Britain's May calls on lawmakers to back bill, move closer to Brexit

[webfact]

Britain's May calls on lawmakers to back bill, move closer to Brexit

 

FILE PHOTO: Britain's Prime Minister Theresa May leaves 10 Downing Street in London, September 6, 2017. REUTERS/Toby Melville/File Photo

 

LONDON (Reuters) - British Prime Minister Theresa May called on parliament to support legislation to sever political, financial and legal ties with the European Union, a step towards Brexit the opposition says it will challenge.

 

The repeal bill, or EU withdrawal bill, is central to the government's plan to exit the bloc in 2019, untangling Britain from more than 40 years of EU lawmaking and repealing the treaty that first made Britain a member in 1972.

 

On Thursday, parliament will start debating the "main principles" of the bill, which seeks largely to copy and paste EU law into British legislation. Lawmakers will vote on Monday on whether the bill can move on to the next part of its long legislative journey, when it could be amended.

 

Its safe passage through parliament is especially important for a government that has been criticised in Brussels over its Brexit strategy and after a series of leaks, one of a letter to companies asking them to support Britain's plans.

 

"The repeal bill helps deliver the outcome the British people voted for by ending the role of the EU in UK law, but it's also the single most important step we can take to prevent a cliff-edge for people and businesses, because it provides legal certainty," May said in a statement.

 

"We've made time for proper parliamentary scrutiny of Brexit legislation, and I look forward to the contributions of MPs (lawmakers) from across the House (of Commons). But that contribution should fit with our shared aim: to help get the best Brexit for Britain."

 

Her Brexit minister, David Davis, also urged lawmakers to speak out if they felt that any rights were not carried forward into British law by the bill, a challenge to the main opposition Labour Party which has said it cannot support the legislation without it being amended to better protect workers' rights.

 

Monday's vote will be a test of May's deal with a small Northern Irish Party to shore up the majority she lost in an election she did not have to call in June. Labour would need to convince EU supporters in May's Conservatives to side with them to vote down the bill.

 

Some more vocal pro-EU lawmakers in the Conservative Party have now said they will vote with the government after asking for reassurance that parliament will be able to scrutinise any changes to the law.

 

"We are not rejecting EU law, but embracing the work done between member states in over forty years of membership and using that solid foundation to build on in the future, once we return to being masters of our own laws," Davis said.

 

"I hope everyone in this House recognises this bill's essential nature – it is the foundation upon which we will legislate for years to come – and I look forward to working with the whole House to deliver the bill," he said in a statement.

 

But Chris Leslie, a pro-EU campaigner and Labour lawmaker, questioned whether parliament could trust May and Davis.

 

"(The bill) will give the executive unparalleled powers to change laws that affect the lives and rights of the British people by the stroke of a ministerial pen," he said.

 

"For Theresa May and David Davis to ask us to just trust them isn't good enough. I urge MPs from all parties to vote down this shambles of a bill."

 

(Reporting by Elizabeth Piper)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-09-07

[smedly]

33 minutes ago, webfact said:

Chris Leslie, a pro-EU campaigner and Labour lawmaker, questioned whether parliament could trust May and Davis.

 

"(The bill) will give the executive unparalleled powers to change laws that affect the lives and rights of the British people by the stroke of a ministerial pen," he said.

 

"For Theresa May and David Davis to ask us to just trust them isn't good enough. I urge MPs from all parties to vote down this shambles of a bill."

oh dear, so what would your alternative be lol, how did this idiot get a seat in parliament that gives "him" a ministerial pen, would he rather a foreign entity remained in control of UK sovereignty, the mind boggles 

 

These last few months have really opened my eyes to the disgraceful functioning of UK politics, we have a labour party and others that just disagrees with everything whether right or wrong because it is not theirs - it is almost childlike, these are difficult challenges for the UK - how about showing some solidarity for the sake of the country, the EU doesn't need solidarity because there is no democracy - Brussels/Germany dictates and they all have to  follow, the only way to challenge is through the European Court

Edited September 6, 2017 by smedly

[Orac]

oh dear, so what would your alternative be lol, how did this idiot get a seat in parliament that gives "him" a ministerial pen, would he rather a foreign entity remained in control of UK sovereignty, the mind boggles 
 
These last few months have really opened my eyes to the disgraceful functioning of UK politics, we have a labour party and others that just disagrees with everything whether right or wrong because it is not theirs - it is almost childlike, these are difficult challenges for the UK - how about showing some solidarity for the sake of the country, the EU doesn't need solidarity because there is no democracy - Brussels/Germany dictates and they all have to  follow, the only way to challenge is through the European Court

As i understand it his 'alternative' is that Britain remains as it always has with parliament being sovereign thus having the right to approve any laws proposed by the executive.

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, smedly said:

oh dear, so what would your alternative be lol, how did this idiot get a seat in parliament that gives "him" a ministerial pen, would he rather a foreign entity remained in control of UK sovereignty, the mind boggles 

 

These last few months have really opened my eyes to the disgraceful functioning of UK politics, we have a labour party and others that just disagrees with everything whether right or wrong because it is not theirs - it is almost childlike, these are difficult challenges for the UK - how about showing some solidarity for the sake of the country, the EU doesn't need solidarity because there is no democracy - Brussels/Germany dictates and they all have to  follow, the only way to challenge is through the European Court

 

May tried very very hard, if you remember, to use the Royal Prerogative in an inappropriate way to by-pass parliament and give her Executive unprecedented, and unnecessary powers. She took it all the way to the Supreme Court who thankfully had the courage to rule in favor of our democratic constitution and preserve the sovereignty of parliament.

 

And no, I wouldn't trust May and Davis either; anymore than any other politician and probably less than most on current performance.

 

 

[Orac]

 
May tried very very hard, if you remember, to use the Royal Prerogative in an inappropriate way to by-pass parliament and give her Executive unprecedented, and unnecessary powers. She took it all the way to the Supreme Court who thankfully had the courage to rule in favor of our democratic constitution and preserve the sovereignty of parliament.
 
And no, I wouldn't trust May and Davis either; anymore than any other politician and probably less than most on current performance.
 
 

It is not just how may May and Davis could use this law that needs to be taken into account. The litmus test for those supporting it must also be would they accept Jeremy Corbyn inheriting this law and having the ability to basically rewrite any EU law, and they cover just about everything, as he saw fit without the scrutiny of parliament.

The sovereignty argument doesn't hold water when comparing it to the EU since recent events have clearly demonstrated that though some sovereignty was delegated to the EU by the UK parliament it was always within the powers of parliament to repatriate those powers by the (legally) simple process of triggering art 50. Should parliament delegate the powers to make and enact law to the executive as the Repeal Bill in its proposed current form seems to suggest then it is not as simple to revoke since the government which has assumed those powers sets the legislative agenda and doesn't have to allow a vote to rescind it.


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[smedly]

4 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

May tried very very hard, if you remember, to use the Royal Prerogative in an inappropriate way to by-pass parliament and give her Executive unprecedented, and unnecessary powers. She took it all the way to the Supreme Court who thankfully had the courage to rule in favor of our democratic constitution and preserve the sovereignty of parliament.

 

And no, I wouldn't trust May and Davis either; anymore than any other politician and probably less than most on current performance.

 

 

it is the "current" remit of the elected government to enact law - leaving the EU changes nothing except the scope and range that needs to be covered. The job of the elected government doesn't change from what it is now.

[dunroaming]

You still have the same old problem.  May is not capable of negotiating an acceptable deal and nor is Davis. But who is capable of pulling it off?  The EU are playing hard ball as expected but the UK has no balls, either hard or soft or so it seems.

9 hours ago, smedly said:

These last few months have really opened my eyes to the disgraceful functioning of UK politics, we have a labour party and others that just disagrees with everything whether right or wrong because it is not theirs - it is almost childlike, these are difficult challenges for the UK - how about showing some solidarity for the sake of the country,

Can't show solidarity where there are huge splits in what people believe is the right way forward.  The referendum showed almost a fifty fifty split and now with reality kicking in the divisions are wider than ever.  You may feel this is a complete shambles and you would be right!  

 

Brexit isn't going to deliver what the vast majority of the leavers voted for but still they want it to happen.  Staggering!

[smedly]

5 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

You still have the same old problem.  May is not capable of negotiating an acceptable deal and nor is Davis. But who is capable of pulling it off?  The EU are playing hard ball as expected but the UK has no balls, either hard or soft or so it seems.

The EU are not playing hard ball, they are refusing to negotiate anything, they are making ridiculous demands then saying over to you and blaming the UK for lack of progress, that is not a negotiation, in fact there is no solid evidence that they have demanded anything either, just rumours and lack of progress and refusing to recognise anything put forward by the UK, like I have said all along - I believe their agenda is to force the UK to walk away and hope that it is enough to cause a political upset in the UK big enough to stop brexit, it won't work and once that is seen only then will talks actually take place in earnest. TM made that very clear from the onset that the UK was willing to walk if the EU refused to negotiate and that is clearly what is going on.  

[rockingrobin]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

it is the "current" remit of the elected government to enact law - leaving the EU changes nothing except the scope and range that needs to be covered. The job of the elected government doesn't change from what it is now.

It is the elected parliament who has the remit to enact law.

 

[dunroaming]

20 minutes ago, smedly said:

The EU are not playing hard ball, they are refusing to negotiate anything, they are making ridiculous demands then saying over to you and blaming the UK for lack of progress, that is not a negotiation, in fact there is no solid evidence that they have demanded anything either, just rumours and lack of progress and refusing to recognise anything put forward by the UK, like I have said all along - I believe their agenda is to force the UK to walk away and hope that it is enough to cause a political upset in the UK big enough to stop brexit, it won't work and once that is seen only then will talks actually take place in earnest. TM made that very clear from the onset that the UK was willing to walk if the EU refused to negotiate and that is clearly what is going on.  

I understand your position and your views are held by many.  The EU have made it very clear (over and over) that a divorce figure, clarity on the Northern Irish border and the citizenship issues must be agreed before talks on trade can be started.  That is not refusing to negotiate anything.  Davis wants the trade talks at the same time.  If they cannot get past the first post then what hope is there.  It seems reasonable enough to me to agree on those points first as that will set the level for what trade deals both sides can negotiate.  Davis says they are still looking at the figures for the divorce settlement and the EU are waiting for their proposals.

[Khun Han]

41 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

It is the elected parliament who has the remit to enact law.

 

 

And as long as the current coalition has functionality, that means the government enacts laws, as smedly said.

[Khun Han]

21 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

I understand your position and your views are held by many.  The EU have made it very clear (over and over) that a divorce figure, clarity on the Northern Irish border and the citizenship issues must be agreed before talks on trade can be started.  That is not refusing to negotiate anything.  Davis wants the trade talks at the same time.  If they cannot get past the first post then what hope is there.  It seems reasonable enough to me to agree on those points first as that will set the level for what trade deals both sides can negotiate.  Davis says they are still looking at the figures for the divorce settlement and the EU are waiting for their proposals.

 

The Irish border issue would be better tied to trade negotiations. The two issues are closely tied anyway.

[Grouse]

10 hours ago, smedly said:

oh dear, so what would your alternative be lol, how did this idiot get a seat in parliament that gives "him" a ministerial pen, would he rather a foreign entity remained in control of UK sovereignty, the mind boggles 

 

These last few months have really opened my eyes to the disgraceful functioning of UK politics, we have a labour party and others that just disagrees with everything whether right or wrong because it is not theirs - it is almost childlike, these are difficult challenges for the UK - how about showing some solidarity for the sake of the country, the EU doesn't need solidarity because there is no democracy - Brussels/Germany dictates and they all have to  follow, the only way to challenge is through the European Court

Utter tosh

 

The Con Party runs rings around you and you don't even notice!

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

it is the "current" remit of the elected government to enact law - leaving the EU changes nothing except the scope and range that needs to be covered. The job of the elected government doesn't change from what it is now.

You have a serious misunderstanding, sorry to say.

[rockingrobin]

13 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

And as long as the current coalition has functionality, that means the government enacts laws, as smedly said.

No it does not

[Grouse]

21 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

And as long as the current coalition has functionality, that means the government enacts laws, as smedly said.

It's not a coalition. It is a confidence and supply agreement which cost 1 billion to buy.

 

It will only take 7 Cons to cross the floor. Not impossible when you consider the Scottish Cons 

Edited September 7, 2017 by Grouse

[rockingrobin]

26 minutes ago, Grouse said:

It's not a coalition. It is a confidence and supply agreement which cost 1 billion to buy.

 

It will only take 7 Cons to cross the floor. Not impossible when you consider the Scottish Cons 

Not all Conservative MPs are members of the government, they belong to the same party as the current government.

There are approx 130 MPs who can be classified as being in the government , from cabinet ministers, departmental ministers , and whips, every other MP is just a member of parliament.

 

[dunroaming]

Gentlemen, one thing is for sure.  The debates will continue and the tone in Parliament will get nastier as everyone jockeys for position.  Deals will be done behind closed doors and the public will be fed bits as we go along.  At the end of all of this there will a conclusion and after that (eventually) the position will become clearer though I suspect not clear enough.

 

Who knows who will be PM at that point?

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, rockingrobin said:

No it does not

 

You're splitting hairs.

[rockingrobin]

5 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

You're splitting hairs.

On the contrary I am not spitting hairs

The government is responsible for bringing new laws into force after being passed by parliament

[Khun Han]

2 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

On the contrary I am not spitting hairs

The government is responsible for bringing new laws into force after being passed by parliament

 

In an average parliamentary term, what percentage of major laws passed are put forward by the government, compared to the opposition?

[rockingrobin]

3 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

In an average parliamentary term, what percentage of major laws passed are put forward by the government, compared to the opposition?

You are confusing a Bill and Act of Parliament

[Khun Han]

8 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

You are confusing a Bill and Act of Parliament

 

No I'm not, you're trying to be tricky. What percentage of major bills by the government are passed into law in relation to ones by the opposition?

[smedly]

6 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

You are confusing a Bill and Act of Parliament

correct, and so are the people raising concerns or rather as they put it - possible concerns without any details of what those actual concerns are - it really is all complete nonsense and as I stated earlier it is demonstrating a childish need to just "not agree"

 

The whole thing is fundamentally flawed and giving Brussels exactly what they are aiming for.

 

It really is time all of the UK got behind this and stop this stupidity - all it is doing is giving the EU a stronger hand - Barnier and Junker are laughing at the intended shambles they are fueling, it is exactly what they want. 

[Grouse]

21 minutes ago, smedly said:

It really is time all of the UK got behind this and stop this stupidity -

Exactly. Stop now. Enough damage already!

[smedly]

22 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Exactly. Stop now. Enough damage already!

correct, and so are the people raising concerns or rather as they put it - possible concerns without any details of what those actual concerns are - it really is all complete nonsense and as I stated earlier it is demonstrating a childish need to just "not agree"

 

The whole thing is fundamentally flawed and giving Brussels exactly what they are aiming for.

 

It really is time all of the UK got behind this and stop this stupidity - all it is doing is giving the EU a stronger hand - Barnier and Junker are laughing at the intended shambles they are fueling, it is exactly what they want. 

[Khun Han]

3 minutes ago, smedly said:

correct, and so are the people raising concerns or rather as they put it - possible concerns without any details of what those actual concerns are - it really is all complete nonsense and as I stated earlier it is demonstrating a childish need to just "not agree"

 

The whole thing is fundamentally flawed and giving Brussels exactly what they are aiming for.

 

It really is time all of the UK got behind this and stop this stupidity - all it is doing is giving the EU a stronger hand - Barnier and Junker are laughing at the intended shambles they are fueling, it is exactly what they want. 

 

No it's not correct smedly, it's just Robin trying to be a smartypants. Note that he hasn't answered my question, and, if he eventually does, it will be a deflection.

 

Anyway, as if we didn't already know, you are absolutely correct about the EU not being interested in serious brexit discussions, instead concentrating on disrupting and dividing the UK:

 

http://news.sky.com/story/brexit-juncker-questioned-david-davis-commitment-to-negotiations-11024115

 

It appears that the war criminal and traitor Blair has been a busy man.

[Grouse]

Please give me a quantitative analysis not a qualitative analysis. I want a stoichiometric view of the benefits likely to accrue from this disaster