Stop fighting over Brexit and get real, Jim O'Neill tells UK

[rockingrobin]

7 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

The EU cant force the UK to pay but you can expect the pound to be devalued further if they dont.

 

The subsequent losses to the UK via another big currency devaluation would far exceed the divorce bill.

 

Numbers, however, have never been a strong point with Brexiteers.

If it ever got to this stage, the EU could for example object to the UK WTO schedueles, or block any trade agreement.

International state immuniy only extends to public acts but not private acts, so the UK could find itself bogged down in domestic courts

[onthesoi]

33 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

If it ever got to this stage, the EU could for example object to the UK WTO schedueles, or block any trade agreement.

International state immuniy only extends to public acts but not private acts, so the UK could find itself bogged down in domestic courts

Yes, UK signed up to legally binding financial commitments, reneging on those commitments is like refusing to pay back a loan.

 

Credit rating downgrade, further pound devaluation & trade sanctions is the perfect storm that would finally put the UK out of its misery.

[Laughing Gravy]

20 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

Yes, UK signed up to legally binding financial commitments, reneging on those commitments is like refusing to pay back a loan.

 

Credit rating downgrade, further pound devaluation & trade sanctions is the perfect storm that would finally put the UK out of its misery.

If you are using that analogy how much does the UK get for the slice of the buildings and assets that they put into during the 40 plus years, especially when there was only 6 other countries. As for paying back a loan, you usually get a breakdown of what you owe and why. The EU haven't even bothered and just picked a figure out of the sky.

[chrissables]

1 hour ago, onthesoi said:

The EU cant force the UK to pay but you can expect the pound to be devalued further if they dont.

 

The subsequent losses to the UK via another big currency devaluation would far exceed the divorce bill.

 

Numbers, however, have never been a strong point with Brexiteers.

Well the Brixiteers numbers were higher the remoaners.

 

Although a lower value pound hurts me, it helps all companies exporting.

[onthesoi]

11 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

As for paying back a loan, you usually get a breakdown of what you owe and why. The EU haven't even bothered and just picked a figure out of the sky.

 

[onthesoi]

11 minutes ago, chrissables said:

Well the Brixiteers numbers were higher the remoaners.

 

Although a lower value pound hurts me, it helps all companies exporting.

The idea that a crashed pound is a positive thing because it increases exports is complete horeshit.

 

The ingredients to make those products will be imported as will the oil required the only thing left to secure a margin is to crush workers conditions, pay, pensions, health and safety etc .... & you do that best via immigration of low paid workers, oh the irony!

[Laughing Gravy]

30 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

Even the pro EU independent acknowledges this.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-eu-uk-divorce-bill-differences-david-davis-a7931406.html

 

 

[onthesoi]

44 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Even the pro EU independent acknowledges this.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-eu-uk-divorce-bill-differences-david-davis-a7931406.html

 

 

Nowhere in that article does it substantiate your earlier claim, lets remind ourselves what you said:

 

As for paying back a loan, you usually get a breakdown of what you owe and why. The EU haven't even bothered and just picked a figure out of the sky.

 

The article you provided as a source talks about the 2 sides negotiating the amount owed, nothing about the EU not giving a breakdown of that owed by the UK nor does it mention the EU making up numbers.

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by onthesoi

[Laughing Gravy]

51 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

Nowhere in that article does it substantiate your earlier claim, lets remind ourselves what you said:

 

As for paying back a loan, you usually get a breakdown of what you owe and why. The EU haven't even bothered and just picked a figure out of the sky.

 

The article you provided as a source talks about the 2 sides negotiating the amount owed, nothing about the EU not giving a breakdown of that owed by the UK nor does it mention the EU making up numbers.

 

 

 

Do our own research it is there. I posted a very pro EU paper also not having a figure of the so called Brexit divorce. Nowhere to my knowledge has the EU given a breakdown of the so called amount owed. If you know better enlighten us which I know you can't.

 

[rockingrobin]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Do our own research it is there. I posted a very pro EU paper also not having a figure of the so called Brexit divorce. Nowhere to my knowledge has the EU given a breakdown of the so called amount owed. If you know better enlighten us which I know you can't.

 

The current process is not about calculating the figure, this will be achieved once the negotations have been concluded.

They are presently attempting to negotiate the methodology for the calculations

Edited September 13, 2017 by rockingrobin

[chrissables]

4 hours ago, onthesoi said:

The idea that a crashed pound is a positive thing because it increases exports is complete horeshit.

 

The ingredients to make those products will be imported as will the oil required the only thing left to secure a margin is to crush workers conditions, pay, pensions, health and safety etc .... & you do that best via immigration of low paid workers, oh the irony!

The pound has been in decline since 2010.

 

Office of National Statistics: Tourism up 7% in the last year to August.

 

British retail Consortium: + 2.4% for the same period. Online non food products + 11% same period.

 

FSTE 100: + 20% since the referendum.

 

FT250: UK businesses: + 30% since referendum

 

Lloyds Bank, East Midlands calculated: New orders grew at the fastest rate for 3 years, while the order backlog is the highest for 16 years.

 

Manufacturing Group EEF: More companies have seen output and orders increase at any time since 1995.

 

In the last year there are 338,000 more people in employment.

 

Yes, the irony!

 

[Khun Han]

50 minutes ago, chrissables said:

The pound has been in decline since 2010.

 

Office of National Statistics: Tourism up 7% in the last year to August.

 

British retail Consortium: + 2.4% for the same period. Online non food products + 11% same period.

 

FSTE 100: + 20% since the referendum.

 

FT250: UK businesses: + 30% since referendum

 

Lloyds Bank, East Midlands calculated: New orders grew at the fastest rate for 3 years, while the order backlog is the highest for 16 years.

 

Manufacturing Group EEF: More companies have seen output and orders increase at any time since 1995.

 

In the last year there are 338,000 more people in employment.

 

Yes, the irony!

 

 

And, just announced, employment up again.

[onthesoi]

3 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Do our own research it is there. I posted a very pro EU paper also not having a figure of the so called Brexit divorce. Nowhere to my knowledge has the EU given a breakdown of the so called amount owed. If you know better enlighten us which I know you can't.

 

 

You are the one making a claim therfore the onus is on you to provide the evidence.

 

So far you've only provided a link to an article which has nothing to do with your claim.

 

Until you provide evidence of your quote below we can file this as 'brexiteers making stuff up again' :

 

As for paying back a loan, you usually get a breakdown of what you owe and why. The EU haven't even bothered and just picked a figure out of the sky.

 

 

 

[onthesoi]

1 hour ago, chrissables said:

The pound has been in decline since 2010.

 

The pound fell off a cliff the very same day the referendum result was known and has since hit a 31 year low....which equates to a 22% devaluation.

 

Pretending the post referendum shark attack on the pound has nothing to with brexit just means you're in denial and further gives evidence to my earlier post which stated that brexiteers are not very good at numbers.

 

[Laughing Gravy]

5 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

 

You are the one making a claim therfore the onus is on you to provide the evidence.

 

So far you've only provided a link to an article which has nothing to do with your claim.

 

Until you provide evidence of your quote below we can file this as 'brexiteers making stuff up again' :

 

As for paying back a loan, you usually get a breakdown of what you owe and why. The EU haven't even bothered and just picked a figure out of the sky.

 

 

 

Well having just watched Heir Juncker and Nigel Farage destroy him you and the other Europhiles and remainers here is Farage summoning up. No EU army eh was the mantra from many here and even more control taken away from the countries. Zich Heil.

 

 

[onthesoi]

1 hour ago, chrissables said:

The pound has been in decline since 2010.

 

Office of National Statistics: Tourism up 7% in the last year to August.

 

British retail Consortium: + 2.4% for the same period. Online non food products + 11% same period.

 

FSTE 100: + 20% since the referendum.

 

FT250: UK businesses: + 30% since referendum

 

Lloyds Bank, East Midlands calculated: New orders grew at the fastest rate for 3 years, while the order backlog is the highest for 16 years.

 

Manufacturing Group EEF: More companies have seen output and orders increase at any time since 1995.

 

In the last year there are 338,000 more people in employment.

 

Yes, the irony!

 

 

And yet, with all this supposed confidence in the UK economy you cant explain why the pound is still shitting the bed against every other currency.

 

It doesn't matter what tall tales are spun by brexiteers about the health of the UK economy, its only the international currency markets which matter.

 

 

[onthesoi]

34 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

And, just announced, employment up again.

 

Being forced to work in Poundland in exchange for benefits is not real employment, but it sure helps the Tories to massage the figures and hide their failures.

 

In other news, use of foodbanks at record levels.

Edited September 13, 2017 by onthesoi

[onthesoi]

12 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well having just watched Heir Juncker and Nigel Farage destroy him you and the other Europhiles and remainers here is Farage summoning up. No EU army eh was the mantra from many here and even more control taken away from the countries. Zich Heil.

 

 

I've no idea what your post means or what it has to do with you not providing a source for your claims?

 

Its very strange that a man as highly deucated as yourself(is it two or three masters degrees you claim to hold I forget?) doesnt understand the importance of an evidence based discussion.

 

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, onthesoi said:

 

And yet, with all this supposed confidence in the UK economy you cant explain why the pound is still shitting the bed against every other currency.

 

It doesn't matter what tall tales are spun by brexiteers about the health of the UK economy, its only the international currency markets which matter.

 

 

It's not still making a mess of the bed! It's up 10% against the USD in the last 11 months Talk about tales!

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

It's not still making a mess of the bed! It's up 10% against the USD in the last 11 months Talk about tales!

The dollar is down against virtually all currencies over that time period. On the other hand, you want to tell us how the pound is doing against the Euro? (Hint: not well). That's a set of far more salient figures.

[nauseus]

14 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

The dollar is down against virtually all currencies over that time period. On the other hand, you want to tell us how the pound is doing against the Euro? (Hint: not well). That's a set of far more salient figures.

Yes, then 1.10 now 1.11. Salient enough?

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Yes, then 1.10 now 1.11. Salient enough?

Not really, since the time period chosen was about the American decline. The genuinely salient figures are where the pound was before Brexit and now. It has declined more against the Euro than against the dollar. 

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Not really, since the time period chosen was about the American decline. The genuinely salient figures are where the pound was before Brexit and now. It has declined more against the Euro than against the dollar. 

Talk about mobile goalposts! 

[ilostmypassword]

20 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Talk about mobile goalposts! 

Just common sense. Unless you can explain how the pound's relation to the dollar is as significant in judging the markets' evaluation of the UK's prospects as is its relation to the Euro. Moreover, what's really significant is how the Euro has done against the pound since brexit. Especially since it has finally turned the corner on the recession.

[chrissables]

4 hours ago, onthesoi said:

The pound fell off a cliff the very same day the referendum result was known and has since hit a 31 year low....which equates to a 22% devaluation.

 

Pretending the post referendum shark attack on the pound has nothing to with brexit just means you're in denial and further gives evidence to my earlier post which stated that brexiteers are not very good at numbers.

 

I am not pretending anything. The fact is the pound has been in decline since 2010. 

[chrissables]

4 hours ago, onthesoi said:

 

And yet, with all this supposed confidence in the UK economy you cant explain why the pound is still shitting the bed against every other currency.

 

It doesn't matter what tall tales are spun by brexiteers about the health of the UK economy, its only the international currency markets which matter.

 

 

I am quoting facts, you are not. Confidence is relative to what business you are in. I will presume you are not running a business.

[nauseus]

9 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Just common sense. Unless you can explain how the pound's relation to the dollar is as significant in judging the markets' evaluation of the UK's prospects as is its relation to the Euro. Moreover, what's really significant is how the Euro has done against the pound since brexit. Especially since it has finally turned the corner on the recession.

More mobile goalposts! 

[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, chrissables said:

I am not pretending anything. The fact is the pound has been in decline since 2010. 

Not against the Euro

 

3 minutes ago, chrissables said:

I am quoting facts, you are not. Confidence is relative to what business you are in. I will presume you are not running a business.

Quoting facts are you? Like the pound has been in decline since 2010? Not against the dollar or the euro.

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, nauseus said:

More mobile goalposts! 

Glad to see you've decided to give your powers of reason, such as they are, a rest.

[chrissables]

Just now, ilostmypassword said:

Not against the Euro

 

Quoting facts are you? Like the pound has been in decline since 2010? Not against the dollar or the euro.

I said the pound has been in decline since 2010. Am i wrong?