Britain could still reverse Brexit, former minister Heseltine says

[ilostmypassword]

6 minutes ago, notmyself said:

 

Misinformation from both sides with mainstream media being mostly at the helm of the remains'. Sure some people have changed their minds and have gone from yes to no or from no to yes. Seems to me that many of the people I know who have gone from remain to leave have done so because of the reaction by the EU toward the UK while those changing heart to remain have done so because of the exchange rate drop and or that May is in charge.

 

And, of course, you analysis is entirely uninfluenced by your stand on Brexit and is merely a disinterested distillation of objectively gathered data.

Edited September 6, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[Retiredandhappyhere]

8 hours ago, oilinki said:

As a member of EU, United States of Great Britain, is a well loved member of us.

As a departed member, UK is just a country on our borders.

Turkeys' population 80 million. UK's population 65 million. 

It will be just few year before Turkey becomes a more important player in EU economies, that UK is.

Then there are all the other countries...

Dream on!  The EU does not even want you in.   Mrs Merkel has said so.

[dunroaming]

13 minutes ago, notmyself said:

Misinformation from both sides with mainstream media being mostly at the helm of the remains'. Sure some people have changed their minds and have gone from yes to no or from no to yes.

Yes both sides lied but for the brexit boys it was an easier ride.  I personally don't know anyone who went from remain to leave but I am sure there were some and that is what I am (still) banging on about!  Now the facts are known and the lies shown to be just that, surely people should have the opportunity to vote again with hindsight.

 

 

[ilostmypassword]

6 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Yes both sides lied but for the brexit boys it was an easier ride.  I personally don't know anyone who went from remain to leave but I am sure there were some and that is what I am (still) banging on about!  Now the facts are known and the lies shown to be just that, surely people should have the opportunity to vote again with hindsight.

 

 

At the very least, the citizens of the UK should get to vote on the deal that the government will have negotiated.

Edited September 6, 2017 by ilostmypassword

[citybiker]

There is a lot of truth in what you say.  The thing is in two or three or four (or more) years time when we are actually out of the EU, where will we be?  Before the referendum Cameron laid it on the line as to how the EU would react and that is pretty much what is happening.  They had made that clear to him so no wonder he cut and ran after the vote was to leave.  It left the UK in chaos and all the bluster from May doesn't hide the fact that we are going to take a hiding.

Cameron was a remainer, the EU knew this & hoped and planned the UK would vote in the less risky manner, Cameron was arrogant, complacent a coward and done a runner, old guard has gone.
If the UK takes a hiding, it's 'possible' but unlikely due to poor strategic planning and preparation post Brexit, which is why the temporary transition period has been proposed, PMTM husband works in the city so ideal person as well as the CBI to get tangle credible feedback.
Lastly, the UK in 2-4 years time?

The country is currently the 5th strongest world economy, 42yr low unemployment and both the private and public sector have sufficient time, capability and resources to push through the rough times and ride through the storm to prosper, of course they'll be obstacles along the way which is inevitable however I'm a natural pessimistic person but doom & gloom apocalypse is not the way the UK is heading.

(In the meantime I've our house in Ratchaburi to fix up ;-) )


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[mikecha]

8 hours ago, oilinki said:

As a member of EU, United States of Great Britain, is a well loved member of us.

As a departed member, UK is just a country on our borders.

Turkeys' population 80 million. UK's population 65 million. 

It will be just few year before Turkey becomes a more important player in EU economies, that UK is.

Then there are all the other countries...

Turkey will never be a eu member Germany will see to that

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, mikecha said:

Turkey will never be a eu member Germany will see to that

I don't think it's just Germany at this point. For at least a few reasons Turkey no longer has a chance.

[OnTheRun]

9 hours ago, oilinki said:

I think our EU is pretty happy for UK leaving our union. 

 

UK used to be the little brother of USA, which hindered the development of the EU.

 

UK also used to be the balancing power against Germany. 

Now we'll see what is the true potential of Europe. 

 

Not as happy as the majority of Brits I can assure you. We view it as getting our country back and being able to resume trading with our historical trading partners on our terms. Not the terms of some unelected self serving eurocrat. Of course there will be some casulities, Neil 'Euromillions' Kinnock and his wife will lose their €750k per anum jolly should the EU decide to punt Brit employees, my heart bleeds for them.

[nontabury]

5 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Wrong. The UK can legally rescind the Article 50 notice and remain. May not be to everyone else's liking, but that's how it is. Certain powerful and influential figures in the EU have already stated that they'd be very happy of that happened.

 

It is currently still and EU state btw.

Sure, many powerful and influential Europeans would like us to remain in the E.U. along with our CONTRIBUTIONS. However more importantly the British people have decided otherwise.  

[adammike]

48 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

I don't think it's just Germany at this point. For at least a few reasons Turkey no longer has a chance.

It was never close to becoming a member now they can forget it.

[dunroaming]

11 minutes ago, citybiker said:

The country is currently the 5th strongest world economy, 42yr low unemployment and both the private and public sector have sufficient time, capability and resources to push through the rough times and ride through the storm to prosper,

They are the 5th strongest economy but that is as a member of the EU.  In some years time we will be out and the trade deals we do with the EU (at the moment 40% of our trade) will determine how strong our economy then is.  Right now nobody knows but I doubt burning bridges is the best way forward.

[adammike]

2 minutes ago, nontabury said:

Sure, many powerful and influential Europeans would like us to remain in the E.U. along with our CONTRIBUTIONS. However more importantly the British people have decided otherwise.  

38% of the electorate voted to leave,a minority of the British people voted to leave so they won on the first past the post system, hardly the will of the people.hold a referendum today you will get one result tomorrow another.Its not over yet.

[dunroaming]

24 minutes ago, OnTheRun said:

Not as happy as the majority of Brits I can assure you. We view it as getting our country back and being able to resume trading with our historical trading partners on our terms.

I wouldn't be so sure it is the majority now.  many have realised the reality of leaving and are very worried.  Our traditional trading partners?  You mean from over forty years ago.  The world is a very different place now my friend and Britain has lost almost all of it's manufacturing that we were then famous for.

[citybiker]

They are the 5th strongest economy but that is as a member of the EU.  In some years time we will be out and the trade deals we do with the EU (at the moment 40% of our trade) will determine how strong our economy then is.  Right now nobody knows but I doubt burning bridges is the best way forward.

I think it's rather premature to phrase it as 'burning bridges' however the UK has the unrestrictive opportunity to trade Globally, it's been well documented the rest of the world are keen to trade with the UK.

Just to clarify, the UK will be able to draft its own blueprint of how it wishes to trade globally, another example which you probably already know is EFTA which these 4 Nordic regions pay a nominal sum to the EU to trade but are not EU members, however I strongly suspect it will initially be on WTO terms.


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[terryw]

Watching Heseltine on TV today made me think that he is senile and should be locked up in an old people's home. 

[wellred]

It's going to happen. It's just too much of a mess to comprehend. We will 'exit' but the deal will be such that we are still in only it takes a different name. Relax folks we are not going out completely.

[dunroaming]

18 minutes ago, citybiker said:

Just to clarify, the UK will be able to draft its own blueprint of how it wishes to trade globally, another example which you probably already know is EFTA which these 4 Nordic regions pay a nominal sum to the EU to trade but are not EU members, however I strongly suspect it will initially be on WTO terms.

I would favour the Norwegian model and accept paying into the EU and having to abide by EU rules without having a seat at the table but I suspect many wouldn't especially as there has to be free movement of people.  I am not sure of the countries "keen" to do business with the UK.  most of them want us to import from them.  The USA being a prime example.  I think you have to really analyse the trading partners of the future

[Dene16]

Prior to brexit the UK was a ticking time bomb waiting to explode. We could of chosen to remain and all been better off, for the short term at least

Manufacturing has and will continue to decline,regardless (10% + a year i read 3 years ago),  so where would that leave us in 10 years with 30% of births arising from couples of non UK nationalities.

The population was/is expanding at a rate not sustainable,  not helped by the constant increase of EU migrants into the UK (200,000 a year and expanding)Non EU another 200,000

with manufacturing dwindling and migrants increasing how were we going to support  the huge number of welfare payments that was simply going to get bigger and bigger and bigger

Yes, we may never fully recover but better this than the catastrophic recession we were heading for, which no one looks to, as its too far in the future. 

Another vote would probably reverse the result because most people cannot see the long term view

I blame Cameron for negotiating a deal that wasn't worth the paper it was printed on

 

[dunroaming]

5 minutes ago, wellred said:

It's going to happen. It's just too much of a mess to comprehend. We will 'exit' but the deal will be such that we are still in only it takes a different name. Relax folks we are not going out completely.

It's all about the politics and the useless politicians trying to stagger through the process.  They want to save their skins and we are just on the sidelines.  I hope you are right but who out of this shower are capable of putting together a workable deal?

[chang50]

10 hours ago, CantSpell said:

Just make another referendum: don't give us another "the people voice" excuse, everybody is entitled to change it's mind and 2 years have gone already...

I also had the feeling that many lies were fed to UK citizen before the first referendum and most of the country was surprised by the result....

 

Would love the see the result of a second one....

Don't you mean third referendum (1975)?

[citybiker]

Prior to brexit the UK was a ticking time bomb waiting to explode. We could of chosen to remain and all been better off, for the short term at least
Manufacturing has and will continue to decline,regardless (10% + a year i read 3 years ago),  so where would that leave us in 10 years with 30% of births arising from couples of non UK nationalities.
The population was/is expanding at a rate not sustainable,  not helped by the constant increase of EU migrants into the UK (200,000 a year and expanding)Non EU another 200,000
with manufacturing dwindling and migrants increasing how were we going to support  the huge number of welfare payments that was simply going to get bigger and bigger and bigger
Yes, we may never fully recover but better this than the catastrophic recession we were heading for, which no one looks to, as its too far in the future. 
Another vote would probably reverse the result because most people cannot see the long term view
I blame Cameron for negotiating a deal that wasn't worth the paper it was printed on
 

Manufacturing decline?
Key points:
Expectations for domestic order growth (+16%) are the most upbeat since April 2015 (+18%), whereas expected growth in export orders (+28%) is the highest in four decades (+37%)
Expectations for output growth (+28%) are the highest since April 2014
Unit costs growth (+5%) are expected to moderate further over the next quarter and domestic price inflation (+9%) is anticipated to be more subdued
Investment in training and retraining in the year ahead is expected to increase at the strongest pace (+28%) since January 2015.
http://www.cbi.org.uk/news/manufacturers-report-strong-output-growth/

Cameron's attempt was simply going through the diplomatic process & nothing more, as for catastrophic recession?

Project fear attempted that & blatantly failed, uncharted waters are always challenging, it's adapting & overcoming these challenges is the difference between the strong & weak.


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[notmyself]

2 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Yes both sides lied but for the brexit boys it was an easier ride.  I personally don't know anyone who went from remain to leave but I am sure there were some and that is what I am (still) banging on about!  Now the facts are known and the lies shown to be just that, surely people should have the opportunity to vote again with hindsight.

 

 

 

Harder ride with the establishment and mainstream media opposite and the said mainstream media is not going to be willing to only present the facts as that would be against their business model, though to be fair such behaviour is found all over the world.

 

I'd be happy to see another general election rather than another in-out vote though another in-out vote could be monetarily beneficial to the UK as they would do what they did in Ireland, Poland and the Czech republic and throw money at us hand over fist. Would that be presented by the mainstream media as a bribe or as just the goodwill of our continental brothers and sisters? 

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, terryw said:

Watching Heseltine on TV today made me think that he is senile and should be locked up in an old people's home. 

Hopefully not your one.

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, dunroaming said:

I would favour the Norwegian model and accept paying into the EU and having to abide by EU rules without having a seat at the table but I suspect many wouldn't especially as there has to be free movement of people.  I am not sure of the countries "keen" to do business with the UK.  most of them want us to import from them.  The USA being a prime example.  I think you have to really analyse the trading partners of the future

 

Sure they'll want to sell to us. And many of their goods are bound to be cheaper than the overpriced stuff we're buying from the EU. They'll also be buying from us, as per trade agreements negotiated, which will be set up quickly unlike the EU's red tape-infested ones. The idea being propagated that trade deals outside the EU are going to be toxic is a huge red herring which emanates from Project Fear.

[Dene16]

1 hour ago, citybiker said:

Manufacturing decline?

Thank you for enlightening me on this point The decline in manufacturing reversed in 2011 and has increase by 5% (not exactly mind blowing) however growth it states is very negligible.

i seem to read this statement  whenever i go  which somewhat detracts from the report and figures you present and figures can always be manipulated

What i do see is expectations mentioned considerably 

Also the decreasing value of the pound is going to have a significant affect upon our exports and output as they will ultimately become cheaper.

You are obviously a stout believer in leaving the EU, curiously why did you think we were better off out

Since 45% of our trade is with the EU do you really believe we can survive without them or broker a deal that will not entail freedom of movement.

Making  what i would call minor trade agreements with  countries outside of the EU is not really going to have a big impact on our economy and help us (we already trade with USA and China i believe)

I wish i had your faith

 

[nausea]

The politicians, particularly the Tory ones, are going to be in a peculiar position, if Heseltine is right, and they are committed to Brexit on the basis of an irreversible democratic mandate when it's clear the bulk of the people have turned against it. Heseltine is just speculating of course, and the position will grow clearer as we get nearer and nearer to the exit date, but I wouldn't say the scenario is an improbable one, given that a lot of people went into this wearing rosy-tinted spectacles regarding promises about the effects on the NHS, immigration, and financial savings. Of course, the hard-core sovereignty issue remains valid whatever, but I have my doubts about how much weight this will have when people are feeling the pain.

[baansgr]

Discussion on trade is only a bi product of the decision to leave.

We all know the main reason the electirate voted in favour is because of the disaterous effects free movement has had on communuties and the econony.

Soaring house prices and rents, its now common for many people to have 35 year repayment only mortgages and having to save for a deposit till their mid 30s.

Not being able to get Drs appointments for weeks due to an ever increasing populaion.

Drving kids 5 or more miles to school as no availble places again due to such a large increase in the population.

Quality of life and everyday matters is what counts and what determines how people vote. These things effect people daily and its a shame that these people are branded uneducated numpties or worse, racists and facists.

With no light at the end of the tunnel what would you expect.

The European model was and is still a fantastic idea just not in its present form.

[Laughing Gravy]

18 hours ago, oilinki said:

Clowns?

 

Are we clowns, simply because we think UK is a lost cause? 

I said we don't even want you to be with us, in the current form you present yourself. 

For clarification of my reference to clowns is that of peers and MP's who have been told by the people in the referendum that we want to leave the EU. For daring to stop or even reverse it, I am being polite by calling them clowns.

[Laughing Gravy]

17 hours ago, pitrevie said:

Heseltine was stating the position correctly. No government can dictate to a successor government and so there is nothing stopping a future government reversing the decision and taking us back into Europe with our without a referendum. All that needs to be done is put the question at a general election.

In fact no less a person than David Davis the Brexit secretary stated that if a country cannot change its mind then it is no longer a democracy.

By the way Brexit far from being a monumental win was a narrow win which means for now we are leaving the EU.

In case  you forgot the general election happened a few months ago and it was the main focus of the election.. As the Lib Dems were the only party opposing Brexit, why didn't they get more MP's.?  Why can't you accept the democratic vote of the people. Many have but some posters here, continually bang on about another referendum, "nobody knew what they were voting for", "people are undereducated", blah, blah.

 

It would also seem that some posters want the UK to go into financial meltdown,' to say' We told you so and lets rejoin the EU. Very unpatriotic IMHO

 

 

[bert bloggs]

Just get used to it . 

 

WE LEFT, END OF .