Thailand's Hidden Crisis of Homeless Foreigners

2 hours ago, pchansmorn said:

No back up plan can be dangerous. If it looks to be to good to be true, it probably is. Poor planning. We have been living in Thailand for 15 years, retired from the US and living on our retirement income from the US. You must plan when you move to a foreign country.

I agree wholeheartedly! We made our plan to be here, but we laid out contingencies if things happen. The YouTube videos make it really enticing to come here, but you have to look way beyond the 30 minute videos to truly understand everything to make the step to get here. We, like you, have multiple revenue streams and planned this time of our lives many years before catching that plane(in our case ship) to SE Asia.

I feel for the woman, but one needs to plan, plan again, and re-plan before coming here. I hope she finds a resolution to her issue!

2 hours ago, Muhendis said:

"In some cases, international banks froze their accounts after detecting suspicious activity, requiring customers to appear in person in their home countries before funds could be released."

This is the really scary one. The banks are free to act as judge and jury with little or no regard to the owner of the account.

Supposing a bank froze an account thus requiring the owner of the account to appear in person. Would the bank accept costs incurred in the event of said suspicions proving to be groundless?

The answer to that is "of course they wouldn't"

The wording "suspicious activity" is actually "unusual activity" which means unexpected withdrawals. So for example, if you have an expensive car repair bill to pay using your Thai bank account which you then need to top up from your home country bank, this could be deemed to be unusual activity.

I don't have a high opinion of banks.

Even notifying your bank in advance of travel to Thailand isn't always enough which I found out the hard way.

Ten years ago I carefully notified both my US banks and card holders of my plans for an extended stay in Thailand. I was assured by all that I was covered and would not have any issues: Yah!, Right!

"This transaction can not be completed. Please contact your issuing bank"

This cold message displayed on the Bangkok ATM from which I was attempting to withdraw my monthly Social Security deposit. I won't go into the many details and roadblocks I encountered trying to regain access to my account, just that it took in excess of two months, dozens of phone calls and a few dents in my apartment walls.

It turned out an internal bank system update had cleared all notations on my account, including the details of my stay in Thailand. It just shows that no matter how carefully one tries to cover all the bases, there are actions totally out of your control that can make your life very difficult.

Fortunately for me, I had a back-up account, something I urge all long-term stayers in any foreign country to have. It just may save you from sleeping on a bench.

So, all we read in AN about return ticket if you don't have a proper visa, and 20k baht in cash when visa exempt, seems not to work in practice. Another subject might be the in practise unregulated easy access to cannabis — and yes, I'm in favour of medical cannabis and natural health — which might invite a wrong group of visitors. Makes me think of Uncle Tu — former prime minister Prayut Chan-o-cha — he seemed to be quite right when talking about 'quality tourists' should be preferred rather than mass tourism. The DTV however — if handled correctly — should screen for funds and foreign income; so, this visa might not be a major problem.

The number mentioned — 'assisted around 45 homeless foreign nationals over an eight-month period' — is actually not scary, compared to the number of foreign visitors; around 32 millions within a year. Some might be expats, or just people, who did not had a plan-B and a backdoor to return, if their paradise-dream collapsed. You'll find those kind of folks in many, if not most, countries. However, it's my speculation, as there is no reliable statistics. In EU homeless foreigners are said to be widely other EU-citizens, but there are no records of nationality. The U.S. government does neither track the precise number of foreigners or citizenship status, within their official homelessness databases.

In a way homeless moneyless foreigners should be sent home — deported — but embassies do not seems to be much help. My Danish home country's embassy do not help bringing their citizens home, if they cannot pay for the ticket, either themselves or family; even when assisting in a castrophe situation, they'll cahrge you for the repatriation caosts when you are home. Depending on where the homeless originates from, coming home could be the salvation, as their home country might provide help, when that have returned. This is the situation for us Danes — and probably most Europeans — we just need ourselves, to find a way bach home first.

For people dreaming about living in paradise — retirement or distance work, same-same — the most important is having financial security and enough savings for emergency. As the case mentioned in the OP-article, about her loosing a distance work job, which was the base for living in LoS, she should have a way to return — i.e. savings for emergency — until she has a new source of income in order. Don't dream, before you have the financial part cleared.

7 hours ago, Effective altruism said:

It sounds like she was living from one paycheck to the next.

A “ counsellor “ with no savings or plan strikes me as ironic

Nah.

20000 us dollars work best.

Credit card is second.

Ps Having both is the best.

$20K cash is too much. That exceeds the amount most countries allow you to carry without reporting it at Customs. You'd probably get away with it, but why risk it? And 20K baht isn't enough to buy a ticket home, so that requirement isn't that useful.

I aim for $4,900, which is less than the $5K that triggers the reporting requirement (in most of the countries I cross). Over the past 25+ years of traveling and living in Asia, it's saved my bacon on several occasions when the banks back home froze my cards and even closed my accounts because of suspicious activity (and because I no longer had a US mailing address).

Travel enough to enough countries and there's a good chance it'll happen, usually at an inopportune time. Cold hard cash (USD, GBP, Euros) can be a lifesaver. Make sure they're new bills and of mixed denominations. I've been saved by a $20 bill when a hotel wanted 500 baht for a key deposit, and I hadn't hit the ATM yet on arrival.

20 minutes ago, dddave said:

Even notifying your bank in advance of travel to Thailand isn't always enough which I found out the hard way.

Ten years ago I carefully notified both my US banks and card holders of my plans for an extended stay in Thailand. I was assured by all that I was covered and would not have any issues: Yah!, Right!

"This transaction can not be completed. Please contact your issuing bank"

This cold message displayed on the Bangkok ATM from which I was attempting to withdraw my monthly Social Security deposit. I won't go into the many details and roadblocks I encountered trying to regain access to my account, just that it took in excess of two months, dozens of phone calls and a few dents in my apartment walls.

It turned out an internal bank system update had cleared all notations on my account, including the details of my stay in Thailand. It just shows that no matter how carefully one tries to cover all the bases, there are actions totally out of your control that can make your life very difficult.

Fortunately for me, I had a back-up account, something I urge all long-term stayers in any foreign country to have. It just may save you from sleeping on a bench.

I used to be a frequent flyer in and out of Thailand for work. As per your advice I had a Citibank Visa credit card that I kept in my wallet solely for the purpose of travel emergencies, so that I wasn't reliant on a single piece of plastic (if my other one is declined what do I do now, 4 thousand miles from home?)

Edited 4 hours ago4 hr by Andrew65

8 hours ago, Effective altruism said:

It sounds like she was living from one paycheck to the next.

Since she comes from a country with 600,000 homeless people sleeping on the street, and where 40% of adults can't cover a $400 emergency without borrowing money, she sounds like the average American.

2 hours ago, Thingamabob said:

The first lesson to learn before arriving in Thailand is that most Thai people worship money more than they worship anything else.

Interesting.

But the thread is about homeless foreigners.

"One resident, identified as “Jane”, a 57-year-old American whose real name was changed for privacy reasons, said she faced homelessness after losing her remote counselling job three to four weeks after arriving in Thailand. She had previously worked on Wall Street and spent five years working online before moving abroad."

My question is how can someone become homeless after a mere 4 weeks from losing their job ? What happened to the savings you made on Wall Street and the five years working online. Sounds like a story fabricated to garner sympathy. I am always suspicious of someone who makes up their name for "privacy" reasons.

3 minutes ago, riverhigh said:

"One resident, identified as “Jane”, a 57-year-old American whose real name was changed for privacy reasons, said she faced homelessness after losing her remote counselling job three to four weeks after arriving in Thailand. She had previously worked on Wall Street and spent five years working online before moving abroad."

My question is how can someone become homeless after a mere 4 weeks from losing their job ? What happened to the savings you made on Wall Street and the five years working online. Sounds like a story fabricated to garner sympathy. I am always suspicious of someone who makes up their name for "privacy" reasons.

It certainly doesn’t add up unless she fell foul of some scam. And since the story doesn’t mention that, I doubt it happened.

She might have been a janitor at a Wall Street office building which would explain why she doesn’t have any savings and also why she wasn’t any good at remote counseling. Just joking.

Her story is either incomplete or she is a total idiot to relocate to another country with basically not a penny to her name.

The numbers quoted in this story don’t sound like a crisis. At any given time I’m sure there has been a few dozen foreigners on the streets here.

46 minutes ago, khunPer said:

As the case mentioned in the OP-article, about her loosing a distance work job, which was the base for living in LoS, she should have a way to return — i.e. savings for emergency — until she has a new source of income in order. Don't dream, before you have the financial part cleared.

If she was a DTVer, as that is the visa for that sort of online distance work, then she should have had 500,000 in her home country's bank account. Unless she worked around with an agent to falsify funds. The DTV is a big problem. But there is also the problem of certain groups that identify themselves as "(Blank) in Thailand." They announce their arrivals and their plans to arrive with a permanent stay in mind and then do not even know a visa is required. Yep, just like that, they're moving to Thailand and use the FB groups to ask where to enroll their (many) children in school, ask if there are any jobs, and where is the best place to find people that look like them. That's what is coming to Thailand these days.

8 hours ago, Georgealbert said:

access public healthcare services.

You need a have a job at least three months to access free healthcare

3 hours ago, CecilM said:

How is this a crisis? They're easily identified as they're not hiding in some apartment. Pick up, process, deport.

You are not deported if you can't pay airfare, you end up in Immigration prison

4 hours ago, pchansmorn said:

No back up plan can be dangerous. If it looks to be to good to be true, it probably is. Poor planning. We have been living in Thailand for 15 years, retired from the US and living on our retirement income from the US. You must plan when you move to a foreign country.

Absolutely! A backup plan is essential since this isn't your home country and you probably don't know all the rules, pitfalls, and scams here. Plus I keep most of my money in my home country and just live off the interest generated, interest rates at banks--and even most funds here, are abysmal. Don't invest more than you can afford to lose in a foreign country.

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s instructive to observe how far down the well of human misery some need to go to find someone that makes them feel good about themselves.

"Ibi nisi per gratiam Dei eo."

Personally, I believe if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. An imaginary God has nothing to do with the outcome.

4 hours ago, Muhendis said:

"In some cases, international banks froze their accounts after detecting suspicious activity, requiring customers to appear in person in their home countries before funds could be released."

This is the really scary one. The banks are free to act as judge and jury with little or no regard to the owner of the account.

Supposing a bank froze an account thus requiring the owner of the account to appear in person. Would the bank accept costs incurred in the event of said suspicions proving to be groundless?

The answer to that is "of course they wouldn't"

The wording "suspicious activity" is actually "unusual activity" which means unexpected withdrawals. So for example, if you have an expensive car repair bill to pay using your Thai bank account which you then need to top up from your home country bank, this could be deemed to be unusual activity.

I don't have a high opinion of banks.

My bank in Australia advises very strongly that customers inform them if they intend to go overseas...holiday, business or whatever.

I guess Part of this is so they are aware of possible transactions from that country or countries and don't reject the transaction or freeze the account.

Under "Personal Particulars" I fill in my Thai address (marriage extensions).

So, this might be a good idea as part of planning for customers venturing overseas as tourists or long term.

Just a thought.

Locally, BBL reject a few transactions each year which they consider 'dodgy'....like a recent one with someone trying to buy something using my Debit card details.....in Mexican pesos!!

BBL rejected that one and informed me by phone and SMS.

They also recommended that I get a new ATM/Debit card...which I did (free), but they didn't freeze my account.

If something arises when I'm overseas, it's been a simple phone call (includes customer identification etc) but NOT having to front up to a branch in person!

4 hours ago, newbee2022 said:

Easy to fix these problems: scrap the DTV visa, and soon those losers will have to look for another place or stay home, looking for a proper job.

To get DTV you have to show online income and a minimum of 500k THB cash. I'd be surprised if anybody on DTV is actually homeless. The bigger problem are broke visa-free tourists who really have no business flying to a foreign country to begin with - people living paycheck to paycheck, no savings at all, no one to help them if they get stuck, etc. Lately there are a lot more of them because there's way too many low budget influencers encouraging low budget people to come.

Thailand could solve this problem by a simple rule: any country who will not help its citizens repatriate immediately when stuck, does not get to remain on the visa-free list. If the embassies are not willing to help - eliminate the problem by requiring visas from those countries. (alternatvely - if restricting visa-free from a certain country will severely harm tourism and does not make economic sense - be prepared to handle the few cases that will happen).

1 hour ago, riverhigh said:

My question is how can someone become homeless after a mere 4 weeks from losing their job ? What happened to the savings you made on Wall Street and the five years working online. Sounds like a story fabricated to garner sympathy. I am always suspicious of someone who makes up their name for "privacy" reasons.

Answer.

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

Since she comes from a country with 600,000 homeless people sleeping on the street, and where 40% of adults can't cover a $400 emergency without borrowing money, she sounds like the average American.

It's cultural.

A lot of these guys have homes, it's just unfortunate the property is not in their name. 🙂

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by KhunHeineken

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Personally, I believe if you fail to plan, you plan to fail. An imaginary God has nothing to do with the outcome.

Regardless, there’s something deeply flawed with people who have to descend to the level of the homeless in order to find someone they can look down upon.

2 hours ago, impulse said:

$20K cash is too much. That exceeds the amount most countries allow you to carry without reporting it at Customs.

Oops my bad.

Meant 2,000 Dollars.

5 hours ago, Deerculler said:

The bank thing happened to me.

At least the bank contacted me and communicated before they froze my account

It cost me a lot in phone calls and solicitor fees here Thailand.

And caused was >

I asked my bank in my home country bank if I could use my home country bank to transfer money to my bank account in Thailand.

That is what caused it.

I have been with that bank for 50 years and have been living in Thailand for 16 years.

So be aware. It can be quite scary when it happens and it doesn't take much.

5 hours ago, Deerculler said:

The bank thing happened to me.

At least the bank contacted me and communicated before they froze my account

It cost me a lot in phone calls and solicitor fees here Thailand.

And caused was >

I asked my bank in my home country bank if I could use my home country bank to transfer money to my bank account in Thailand.

That is what caused it.

I have been with that bank for 50 years and have been living in Thailand for 16 years.

So be aware. It can be quite scary when it happens and it doesn't take much.

I went through the exact same thing once. Back then, I only had one Swiss bank account, and out of nowhere, my bank transfers failed and my ATM card stopped working. Suddenly, I looked just like one of those sketchy expats who claim exactly that while trying to borrow cash from other foreigners. Only, unlike me, those guys don't actually have any money or a bank account and are just using it as a sob story. But I honestly had no other option, even though I felt really uncomfortable about it. Everything started working again after about 10 days, but those days were a total nightmare. Ever since, I’ve had three different accounts at three different banks. Never again.

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I wonder what percentage of these guys got scammed by expert women who knew exactly what to say and exactly what strings to pull?

I always advise guys before coming here to read a few of the books on Thai romance scams.

The secondary aspect of this is that Thailand has been so obsessed with the numbers that they've lowered the visa standards to the point where they're attracting truly the bottom of the barrel, when it comes to tourism and this is just one of the many repercussions.

I've always said quantity over quality only works if you're selling $2 items at a swap meet, the intellectually challenged Thai officials have no understanding of this concept. Their CJQ (creative juice quotient) is under 3.

Always reminds me of my three years working in Spain as a youth. Off the books of course, but always got by, awful jobs, chicken a gogo shops, selling fresh Beignets in a Belgium pastry shop, etc. one British family came in and bought 1 beignet and an ice-cream for the couple and 2 kids. Every day. The lady said they were on an all inclusive holiday, and this was their only treat of the day. She thought Spain was expensive, where really it was very cheap in those days.

Those are the type of tourists thailand attracts now. Many on those FB posts asking where to get the cheapest all inclusive .

Rare in Thailand. Cheapest rooms, cheapest trips, etc.

No safety net , holidays on overdraft.

This year I helped a French family of 5 , broke in Thailand when all the flights were canceled. For the 10 days wait they had to stay in a cheap place far out of central bangkok and I had to take them to a boots pharmacy to get the grandfather’s meds as he was terrified he didn’t have the money . I paid, they were cheap anyway. Down to their last few baht. This should not be happening.

I think return tickets are necessary. And a visa would help with more practical information.

3 hours ago, RMK54 said:

I agree wholeheartedly! We made our plan to be here, but we laid out contingencies if things happen. The YouTube videos make it really enticing to come here, but you have to look way beyond the 30 minute videos to truly understand everything to make the step to get here. We, like you, have multiple revenue streams and planned this time of our lives many years before catching that plane(in our case ship) to SE Asia.

I feel for the woman, but one needs to plan, plan again, and re-plan before coming here. I hope she finds a resolution to her issue!

Makes me think of that Bangkok Pat vlog where he points out all these vloggers who extol the fantastic apartments you can rent for a pittance in the city, but fail to mention that the whole district is underwater and barely accessible every time it rains in rainy season.

5 hours ago, trucking said:

If there is was thing that can absolutely save your a** in any dire emergency , it is a credit card from your bank back home.

I seldom use mine , just enough so that it is not withdrawn from lack of use. I keep it in a very safe place and it seldom sees the light of day.

This one thing is more than enough to cover a ticket home , some accomodation and evenlow rate medical bills. I don't need it but it a great comfort that it is available in an emergency.

If you do regular spending on the card in Thailand it is much less likely to be rejected for your emergency spend as you’ve established a pattern of spending here. It’s unusual activity (such as you’re relying on to do here) that will trigger a query/ rejection. Set up direct debit so the balance is paid off every month. I spend very considerably on mine all the time and even large sums aren’t queried .

26 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I don't disagree. Where do you get the idea I am?

If I want to look down on anybody, there is an ample supply of anti-vaxxers and MAGA's on ASEAN, with the intelligence of an amoeba.

Now you've gone and upset the amoebae.

What are their respective embassies doing ? America spends trillions on making wars and trouble all over but cannot pay to repatriate it's own who are homeless in Thailand and are giving a disastrous image of America. Same of course for other so-called "developped" western nations who are absolutely not taking care of their own - at lease to round up these people and send them back to their home land.

2 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

To get DTV you have to show online income and a minimum of 500k THB cash. I'd be surprised if anybody on DTV is actually homeless. The bigger problem are broke visa-free tourists who really have no business flying to a foreign country to begin with - people living paycheck to paycheck, no savings at all, no one to help them if they get stuck, etc. Lately there are a lot more of them because there's way too many low budget influencers encouraging low budget people to come.

Thailand could solve this problem by a simple rule: any country who will not help its citizens repatriate immediately when stuck, does not get to remain on the visa-free list. If the embassies are not willing to help - eliminate the problem by requiring visas from those countries. (alternatvely - if restricting visa-free from a certain country will severely harm tourism and does not make economic sense - be prepared to handle the few cases that will happen).

Times if Santa, or fairy tales??😂😂. The DTV for people who want to stay cheap for 6 months at least, just booking a cooking course, or playing the hard guy by booking Muangthai course for a week complaint of painstaking Sport, or "Content Creator" (😂😂😂). They all never looked for a proper job (didn't learn or study) ....nobody needs them, nobody

2 hours ago, PingRoundTheWorld said:

To get DTV you have to show online income and a minimum of 500k THB cash. I'd be surprised if anybody on DTV is actually homeless. The bigger problem are broke visa-free tourists who really have no business flying to a foreign country to begin with - people living paycheck to paycheck, no savings at all, no one to help them if they get stuck, etc. Lately there are a lot more of them because there's way too many low budget influencers encouraging low budget people to come.

Thailand could solve this problem by a simple rule: any country who will not help its citizens repatriate immediately when stuck, does not get to remain on the visa-free list. If the embassies are not willing to help - eliminate the problem by requiring visas from those countries. (alternatvely - if restricting visa-free from a certain country will severely harm tourism and does not make economic sense - be prepared to handle the few cases that will happen).

Well, that's Santa tales😂💗😂.

The DTV visa will allow you to come for a cooking course, booked at home for some days, or booking a Muangthai course for the all tattood quality losers, complaining when a bit hurt on day one. They all allowed to come here. Also so called "Content Creators" 🤣, or remote workers, far away from any work. All work-life-balance lovers, ran away from education, school or employment. We don't know if all the paperwork is genuine to get the visa, but I'm sure Riffraff will find a way. There is ONE necessary change to come; health/travel insurance.