kandahar

I mostly make stuff for family and friends. No work permit, so no business. Trying to get enough knowledgeable, dependable Thai help that the wife can run a shop and turn out some product for sale. That leaves me to pursue the hobbies. But yeah, I do try to make sure that everything I build is 100 year product. There is enough junk out there already.

IsaanAussie, do you know about the pipe door/gate hinge that is cut at a 45degree angle and therefore, the door/gate always returns to the closed position by itself? A self latching mechanism is a good idea as well. Very handy where livestock, pets or children are concerned. If you aren't using it now, it might come in handy with some of your future projects.

In everything I build, I try to incorporate one rule- Everything has to do more than the basic thing it is designed for. The beds have small angled backrests that can be raised and used for leaning back on to watch tv or read in bed and can then lowered out of sight between the headboard and mattress when they aren't needed. The larger chairs I mentioned have the moving tables on the end and hold nice potted plants. The fence I built to hide a neighbor's house also has lots of flower-pot holders and hangers built into it. The small garden sink I built has a foot-washing station built into it, complete with massaging brushes and a hand wand for washing the legs. My gardening loving mother-in-law loves it. She only asked for a place to wash her hands. The little well-house that the wife asked for is also a garden tool storage shed with a garden nursery built onto the front of it. The little chairs she asked for to use in the garden have a back that folds down into the front of the chair for a little work table. Perfect for sitting low to the ground and potting her plants. The newer model has a swivel built-in umbrella holder so she can work in the sunny part of the yard if she wishes to. If she doesn't need an umbrella, the holder swings back in underneath the chair, out of the way.

If there is anything I do that you can add to your operation to help bring up the bottom line, feel free to copy the idea. More pics coming soon.

I haven't picked up a drill press. Still doing it the hard way. And I don't have a pipe bender but I don't use much pipe. Probably would use more if I have a bender.

Here's some of the furniture. The upper end tables swivel around in front of the user, rising two inches as they swivel. The lower tables don't move. The uppers work great for laptops, enjoying a lunch outside or for perusing a magazine.

Since most of the chairs are built for outdoors, I build flower-pot holders into them.

I have built a king-sized bed for our bedroom and a twin sized for the MIL and the night-tables and lights are built into them. Great fun.

Do you have a MIG? Almost a necessity in Thailand with the thin steel that is available. If you don't have one, consider the Cliff brand. It is the inverter style, around 50,000 baht and pretty dependable. It is a real time saver compared to the stick.

Well, if there is a fee, I'll probably save my money, ride out to your place and have one of those 5 baht cups you offer. Perhaps we could get VF as the speaker. Now THAT'S an Expat meeting!

I'm not at all convinced that this club will ever reach critical mass. We are such a diverse and widely dispersed group of individuals, I'm not sure what this club has to offer, other than a place to make a few new friends from time to time.

Sponsorship seems hard to come by. Even the cheap and meager facilities of the Inn Come Hotel seem to be beyond the present means of the club.

If interested they meet on the first Saturday of each month, 10am at the Inn Come Hotel, at least for now.

Yes, yes, that's all well and fine. But is their coffee any good? And is it free?

I understand the pace thing when you put it in that perspective. I am retired also but I work pretty hard most days. And yet, Thailand does offer a life free of most of the hassles of my home country. Hard work or not, it is a much more relaxed lifestyle. Your distinction isn't trivial.

I build furniture as well. But I use steel and Smartwood. Like you, I can't retire and just stop and sit around the house and I can't live in the bars.

Good luck with your future.

interesting posts, kandahar yes, i agree; here in israel corporate farming has becoe the only way for nayone to make any real money (and of course a thai work force. w/o the thai work force, there is no farming). however a new trend has started, i guess with what u had said: one person runs a small niche type farm, the other works outside for the 'real' money. here, the two trends are goats/boutique cheeses/restaraunt and the olives, fruit preserves and other gourmet foods that others in the area want to sell; organics for the niche boutique veggie area; but real crop farming, its all large groups. even my kibbutz joined up with five other moshavs and kibbutzim to form a separate company with its own machinery, gin for the cotton, spraying/etc. everyone supplies their own workers however.

the small private farmers (from veggies to cow milk to eggs/meat chickens) are dying out as they cant compete also due to the borrow on next years crop/harvest/eggs way of working and they just cant keepup financially or physcially. ecotourism/pick your own/ country A frame bread-and- breakfast rooms are the other answer to all the small timers. i always ahve this idea to try in the future something along these lines. or i could start an issaan kibbutz )

an other problem i find is that country thais tend to think small. hubby is very happy to get some money on his washing machines (second hand renoated for thai workers here) but it is small change good for buying beer and small items. he doesnt keep books for how much expenditure vx money coming in nor for how much time or parts even if they are second hand ... he feels that as long as poeple are giving him money for his services he is making money. that is fine for daily living, not so good if u want to manage a farm or business for profit of more then just 'loose change'. he seems to have real problems with understanding the differences, and he is intelligent and hard working, thought w/o shcool edu., he is sharp at making deals, not a sucker, but something so very country thai seems to keep him from making a breakthough in thought processes for running a business. its a bit haphazard i gues su could call it.

the more i see of the problems of the local farmers here, and see how the large corporate farms run themselves, i will farm only for my dinner and for some bartering.

as far as livestock, i also will not go in to that ever again. we recently had a beautiful mare get stolen a month before birth with a very expensive foal in her... all the vet bills, feeding bills, stud service, invested for this foal... (

and i gave up on the idea of goats in thailand (in the future) also......

bina

israel

I'm so sorry to hear you lost that mare. I can't abide a thief.

You can only hope he/she/they get caught in the future.

It's not that I am risk averse, I just crave the slower pace of life that I enjoyed as a child, time to watch the world go by. Farm life in Thailand is as close as I have ever come.

This statement gives this thread an entirely new turn.

As a child, someone else was looking out for you and worrying about paying the bills, perhaps working from dawn until dusk and then some, to do so. I don't know of any successful farmers these days who live a slower pace of life. If they aren't immersed in the daily chores and grind of running the farm, they are engrossed in the business and financial end of it, trying to stay ahead of the banks, worrying themselves sick. The ones that I do know who chose to inherit Dad's farm and live at the slower pace were soon out of a farm and a home.

The words "slower pace" just don't go with farming much any more. And more and more every day, those words don't go with many things that they used to go with.

Of course, the financial risk in farming has been disproportionate. No one can predict the crop prices, the weather or natural disasters. And even if you could predict all of that in your own country, that isn't enough. You would have to be able to predict the same thing in other countries because those countries crop and commodity successes or failures affect your prices. And the financial risks of anything that a Farang gets into in Thailand is a lot more than it would be in other places. Corruption and opportunity make the rules here.

Again, diversify and be prepared to spend the time needed to make that a success.

Or become the corporate giant that has some say in making the rules. And remember, when you come into it with enough money to make a difference, you are pretty much running the little guy out of business. That alone is something to give careful consideration to. Many a corporation has found a way to do it cheaper while holding down costs and when they do, the little guy disappears. The little guys we are talking about in your case don't deserve such a fate. It will come one day, like it or not. The question is, do you want to be the guy that does that to them to make a financial gain for yourself?

So, a better question is, "How can you work within the system, being a part of it without being intrusive and actually helping the same people that you see as your competition?"

Don't go head to head with them. They can't compete if enough money is thrown into it from your side. And they don't deserve to have their way of life turned upside down by a mega-corporation that rationalizes that the few jobs being offered offsets the negatives. Some would say, "If you can't beat them, join them". You would starve if you joined them. You can't do what they do for the same cost. Now, with enough money, you could beat them. But it isn't the right thing to do. Better to say, "It is better to lead than to conquer". Maybe it is time to see about starting a Co-op, sharing that perfect boar, buying feed in bulk with your competitors and so on. Maybe it is time to start school children in the hog-raising business and to make sure that they learn the proper accounting practices, one pig at a time and new school clothes and books are paid for each year. Maybe you can get some interest from the government or local schools in that sort of project. And there is probably a valid work permit available for such a task.

You mention wanting the slower pace of life. I don't think it can be found with the typical farming available in Thailand. So, instead of beating your head against the farming rock, try something that involves a bit of humanitarianism. Perhaps the slower pace won't look so attractive once you have realized how much good you can do, how many lives you can change.

Maybe instead of being the successful Farang farmer, you can be the guy who made so many successful Thai farmers.

So, what is it you want? Do you want the slower pace of your childhood or do you want to be a farmer? You can't have both. Or, do you want to do something in farming that matters, something that involves your skills, your knowledge, your personal drive and leaves your mark on a population for centuries to come?

Back to your original question. You aren't deluding yourself that you can do better. You are deluding yourself that you can't do better by others and thereby, doing better for yourself.

Uh, huh.

You're right. And one of these days, I am going to take a vacation.

I know you asked for input from farmers and I am not a farmer. However, as a former farmer and rancher, I think I have some valid input. So, please forgive this intrusion.

Farming in and of itself isn't a living for an individual or a family these days in most countries. It is either supplemental income for a person employed seasonally or full-time in another trade or the farm itself is supplemented by family members working outside in other trades. It just boils down to how one wants to classify himself. Is he a farmer with a supplemental job or is he a tradesman with part-time farming supplementing his trade income?

In the old days in my home country, farmers could make it on their own. These days, every "family farmer" I know either works a job outside the farm or his wife works a job outside the farm. They could not survive with the farm income alone. Corporate farming companies are slowly buying up the farmland. They can make it profitable because of a variety of reasons. A few of those reasons are: They pay cheap wages, their equipment investment is spread over many thousands of acres, they can get better prices on seed and fertilizer because of the large amounts that they buy, they actually own their own product storage/drying facilities, they can better take advantage of tax incentives, they can afford to hold onto product for a longer period of time until the price is better and their crops span large areas of the country where the different seasons allow them to use their equipment year-round.

Thailand of course, has a year round growing season and is know for multiple crops per year. Unfortunately, the economy is also pretty much a micro-economy, which means the cost of living is cheap, as is the return on investment of money or time, no matter what you have invested in. Unless you're a mega-corporation, you're restricted by the laws of economics.

In order to prevail in the face of economic realities, you have to do one of two things. You have to invest an incredible amount that insures that you have basically become a influential factor in the commodity that you are in or you have to diversify, becoming less of a farmer and more of an entrepreneur.

Adding honey bees to your operation brings in some extra cash. I used to ship 48,000 pounds of honey from a farm twice a year (not my farm). At the time, the price was nearly three dollars U.S. per pound and the honey was delivered to a bulk food packager. Nice little bonus for the owner of the farm. He told me that his bee investment had been returned years ago and each honey crop was cash in the bank. He had maxed out on the number of hives that could be supported by the crops in his area. He was no longer just a farmer.

A friend in my home country decided to go into a "pick your own" berry farm. But that wasn't enough income. There were just too few people willing to pick their own and he had to limit the number of acres he farmed. He found out that he had to offer free classes in the surrounding communities on wine-making, jam and jelly making, preserves and canning. That paid off. He now sells not only the fruit that he grows but the jars, lids, recipe books, wine-making paraphernalia and ingredients and so on. He is doing well but he is no longer just a farmer.

I see by your avatar that you must be in the hog business. I'll assume that you raise your own feed as well. Something to consider is creating more of a market for what you already have. Pork jerky, Thai style? Cured, dried, seasoned and packaged with the right logo or slogan. Curing equipment, smoking equipment, packaging supplies, recipes, sauces and spices for sale to the do-it-your-selfers? Sausage making classes? Offering better feed to the other hog growers than they can get locally. Manure enriched garden bedding packaged in bags?

Are you more knowledgeable in hogs than the Thais? Offer classes on hog farming that include tours of the farm, hands on treatment of the different ailments, information on feed mixes, artificial insemination services and include several piglets in the price of the class. When the class is finished, the students leave with a small start-up operation in the back of the pickup truck. This could be tied in with a school project. How many pigs per year would a student have to raise to cover the cost of his/her schooling and can you guarantee a buy-back price at a certain age/weight?

Miniature pigs for pets? Has that craze hit here yet? I haven't seen any but I don't get out much.

Whole hog barbecues for local festivals, wedding parties and such? That is a business in itself if you have the personnel/staff to tow the trailer and cook and serve the hog. Of course, your jerky products would be displayed at these functions as well. Getting the sponsors for such thing will come easily enough as your reputation grows.

Okay. Enough. You're smarter than I am. The answer to your question in these times is, no, you can't expect to make a good living from traditional farming in most cases and you know that. But you can make a good living if you incorporate your dream with other things. Farming is becoming more and more a corporate industrial endeavor and will one day, be nearly 100 percent corporate, even in Thailand. The family farm survivors will be doing the things that a corporation cannot be bothered with. So, in your case and your area, what is that? Good luck.

I had a visit from jubby today. I needed it. It did me a world of good. For those of you who haven't met him yet, you need to. He is very pleasant company and an intelligent conversation partner.

He is also funny when he means to be. He shared his latest adventure with me and it qualifies for this thread. The story concerned bad luck on his part but it cracked me up. Strange how we can see humor in other's misfortune. I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. It really wasn't his bad luck that killed me so much as the way he related that luck. He has a knack for storytelling. He probably won't add it to these pages and a lot would be lost if he did. Typed words can't relate the same story with the same emphasis on the good parts. His mannerisms, expressions and delivery in person can't be reproduced on the keyboard.

Thanks for the visit, jubby. And thanks for the laugh. I know you could have told that story in several different ways but you chose to tell it in a way that would brighten my day. It did.

According to my neighbors- Never kill one of those huge geckos that run around on the outer walls of houses. If you do, your kinfolk will find your body full of live ones when you die.

Welcome to the mix, PhilB.

Well, woe is me after previewing the gorgeous women in your pic that seek guys like me. Unfortunately, my heart is already promised. And she doesn't look ANYTHING like these beauties in the pic. My loss. I shall mope about for the rest of this day, sure.

jubby, it looks like VF let you off easy on this one. He must have been tired.

Well, here it is. jubby, you're wrong. I know, it hurts.

Some of those coffee houses are buzzing. Some of the people in them are buzzing.

Some of the bars are buzzing also. And some of the people in them are buzzing.

Different buzzes, different overall costs.

Getting 5 baht coffee at home is a good thing. I enjoy a 5 baht cup at home with my wife, often. "Often" meaning, I drink coffee at home all morning, every morning. She has one cup and is finished for the day. I usually have a few cups later in the afternoon as well. I function well with coffee. But public coffee houses are okay.

The pastime of swilling coffee in public places has had its share of detractors:

“Coffee leads men to trifle away their time, scald their chops, and spend their money, all for a little base, black, thick, nasty, bitter, stinking nauseous puddle water.”

The Women's Petition Against Coffee (1674)

But coffee itself has had its promoters:

“As soon as coffee is in your stomach, there is a general commotion. Ideas begin to move...similes arise, the paper is covered. Coffee is your ally and writing ceases to be a struggle.”

Honoré de Balzac (1799-1859)

And just for fun, my favorite coffee quote:

"If this is coffee, please bring me some tea; if this is tea, please bring me some coffee."

Abraham Lincoln

In the case of the coffee shops, there are many positives to consider. People watching. Running into old friends. Meeting new friends. Tasting a different brew that hits the spot. Eavesdropping on the local gossip. Taking note of the social changes.

Coffee shops are okay. The more, the merrier. The different decorating schemes and themes alone make it worthwhile to visit some of them. My favorites are the ones done in an antique setting. And while VF often ends up in those shops just because he needs to kill some time while the wife is shopping, I usually go alone, to get away from the grind here and use the time to put my brain into a relaxed mode for a while. They are relaxing places to visit, normally. It is nice to have those places to go to when the mood or the need is right.

I am usually the only Farang in the place, no matter which shop I go to. Thais go to those shops a lot more than you think they do. The wife went to order a take-out coffee for me today at my favorite place for iced coffee. She gave up and came home. The lady making the coffee told her that there were twenty orders ahead of hers. Sometimes that place is dead. Sometimes it is full. Anyway, the sister-in-law went back later and returned with my order. She didn't have to wait.

So, whether it is 30 baht or 60 baht, the coffee shops are much more attractive to me than the bars. I know I'm not likely to have a crash on the way home from a coffee shop. The beer thing can cost a family a lot more than just the cost of the beer over time. I don't have that problem with coffee. And I have tried the beer thing when I was younger. I tried EVERYTHING when I was younger. The coffee thing is affordable and no unwanted family, social or financial ramifications. Unless of course, the year is 1674 and The Women's Petition Against Coffee gets its way.

Carsten's condition hasn't changed. He isn't eating much, if anything. He is however, talking again when people stop to see him. He went through a few days where he didn't want to speak to anyone. He's having a tough ride right now. My wife visited him yesterday and found him to be in a pretty good mood.

ImageDude phoned me last week and reported good progress since he arrived at his home. I will see him this week if things slow down here for a half-day or so. He sounded really good on the telephone call.

Brian was, of course, released from the hospital on the day reported earlier. His wife is after him to slow down a bit and I think she is having some success. I saw him a few days ago and he looked good.

Hi all you good/bad day/week/month ers

Kd I'd love to help you get out of the house but I'm kinda stuck up here in Chiang Saen (nicely stuck I might add!) and off home to the UK in a few days

It's been an up and down week, car hire company conspired with the banks that had been closed due to the bangkok troubles and my UK bank to hold on to 40,000 baht for over a week so things have been a little tight, but ok now

Got a rejection email about a job in Thailand

Found a small house we want to buy for 350,000

The buyers said they wanted a quick sale which always makes me a bit nervous, but by quick they mean January next year!

If anyone knows a lawyer in the area who has knowledge of usufruct contact details would be very much appreciated. Even if they don't know what an usufruct is, if they're competent then they have between now and january to do some research

My g/f was most disappointed to find we couldn't put my name on the house as well as hers, at first she thought I didn't want my name on it which lead to the 'silent treatment' for an hour or so.

I'm back in the good books now, it all fitted in with the flow of the week as a whole.

Cheers,

Biff

Oh and we experienced the double pricing today, 700 year old ruined Wat in Chiang Saen, 50 baht for me and 10 for the mrs, hey ho! doesn't really bother me unless it gets up to a hundred or so for me and 10 for her then i'll just walk away

Hello Biff. Glad to know the funds thing was corrected.

Don't sweat not being able to rescue me. I will manage to hang on a few more days. I think Soap will arrive Thursday afternoon and I can't say "no" to him. The wife has me pretty busy here anyway. Going to finish four chairs today and she will be happy. However, she just called in another order for some steel to be delivered this evening, so it looks like other projects are in the works.

We went to Rai Mae Faa Luang recently and instead of being appalled at paying more as a Farang, I was pleased with our discounts. With my Thai driver's license the entrance fee was nocked down to 100 from the posted 200. My wife's ID, showing her a resident of the Rai, reduced her entrance fee from 100 to 50.

Some might say, I had a bad day and was charged more for being a Farang. I say I had a good day and received a discount. Often good or bad depends on how you look at it.

I usually don't understand the complaints about being charged differently at parks and such. Where I come from, many cities have different prices for parks, zoos and such, depending on whether or not you can prove residence in that city, county or what have you. Bonafide resdents of the city are given preferantial pricing, while outsiders are charged more. The basis of that is, property owners and such in that town are already funding the exhibit with their taxes. Outsiders are not included in that tax base, so they get charged more. Hunting and fishing fees fall into that pricing scheme as well. Have never heard complaints about that and there shouldn't be complaints about that. As Farang, there isn't much chance that we are providing as much tax support as others here might be. True, it is a technicality that we aren't considered landowners even though in the sense of where some of that baht comes from, we are more the owners than our spouses are. So, as VF pointed out, without the benefit of a Thai driving license to separate us from the tourists, we will pay more. No complaints from me on that. But I don't go to many of those places. I count on the dynamic reporting partnership of Limbo and VF to keep me informed on those attractions.

If I do get charged more, I have it coming. My wife owned her house and land long before she met me.

Wow! My day just got better. I almost had to reply in another thread and address the terrific language problems that plague our little forum. But a mod deleted the thread before I had time to type my rebuke, my rebuttal, my expected contribution. Stu, you lucked out here. Maybe we need to start a good DWM thread as well.

But what in the world could cccbeads be thinking when she/he decided to post that in THIS forum?

Sorry kandahar but didn't get this message until now.

Nary a worry. The future holds more days when this can be accomplished. I wasn't speaking particularly of needing to get out of here on THAT day. I kind of have a time block of several days in mind before I finally just pack it in and go in search of western conversation and a break. And if you don't make it within that time frame, jubby, Biff, Brian, Soap, woralak or someone else will arrive and drag me outta here for a while.

Well, back to the topic of bad days. This one falls under "Almost had a bad day", maybe. Almost a year ago, I thought a bad thing was occurring. I noticed several spots on my skin that had some of the characteristics of skin cancer. I went to visit a local skin specialist in CR. The wife accompanied me and translated, even though the doc had a fair handle on English. The doc spent about 20 minutes checking me out, asking questions and showing me pictures of skin cancer spots and comparing those pics to my affected areas. She showed me what I need to be looking for. I didn't have any cancerous spots. I went to the reception desk to settle the bill. There was no charge. I didn't understand that so I went back and talked to the doc. She explained that since she didn't treat me for anything, she couldn't charge me for any services. Huh?!?!

Last night I went to see another doc for a different problem. This doc spent at least 20 minutes with me and the wife, asking questions, taking my vitals and so on. When she was satisfied of what my ailment was, she said that she doesn't treat those kinds of problems but she wrote a recommendation to a doc who does treat them. Same thing. No charge for the visit because she couldn't treat me in any way. Huh?!?!?!

The docs in my home country could learn something from the docs here.

For all the things a person can be dumbfounded with in this country, for all of the differences in the way life is lived here, some of them are really good things to discover. Some unpleasant surprises await me here in CR. But some very pleasant ones await me as well.

No, no baby yet, still waiting for the vibration in my pocket which will signal the start.

Football was so-so, we won but played like a bunch of amateurs, that's usually the case with friendlies before big cup competitions so musn't get too down-hearted, I'm sure they'll do us proud and reach the giddy heights of another quarter/semi-final again!

Can't help you with the word you are looking for, hopefully VF or Kandahar will be along soon to help.

I can't help him. The word he is looking for is not my new word of the week. We will have to wait for VF or Flatouthruthefog or wait until it comes up as my word of the week. Might be a while.

VF, I need to get out of here for a bit. If you make it to town, give me a call. I'll shut down and buy you a cup.

Closets or no closets.

More than one electrical outlet per room or not.

Light switches placed next to the doorways or placed on the opposite walls.

Hhhmmm, was it a bit daft to mention that my wifes labour is imminent in a topic titled 'Having A Bad Day / Week/ Month'? Oh well, too late now!

I just assumed that you posted that in this thread because there was the possibility that it would cause you to miss the game and missing the game would qualify for the bad DWM thing.

I quite enjoy the repartee about my colorful and voluminous vocabulary. Much more fun than the old fashioned 'word a day' approach. I do draw the line at anyone questioning dear jubby's mental health or insulting his lovely wives. That is far too personal.

There is a great difference in the light hearted banter of most and the personal, inappropriate, often incoherent prose of some.

And congrats to the new dad.

Word a day? I'm still struggling with one a week. Maybe I'm in the wrong forum.

Now VF, I haven't seen anyone on here accusing you of having a voluminous vocabulary. So far, I think we have given credit to your close connection with Google. Seems to me that you're taking a few liberties here.

Now, what happened to that guy that issued the thinly veiled challenge to you yesterday? I suspect that when he saw just how intense our attacks can be, he wavered a bit and is rethinking his strategy. If so, good move on his part. A guy can get eaten and spit out on this forum before he has time to even collect his thoughts for his next post.