The trials and tribulations of an organised guy.

[Sailor42]

Please don't take this as any sort of criticism of Thailand, its beautiful people, or its bureaucratic sytems and regulations. It is solely a record of how ''western'' training, thinking and expectations can sometimes lead to frustration closely followed by self-flagellation and excessive consumption of Johnny Walker.

 

I have had the pleasure and privilege of being married to a wonderful Thai lady for two years, and have so far successfully negotiated the cultural and other difficulties of marrying as a farang into an Issan/Thai family. So far, so good. We spend our time divided between Australia and Thailand, currently awaiting a residence permit (it has another name) for my wife to reside in Australia, so she visits for three months on Visit Visas, then I come to Thailand on 30 day entries stamped each time at BKK. As I am shortly retiring (I am after all an Aged Mariner, 75 years young), we plan to spend more time in Thailand, and so I obtained a Non-O Multi entry visa as the first step towards a Marriage Visa. And thus started the latest series of misunderstandings, cock-ups, and what in my past endeavours would be known as FUBAR's (I leave the translation to those of you who served!).

 

In the Royal Navy, I was taught that '' five minutes early is just on time'', and further that ''professional planning prevents piss-poor performance''. I have taken these thoughts to heart for the last 58 years.

 

Last Saturday, we arrived at BKK, and smoothly passed through Immigration (old fart, express line) and Customs, and I advised my Beloved that we would leave our hotel at 0800 on Monday to visit Australian Embassy at 0830 to query when her residence permit (another name) would be approved - had been told these were assessed by Embassy rather than VFS in Sukhumvit. Beautiful wife ready to leave hotel at 0930 (!!!), so off we go, to discover Embassy moved some weeks ago to new site, taxi paid and left us at new Embassy, only to learn that all applications now assessed at VFS Sukhumvit. Walked for miles, hired replacement taxi to VFS Sukhumvit. Despite having every document and reference number for the application, after waiting two hours discovered the only one they can apparently use to track progress is the fee payment receipt number, which of course is locked in our safe in Korat. At this point, I accepted the Gods were against us, and we smiled politely and caught the 1500 bus to Korat, ready to fight another day.

 

On Tuesday morning, we drove to the police station in Korat to deliver a TM30 form to confirm my ''alien'' residence. I thought it needed to go to Immigration office, but bowed to my wife's superior knowledge. The police were somewhat mystified, but extremely helpful, and smothered my TM30 with stamps and signatures, and assured me that Manchester will win the Cup next year. As a rugby supporter, I am far more concerned about The All Blacks, but appreciated the advice. We then drove to the bank where we keep a joint account, and asked them to open an acount in my name only to make a deposit of Bht 400,000 to mature nicely and support my Marriage Visa application in due course. The officer said that first we need to get my TM30 certified by the Immigration office in Chok Chai (!), about 25 kms from Korat, and the police stamp is not enough. We set off to Chok Chai without me making any comment to my Beloved, only to discover that that Immigration office had also moved just four weeks ago. It took one hour to find the new one, by which time my wife had managed to work out how all this was my fault and was informing me of all my failings at the volume only reachable by furious Issan girls! Anyway, I have to say the Immigration team were supremely efficient (no-one else had managed to find the new office either, me-thinks!),  and   soon I was back home mentally battered and bruised, but in command of a large Johnny Walker. I also bought a new air-conditioner, smart TV, vacuum cleaner, gas cooktop, gold ear-rings and necklace. And new Michelin tyres for the car! And smiled.

 

Wednesday dawned bright and sunny, as you all may know. The bank said the rules had changed, and they now needed me to appear on my wife's house book as resident before they open an account for me. The fact that they have a joint account for me has no relevance. They could accept an affidavit witnessed by an officer from the Australian Embassy in Bangkok ( 270 kms away ) stating that I am who I say I am. I explain that the affidavit is just me stating something, and the officer is not confirming or guaranteeing that, just validating my signature. No cigar. So off we go to the Amphur, who say that with all the immigration and police stamps, no problem modifying the house ''book'', but it must take 15 days to confirm the change. I leave to Aus  in 13 days. I smiled - just!!

 

Thank God and all the Angels for Johnny Walker, and roll on December, when I climb on the same horse again, but I little bit wiser and much more battered!! But I still love Thailand, and next year the Bledisloe Cup belongs to us!! Go the Wallabies!!!

 

 

 

 

[cornishcarlos]

Thank you... That was the best read I've had on TVF for a long time...

 

I applaud your resilience young man :)

[RoyDee]

Undoubtedly the cops meant Manchester UNITED will be champs, not that 'other' shower 

I raise a glass to your stamina, old salt 

[FritsSikkink]

Sorry to say but you missed out on the ''professional planning prevents piss-poor performance'' :

to discover Embassy moved some weeks ago to new site,    

only to learn that all applications now assessed at VFS Sukhumvit.

discovered the only one they can apparently use to track progress is the fee payment receipt number

 

Good thing there is Johnny to help out though

 

[wgdanson]

54 minutes ago, RoyDee said:

Undoubtedly the cops meant Manchester UNITED will be champs, not that 'other' shower 

I raise a glass to your stamina, old salt 

As said in many many posts, the Police know f..k all. City will win!

 

[wgdanson]

Good luck to you Sailor, but do you REALLY need all this bull at 75 years old. And enjoy the ride you are being taken for.

[asiaexpat]

Fear not your return. I recommend you continue the process and let someone in Korat pick up your House Registration or let the Ampour just hold it until you return. It will be a separate book with a yellow cover since you are not Thai. The bank will undoubtedly accept that as proof of residence in lieu of the embassy letter. The Yellow Tabien Baan as it is called along with your passport should be all you need to open an account in your name only (funds also of course.) The Yellow Tabien Baan will be handy anytime you need proof of residence such as for driver license, extension of stay based on marriage to a Thai, Non-Thai ID card, etc. Be sure you have registered your marriage at the Ampour and have the original certificate as well as registry form (computer generated document.) Enjoyed your story and hope all goes easier next visit to Korat.

[glegolo]

I think this was the worst performance I have ever read here on ThaiVISA..  Suggest that you organize and plan like when you served in younger days... Half of all this crap you experienced was your own fault, completely your own fault..

 

Glegolo

[BritTim]

A good sense of humor is essential when dealing with Thai bureaucracy. Luckily, it seems you have it, and successfully kept your cool: number one rule, as it keeps the officials on your side for next time. Hopefully, it will get easier.

[Sailor42]

5 hours ago, asiaexpat said:

Fear not your return. I recommend you continue the process and let someone in Korat pick up your House Registration or let the Ampour just hold it until you return. It will be a separate book with a yellow cover since you are not Thai. The bank will undoubtedly accept that as proof of residence in lieu of the embassy letter. The Yellow Tabien Baan as it is called along with your passport should be all you need to open an account in your name only (funds also of course.) The Yellow Tabien Baan will be handy anytime you need proof of residence such as for driver license, extension of stay based on marriage to a Thai, Non-Thai ID card, etc. Be sure you have registered your marriage at the Ampour and have the original certificate as well as registry form (computer generated document.) Enjoyed your story and hope all goes easier next visit to Korat.

Thank you for the good advice, will follow it. Next mountain to climb is of course the driving livence once I have achieved present targets. 

[Sailor42]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

A good sense of humor is essential when dealing with Thai bureaucracy. Luckily, it seems you have it, and successfully kept your cool: number one rule, as it keeps the officials on your side for next time. Hopefully, it will get easier.

Absolutely. The old Navy discussion which goes " flat statement on one side, followed by complete contradiction on the other, followed by increasingly loud mutual personal abuse" is entirely inappropriate in Thailand.

[Sailor42]

4 hours ago, glegolo said:

I think this was the worst performance I have ever read here on ThaiVISA..  Suggest that you organize and plan like when you served in younger days... Half of all this crap you experienced was your own fault, completely your own fault..

 

Glegolo

Thank you for your helpful judgement and advice. Will try to learn from my incompetence, oh wise one.

[Sailor42]

7 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

Sorry to say but you missed out on the ''professional planning prevents piss-poor performance'' :

to discover Embassy moved some weeks ago to new site,    

only to learn that all applications now assessed at VFS Sukhumvit.

discovered the only one they can apparently use to track progress is the fee payment receipt number

 

Good thing there is Johnny to help out though

 

You are correct. As you say, God bless Johnny!

[glegolo]

4 hours ago, Sailor42 said:

Thank you for your helpful judgement and advice. Will try to learn from my incompetence, oh wise one.

Like we say in the army.... "tough love is the only love...." Learn from other peoples input, start to plan and organize yourself, and learn about the process BEFORE you go out on these roadtrips that leads to absolutely nowhere most often...

 

Glegolo

[stevenl]

Open a new account at a different bank with less stringent requirements.

[akampa]

I think the headline should have read   "

 

The trials and tribulations of an unorganised guy.

 

Good read though.

[YetAnother]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

Open a new account at a different bank with less stringent requirements.

try bangkok bank, my experience with them vs. others suggests they actually want farang business

[ICECOOL]

AUSTRALIAN EMBASSY has moved?? Where too?

[YetAnother]

13 hours ago, asiaexpat said:

extension of stay based on marriage to a Thai

the other uses i agree with, this one might be iffy, immig offices are looking for passports

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, ICECOOL said:

AUSTRALIAN EMBASSY has moved?? Where too?

Behind the Japanese embassy on Wireless Road.

Info here: http://thailand.embassy.gov.au/bkok/contact-us.html

[jippytum]

Good job you have a calm nature .I noticed when you had a large shopping list .....Quote ...I also bought a new air-conditioner, smart TV, vacuum cleaner, gas cooktop, gold ear-rings and necklace. And new Michelin tyres for the car! And smiled.

Was the gold on your original shopping list  or  to placate your good lady for the stress caused by a complete  lack of forward planning ????

[asiaexpat]

1 hour ago, YetAnother said:

the other uses i agree with, this one might be iffy, immig offices are looking for passports

Of course they are looking for a passport! But they also want proof of residence which is what I said the YT was used for. 

[timendres]

Others may disagree... But anytime I engage an official process such as yours, for the first time, I pay for a professional to assist me - typically a lawyer. It is simply not worth the grief to go it alone. Thai ladies are little more knowledgeable than the Farang, despite their confidence, so they are rarely any help. Once I have sorted the process for the first time, then I am happy to go it alone the following times. More so in your case, as you are not located in Bangkok, which, as you have discovered, can mean having to traverse great distances to correct a small error, misunderstanding, or change of official requirements or venue.

[lanng khao]

Has the chock chai immigration office moved from Dan kwian??. That was a good read, my nerves were shot at the end of it,  it helps though when you have Johnny, jack, and Jim as your mates to rely on..

[AD3Andy]

...yes, change your bank. I'm a 46 yr old Brit on a 6 month tourist visit & managed to open an account with Kasikorn Bank which I believe is 1 of only 3 banks who will open a bank account for a farang without a work permit or yellow Tabien Bahn.

[orchis]

You leave behind necessary documents in your safe in Korat and you are the organized one?

[bazza73]

Thailand can defeat the best efforts at organization, not that I would say this could be classed as a best effort.

The one that always baffles me is how it is possible on the road to need three or four attempts at obtaining directions, before one gets to the desired destination. It's set in stone that the first person asked for directions will be wrong.

At times like that, it's best to go with the flow and relax with a stiff Scotch afterwards.

[Antioc]

When doing business at any Bank in Thailand try to find the District Head Branch.  The staff in local Branches often don't have the experience in dealing with more complex banking matters and may also short change you big time.  For example, the other day I attempted to withdraw $1,000 from my Visa and place it in my wife's account, something I had done on numerous occasions.  After trying 2 local Branches of the BKK Bank we drove over to the Head Branch where the transaction was completed without delay and with a 1,500 Bht increase on the amounts proposed by the local Branches.  A big lesson in Thai banking.

There has to be a better way to do things "everywhere".  I attempted to get a copy of my Birth Certificate via the Internet from a Government Office in a country that prides and promotes itself as an advanced Nation.  The absolute B.S. that I had to go through, trying to explain that I didn't have the exact documents they required because they weren't with me here, the ferrying back and forth and the threats to cancel the application, was bl..dy mind boggling.  I provided them with an Embassy certified copy of my Passport, a recent Police Clearance and several other Official papers - not good enough, your application is due to expire!!  When it comes to bureaucracy it's the same everywhere.  Bashing the Thai's for doing their job (as they see it) is futile, most of the time I have little or no trouble dealing with officials here.

I feel your frustration and hope it works out for you.