UK Confirms Pension Freeze for Expats in Thailand

3 hours ago, JAG said:

I suspect many do not realise that expatriates still have the vote to write in Westminster elections and referendums. I understand that you can ask tyo remain on the electoral register in the Constituency in which you last lived. It is relatively easily managed by email, and proxy voting. A significant number of registered to vote expatriates making this an issue may concentrate minds?

Only for fifteen years after you leave can you vote in uk general elections.

19 minutes ago, simon43 said:

3 years ago, I was diagnosed by the best private hospital in Thailand that I had prostate cancer. My French company private medical insurer refused to pay on a technicality for treatment (bastards..), and I therefore made the decision to return permanently to the UK and seek NHS treatment. I arrived in the UK, rented a temporary room in a dingy hotel in Blackpool (a city with which I had no family ties etc), and went down to the local GP to register. I explained that I was a returning expat from Thailand, with the intention of remaining in the UK, (which was true, because I had been told that I had prostate cancer, and being in my 60s, it seemed the best path to take). At no time was I asked to pay for treatment/investigations, nor was I made to wait. I was fast-tracked....

I hid nothing from the GP. He registered me immediately and within 5 days I was at Blackpool NHS, where I was seen by a postate cancer doctor. Again, I explained my background and was fast-tracked for further tests etc, especially because the experienced doctor looked at the MRI scans from the expensive Thai hospital and stated his doubts that I had cancer.

Subsequent to all this and 2 months of waiting for an extensive biopsy (they didn't want to do the biopsy immediately because I had bad UTIs etc), the 24-needle biopsy was performed, and not a single cancer cell was found, only benign calcium nodules!!

With this shadow hanging over me removed, I then had second-thoughts about remaining in the UK, and I asked my GP if I returned to Thailand/overseas, would I need to pay for the NHS treatment that I had. The answer was an emphatic 'no', because at the time of treatment etc, it WAS my honest intention to remain in the UK (because those wonderful Thai doctors said I had cancer). The fact that I subsequently changed my mind over where to live was irrelevant (said my GP), because my original intent was clear (I had registered with a GP, registered on the electoral role etc).

If you return to the UK with the honest intention to remain there, then NHS treatment is free and not delayed, (apart from the typical delays incurred by everyone for having your gammy hip replaced etc). Cancer diagnosis etc is fast-tracked.

Interesting. Thanks. On the subject of wonderful Thai doctors, I was once told I had pneumonia when in fact I had severe food poisoning. I was also, bizarrely, given a stomach scan similar to that used during pregnancy. I guess that proved to the doctor that my problem wasn't due to my being pregnant.

After continuing to deteriorate, I was taken to a private hospital where I was told I would have been dead in two days. Even there, during my stay the water pump at the hospital failed and staff carried buckets of water up to my room. Also, my drip stopped and I pressed the emergency button and no-one came. I went looking for someone and upon investigation they found the alarm didn't work. It also didn't work two days later after someone had 'fixed' it. So someone could die in that room and no-one would know why.

Also, a friend of mine had a heart attack and was told he had indigestion. Fortunately, someone took him to a different hospital where he was treated and his life saved. Calling upon the medical profession in Thailand is like playing Russian Roulette. I'm certain that some doctors qualify by buying a white coat. Well, we know they do as fake doctors are often exposed and clinics raided.

Reckon the uk will start to tax all non residents at 20% on all uk income and all pensions in the coming years.

That tax free allowance of 12,570 will be gone

You just watch, what the greedy sods get up to.

Uk government, Greed is Good.

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Works until your bank inform DWP that you are sending your pension to Thailand.

A very likely scenario given recent changes to banking regulations.

Unless you are sending it to Revolut or Wise first? That doesn't prove you're living abroad.

Troll post removed.

@Bday Prang this forum is open to everyone, not for you to censor someone based on nationality. It certainly is not for you to tell others to find another forum.

4 hours ago, john smith said:

Actually the frozen pension rule has been in place since 1945.

So those who were unaware of the freeze when they went to Thailand are people who got their pension prior to 1945. Unfreezing them wouldn't to much of a financial burden, would it?

59 minutes ago, Bannoi said:

Could always move to Benidorm. Sunshine cheap beer belly buster breakfasts and pension increases. What's not to like.😇

But Who wants to live in Benidorm ?? Certainly NOT Me !!

Hardly the truth saying the government gives priority to pensioners living in the UK when the scrounging migrants get far more

2 minutes ago, rocketboy2 said:

Recon the uk will start to tax all non residents at 20% on uk income in the coming years.

That tax free allowance of 12,570 will be gone

You just watch, what the greedy sods get up to.

Uk government, Greed is Good.

For comparison, tax free income from state pension (age pension) in Norway, is now at 23.000 pounds a year.

That is also the minimum pension now.

I'm quite shocked at UK's low level of state pensions, and taxes from it.

1 minute ago, thaibreaker said:

For comparison, tax free income from state pension (age pension) in Norway, is now at 23.000 pounds a year.

That is also the minimum pension now.

I'm quite shocked at UK's low level of state pensions, and taxes from it.

Yes uk, one of the worst in Europe for pensions.

I am not a retiree living in Thailand however I fully support uprating pensions for retirees living anywhere in the world.

Pensions are earned during your working life, 36 qualifying years in the UK will entitle you to a full UK pension. It is this qualification method that should determine your final pension entitlement not where you decide to live out your twilight years

4 hours ago, CecilM said:

Makes sense. Since you don't spend the pension money in the UK, why should the gov't support your overseas lifestyle?

50 minutes ago, wil iam not said:

I don't follow you. GBP 12.500 is 0%, up to 50k it is 20%, so up to 37.5k @ 20% = 7.5k.

So your 3k a year means your income is about 15k+12.5k = 27.5k, less the 3k tax = 24.5k = 90k Baht per month.

Wish I had that much to live on.

Wish I had that much to live on.....Me Too !!

27 minutes ago, unblocktheplanet said:

This is also true for Canadians. While Canada Pension Plan into which one made contributions while working remains the same, the Old Age Security Pension deducts 25% for those living abroad.

The workaround is to have one's pension by direct deposit into one's local bank. Perhaps this would work for Brits, too. Don't tell 'em where you live!

It works until you get caught and have to pay back the additional pension you received!

9 minutes ago, dougieboy said:

I am not a retiree living in Thailand however I fully support uprating pensions for retirees living anywhere in the world.

Pensions are earned during your working life, 36 qualifying years in the UK will entitle you to a full UK pension. It is this qualification method that should determine your final pension entitlement not where you decide to live out your twilight years

Makes sense. Since you don't spend the pension money in the UK, why should the gov't support your overseas lifestyle? Overseas Lifestyle ?? On 72 GBP A Week ? Sure as Me Dad always used to say " Now THAT Would be " A GREAT LIFESTYLE " !!!!

I don't have a horse in the race cuz I'm from the US my government pension goes up every year and I get it anywhere in the world except Cuba and North Korea. I have a lot of friends from the UK that this affects quite a bit I think it's a lot of horse pucky. A guy works all his life and then he's told he can't come to Thailand and expect his pension raise to reach him every year totally ridiculous.

I would understand this if they didn't pay it to retirees anywhere in the world but there are places that they do pay it I have friends in the Philippines that get it yearly. I understand some sort of agreement with some countries and the UK so they're allowed to get their pensions but why is there such a problem creating the same agreement with Thailand so those here can enjoy the fruits of their past.

49 minutes ago, Tidal wave said:

And why would you want to do that if you don't want to leave a trail.

Transferring to Wise or Revolut does not prove where you are, or where you're living. As a trail, it's a useless one.

8 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

It works until you get caught and have to pay back the additional pension you received!

There is (or at least was) a Poster on here who used to take part in all of the State Pension threads & highlight that State Pension is a "Non Sanctionable" Benefit & they can't stop it or garnish it to repay any overpayments...

I'm not saying I 100% agree with this (I figure they'd garnish other income) but SP is on the Non Sanctionable Benefits list...

Benefits that cannot be reduced or stopped

The following benefits cannot be reduced or stopped if you commit benefit fraud:

• Attendance Allowance

• Bereavement Support Payment

• Child Benefit

• Christmas Bonus

• Disability Living Allowance

• Graduated Retirement Benefit

• Guardian’s Allowance

• Industrial Injuries Constant Attendance Allowance (where a Disablement Pension is payable)

• Industrial Injuries Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance (where a Disablement Pension is payable)

• Personal Independence Payment

• State Pension

• Social Fund Payments

• War Pension Constant Attendance Allowance

• War Pension Exceptionally Severe Disablement Allowance

• War Pension Mobility Supplement

https://www.gov.uk/benefit-fraud

32 minutes ago, thaibreaker said:

Unless you are sending it to Revolut or Wise first? That doesn't prove you're living abroad.

But if they suspected anything and wanted to, they could ask Wise or Revolut to disclose all transactions made from that account.

Just now, wil iam not said:

But if they suspected anything and wanted to, they could ask Wise or Revolut to disclose all transactions made from that account.

Revolut & Wise both send information to HMRC as part of CRS (Common Reporting Standards)

2 minutes ago, wil iam not said:

But if they suspected anything and wanted to, they could ask Wise or Revolut to disclose all transactions made from that account.

I do not think they have the jurisdiction to do that. I would believe Wise or Revolut are not obligated to give out personal information on that level, as long as it's not money laundering, which this is not.

Or maybe I'm wrong.

2 minutes ago, thaibreaker said:

I do not think they have the jurisdiction to do that. I would believe Wise or Revolut are not obligated to give out personal information on that level, as long as it's not money laundering, which this is not.

Or maybe I'm wrong.

I suppose that if for some reason the DWP SUSPECT money laundering, they could get permission to look in the account. Not sure, and hope not, I am NOT cleaning any dosh.

3 minutes ago, SamSpade said:

Revolut & Wise both send information to HMRC as part of CRS (Common Reporting Standards)

It might depend on which info they are obligated to disclose? Incoming funds maybe, but to where and when those are forwarded? Do you have any link clarifying?

4 hours ago, Spilornis said:

When this subject was last raised a few years back many people discussed the option of relocating to the Phillipines for a year and "refreshing" the pension.

Were someone to do this, would they get all the backdated increases or only the specific percentage for that particular year?

3 hours ago, ftpjtm said:

I ask as an American worried the US may implement a similar policy. I

A restrictive Social Security policy of which I am aware is that the Thai citizen wife of a US citizen would have to physically live in the US for 5 years to qualify for SocSec death benefits.

Other countries, there is no such restriction.

4 minutes ago, wil iam not said:

I suppose that if for some reason the DWP SUSPECT money laundering, they could get permission to look in the account. Not sure, and hope not, I am NOT cleaning any dosh.

Could be. But money laundering is anyway a different matter of suspicion.

Well, let's hope Wise and Revolut are a safe bet for a while longer.

8 minutes ago, thaibreaker said:

It might depend on which info they are obligated to disclose? Incoming funds maybe, but to where and when those are forwarded? Do you have any link clarifying?

CRS Reporting is quite extensive and the data is reported to HMRC alongside any country where you are Tax Resident (Assuming they know this)... https://www.oecd.org/content/dam/oecd/en/topics/policy-issues/tax-transparency-and-international-co-operation/crs-related-faqs.pdf

This article covers how HMRC & DWP share data + the relatively new "Eligibility Verification Measures (EVMs)" whereby DWP can directly ask your bank for information... https://www.which.co.uk/news/article/can-the-dwp-check-your-bank-account-aEEEI4x7Ny3s

NB. One of the "Indicators" that Bank's have been asked to flag is "Appears to be abroad for more than four weeks despite receiving pension credit".

Edit: NB. "Pension Credit" which not everybody gets so people who only get the State Pension should be safe... for now.

4 hours ago, wil iam not said:

The UK Govt is not 'supporting' pensioners, they are paying back what the person has paid into their pot over their working years

According to you.

INCORRECT

❌ A UK pension is not a personal savings pot being returned

The UK system is a “pay-as-you-go” scheme

✅ A government-backed, intergenerational system you qualify into

So it’s not like a private pension or savings account that "pays out" to you upon retirement.

It's a pension not a bloody lottery

BONKERS 👍

4 hours ago, CecilM said:

Makes sense. Since you don't spend the pension money in the UK, why should the gov't support your overseas lifestyle?

And why not??

I get 2 UK pensions in addition to the State OAP, a UK Government Civil Service Pension (index linked on final salary) and a UK Local Government Pension (also index linked). My total NET monthly income is currently around 1,880 US$ (61,000 Thai baht) depending on exchange rates and after paying UK Income Tax and bank charges. I used to live in Thailand but now I live in Cambodia where ALL my pension money is spent providing me with a very comfortable living in retirment. Thank you UK Government!!

Please note I spent 40 years in full employment paying into these pension schemes, so why shouldn't I get some money back to live abroad?

4 hours ago, CecilM said:

4 hours ago, CecilM said:

4 hours ago, CecilM said:

44 minutes ago, Blueman1 said:

But Who wants to live in Benidorm ?? Certainly NOT Me !!

Blackpool is the place to be. 😄

11 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Were someone to do this, would they get all the backdated increases or only the specific percentage for that particular year?

It would be at the current rate and would increase further should you be there in April. Same if you went back to UK. But on returning to Thailand it reverts to your previously frozen rate.