needs to be addressed by Thai people in Thailand. Little point in writing about the foibles of Kazakhs in a Thailand based newspaper.

Little point in writing about "Thais Have Little Concept Of The Collective Good" when there are so many other aspects of this society that outshine other parts of this world in the category of "collective good", starting with the family unit and its importance in Thai society. The list goes on and on. Or, the author can just be disgruntled about his parking space and the trash in his park. I see lots of Thais seeking out the little trash heaps in the parks to drop their cups and plastic bags onto.

The article was posted on the TV forum, an English forum, for reading and for comment. People who can read and have traveled are the basis of this forum. If it was meant for Thais, it should be posted in Thai, in a Thai newspaper and on a Thai speaking forum. Again, the author doesn't recognize what is good and what is bad. The do's and don'ts that are taught to the youngsters here are all about the "collective good". Too bad so much of that has been lost in the progressive cultures of other countries. This Thai society is NOT a ME, ME, ME society and anyone who claims that it is, is not well informed, whether they are Thai or not.

This isn't a Thai thing at all. So why bother with labeling them this way? Check out any major city in the world that was overbuilt. Same problem in the row-house areas of any town in the U.S. Fights, damage to cars, shootings, etc. over parking spaces.

Trash everywhere? Have you been to some other other cities in this world? Have you seen the airport in Paris? Most of Thailand is fairly clean compared to lots of "progressive' cities. Have you seen any central American cities? Have you seen the "other "side of Dubai? Kuwait City? Ever been to India? Baghdad? South side of Chicago?

I have to agree with some others on here. This looks like a personal grievance of one individual concerning a personal parking space. Shame on that person for painting all with the broad, dark brush of generalization and stereotype. Get out and see the world before you condemn these people.

Good job, pomchop.

Some of the best reading I have had in days and it brought lots of smiles and "uh, huh's".

What are you doing in the states? Being there only makes one more bitter about what used to be good there.

Come back to where you belong.

kandahar

Good to hear good things from you. You have been rather quiet lately.

It has been a pretty bad last few weeks but things are looking up. Just haven't had much to contribute on here lately. Looks like lots of others are stepping up, though.

The Mexican place on Jedyod is no more. It was Kae's Casa and has relocated to the night bazaar food court, reduced menu and service. She still serves some good food, even though the menu is smaller. Chips, salsa and a beer on a hot evening is a good bet. The burritos are good, as is the enchilada. The chicken enchilada and burrito is better than the beef. The beef she uses is lacking a little.

Today, I had a enjoyable morning in CR with jubby. Found a nice coffee shop and killed a couple of hours. Time well spent. Spent another two hours with a Scotland couple. Good folks. Good day, all in all.

I met dindong a few days ago. Nice fellow. Gonna have to sit down to coffee with him soon. I think he met the Scotland couple today, too.

I stopped in and saw Brian two days ago. He's a bit blue, I think, but we're gonna pull him up. He looked healthy enough. Was good to see him. Any of you that are out and about might want to call in on him. Very nice guy. His wife stopped by tonight for a little while. She's a nice lady.

It has been a pretty good few last days.

See the pinned Google map for Tree House and Vivien House Restaurants.

Tree House Restaurant. Decent food, some dishes are really special. Had the calzone there again today. Super. Their pizza is okay, as is their seafood salad. Spinach and melted cheese is fine.

Vivien House Restaurant. I recommend their stir fried chicken with cashews. The best sauce in town for that dish. They put a lot of care and good ingredients in everything I have had there. Steaks are on the menu but I don't fall for that in Thailand any more. The restaurant is behind the coffee shop. The coffee shop in front is a good quiet place for a cup of coffee and they even have a small meeting room in the back of the coffee shop if you're bringing several friends. The place used to be B&B but now is just restaurant and coffee shop. The restaurant is a nice quiet place to enjoy a special dinner. Mostly Thais there, very few Farang know about the place, I think. They have some car parking and some motorcycle parking.

Coconut Bar on Jedyod. Supposedly has a great lamb roast on Sundays. Never had it myself but heard good things about it. Don't know if they are on the map or not.

And as jubby says, the Rimkok is decent and priced right for the buffet. They change that up quite a bit, depending on the day of the week but if you're a meat eater, that's your place.

Send a pm to Ulysses G. prior to going. He can steer you to his book shop (Gecko) and from there, he can steer you in the direction of the surplus stores. He's a good guy to meet anyway while you're in CM.

I think there is a trip to Chiang Mai in your future. I haven't found any suitable boots in CR. CM has several surplus stores near Gecko Books. The stores face the moat. Pretty good selection of military/police style boots and they are the new styles; light, composite materials There are no bargains there; the prices are the same as in the real world but the products are genuine. The boots are new and good brands with high quality soles.

Gonna scout out a new prospective Hash trail Thursday eve with Soap. The place is near Don's. The time is 16:45 or 4:45 P.M. Good chance for a visit, a walk or to learn how to lay out a trail. If anyone else wants to go, let me know. An afternoon/evening with Soap is always fun. A great opportunity for future Hares. But even if you aren't a Hasher, it will be a good time to get out and see some country during a slow walk.

This just in. Electronic issue of border passes at Mae Sai. But it probably applies to the wives more than us.

http://www.thaivisa....-in-25-seconds/

I hope they have more than one machine. 25 seconds per person at 2,800 people a day is more than 19 hours.

You can't believe how pleased I am to know there are people who will still buy genuine software in this dishonest age.

I own an original Rosetta Stone Thai language program but it is in storage back in the home country. A lot of good it is doing me there. But if I recall correctly, the price was around 6,000 baht.

Although I've been lurking in the background on ThaiVisa for a while now, I thought I'd pop my posting 'cherry' with an easy reply here...

I'm about 90kms south of Chiang Rai in Phayao - that qualifies me as 'Further Out'.

Welcome, mistephenso. I hope to see you posting some more on here.

I don't know if you're looking for other Farang in your area but there are several older threads on this forum relating to your area and one where folks are looking to connect with others in your area. Here are the threads:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/280668-anybody-live-in-mae-chai-near-phyao/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/271803-phayao/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/319110-back-hoeexcavator-and-operator-near-phayao/

There are probably more but I just ran across these as I was looking for something else.

kandahar

I'm looking forward to your return, Biff.

I think it is like VF said. The "Rai" is a state of mind. Even some of the regulars don't live IN the Rai. They just associate themselves with it because it is the largest town in their area.

Lots of the far away folks would rather be here even if they can't be. If they can't be here physically, they can be here as a part of the forum. Welcome to them all, I say. Biff doesn't live here yet but he sure contributes a lot to the forum. He's one of us.

Thank you, just got in from work, felt a little down today being so far away from where I want to be. Your comment has cheered me up considerably

I only said you're one of us. I didn't say you were as handsome as I am. So calm down.

If anyone is interested, there is a Rosetta Stone Thai language program for sale in the CR TV classifieds section right now. 1,500 baht. Cheap for Rosetta Stone. Here's the link:

http://classifieds.thaivisa.com/miscellaneous/miscellaneous-goods-for-sale/learn-thai-with-the-rosseta-stone-program-57908.html

I think it is like VF said. The "Rai" is a state of mind. Even some of the regulars don't live IN the Rai. They just associate themselves with it because it is the largest town in their area.

Lots of the far away folks would rather be here even if they can't be. If they can't be here physically, they can be here as a part of the forum. Welcome to them all, I say. Biff doesn't live here yet but he sure contributes a lot to the forum. He's one of us.

I must admit I'm a bit saddened by a seemingly futile search for company by some people.

When I moved to where I live now I knew that a certain degree of isolation would come with the package. But I've always enjoyed my own company and I had a decent woman who comes as close to understanding me as anyone has. (And a few have tried, trust me).

So I was happy with my situation for quite a while, then people started a turning upon my doorstep. I met one or two in town and still do but very rarely. I even tried a larger social gathering but my dog enjoyed it more than me, no reflection on the other people, they were great; my social skills, never good in groups anyway, have got rusty.

We have chosen to live in a country where most of us struggle with the language if we speak it at all, a social occasion with neighbours can be trying, particularly if you don't drink any more.

Golf is a great idea, you can socially interact with other players just as much as you want to. Some of the most unsociable people I know play golf.

I can't be bothered though, I refuse to let a little white ball dictate to me and can't be bothered improving my skills to conquer it.

So to the friend seekers out there I can only say, be patient, stick with ThaiVisa and they will come.

Maybe they try too hard. I dunno. I have folks turning up here all the time. Most are unannounced and all are welcome, announced or not. I stop what I'm doing, make some coffee or get the ice bucket.

I guess if anyone is out to meet friends, they just need to spend a little time dropping in on people and seeing if they "fit".

Scea, pm your your details and I'll drop by and see if I can wrangle a free cup of coffee out of you. I am very unsocial and not at all good in crowds. But you and I can just sit and watch that dog without saying a word until the goodbyes.

People who stop by here don't know I am unsocial. I think they assume that since I am mouthy on the forum, I am mouthy always. But since they are here anyway, I am forced a little further from my shell each time. The visits have done me a lot of good and I look forward to them now. Nobody ever stays too long and often, we all end up going out for lunch or dinner. The wife has gotten quite a kick out of meeting the other wives out there as well.

seaneee has been following the Farm Forum and the pig raising threads pretty closely. I suspect he is doing his homework.

I don't have any idea of land prices there. Have a look at the web and contact Jeff at Lanna Realty. He can probably find some answers for you.

Good luck.

Everybody welcome anytime, well nearly anytime, to my house for a free coffee.

Send me a PM with your info. I like free coffee.

kandahar

The program was not great yesterday but our table was in good form and we entertained ourselves. The Nordic rollerblader was there and introduced himself to the group. He is quite a sight to see, striding down the highway with his ski polls and rollerblades. Quite bizarre but he looks in very good shape for his age.

I've seen that Guy on the Highway near Wiang Chai on my way to town occasionally. He is in great shape, probably the fittest Guy for his age in Chiang Rai. no shirt, no protection from the Sun, Tarmac or whatever. Unbelievable. I've got a couple of sets of Roller Ski's in the loft back home, Thats where they'll stay.

Who was the Guest speaker, and what was the subject ?

For those who are looking for it-

Rico's is on the pinned map. It is listed as Chiang Rai Corner/ Ricos. So, alphabetically, it is listed in the C's, not the R's.

The program was not great yesterday but our table was in good form and we entertained ourselves. The Nordic rollerblader was there and introduced himself to the group. He is quite a sight to see, striding down the highway with his ski polls and rollerblades. Quite bizarre but he looks in very good shape for his age.

I've seen that Guy on the Highway near Wiang Chai on my way to town occasionally. He is in great shape, probably the fittest Guy for his age in Chiang Rai. no shirt, no protection from the Sun, Tarmac or whatever. Unbelievable. I've got a couple of sets of Roller Ski's in the loft back home, Thats where they'll stay.

Who was the Guest speaker, and what was the subject ?

For those who are looking for it-

Rico's is on the pinned map. It is listed as Chiang Rai Corner/ Ricos. So, alphabetically, it is listed in the C's, not the R's.

Woralak, the next time you and your better half stop by, I'll show you the place. Easy to get to from my house. Or if you prefer, I can e-mail you the directions from my house.

kandahar