Filling Land In Bangkok

[Ceedee]

I recently bought about 2,000 m2 of undeveloped land in the Srinakarin area. The land still looks like a jungle with swamps and my wife proposes some deals with small companies from the area which offer to fill the land for about THB 500,000 (that would be for 100cm above street level).

Does anybody have experience with this? What are quality criteria for the earth/material to be used? Stones good or bad? We plan to have a house and a big garden... I am looking for things I should fix in the contract or negotiations before it is too late.

Would appreciate some help very much. Thanks.

[chownah]

Sounds like you might be paying alot of money so that people can dump garbage their for free!!!!! In other words.....be very cautious about any deals you make about where the dirt is coming from and its quality, how long it will take to finish the fill, and how it will be compacted. Uncompacted dirt can easily settle 20% over a couple years time.

Then the best thing is to be there and examine the truckloads as they come in and dump....halting operations if bad stuff shows up until the matter can be straightened out......no payment in advance is best.

Chownah

[Thaibel]

Hi,

We have experience with landfill operations

Here some tips:

1.Why you need 1m above street level for a landfill ?

2.Have at least 80% compounding

3.Ask for a guarentee for 60 days for the landfill to be stable

4.Ask for a lumpsum price instead of a truck price, you will be better of and you are sure not to pay more

5.A 10% pre-payment is normal, doing landfill without pre-payment is risky business.

6.And at last and most important, ask your license to do the landfill before starting it to avoid problems with the officials.

For more info you are welcome to contact us.

Thaibel Asia Co.Ltd

Edited January 7, 2007 by Thaibel Asia Co.Ltd

[chownah]

How will you know if you get 80% "compounding" (whatever compounding is).

A 60 day guarantee of stability means nothing unless it is 60 days in the middle of the rainy season.....it is water that will destabilize poorly placed and protected fill and if its dry for 60 days or only moderate rainfall even poorly placed soil will not be destabilized enough for you to make a claim. If you think you can get a guarantee then ask for until the end of the next rainy season....and be sure you define clearly what amount of loss of embankment is covered by the guarantee (if one corner erodes away will they come and replace it...twice if it happens again...will they determine why it failed the first time and take corrective action?) and will the guarantee cover removal of dirt from the neighbors land (or wherever the dirt ends up) and will it cover any damage that the embankment failure makes to ajacent property such as buildings, drainage facilities, vehicles, lawns, utility poles, buried utilities, etc.?...and will it cover damage done to neighbor's property during cleanup effort...like backhoe tracks and re-establishing lawns and rebuilding septic tanks, etc.?

Lumpsum seems to be the way you're going and is probably best unless you know alot about earthwork.

I've never prepaid for any dirt I bought but then again I've never bought over 20,000 baht worth at one time. I don't understand what risk you would be incurring by not prepaying the suggested 10%.

Chownah

P.S. Since legal issues are on my mind I might suggest that if the contractor wants to go onto other people's property at anytime you should be sure to NOT give the ok for this because it make YOU liable for any damage that they do.....better to get THEM to contact the OWNERS to get permission....this leaves you in the clear...at least this is the way it works back where I come from in most cases. If you are paying them 500,000 baht for doing the fill (this seems like alot but then I've never bought fill in Bangkok...you might check to see if it can be done cheaper....do your best to figure out how many truck loads and how much a truck load costs...this will at least give you a ballpark figure. I can get dirt for about 100 baht per cubic metre compacted so if you can get it for 200 baht (higher price in Bangkok) per cubic metre deliverd and compacted then you could put 2.5 metres of compacted earth on your 2,000 sq. metrelot over its entire area. When dealing with truck loads consider about 1/4 to 1/3 shrinkage from compaction. I figure that two trucks rated at 2 cubic metres (rating is based on truck box being brim full everywhere) deliver 3 cubic metres compacted....and likewise one four metre rated truck will deliver 3 cubic metres compacted.....this is about right. So if you pay 600 baht for a 4 cubic meter rated dump truck load then you will be paying about 200 baht per cubic metre compacted and it would cost you 500,000 baht to raise 2000 sq. metres by 2.5 metres in height. Check my numbers on this for mistakes.

Chownah

Edited January 7, 2007 by chownah

[Thaibel]

With 80% i ment, the soil density test that has to be done on the land to check the stability, you will never have 100%, it is not concrete after all.

2000m2(area):8-10m3(cub/truck)=250 trucks total x 1400-1600(average truck price)=350.000.-400.000.Baht

This is for filling the land exactly 1m.

Thaibel Asia

[lingling]

With 80% i ment, the soil density test that has to be done on the land to check the stability, you will never have 100%, it is not concrete after all.

2000m2(area):8-10m3(cub/truck)=250 trucks total x 1400-1600(average truck price)=350.000.-400.000.Baht

This is for filling the land exactly 1m.

8-10m³ per truck? Why not use a 10 wheel truck, then you can bring at least 15m³ per truck load.

Anyway, as someone pointed out, you have to watch every single truckload being dumped, otherwise there is a good chance that you will get a load of construction debris (asbestos, crushed concrete etc) or other garbage dumped on your land.

The price sounds unreasonably high, I would say 200k is a more reasonable figure. Have your wife or someone else Thai shop around a bit and do not let them reveal that a farang is involved until the price is set.

[chownah]

OOOOOps.....I did make a mistake on my calcultions in post #4. I used the 100 baht per cubic metre of compacted dirt instead of the 200 baht per metre estimate for Bangkok prices (double my upcountry price).

It should be that at 200 baht per cubic metre of COMPACTED earth your 500,000 baht will buy you 2,500 cubic metres of COMPACTED earth which would raise your 2000 sq. metre plot by about 1.25 metre..

Always remember that the dirt in trucks is "fluffed up" from being dug and loaded and it will alway compact to a smaller volume after it is dumped in place...either by equipment such as a tractor and the full dump trucks rolling over it....or by rain and time. I'm not sure but I think that Thaibel Asia Co forgot to include compaction in their last calculations.

Chownah

Edited January 9, 2007 by chownah

[Thaibel]

With 80% i ment, the soil density test that has to be done on the land to check the stability, you will never have 100%, it is not concrete after all.

2000m2(area):8-10m3(cub/truck)=250 trucks total x 1400-1600(average truck price)=350.000.-400.000.Baht

This is for filling the land exactly 1m.

8-10m³ per truck? Why not use a 10 wheel truck, then you can bring at least 15m³ per truck load.

8-10m3 per truck is legally allowed, if you put more then this and you could get in trouble with the local police....

Anyway, as someone pointed out, you have to watch every single truckload being dumped, otherwise there is a good chance that you will get a load of construction debris (asbestos, crushed concrete etc) or other garbage dumped on your land.

The price sounds unreasonably high, I would say 200k is a more reasonable figure. Have your wife or someone else Thai shop around a bit and do not let them reveal that a farang is involved until the price is set.

This price quote is very good if you want it to be done proffessionel, lower than this is not advised.....especially not in Touristic areas, in Koh Samui it goes up to almost 1900 baht/truck because there is not much filling ground available, it all depends on area too offcourse.

[Heng]

In roughly the same area as the OP, reminds me of our own previously swampy situations.

Another option (maybe, depending on your land) that might save you a bit is to use your own dirt to fill in your land. We did this with our 13 rai lot in Bangkapi... sacrificing about 2 rai or so in area in an S shaped pattern connecting to Klong San Saab. I can't give you the exact specs on depth or cost -this was done in the late 70's with manual labor only-, but the idea was to 'not open our wallets further than necessary' (our family motto) and at the same time create a man made lake/pond in the middle of our property next to the klong. If you have access to a construction crew with equipment, then this might offer some savings and at the same time make for some nice landscape. And for those who are wondering, yes, it's doable even on swampy land, as the entire lot was a swamp when purchased.

As another cost reference for you: more recently (2004-2005), on another plot, 8 rai... also swampy as much of western Bangkok is, roughly a kilometer down the road on Ramkhamhaeng, the cost to fill was 300,000 Baht per rai.... not sure about the composition, as I didn't take care of that issue myself. We didn't go the lake route as this was for commercial purposes. Anyway, yes, dirt can be pricey.... even when it doesn't come with a chanote; in fact the cost to fill this particular lot was more than it cost to acquire it (30 or so years ago).

[mlm]

I recently bought about 2,000 m2 of undeveloped land in the Srinakarin area. The land still looks like a jungle with swamps and my wife proposes some deals with small companies from the area which offer to fill the land for about THB 500,000 (that would be for 100cm above street level).

Does anybody have experience with this? What are quality criteria for the earth/material to be used? Stones good or bad? We plan to have a house and a big garden... I am looking for things I should fix in the contract or negotiations before it is too late.

Would appreciate some help very much. Thanks.

[mlm]

My suggestion,…………..

1) get permits (if needed),.make sure you can fill this piece of property (after the fact,.fines could be heavy,..they are in South Florida)

2) get soil samples taken (from an Engineering Testing Firm) on the property you plan on filling (soil borings),.to find out what is on the land and what you plan to cover up (your jungle). It could be organic material (it has to be removed at least where your home/drive way is going and your pool later on) and that material will decompose in time causing cracks in your houses foundation/home/pool as the property settles (organics rot).

3) find out,…..go look at the material your fill contractor is going to fill your property with

4) get tests (you need a “proctor” on the fill material) on the material you plan on filling your land from (soil samples) a competent /reliable engineering testing firm

5) make the contractor get 95% density (good enough for a home) on the material (lifts no higher than 2 feet) using ASTM D-1557/AASHTO T-180 metods,.your engineering testing lab should understand what you want when you tell them you are filling a piece of property. You will have to have test run on every lift,.it should cost about 35.00 (US dollar)/test. If you are filling 6 feet you will need at least 3 tests (6 foot fill divided by 2 foot lifts equals 3 tests),………you should do more tests around the property each lift. Property should be compacted with a vibratory roller.

6) now you are ready to build a home on the property

7) get three! prices from competent engineering contractors (fill contractors),….not one! tell the contractor your intentions and your plan (what I described above),.if they question you and your judgment,…watch out! Move on to another contractor. You do NOT want to make a mistake in filling your property.

Remember a good foundation is always best to start from.

One more thing,……..you can figure the volume of material you need once the property has been cleared and all organic material removed from the property (use a surveyor to make sure you are placing the material and clearing the land you bought). To find out the amount of material you will need take the.length times width and height (your surveyors will do this,…since they will have and make better measuring points),……………the end figure will give you “in place volume” of material needed to fill the property (tell the surveyors to include angle of repose for the slope that will be created around the fill area,…the slope).

To find the volume of material you will need trucked into your property you will have to figure “swell”. Since, I believe you will be using a sand material (less expensive than rock and sand) the swell will be about 15% to be safe. Example: if your surveyors determine you will need 4,000 cubic meters of material,.you will have to truck into the job site 4,600 cubic meters of loose material (4,000 cubic meters times 115% equals 4,600 cubic yards).

The measurements your surveyors will give you is “in place measurement/volume” of material you need to fill the property. The material you will be purchasing from the quarry will be loose material (which is swelled material).

I am a licensed engineering contractor (South Florida) living in BKK. Good luck.

By the way,……rock (3 inch or less,..with fines/sand) is a good fill material.

[biofuels]

With 80% i ment, the soil density test that has to be done on the land to check the stability, you will never have 100%, it is not concrete after all.

2000m2(area):8-10m3(cub/truck)=250 trucks total x 1400-1600(average truck price)=350.000.-400.000.Baht

This is for filling the land exactly 1m.

Thaibel Asia

Hi Thaibel. Do you actually know someone who can do a landfill in Bangkok for 1400 - 1600 baht per truck? I haven't found anyone who do it for less than 2100 baht. I'm in Rangsit. Please let me know if you have some contacts. I need to filll 380 wah about 1.5 meters.