BAF

Why isn't working a market stall man's work?

The same reason driving a tuk-tuk or a taxi isn't a woman's job. Get it? It's cultural thing.

So, if I get it, in "Thai culture" construction working and garbage collecting are woman's job. Right?

P.S. I see you have just edited your post and added "In Indonesia the women do the women's jobs and the men's jobs." You should make up your mind and get clearer ideas and opinions before offering "explanations" with a "Get it?" attached to them.

I think you'll find that Colpyat has already answered your question. The reason that you see hundreds of women working the market stalls is because that's what women do in Thailand. It's not usually a 'man's job' to work a market stall.

To you and Colpyat: in how many countries have you seen so many young women working as construction workers and garbage collectors as in the "Land of Smiles"?

Care to list a few of them?

In Thailand I have seen women doing ALL the "women's jobs" out there PLUS many so called "men's jobs" (especially the not so good ones, of course).

Men's general laziness and exploitation of women is hardly Thailand's exclusivity anyway. I have witnessed it in many other 3rd world countries around the world.

Now, more to the point of the thread. I am one of those lucky ones who have money, time and no need to work (I gladly leave this "pleasure" to Neeranam) and have been lucky enough to have started to travel around the world from a very young age. The last country I have lived in has been Thailand (for almost 4 years) and I am now back at home in Italy getting my second degree (in Nursing, the first one is in Social Sciences) which will allow me to legally move to the USA with my Thai wife.

Through my travelling and living in many different countries around the world, I have quickly realized how really are the peoples, the cultures, the societies, the values and the principles you find outside of the West and I have found them to be EXTREMELY different from what (for their various reasons) we are told they are by the Western PC media/politics/organizations/schools/etc back at home.

The Universal Basic Human Rights are "universal" only in the Western minds that conceived it.

I now firmly believe that the only effective way to deal with the problems foreigners have in our home countries and that we have in foreign countries is RECIPROCATING the s.hit we get anywhere in the world outside of our tiny, fragile Western bubble of civilization.

P.S. And if that means kicking out of my home country my Thai wife because we don't have a combined monthly income of 6/7 times the average Italian wage (as Thailand does), so be it.

You can't put a prime minister on the same level as Thailand's King...neither a president. These are short term elected officials, and never revered and usually they only have the support of less than half of the voters and are disliked/hated by the other half.

Not every Western country has Royalty and/or prominent religious leading figures so I also mentioned the top leaders of those countries which have not Royalty nor prominent religious leading figures.

That must have confused you.

Here is a simplified version of my original reply, hope you answer this one without being sidetracked by PMs and Presidents and remaining focused on religious top leaders and Royalty.

Tropo: "We would expect a similar uproar in Vatican City and Italy if the Pope was similarly mocked."

The present Pope Benedetto XVI (exactly like his predecessor Giovanni Paolo II) IS BEING mocked, caricaturated and generally made fun of in several prime time popular TV comic shows, newspapers and magazines.

Where is a "similar uproar"? Where is the censorship?

The same goes for the UK and its Royalty and all the other Western countries still with Royal figures I know of.

Where are "similar uproars"? Where is the censorship?

We are simply facing a prime example of one of the countless differences between 1st world Western democracies and 3rd world military juntas (ex wannabe banana republics)...

Are there videos mocking the Pope on YouTube?

It should take you no more than a couple of minutes to find out... Since you seem not to believe me what's better than seeing it for yourself?

We would expect a similar uproar in Vatican City and Italy if the Pope was similarly mocked.

The present Pope Benedetto XVI (exactly like his predecessor Giovanni Paolo II) IS BEING mocked, caricaturated and generally made fun of in several prime time popular TV comic shows, newspapers and magazines.

Where is a "similar uproar"? Where is the censorship?

The same goes for Prodi, current PM, and the much hated by the predominantly leftist Italian media former PM Berlusconi. The same goes in the UK for its PM and its Royalty and the same everywhere else in the West and its leaders (and I won't even mention the treatment Bush gets from some American media...).

Where are "similar uproars"? Where is the censorship?

We are simply facing a prime example of one of the countless differences between 1st world Western democracies and 3rd world military juntas (ex wannabe banana republics)...

We would expect a much worse uproar if the profit Mohammed was mocked... some cartoons come to mind.

I wouldn't call "uproar" the blood and deaths our friendly and peaceful Muslim fellows managed to get out of some cartoons...

She is a very atypical, "un-Thai" Thai girl, and so is her immediate family (parents and sisters) and that's why I have let myself commit to her.

Kind of having a farang GF with Asian looks (while my ideal is an Asian GF with farang looks!)

But you have settled for her instead, now that's what I call commitment.

There are much worse reasons than that for commitment over there, maigo6.

Think you are confusing reasons for commitment (love) with conditions for commitment (not having to deal with the typical Thai issues you face when you get yourself involved with Thais and Thai families)

She is a very atypical, "un-Thai" Thai girl, and so is her immediate family (parents and sisters) and that's why I have let myself commit to her.

Kind of having a farang GF with Asian looks (while my ideal is an Asian GF with farang looks!)

But you have settled for her instead, now that's what I call commitment.

It can be interpreted the wrong way only by the same ones who don't understand the difference between ALL and MOST...

Ie, the fact that I find Caucasians, as a rule, more physically attractive than Asians (like I have said) does not mean that there aren't many Asians whom I find EXTREMELY physically attractive, much more than many Caucasians.

The fact that I think Asian GFs with farang looks are generally way better than farang GFs with Asian looks does not mean that I can't be extraordinarily happy with a farang GF with Asian looks nor that each and every Asian GF with farang looks is better than each and every farang GF with Asian looks.

Hard to get for those who can't grasp the "subtle" difference between ALL and MOST, I know...

mmm, maybe you would like to bind their feet too??

You old perv...

but since you dont Trust the Thai culture, why would you want to find the same back in your home??

Because getting married and having children have never interested me!!

Could I find the same "culture", values and principles, social dynamics and male/female kind of relationship back home I could have Italian girls with the ease and in the numbers I used to have Thai girls in Thailand

Anyway, search for my past posts, I'm now back in Italy and married to a Thai... A totally unexpected thing happened to me after 3.5 years in LOS... LOVE

I used to stay well away from (the few) girls genuinely and ONLY interested in me (when you live there, have an active and "successful" social life across their various social classes and speak the language, it's bound to happen) and only played with girls in various forms and stages of "P4Pish" situations but... accidents happen!

She is a very atypical, "un-Thai" Thai girl, and so is her immediate family (parents and sisters) and that's why I have let myself commit to her.

The kind of relationship we have is practically the same as I have had with past Italian and American GFs because SHE is practically the same as them.

Kind of having a farang GF with Asian looks (while my ideal is an Asian GF with farang looks!)

That funny. [...] I feel that the ones who see farangs as a mark are the ones who HAVE been exposed to western culture. the type of culture that is found in P4P environments.

That's even more funny since I thought I clarified that P4P environments aren't the kind of exposure to Western culture and values which I was meaning...

And anyway: "You see not all beautiful educated successful women want your money."

What kind of educated successful women (and how many) are there and are you meeting in Isaan 250+ km from the city?!?

As for how "friendly" they are, that has just about NOTHING to do with what we are discussing here.

P.S. Never met or known of any real upcountry beautiful educated successful woman (not that many of them around, to begin with, especially young and/or successful "on their own") who wants to associate (especially on her home turf) with "baksidas" purely for the pleasure/curiosity of it.

These conversation, just somehow reminds me about racism.

About how Adolf Hitler justified his decisions to bring in all the Jews for genocide.

And this reply just somehow reminds me about plain total PC stupidity

They too, ask for respect, love, freedom to do what they want or what they think they are brought up to do.

BTW, with me they are absolutely free to "do what they are brought up to do"!

Are we being too hypocritical here to condemn them all?

Still talking about "ALL"?!?

Now I see how you could come up talking about racism...

Does it means that your home country, does not have females cheating their boyfriends, their husband, for a home to stay, a car to drive, some cash to spend? And if so, What the Fark are you looking for gals from Thailand?

Personally, I have NEVER been looking for GFs or wives in Thailand, I've just been enjoying there (together with the resident Thai guys) the benefits granted to (relatively) well heeled guys by Thailand's cultural setting and Thai "values" and "principles"...

And since I find Caucasians much more physically attractive than Asians, I really wish I could find back home the same social norms and cultural issues as in Thailand and the same males/females kind of relationship!!!!

If only what you believe was true... Jeez, you're so clueless it hurts

I'd say be very careful, theres a lot of good thai women out there- I know, I've met a few- but the only ones who regularly come in contact with farangs (foreigners) are hookers, or bar girls, or trannies, or any combination of the three.

Most probably you aren't referring to it but it's a good occasion to clarify that by exposure to Western culture and values I didn't mean "P4Pish" venues and encounters, I mostly meant getting an education/growing up

In other words, you have to look for atypical, "un-Thai" Thais

P.S. And yes, they are out there, in growing (yet still very small) numbers. And not only in "the big city".

When you say 'Most', are you referring to inner city areas or locations that this life style is 'usual'. Or are you saying that this is all over there, life in 'general' throughout LOS. Shouldnt one (farang or other) just simply just pay attention to the warning signs?

It all comes from the culture so wherever and whenever you come across people who have had some form of contact with (and have been, of course, receptive to) Western culture and Western values you are most likely to find better prospects and more trustworthy people.

In other words, you have a better chance of meeting someone who looks at relationships from the same angle we do.

Of course, it's STILL possible to meet nice and trustworthy Thai people from all paths of life, places, social classes and income brackets. It's just unlikely

I feel sorry for your perceptions of Thai women. With this attitude, I doubt if you'll ever be happy, thinking they are all after your money.

Will you lot ever get it? It's not ALL, it's MOST.

As in "generally", "usually", "normally", "on average"...

P.S. It still seems your loaded NA-surnamed Thai lady friend hasn't chosen a 20000 bath/month English teacher after all...

Sounds like a vicious cycle. Appears to be certain expectations that a women expects will occur in the future that does not leave must room for trust on either side, wealthy Thai or a farang vs the women.

What you call a vicious cycle is simply the way things are in Thailand (and in other places you should know well...).

Thais get scammed much less in their country simply because they trust their fellow Thais MUCH LESS than "farang fools" do...

You find it sad and tiresome to have to be always on your guard and wary of others? Well, that's how usually Thais live all their lives, welcome to the LOS

Do you bother to tell them that chances of being screwed over are MUCH higher with a Thai man?

Not many Thai guys will buy a house and land in her name in the first place, many Farangs tend to do this as a hobby.

Well, since you wrote:

I always advise Thai women to get what they can while they can from a Farang, cos there is a very good chance that the farang will cheat on her and eventually leave her for a younger model.

Get the house and land first, then let the old fool do what he wants............................

it's still unclear whether you are advising those Thai women to be wary of "old farang fools" or to prefer them over Thai men.

All that Thai women have usually to show for their past relationships with Thai men is abandoned children while past relationships with "old farang fools" usually leave them with various combinations of houses, lands, businesses, bank accounts, gold etc

I agree with you that they are, indeed, "fools": they should do as Thai men do...

Or... isn't this what you are trying to say?

The other thing that I don't get is how their age ("old farang fools") is of any relevance since that is a trait that hardly distinguishes them from richer older Thai men sponsoring students of their daughters' age or keeping mia nois half their age.

Oh... maybe I see now... they old Thai sages do not marry much younger women like old farang fools do, they just play with them!

Maigo6, I've been reading some of your (and a couple of others') posts and I have rarely seen such a concentration of "utter rubbish" in quite a while on these boards

I would love to see where, HOW and with whom you lot live your wonderful life in LOS. It would give, I'm sure, a lot of credibility to your opinions...

I already have a happy and healthy sentimental and sexual life

Oh, that's what they call now.........

Must be political correctness.

Why is w.anking the first thing that your mind associate to a "happy and healthy sentimental and sexual life"......?

whatever happened to the theory of unique individuals.

It's never been as Asian "theory".........

Individualities and individual thinking are ACTIVELY DISCOURAGED in Asia and certainly in Thailand.

Note for the blind daydreaming black&white folks: that doesn't equate to saying they are clones and that in Asia there aren't individualities and individual thinking.

That simply means that you find much less individual thinking here than in the (Western) countries where individual thinking is actively encouraged.

Apparently age is very important to you BAF. Quantity of years, over Quality of person? But... allow... me... to... remind... you... that... this... thread... is... about... a... 40... year... old... Thai... woman... who... is... far... closer... to... achieving... success... with.... a... Western... man.... than... a... 40... year.... old.... Western... woman... is.... I hope this was slow enough for you?!

It's not about me, in2it1, I already have a happy and healthy sentimental and sexual life

It's not me the one "looking forward to any advice or opinions" (as per your opening post).

The notion I've been trying to put into your head is that age and the other things I've mentioned (plus many others) are very important for the culture and the society she is from and she is living in.

Didn't you want to learn about Thai culture which is "admittedly new" to you? You have in a successive post said that you "dated a Chinese woman in Beijing for over a year and dated several Koreans in the past" and your initial claim was that you are " far from nieve, ignorant, or inexperienced in the ways of the world". Sadly, the fact that you have lived in Asia (you say) coupled with what you have written in your last posts have confirmed to me that you are just another one of those blind daydreamers who have crowded the thread and for which I have no time nor respect since they are one of the main reasons for which we Westerners are taken for fools here and aren't given the respect and the level of "service" Thai men use to get...

My parting words are, again, good luck.

Although now I don't think you deserve it.

P.S. And BTW, I've never said that ALL of them are out to get you nor that she SURELY is, I was simply trying to help you by pointing out, naively believing you really were "looking forward to any advice or opinions", the most likely scenario...

lol thanks Alex...for once I feel I have some kindred in my limited views

BAF.....but just for the record....Im in thailand....have always been here........but what would I know huh

PS> EDIT to add that> IM prolly just one more of those UNMARRIED, UNWANTED thai women

Assuming you really are a Thai female: can you repeat, slowly, that you actually believe that in current day Thai society a 40 yo woman has as many chances to find love and get married in Thailand as a Western 40 yo woman has in the West..?

[i know at this point I should ask you what kind of knowledge do you have on the West since you "have always been" in Thailand, but it's fun enough as it is... ]

P.S. This is just an anonymous internet board so, can you tell us your age?

Well, I agree Thailand is a few years back than the rest of the world (some parts), but still, as Mig said, "...more to the point what century are YOU living in?" I might add, what planet and what galaxy?

As in most other things, Thailand is hardly unique or exceptional.

Look at the demographic and realize that, by force of numbers, the exception is today's "Farangland" and the rest of the world is "the norm"...

take it from me thai girls who arent married by lates 20 are not wanted by thai men. considered old hags. im the messenger dont get huffy with me.

what century are we living in

more to the point what century are YOU living in

And yet more to the point: what COUNTRY are you living in?

Sorry for being blunt, but having read your first post and your replies to some of the responses you got, it seems you aren't as "far from naive, ignorant, or inexperienced in the ways of the world" as you think you are...

If you really have lived for any extension of time in any 3rd world country and you are not one of those blind daydreamers these boards are full of, you should have noticed the many common themes in those cultures and their social dynamics. Asia, Africa, (Mexico and Central and South) America or (East) Europe, it doesn't matter.

Contrary to what you wrote, it seems you aren't really looking for opinions and advices too. Anyway here is mine: 40 years old? Let me guess, her last "relationship" has been with a foreigner...

You are looking for love in the wrong places and in the wrong ways.

Good luck.

SO IS IT A WOMAN UNDER 40 ,NEVER BEEN WITH A FARANG HE NEEDS ? DOSENT SAY A LOT ABOUT US DOES IT,.

It seems you are as "far from naive, ignorant, or inexperienced in the ways of the world" as our lovesick friend

The point, lost on you and on others on this thread, was that a farang is what a Thai 40 yo woman living in the LOS needs if she is still looking for love and/or a family (or, more realistically, just the security she hasn't yet got or has lost at 40).

We are, sadly, their best bet. And if they are from the lower classes/education/wealth and/or already married (to a Thai of course...) and/or with children and/or with the physical traits many farangs seem to like but the Thais do not you can say we are pretty much their ONLY chance.

And yes, it does say a lot about us and a lot about the Thais and their values.

P.S. "We" are not all the same of course: I'm around 10 years her junior and I'm as interested in Thai women of my age as the average Thai is, let alone 40 yo...

I also happen to share the common accepted Thai concept of beauty. Now, what does that say about me and the average Thai man..?

I am far from nieve, ignorant, or inexperienced in the ways of the world.

Sorry for being blunt, but having read your first post and your replies to some of the responses you got, it seems you aren't as "far from naive, ignorant, or inexperienced in the ways of the world" as you think you are...

If you really have lived for any extension of time in any 3rd world country and you are not one of those blind daydreamers these boards are full of, you should have noticed the many common themes in those cultures and their social dynamics. Asia, Africa, (Mexico and Central and South) America or (East) Europe, it doesn't matter.

Contrary to what you wrote, it seems you aren't really looking for opinions and advices too. Anyway here is mine: 40 years old? Let me guess, her last "relationship" has been with a foreigner...

You are looking for love in the wrong places and in the wrong ways.

Good luck.

Sorry but wrong again, There are thousands of students who wish to attend and are indeed attending Al-Azhar university. It might not compare favorably with Oxford and Harvard, but 2000 years ago Oxford and Harvard did not exist, so it was the premier place of learning at it's inception and for the next millenia.

The abysmal ignorance so shamelessly displayed from people who pose as experts of anything on a public forum with no knowledge on whom they might be speaking to and without not even the effort of a quick internet search on the crap they are about to post (which only Allah knows where was taken from) beggar belief...

I know I have promised not to post anymore on this thread but I wish this to be a reminder of how carefully people and their mostly uninfoirmed opinions are to be taken on these anonymous forums...

Pampal, 2000 years ago Oxford and Harvard did not exist, Al-Azhar did not exist and Cairo (the Egyptian city where Al-Azhar is) did not exist.

The "premier places of learning", as you say, where the damned Roman schools 'cause it was all there was, and the part of Egypt where Al-Azhar will be built 1000 years later was yet another Roman province.

Cairo was built around the year 639 as an Arab encampment using a pre-existing Roman fort (yes, always those damned Romans!) and Al-Azhar "university" was built around the year 988 as an annex of the Al-Azhar mosque (built by a Sicilian warlord). The title of the oldest "university" does not refer to an Arab "invention" of the concept of university but the fact that Al-Azhar is the oldest or the second oldest (after the university of Al Karaouine in Fez, Morocco) one amongst those in operation today. They both started as Madrasahs (schools of Islamic theology) and that explains it all...

Still today, Al-Azhar does not admit students who are not practicing Islam. And that's how they embody the true international, bondless and boarderless spirit of the higher teaching which is the essence of the idea of university...

Now, to clear this garbage about who and when "started a tradition that is the foundation of inquiry of most of the leading systems of higher learning" the very idea and concept and the very definition of university come from THE ROMANS, university is none other than the short for the Roman schools universitas magistrorum et scholarium and they developed and formalized an even earlier Greek concept of "communities of students and masters".

Now, about the FORMAL institutions of universities as we know them today, they developed in Europe around the 1100-1200 (so 100-200 years later than Al-Azhar if we want to consider Madrasahs as proper universities but then again under the same definition we would have had them MUCH earlier than Al-Azhar...).

In Italy (by Western standards and definition of "University", the oldest in the world is the "Alma mater studiorum", the Bologna University, 1088), France, Germany, England, Scotland, Poland and Bohemia.

In academic circles there were no language barriers because the language of the scholars was still the Latin and the lessons were entirely in Latin (in Italy, France, Germany, England, Scotland, Poland and Bohemia).

So each university developed its own specialization (for example, Bologna in Jurisprudence, Salerno -in Italy- in Medicine, Paris in Theology and Philosophy, Montpellier in Medicine, Oxford in Sperimental Sciences etc).

If we were to consider Madrasahs-like istitutions of higher teachings as proper contemporary universities we in Europe had those hundreds of years before Al-Azhar and they were the medieval universities of the Roman Catholic Church, the cathedral schools and the Studia Generali and they actually put the accent on the normal studies instead of the religious ones much more than in the Madrasahs and proof of this is that most of them transformed themselves in "normal" and ordinary universities (just think of the University of Paris, once a cathedral school) while once Madrasahs like Al-Azhar are today open only to Muslims...

I am stopping here, pampal, since you are as ignorant about universities as you are about anything else you have written about in your post and I don't wont to waste any more of my precious time educating someone who does not even bother to google Al-Azhar before so boldly proclaiming that "2000 years ago Oxford and Harvard did not exist, so it was the premier place of learning at it's inception and for the next millenia"......

Pampal, we have had, have today and will have in the future much to learn from other cultures but they have had, have today and will have MUCH MUCH more to learn from us...

History and the contemporary world show us this, take off the PC rose colored glasses, open your eyes and you will (maybe) see it.

BAF,

The romans only occupied the equivalent of about half of europe in total territory.

And I promise that's the last from me on this thread

As shochu says: "History speaks for itself" and that's just about the only thing we can agree on.

The real key is, of course, knowing the History...

That may also be the link to the topic: knowing Thai history (which isn't even taught at their schools apart those fairy tales being passed for it) gives you the tools to interpret the current situation, to understand the issues at play here and to imagine where LOS is heading...

What I have found - is that western medicine does not treat the cause - but only the symptoms, whereas asian medicine treats the root cause.

I was going to reply to your other post but I've just realized whom am I dealing with...

Just a quick note: "The difference was, that christianity was used as a way for nations to sanction their attrocious acts of genocide, slavery, and wealth transfer. Yes, Islam aslo did this, but not to the degree the western nations did. If they did anything, it was really in reaction to the church and their vassal states in their pogroms against people of other beliefs, and a way for the church to have a far reaching domain really for the subjugation of all people under their system. The chinese, on the other hand unified the area of current china and really were a trading nation with the islamic nations and really living more or less at peace with other peoples. They did not try to conquer and invade like the western nations have and create colonies to be raped and pillaged for their wealth." this is the kind of totally groundless and completely historically false PC inspired crap which is leading to the end of the Western supremacy.

Then, the real fun will begin and you will have real life experiences (the only kinds capable of waking up blind and history-ignorant PC daydreamers like you) of how "Islam don't do it to the degree the Western nations do" and how the Chinese "live at peace with other peoples"...