BAF

Nice to know your friend is paying the workers so handsomely, especially his own father-in-law. Is there any way possible he could pare his father-in-law's salary down a little bit, to say 175 baht a day? I'm sure that will save him a bundle. Your friend is truly a piece of work.

What planet are you "piece of clown" from? Paying one's father in-law to build his own daugther's house?!?!

I guess I should start charging my in-laws for my professional services (I'm a traning professional nurse) and I should prepare a rate table for my future daughter's husband...

BTW, how much are you getting paid by your children's spouses? Below, above or at market prices?

My wife's two older sisters have both built a house in Thailand and my father in-law is a master builder. He took care of everything absolutely and obviously free of charge and thanked the foreign husband of one of his daugthers for the big "gift" (thanks to Thai laws) he gave to his daugther (the foreign husband covered 50% of the costs). The other sister paid for the house all by herself.

In what sad and miserable corner of farangland have you been educated to believe that it should be any different? Or have you just been "re-educated" in Thailand by the finest example of Thai s.cum most foreigners associate with?

Thai's are expected to have the proper visa's where they require them and pay the fee's so if the shoe is no on the other foot so be it - what's good for the goose and all that.

The usual s.tupid c.rap it seems impossible to miss in threads like these...

Thais are "expected" to be able to live with their western spouses in their spouses' western countries, to acquire PR and citizenship (if so they want), to work whatever job they please and to own whatever they can.

"What's good for the goose and all that."

Cut the BS and stay OT.

My intuition tells me that Mr. Greenwood is far more resentful over changes in the dancer's dress code of his favorite watering holes at Soi Cowboy than in changes in the business environment. The golden age is over. I'm sure he's investigating Venezuela and Brazil!

WOW, what a powerful intuition you have got there. I'm impressed.

Do you also dream about lottery numbers?

I am a fool for Christ; whose fool are you?

I'm no fool, I don't believe in ANY of this SHIrT

I'm off to uni!

:D

Glad my getting a second degree makes you so cheerful

And BTW aren't you too at uni?

Aren't you "parasiting" in a farang country getting the education your great homecountry is unable to give you?

To get educated, an Italian goes back home.

To get educated, a Thai has to "parasite" in a farang country.

Laugh at that

And wasn't Thaigoon the one carefully picking parts of Bangkok while listing the whole of Pattaya as devoted to the "foreign prostitution scene" anyway?

Oh, I see. He was replying to me then.

I guess he is the type of "creatures" who don't need coherence and consistency...

Sorry. I meant to say parts of Pattaya and parts of Hat Yai. Sorry for not being perfectly clear on this in the first place. And I'm glad that you liked it when I said creatures..... I guess that's better than parasites, ehh?

I'm off to uni! We'll talk about parasites later!

Pataya, besides "the scene", still has many other tourist attractions.

And still has a "huge portion" of the scene (brothels and other kinds of prostitution venues) catering to Thais.

The part servicing female customers is almost entirely geared towards Thais.

Enough to justify the claim that the "entire city practically devoted to 'the scene'."? I wonder what the ever increasing number of families who travel to Pattaya for vacation are doing over there then.

Looking confused and often uncomfortable..

And wasn't Thaigoon the one carefully picking parts of Bangkok while listing the whole of Pattaya as devoted to the "foreign prostitution scene" anyway?

Oh, I see. He was replying to me then.

I guess he is the type of "creatures" who don't need coherence and consistency...

You know, I have been "enlightened" in almost every Thai city, town and village I've been in...

I'm not shocked, to be honest. And I'm sure your family back in your homecountry (if you still have any or they still haven't disowned you) are proud of this great achievement of yours.

Alas, not a chance... They are "typical farangs" (generally and relatively honest, religious, law abiding citizens) you know...

That's not the point I'm making, it's someone else's.

The point was that even in the city most famous for the foreign "scene" there is a big, active Thai "scene"...

As for the families in Pattaya, no comment.

Given the many choices in Thailand and the endless choices elsewhere, I sure wouldn't take mine there unless I was specifically looking for that "atmosphere" (and judging by some of their faces, many of them weren't as well).

So basically you aren't disproving my claim that a huge portion of Thailand's prostitution is aimed at creatures like you. You are just saying that there's also a "big, active Thai scene." I hope we both understand each other now.

No, I was proving you that even in THE city where the foreign scene is much bigger than the Thais' there still is a "huge portion" devoted to Thais.

Unless, of course, you keep on mistaking Pattaya for the whole of Thailand.

I hope we both understand each other now.

I'm talking out of my d.ick.

We know that.

You know, I have been "enlightened" in almost every Thai city, town and village I've been in...

Pataya, besides "the scene", still has many other tourist attractions.

And still has a "huge portion" of the scene (brothels and other kinds of prostitution venues) catering to Thais.

The part servicing female customers is almost entirely geared towards Thais.

Enough to justify the claim that the "entire city practically devoted to 'the scene'."? I wonder what the ever increasing number of families who travel to Pattaya for vacation are doing over there then.

That's not the point I'm making, it's someone else's.

The point was that even in the city most famous for the foreign "scene" there is a big, active Thai "scene"...

As for the families in Pattaya, no comment.

Given the many choices in Thailand and the endless choices elsewhere, I sure wouldn't take mine there unless I was specifically looking for that "atmosphere" (and judging by some of their faces, many of them weren't as well).

All right, let me put it this way. Every single Thai town or city (except the majority of the islands) that attracts a lot of foreign tourists, has brothels specifically catered for them. Huge enough of a portion now?

And by the way I said a huge portion of Thailand's prostitution, not Thailand. Quite a difference.

Ok, you are half way through: almost "every single Thai town or city" has brothels specifically catering to Thais (including the two cities you have devoted to foreigners, Pattaya and Hat Yai).

Now, how many Thais are there in Thailand and how many foreigners?

The thing is not every single Thai town or city has brothels. In fact, it's not even close for anyone to say "almost every single Thai town or city has brothels specifically catering to Thais." Try to travel around a bit, you might be enlightened.

I'm not talking out of my a.ss, I'm talking out of my d.ick. I have already (much) "enjoyed" such "enlightment"...

Suggest you do the same, it might do you good in more ways than one.

Pataya, besides "the scene", still has many other tourist attractions.

And still has a "huge portion" of the scene (brothels and other kinds of prostitution venues) catering to Thais.

The part servicing female customers is, BTW, almost entirely geared towards Thais.

All right, let me put it this way. Every single Thai town or city (except the majority of the islands) that attracts a lot of foreign tourists, has brothels specifically catered for them. Huge enough of a portion now?

And by the way I said a huge portion of Thailand's prostitution, not Thailand. Quite a difference.

Ok, you are half way through: almost "every single Thai town or city" has brothels specifically catering to Thais (including the two cities you have devoted to foreigners, Pattaya and Hat Yai).

Now, how many Thais are there in Thailand and how many foreigners?

In contrast, a huge portion of Thailand's prostituition is openly catrered to foreign clientele.

...and this definitely defines your level of knowledge on the country you pretend to be a citizen of.

Huh? Soi Nana, Soi CowBoy, Patpong, Pataya, and Hat Yai just to name a few.

Trying to pass Soi Nana, Soi Cowboy, Patpong, Pattaya and Hat Yai for a "huge portion" of Thailand..?

In contrast, a huge portion of Thailand's prostituition is openly catrered to foreign clientele.

...and this definitely defines your level of knowledge on the country you pretend to be a citizen of.

We shouldn't judge other cultures based on our own values and when we go to a third world country, we need to recognize that impoverished people, corruption, inefficiency, and immorality are usually part of that lifestyle. Having said that though, I've seen that many countries, where there is an active prostitution trade, it's primarily located where the foreign tourist frequents. Many people have discovered that when you get off the beaten tourist path, life is different.

Unless you know the language, the people and your way around...

You are oh so wrong about prostitution primarily located "where the foreign tourist frequents".

And what is this splitting up everyones postings all over the forum, and trying to give an answer to each and every sentence in ones post?

You must have a serious problems to see the bigger picture in things.

In many of the discussions I have had on the boards it comes a point when somebody comes up with remarks like these.

It's called point by point replying and it helps to go deep into the arguments and to actually go somewhere, to reach some sort of conclusion and not to repeat the same points over and over ignoring the (counter)arguments proving/refuting them.

If the ones objecting to my "style" of replying (you know, I do have some arguments and facts to base my points on and would like for a discussion to progress) would do the same we wouldn't be going in circle.

The rest of your reply perfectly proves this.

Would you like for me to reply only to some of the points and statements you make? How many can/should I reply to? Which ones can/should I choose?

Let me know so I can reply, tnx.

Haha.. I am just laughing! I ve read some of your postings and you`re just moaning around in this forum because this whole visa thing is getting on your nerves. I have never really felt the visa thing as a problem.

Look here at your post in "my visa run". You say;

"At the moment I'm living in the West (Italy) with my Thai wife and everything is just about perfect and moving back to Asia is just my "Plan B".

The ONLY remaining reason why I am still considering Thailand (where I have lived for an extended period of time) is because I know the lingo, the place and the people very well. It took a huge effort and I am not willing to start it all over again if at all possible.

But it now seems that even if I would still want to choose Thailand (notwithstanding all the very bad news coming of late and the bad changes I have witnessed in the last 5 years) I couldn't spend my time and my money in LOS since I am well under 50 and I would come to Thailand unmarried, with no need (and no will) to work and presumably with no intention of getting married again (and certainly not within the first 3 months...).

As things stand now, I would be undecided between the Philippines and Cambodia with Thailand completely out of the picture..."

If people read you posting it is obvious what is the reason for people like you moaning and complaining endless. You are just not strong enough or able to adapt to some minor change in rules. A huge effort....! What is that.. Did you not face any bigger challenges in life than moving back to Italy."

That is that you haven't got what the huge effort was: it was not moving back to Italy, it was learning "the lingo, the place and the people".

Less laughters reading my post and you would have probably understood it. Or maybe not.

All my foreign friends in Thailand who is real people never see this visa thing as a big problem.

Like "Casanundra" say in the thread "my visa run"; ** IF ** you want to stay you can find a way

Yeah, you can always find a way... F1 visa runner.

Your handle says it all.

And it obvious that you dont know your lesson. I will get a 12 monts Non-O married to a thai, possible to extend to 15 months.

No sweat eh...

In any case, that's the maximum you can ever hope for from the homecountry of your wife and your child: 1 year NON IMMIGRANT permit of stay for "visiting the family"...

Enjoy.

Thats more than my gf got in Norway. And you know what. Because I am som well off I couldnt even get her to Norway.

I have NO income registered NO tax paid for maaaaaany years in Norway. Norway requires a minimum of +1.000.000 THB (180.000 NOK) in income for a Norwegian citizen to invite someone to stay for a maximum of 3 months on a tourist visa. A family member of mine had to apply to get her here.

We then had to beat the system by getting married in Norway, and then also... I had to GO OUT THERE AND TAKE A JOB. There is no way around this rule for getting her a 1 year visa. The law here requires a minimum of 3 months income (15.000 NOK x 3) to have the application approved. I worked for 2 months through a company I am the owner of. I showed a 4 times higher salary and applied after only 2 months on the bases of this high salary and my wife being pregnant.

Application approved, and I stopped working. I know work with changing diaper on my son and I love it!

I am not interested in discussing AGAIN the Norwegian immigration laws.

Suffice to say that with your actual 15k baht/month, no present job and no tax paid your incomeless wife is staying in Norway and, correct me if I am wrong, can work, buy land and houses and enjoy countless other benefits like any other Norwegian citizens.

Does she have to report to immigration every 90 days, F1 visa runner? Or does she have to do 90 days visa runs, F1 visa runner?

You dont know shit about others countries and how the visa rules are there. One thing is for sure though. Neither in Italy or Norway you can come sloching in to the immigration being a citizen outside of EU, over 50 yrs old, with 800.000 THB and say; Hi I want to retire here!

Correct me if I am wrong but at the moment neither you nor me are interested nor qualify for a so called "retirement visa", is that right?

I am not interested in discussing something that is not, at present, of any use to me (and to you) and which will probably not be there anymore (especially in the present, and already many times worsened, form) when, 20 years from now, I will "qualify"...

Things are not just either BLACK or WHITE which is exactly how you look at things.

BAF, You are welcomed back when you are over 50 to retire and when the visa strain is not to much for you to handle.

That is my point, F1 visa runner: as things stand, both you and me are presently NOT welcome in Thailand...

Whether we will when we retire is anybody's guess. And the fact that they have just doubled the amount they are asking for (an amount which is ten times the average Thai yearly wage) should really tell you something. But it obviously does not.

Again, good luck and once you manage, in one way or another, to get back to Thailand report back on the board if they allowed you a "12 months extendable to 15" or you are going to be an eternal F1 visa runner...

Some good explaining you got there mr BAF. Actually they all pretty much stink.

Actually, you haven't refuted any one of them...

So why are you still in Thailand if you critizise "thats how good Thailand is"?

"My Visa Run"

You have noticed the foreigners being there all year around for decades havent you.. Their not giving it up are they? Have you seen many been leaving lately because it so bad?

I have known very few who have stayed "decades", I have met many who have stayed for many years under many of the options which don't exist anymore or which are gradually disappearing.

And I do know of people who are leaving LOS because of the latest worsenings of the laws, regulations and attitudes.

You just go back and moan about it if you think its so bad.

Yep, that's what I'm enjoying doing right now!

I said the 400 k was not an option anymore. Thats the whole reason for opening this thread.

And also easy back-to-back 30 days visa exemptions on arrival, and easy multi-entry TV, and easy multi-entry N-I, and easy investment visas etc etc etc

That's the whole point of my reply.

I'm very curious to see which one of the many easy options you are left with you are going to take...

Have you ever seen well off peoples annual statements, NO income NO tax paid. I guess not. After your philosofy they should be in for a nice little eye opener right.

I think you`re just sitting in a whole somewhere struggeling to keep your things together.

Again, in case you really are wondering: "My Visa Run"

It's not me the one struggling to stay/get back to LOS...

I still hear foreigners complaining about "thailand dont want us foreiners this and that....." just the same over and over again. I`ve been living in thailand for many years allready and I very well know my way around in this easy living country.

Well, let's see... Married, under 50 years old and can only show an income of 15 k per month...

Boy, are you in for a nice little eye-opener!

Dont come back if you`re not rich... What crap is that? The ones belive this to be true might look into ones personal economy and say; "DO NOT come here if you are as poor as me!"

It seems your 15k/month are good enough for a 1st world country where the average wage is several times your income but it's not for a 3rd world country where the average wage is half of your income...

Get "what crap that is" now?

The truth is that you dont need to be rich to live in Thailand. Its cheap to invest in some small business for your wife or gf to make money from. Its quite easy to open a company which will give you the visas you need or you can just travel in and out of Thailand like before just in a slightly different way.

In your first post you got my sympathy but it seems it's such a piece of cake finding a way to legally stay in LOS with your wife and children that you don't need it really.

Glad to see you have so many easy options and waiting to see which one you go for...

There is NO country in the world where you can live a so good life for so little money. I also belive this to be the reason for why some people also are complaining a lot. Just because they cant keep up economically, they simply blame it on Thailand. They really dont want to leave is more the truth.

Frankly, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I was living in Thailand on 15k/month. Let alone with a wife and a young children...

There is no place like the West to be poor.

I belive visa rules should be tight in any country. Just because you travelled to Thailand and had a blast for some months, years, it does not give you the rights to stay there forever or to have the same rights as thais.

It seems the Thais are of your same school of thought: visa rules should be tight and just because you travelled to Thailand, had a blast for some years, married a Thai and fathered a Thai citizen, it does not give you the right to stay there forever or to have the same rights as Thais...

We have the same problem in Norway as with many other European countries. There is a lot of people here that we really wish had never come. Now there is no way back as our countries have changed radically. What I am thinking about is too many muslims with demands, muslim mosques everywhere, low cost foreign workers, street violence, criminal activities, rapings, muggings, drugs flowing in, russian-african-east european hookers, etc etc.. Its ten times more dangerous to move around down town Oslo in the evenings compared to Bangkok. Thats just shitty in a city with only +500.000 inhabitants.

I am supose to be from one of the best countries in the world, my economic situation is good, education is good, lots of good friends....... but I want live in Thailand. How do you understand that?? Real simple, for me its better than Norway.

Thats how good Thailand is

As I have written in another thread (funnily, to another Norwegian): while Thai spouses of Norwegian citizens are usually TAKING from Norway (because Norway is a country which grants many rights and benefits to its citizens and their spouses), Norwegian spouses of Thai citizens are usually GIVING to Thailand (because Thailand is a country which grants very few rights and benefits to its citizens and almost none to their spouses).

Yet bad Norway has granted your incomeless wife a 1 year permit to stay, the possibility to work any job and buy any thing and would give her, in time, PR and citizenship and good Thailand has "granted" the husband of one of its citizens and the father of another and who earns about twice as much as its average citizen the possibility to struggle to get a 90 days permit to stay (for "visiting the wife"!!)...

"Thats how good Thailand is".

Yeah, maybe Thailand changed a little over the years, to be honest I think it is for a better future Thailand.

If you are serious about staying there, taking part in the thai society and culture, having a family there and it is a great country!

What "taking part in the Thai society and culture" do you think there is for an Alien, Non Immigrant on perpetual 90 days visa runs..?

Wake up and smell the coffee.

Seriously, I support the Thai goons and the Hengs of Thailand.

Post of the year!

I knew you were a smart fellow and would have picked on the important parts of my posts!

As far as I've ever seen, ThaiGoon has never "lost it" to the extent that other posters subscribing to the "Thai people are ignorant and Thai culture sucks" persuasion tend to lose it whenever somebody throws a bit of their own bile back in their faces.

If I was a Thai person reading this forum, believe me, I'd show much less restraint than TG has in all the Thai-bashing topics he's responded to. For just a moment, if possible, some folks ought to suspend their extremely critical, biased rhetoric and read some of the things they've posted, and then imagine what it might be like as a Thai person reading that ignorant garbage.

As is all too typical with folks of your persuasion, a lot of hot air and no real arguments or hard facts thrown against the "ignorant garbage".

Just, as you oh so rightly say, some bile in the face...

No its ok I don’t want to read anything else that might annoy me. Seriously though its just the recent surge of moaning anti everything threads that really starts to be a pain.

You are so right. How has the tune changed just recently, hasn't it?

Not long ago I was in the tiny minority to speak some "hard truths" about Thailand and I was used to get a lot of "heat" for it, even "the boot" sometimes...

What has changed? The things I and others used to talk about (and not believed and ridiculed for it) are now being felt on their own skin by many in the farang community (either directly or indirectly through friends and acquaintances).

Haven't you, honestly, not seen the mounting pressure the ever changing laws, attitudes and "moods" have been putting on foreigners, lately?

There was nothing particularly out of the ordinary about your posts it just happened to be the last complaint I read before I had to post. I honestly don’t have anything against criticism of Thailand or Thai people its just the way some people go about it, its like a broken record. If you read some peoples post history its just moan, moan, moan, Thai hate farang, Thai racist, Blah Blah Blah. I know people like to vent there frustration here but honestly I never knew there was actually such a large number of people who ha such a negative look on life, I certainly don’t like living like that.

In fact, there WERE NOT such a large amount of people complaining as of now.

"Complaining", believe it or not, is a powerful force and an engine of the progress.

Many "complainers" would very much like to have a chance to fix the problems they complain about. Many complainers, just like you, actually love the country and the people they complain about.

The fact is, as farangs in Thailand they are absolutely powerless, totally passive subjects upon whom any change (small, medium, big and life changing) is just forced upon. They are and remain "aliens" whose contributions is not only NOT asked for, is very much totally rejected and disparaged.

In one thing you are wrong, I am not one of them.

I have no personal interest in seeing Thailand succeed. I don't think they deserve it either.

My personal observations are just of academical value, I don't actually wish for my "advices" to be put into action by the Thais.

I would lose my playground, and that's what matters to me.

One final point, I absolutely and totally believe that every nation (on a large enough scale of events, time and space -too long to elaborate-) has the leadership they deserve.

This is very important.

The BS that the Thais don't "deserve" the current govt (or the previous one, or any one of the rest of them), the notion that the powers that be are a completely detached reality and have nothing to do with the Thai nation, culture, values and society, as if they came from the Moon, is utter nonsense.

Show me the stupidity (along with the good points) of the last 100 years of the political life of my own homecountry and I will tell you that thay mirrored the values and the culture of the nation at that point in time.

This is true always and for everybody.

Even for Thailand and the Thais.

Its a shame that you see anyone who may have a different view point to you as wrongly "defending them no matter what". After all we should all bow down to you as your the one with multiple degrees. Did you ever learn in any of your many degrees

Why all this emphasis on my "many degrees"?

BTW, it seems you and shochu have problems counting to 2 Actually, less than 2.

that stupidity and intelligence can go hand in hand? Even if your argument had a valid point your pompous hollier than thou atitude just stinks.

Just trying to tune in on the wavelength of this thread

For some serious and less pompous stuff you may try a search on past threads, I can PM you my old handle on this board and the handle under which I have posted in "serious" threads on this and other boards.