Condo Transactions -- Actual Data

[tangoll]

It's difficult to get any info on actual transactions in the BKK resale condo market, either the resale of contracts for projects under construction, or resale of condo units themselves. So I thought I would start this thread where anyone who has some info on actual transactions of condo units can mention them here. As much info as is known should be supplied, such as project name and stats, condo size in sq metres or number of bedrooms, low-mid-hi floors, total price or price per sq metre, etc.

Baan Klang Krung Siam Patumwan -- Petchburi Road, on old Hollywood Square site, convenient to BTS Ratchedewi station, consisting of two towers (Central Park and Manhattan Towers) of 27 and 28 floors each, scheduled for completion June 2007. The real estate agency set up by developer (Asian Property Development Ltd) told me that last month there were 10 transactions that the agency handled for resale of original purchase contracts; three for 3 bedroom units, and the rest for 2 bedroom units. One was by farang buyer, and the rest Thai buyers, but not Bangkok residents. Thai buyers were from North and South of Bangkok and were buying because their children would be attending universities in the area. Price for mid floor 2 bedroom units are in the baht 6.2 - 6.3 million range. Another owner of a one bedroom unit (about 50 sq metres) told me that he had been offered baht 80,000 per sq metre for his unit, but he is not selling because the convenient location of that project should command higher prices once the project is completed, and people can actually see the units themselves--the view, layout, size, etc.

If anyone else has information or knowledge of actual transactions in the condo market, list them here. No need to mention any confidential info such as seller/buyer's names or the actual unit itself; just enough so that the reader/investor/buyer can get a sense of what's really happening in the market. Actual transactions data are better than the general market trends and summary statistics put out by the research and property firm

[thaigene2]

If anyone else has information or knowledge of actual transactions in the condo market, list them here.....just enough so that the reader/investor/buyer can get a sense of what's really happening in the market. Actual transactions data are better than the general market trends and summary statistics put out by the research and property firm

Good luck...you'll just get loads more crap. Welcome to the wild west - snakeoil territory.

You're right of course..in the West we would expect the realtor/estate agent to rpesent us with selling price stats including dates for every building we were looking at. That's the real test of the market value.

As for all those Thais 'buying' in these new developments, I wonder how many actually plan to make that final 90% installment upon completion? Many want to flip before that time. What happens if they don't find a buyer to flip?? Does the building go into receivership 99% completed?

[bkkandrew]

Here is a bet: Not one verifyable sale/purchase within the last 30-days posted here.

Thats because no felang in their right mind would invest in this mess (Coup/couter-coup/currency witholding controlls/bombs/visa exclusion from staying in the ###### place/ownership doubts over use of nominees...)

[paperwerks]

Maybe this is a little off topic but I am just thrilled with my purchase of 90 datys ago. Bought a 60 square meter 2 bedroom unit on the 8th floor of a well managed 12 unit building off Sukhumvit soi 93 Bangjak close to On nut. My unit is a corner unit with wrap around windows overlooking a very quite single family residentail area. Mostly middle class Thais in this building which is 1/2 empty due to forclosures dating from 1997. Everyone who visits comments on the exceptional view from my two balconies.

I got lucky because I bought it at forclosure auction in Thonburi/Pinklao area. Since I was buying from the government I didn't even need to hire a lawyer.

Cost for this nice 60 sq. meter unit 1.1 million or 18,300 per sq. meter. They are now building a skytrain station at Bangjak 1.5 KMs away. The price was cheap because it is upper sukhumvit and not in the central Business District. If one can move a few KMs away from the CBD and buy in a 10 year old building you can get a discount of 50-70% on a condo purchase. The CBD is rapidly moving this way and in 2-4 years all other things being equal, I expect price appreciation.

[tangoll]

paperwerks, congratulations on your purchase. This is the kind of actual transactions info that this thread is intended to collect and hope could be of use to others, whether buying or selling.

As for bkkandrew and thaigene, well, paperwerks input may not be officially verifiable (except from transfer documents at Lands Department), and also was 90, not 30 days ago, but I think still provides from insight as to how quickly prices drop off further away from CBD/BTS and age of building.

If you don't think anything posted in this thread will be of value to you, no one is asking you to read or post. Data here is anecdotal and incomplete, but still just another source of input for a buying or selling decision. That's all it is. As for your snide comments, most buyers/sellers are probably quite competent to do their own analysis and make their own decisions.

[midas]

If anyone else has information or knowledge of actual transactions in the condo market, list them here.....just enough so that the reader/investor/buyer can get a sense of what's really happening in the market. Actual transactions data are better than the general market trends and summary statistics put out by the research and property firm

Good luck...you'll just get loads more crap. Welcome to the wild west - snakeoil territory.

You're right of course..in the West we would expect the realtor/estate agent to rpesent us with selling price stats including dates for every building we were looking at. That's the real test of the market value.

As for all those Thais 'buying' in these new developments, I wonder how many actually plan to make that final 90% installment upon completion? Many want to flip before that time. What happens if they don't find a buyer to flip?? Does the building go into receivership 99% completed?

Well said thaigene ! This is one of the least transparent property markets I have ever seen - even the way property values do their work

is a farce whereby they conduct mock negotiations on the phone to determine what a property would have sold for...............

is it any wonder so-called property values are all over the place?

[quiksilva]

err - do you know anything about internationally accepted standards of property valuation?

The Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS) list several acceptable approaches:

the main ones are:

Income Approach

Depreciated Replacement Cost Approach

Residual Valuation

and Comparative Valuation

The latter of which is based on comparable evidence, i.e. benchmarking the property against comparable examples of recent transactions. Often finding reliable evidence of this nature is hard to find in this market but its not impossible.

Savvy property investors in advanced markets always appoint a valuer to undertake a formal valuation of the property before buying it to esnure that they are actually getting market price. These valuation reports will often use several different approaches so as to determine their opinion of value. Not all reports are created equal of course, especially here in Thailand but international valuers use RICS Red Book best practices, so they are more reliable than many.

Be careful not to confuse Values and Prices, they are not one and the same.

The internationally accepted definition of Open Market Value is price at which a willing buyer and a willing vendor will complete a transaction, after the property has had reasonable marketing exposure. www.rics.org

As for real stats try the NESDB they list annual condo registrations on their site. The sample you get from this forum can hardly be considered a true reflection of the market.

[tangoll]

Unless you as either buyer or seller (vendor for the English) can find the opposite party willing to meet you on the price for the transaction, knowing the value (however it is arrived at) of the property is rather like taking a leak down the pants of blue serge material -- you feel nice and warm all over and no one will notice.

[midas]

err - do you know anything about internationally accepted standards of property valuation?

The Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS) list several acceptable approaches:

the main ones are:

Income Approach

Depreciated Replacement Cost Approach

Residual Valuation

and Comparative Valuation

The latter of which is based on comparable evidence, i.e. benchmarking the property against comparable examples of recent transactions. Often finding reliable evidence of this nature is hard to find in this market but its not impossible.

Savvy property investors in advanced markets always appoint a valuer to undertake a formal valuation of the property before buying it to esnure that they are actually getting market price. These valuation reports will often use several different approaches so as to determine their opinion of value. Not all reports are created equal of course, especially here in Thailand but international valuers use RICS Red Book best practices, so they are more reliable than many.

Be careful not to confuse Values and Prices, they are not one and the same.

The internationally accepted definition of Open Market Value is price at which a willing buyer and a willing vendor will complete a transaction, after the property has had reasonable marketing exposure. www.rics.org

As for real stats try the NESDB they list annual condo registrations on their site. The sample you get from this forum can hardly be considered a true reflection of the market.

err - your abbreviated module in property valuation methodology is greatly appreciated and I am aware of the different acceptable approaches. But you have missed my point entirely - no matter how sophisticated your valuation methodology is it means nothing

unless you can get access to consistent and totally reliable comparable sales data. In the United States and Australia,property valuers

used to go to the local authority offices to collect such data -now it's probably done online.

Where in Thailand can a property valuer go - other than asking the parties to a transaction ? Knowing that in many cases

such parties in Thailand willingly understate such figures for tax purposes - there doesn't seem to be any reliable

place to get your " raw data " ????? Without that my dear fellow, I don't care if you use Redbook, green book

or whatever color book you choose - property valuations in this country are seriously flawed

[billaaa777]

I invest; in fact I am always invested. I am buying another condo next week and renovating one as we speak. I made a 135% ROI last year. I get so tired of reading of reading comments from people who never take a chance and have no knowledge of what their talking about. By the way, I never owned a condo for over 145 days, that is from the day I bought it, design it, renovated it, to I sold it and received the cash for it.

To the people who asked about valuation of a condo. I utilize the real estate listings and scan the most active real estate agents web sites daily. And you are right, there are so many was to value a possible listing. Before purchasing you really need to know who you are going to be marketing to, what you’re marketing and how you will be marketing.

Some of my biggest ROI came from condos that had been on the market for a considerable period of time that the so called experts had passed over time after time. Good luck and don’t be afraid to take a chance.

[dreamweaver]

I invest; in fact I am always invested. I am buying another condo next week and renovating one as we speak. I made a 135% ROI last year. I get so tired of reading of reading comments from people who never take a chance and have no knowledge of what their talking about. By the way, I never owned a condo for over 145 days, that is from the day I bought it, design it, renovated it, to I sold it and received the cash for it.

To the people who asked about valuation of a condo. I utilize the real estate listings and scan the most active real estate agents web sites daily. And you are right, there are so many was to value a possible listing. Before purchasing you really need to know who you are going to be marketing to, what you’re marketing and how you will be marketing.

Some of my biggest ROI came from condos that had been on the market for a considerable period of time that the so called experts had passed over time after time. Good luck and don’t be afraid to take a chance.

[dreamweaver]

Congrats Paperwerkz! Your 2-bedroom apt is a steal! Anyone have web links to a 1-bedroom apt that are available for sale in Sukhumvit area that's near to BTS station or subway and under 1.8 mil baht?

[midas]

I invest; in fact I am always invested. I am buying another condo next week and renovating one as we speak. I made a 135% ROI last year. I get so tired of reading of reading comments from people who never take a chance and have no knowledge of what their talking about. By the way, I never owned a condo for over 145 days, that is from the day I bought it, design it, renovated it, to I sold it and received the cash for it.

To the people who asked about valuation of a condo. I utilize the real estate listings and scan the most active real estate agents web sites daily. And you are right, there are so many was to value a possible listing. Before purchasing you really need to know who you are going to be marketing to, what you’re marketing and how you will be marketing.

Some of my biggest ROI came from condos that had been on the market for a considerable period of time that the so called experts had passed over time after time. Good luck and don’t be afraid to take a chance.

Well bully for you !! have you considered that those on this forum who evidently are such an annoyance

to you may be just as willing to take " a chance " as you are -but just perhaps not in Thailand

I have made some extremely handsome returns in the Sydney property market which is far easier

to monitor and where at least as a property owner I had the backing of a decent legal system.

In this country your so-called investment activities are more akin to speculating !

Owning property at the end of the day relies very heavily on the integrity of the legal system

and the administration of the courts - in the event of any dispute - and as a farang I would never have

confidence I would always get a fair hearing is my dispute happened to involve a Thai .

Additionally compared to the very effective Strata Title System in Australia ( where the whole

concept are communal ownership of " flats " started ) the condominium laws

in Thailand are poor and simply haven't been thought through properly - as an example

the way that some owners can just simply refuse to pay maintenance and that is the end of the matter !!

No real mechanism to enforce them to do so.

But I really hope the market continues to surge ahead for you and in the event it doesn't

I suppose you could always take up Internet gambling