Sentence Builder

[In the Rai!]

I have another question as to the usage of สิ่ง over อัน

ไม่พอใจในสิ่งที่ตัวเองชอบ ( I am not satisfied with myself)

My question is as per this example or others with สิ่ง over อัน why is it that you use สิ่ง for people etc but not อัน. You can not say ไม่พอใจในอันที่ตัวเองชอบ

Whilst I understand both, I didnt learn Thai formaly so I have only ever had it explained to me in Thai and its still not that clear.

I know they are both classifiers but was is the difference?

cheers ITR

[aanon]

I have another question as to the usage of สิ่ง over อัน

ไม่พอใจในสิ่งที่ตัวเองชอบ ( I am not satisfied with myself)

My question is as per this example or others with สิ่ง over อัน why is it that you use สิ่ง for people etc but not อัน. You can not say ไม่พอใจในอันที่ตัวเองชอบ

Whilst I understand both, I didnt learn Thai formaly so I have only ever had it explained to me in Thai and its still not that clear.

I know they are both classifiers but was is the difference?

cheers ITR

hi ITR,

often the difference between สิ่ง and อัน can be similar to the difference between "thing" and "one" in sentences like this:

i'm not satisfied with the things i made

i'm not satisfied with the one(s) i made

the thing i believe is that....

the one i believe is that....

สิ่งนี้ this thing

อันนี้ this one

ไม่พอใจในสิ่งที่ตัวเองชอบ

i would read this as "i'm not satisfied with the things i like" or "i'm not satisfied with my preferences". it's a strange thing to say, and i wonder whether maybe it's not quite what you meant to say. here are some similar sentences which could come up though:

ไม่พอใจในสิ่ง/อันที่ตัวเองมีอยู่

i'm not satisfied with the things/one i have at present

ไม่พอใจในสิ่ง/อันที่ตัวเองสร้างขึ้นมา

i'm not satisfied with the thing/one i have created

all the best.

Edited January 19, 2007 by aanon

[loong]

ไม่พอใจในสิ่งที่ตัวเองชอบ

I'm not exactly sure of what you are saying here. I would say it meant "I am not satisfied with my likes" As Aanon posted. It's another case where the thai language uses a lot of extra words that they would not use in everyday speech, I think

I wonder, though is it better to Say I'm not proud of myself using

สมใจ sŏm jai

My Thai phrasing is about equivalent to a Thai 2 year-old's, so

ไม่สมใจตัวเอง That is how I would say it, but maybe not grammatically correct. Please tell me how it should be said because I'm no too สมใจ of my Language skills

Does adding ชอบ to ตัวเอง alter the meaning in some way?

Edited January 20, 2007 by loong

[In the Rai!]

ไม่พอใจในสิ่งที่ตัวเองชอบ

I'm not exactly sure of what you are saying here. I would say it meant "I am not satisfied with my likes" As Aanon posted. It's another case where the thai language uses a lot of extra words that they would not use in everyday speech, I think

I wonder, though is it better to Say I'm not proud of myself using

สมใจ sŏm jai

My Thai phrasing is about equivalent to a Thai 2 year-old's, so

ไม่สมใจตัวเอง That is how I would say it, but maybe not grammatically correct. Please tell me how it should be said because I'm no too สมใจ of my Language skills

Does adding ชอบ to ตัวเอง alter the meaning in some way?

No Loong I just used a bad example. I dont know why I added ชอบ on the end. I was thinking of 2 or so sentences at once and didnt check it before I posted. without the chob ชอบ on the end it would have been, I am not satisfied with myself. (but still not a great example).

I should have used an example like

ผมไม่ชอบในสิ่งที่คุณพูด

Probably would have been better.

Edited January 22, 2007 by In the Rai!

[loong]

Just a few problems I have when I translate Thai into English. I understand the sentences when I read them but I ofetn have problems choosing the correct words when trying to write them out into English.

for example ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษา ....... komuun garn suksar kong naksuksar .....

Garn always confuses me as to whether to add ing to the verb.

Like would this be "Students that are studying data" or "students that study data" or "The data that is being studied by students"

As you can see it is usually the adding of การ that confuses me. I know when to add it when I speak and write Thai its just when I want to translate it to English that I get confused at times.

Any help or rules to remember would be appreciated.

Cheers ITR

I could be wrong ( I often am)

ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษา

I would seperate this ข้อมูล (การศึกษาของนักศึกษา )

การศึกษาของนักศึกษา Education (Noun) of Student -in other words -"Student's Education", the object of the sentence (I think, grammar is not my strong point)

ข้อมูล Data , Information

Information (data, details) relating to the Student's Education.

So could it be what we English call "School Report"?

Where did you read this phrase In The Rai?

ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษานานาชาติในสถาบัน ไมสามาถค้นหาไดในเมืองไทย

This is the full phrase I used for my example. I have it my book but don't know where it came from (source). It would be a while ago when I wrote it in there.

That is why it confuses me a little as I would translate this to

ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษานานาชาติในสถาบัน ไมสามาถค้นหาไดในเมืองไทย

"The information studied from the international students in the institute could not be found in Thailand."

ITR

I'm assuming that you have a few typos in there,so think it is ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษานานาชาติในสถาบัน ไม่สามารถค้นหาได้ในเมืองไทย

and I would say that it means " In Thailand, it is not (or has not been) possible to research data relating to the education of international (or foreign) students in institutes."

Incidently, another way to say research is วิจัย (verb) adding การ to the front makes การวิจัย research (Noun) so another example of การ

Edited January 22, 2007 by loong

[loong]

often a verb is changed to an abstracct noun by adding ...ess to the end, although not usually that simple

Happy Happiness

Clean cleanliness

Sad sadness

Blind blindness

Happy, clean, sad and blind are adjectives... (although clean and blind can be verbs as well, as in "He cleans his room every week." and "She was blinded by the light.")

Dancing, cooking and fishing are called 'gerunds' or 'verbal nouns' in English. While based on verbs, they occupy the same spaces in a sentence as a noun would.

Sorry, you]re absolutely right there, what chance do I have with Thai when I can't get to grips with English grammar I have never heard of "gerunds", but I think that I understand now.

One thing I do find very strange, in English we will say "I am happy" and the Thai word for happy is สุข, a verb. You never hear anyone say ผมสุข, it's always มีความสุข "I have happiness". I've never understood why.

ไม่พอใจในสิ่งที่ตัวเองชอบ

I'm not exactly sure of what you are saying here. I would say it meant "I am not satisfied with my likes" As Aanon posted. It's another case where the thai language uses a lot of extra words that they would not use in everyday speech, I think

I wonder, though is it better to Say I'm not proud of myself using

สมใจ sŏm jai

My Thai phrasing is about equivalent to a Thai 2 year-old's, so

ไม่สมใจตัวเอง That is how I would say it, but maybe not grammatically correct. Please tell me how it should be said because I'm no too สมใจ of my Language skills

Does adding ชอบ to ตัวเอง alter the meaning in some way?

No Loong I just used a bad example. I dont know why I added ชอบ on the end. I was thinking of 2 or so sentences at once and didnt check it before I posted. without the chob ชอบ on the end it would have been, I am not satisfied with myself. (but still not a great example).

I should have used an example like

ผมไม่ชอบในสิ่งที่คุณพูด

Probably would have been better.

I read ผมไม่ชอบในสิ่งที่คุณพูด as "I don't like what you are saying", so สิ่ง here would refer to the subject of the conversation.

ทุกสิ่งทุกอย่าง means everything, I usually think of it as Everything, every aspect.

If you used อย่าง instead of สิ่ง, so ผมไม่ชอบในอย่างที่คุณพูด would that change the meaning to " I don't like the way (or manner) that you are speaking"? or am I way off here?

[In the Rai!]

I read ผมไม่ชอบในสิ่งที่คุณพูด as "I don't like what you are saying", so สิ่ง here would refer to the subject of the conversation.

ทุกสิ่งทุกอย่าง means everything, I usually think of it as Everything, every aspect.

If you used อย่าง instead of สิ่ง, so ผมไม่ชอบในอย่างที่คุณพูด would that change the meaning to " I don't like the way (or manner) that you are speaking"? or am I way off here?

No สิ่ง, อย่าง and อัน are not interchangeable in this sentence which is why I was curious as to why you can use สิ่ง and not อัน or อย่าง

ผมไม่ชอบในสิ่งที่คุณพูด is ok whilst ผมไม่ชอบในอย่างที่คุณพูด

and ผมไม่ชอบในอันที่คุณพูด are not.

I think I understand it though afetr annons explanation.

Using สิ่ง - I don't like the thing(s) you said

Using อัน - I don't like the one(s) you said (not correct even in English)

Cheers ITR

Edited January 23, 2007 by In the Rai!

[meadish_sweetball]

Sorry, you]re absolutely right there, what chance do I have with Thai when I can't get to grips with English grammar sad.gif I have never heard of "gerunds", but I think that I understand now.

One thing I do find very strange, in English we will say "I am happy" and the Thai word for happy is สุข, a verb. You never hear anyone say ผมสุข, it's always มีความสุข "I have happiness". I've never understood why.

Neither have I, good question actually.

To confuse things further, it is ok to say ไม่มีสุข (to be unhappy) and conversely, มีสุข is also ok, as is เป็นสุข ... so ความ is not strictly necessary in all cases either.

It would be nice with an explanation if somebody else has it.

[In the Rai!]

Hi guys,

I have a question regarding อย่างไรก็ตาม yarng rai gor darm (however, nevertheless)

I only ever use it when included with ทึงเเม้ว่า tuung maer war (even though)

For example ทึงเเม้ว่ามันจะดึกมากเเล้ว อย่างไรก็ตาม ต้องทำงานให้เสร็จ

(Even though its very late, however I have to finish my work)

or

ทึงเเม้ว่างานจะหนักแค่ไหน อย่างไรก็ตาม ต้องทำงานให้เสร็จ

(Even though I have alot of work, however nevertheless I still have to finish my work)

Has anyone got any other examples of use in sentences that they could share.

I use ทึงเเม้ว่า alot but I dont use อย่างไรก็ตาม very much.

cheers guys

oops and girls

[loong]

Hello ITR,

spelling error I think

ทึงเเม้ว่า is ถึงแม้ว่า with a ถ not ท (no not being clever, just copied and paste into T2E and it wasn't recognised)

Thanks for the great examples of sentence construction, I think that some of this is beginning to penetrate my thick skull.

Keep up the good work

Edited out my own spelling mistake - Oops!

Edited January 25, 2007 by loong

[In the Rai!]

Hello ITR,

spelling error I think

ทึงเเม้ว่า is ถึงแม้ว่า with a ถ not ท (no not being clever, just copied and paste into T2E and it wasn't recognised)

Thanks for the great examples of sentence construction, I think that some of this is beginning to penetrate my thick skull.

Keep up the good work

Edited out my own spelling mistake - Oops!

hey thanks again..

Yes and Then I made the mistake (lazy mistake and bad for typing practice) of cutting and pasting.

Spelling is just not my thing even in English

Cheers again and well spotted..

reason for edit: edited another spellng mustake hehe

ITR

Edited January 25, 2007 by In the Rai!

[In the Rai!]

Sorry, you]re absolutely right there, what chance do I have with Thai when I can't get to grips with English grammar sad.gif I have never heard of "gerunds", but I think that I understand now.

One thing I do find very strange, in English we will say "I am happy" and the Thai word for happy is สุข, a verb. You never hear anyone say ผมสุข, it's always มีความสุข "I have happiness". I've never understood why.

Neither have I, good question actually.

To confuse things further, it is ok to say ไม่มีสุข (to be unhappy) and conversely, มีสุข is also ok, as is เป็นสุข ... so ความ is not strictly necessary in all cases either.

It would be nice with an explanation if somebody else has it.

[yoot]

Sorry, you]re absolutely right there, what chance do I have with Thai when I can't get to grips with English grammar sad.gif I have never heard of "gerunds", but I think that I understand now.

One thing I do find very strange, in English we will say "I am happy" and the Thai word for happy is สุข, a verb. You never hear anyone say ผมสุข, it's always มีความสุข "I have happiness". I've never understood why.

Neither have I, good question actually.

To confuse things further, it is ok to say ไม่มีสุข (to be unhappy) and conversely, มีสุข is also ok, as is เป็นสุข ... so ความ is not strictly necessary in all cases either.

It would be nice with an explanation if somebody else has it.

สุข is a noun not a verb.

From RID:

ค้น : สุข; สุข

คำ : สุข; สุข-

เสียง : สุก; สุก-ขะ-

ชนิด : น. (noun)

ที่มา : (ป., ส.) (Pali/Sanskrit)

นิยาม : ความสบาย, ความสำราญ, ความปราศจากโรค.

So, it’s impossible to say ผมสุข, because there is no verb in this sentence. But ผมสุก is ok.

I have read การ and ความ have been discussed about changing verb or adjective to be noun. But didn’t discuss that for noun itself can add การ and ความ in front of it too, to make it more specific. For examples; เมือง การเมือง ความเมือง ศึก การศึก ความศึก ฯลฯ all are nouns which used in different context. So, the same as สุข and ความสุข.

[meadish_sweetball]

Thank you yoot, that does help explain.

If you have time, can you explain the difference in meaning between สุข and ความสุข ?

[In the Rai!]

Thank you yoot, that does help explain.

If you have time, can you explain the difference in meaning between สุข and ความสุข ?

I would love to hear from you yoot aswell.

I have always used สุข in 2 ways but usually opting for the ความสุข over the เป็นสุข

here is an example of how I would use both and would love to hear of other ways to do so.

ก่อนสงครามประชาชนอย่างเป็นสุข (I would use this as - Before the war the people were happy) but it is bigger than ความสุข in that it includes like peace and quiet as well. IMO

compared to

ก่อนสงครามประชาชนอย่างมีความสุข (Before the war all the people had happiness) I would use this as just happiness.

Just my opinion and would love to hear from Yoot or others aswell.

cheers ITR

[meadish_sweetball]

ITR, just one small thing: ก่อนสงครามประชาชนอย่างมีความสุข should be ก่อนสงครามประชาชนยังมีความสุข

อย่างมีความสุข means 'happily' - อย่าง transforms the verb phrase to an adverb, whereas ยัง means 'still'.

You could use that construction in 'Before the war, the people lived happily together' which would be ก่อนสงครามประชาชนยังอยู่ด้วยกันอย่างมีความสุข

[yoot]

So, it’s impossible to say ผมสุข, because there is no verb in this sentence.

Well, actually it's not quite to say it's impossible to say ผมสุข. You might hear or read something like "คุณสุข ผมก็สุข คุณทุกข์ ผมก็ทุกข์", both สุข and ทุกข์ sound like verb in this sentence but in fact it's not. It's from the sentence "คุณมีความสุข ผมก็มีความสุข ถ้าคุณมีความทุกข์ ผมก็มีความทุกข์"

For the difference in meaning between สุข and ความสุข, I don't think I can explain. If you ask any Thais about it, you would get the answer " สุข ก็คือความสุข ทุกข์ ก็คือความทุกข์ " they are the same. In some sentences they are interchangeable.

For examples:

คนเราจะมีสุข หรือ ไม่มีสุข มันอยู่ที่ใจ

คนเราจะมีความสุข หรือ ไม่มีความสุข มันอยู่ที่ใจ

Both sentences are the same.

or from the ITR's examples;

ก่อนสงครามประชาชนอย่างเป็นสุข - ก่อนสงครามประชาชนอยู่กันอย่างเป็นสุข

ก่อนสงครามประชาชนอย่างมีความสุข - ก่อนสงครามประชาชนอยู่กันอย่างมีความสุข

อยู่กัน - verb

อย่าง - change the verb to be adverb

มี and เป็น - verb (which make it can be changed to be adverb by adding อย่าง in front of the word. It can't be just อย่างสุข)

อย่างเป็นสุข - happily

อย่างมีความสุข - happily

ก่อนสงครามประชาชนอย่างเป็นสุข (I would use this as - Before the war the people were happy) but it is bigger than ความสุข in that it includes like peace and quiet as well. IMO

compared to

ก่อนสงครามประชาชนอย่างมีความสุข (Before the war all the people had happiness) I would use this as just happiness.

ITR, I agree with your explanation. They might sound like the same but if consider about it deeply, it's exactly right as ITR's assumption.

[In the Rai!]

ITR, just one small thing: ก่อนสงครามประชาชนอย่างมีความสุข should be ก่อนสงครามประชาชนยังมีความสุข

อย่างมีความสุข means 'happily' - อย่าง transforms the verb phrase to an adverb, whereas ยัง means 'still'.

You could use that construction in 'Before the war, the people lived happily together' which would be ก่อนสงครามประชาชนยังอยู่ด้วยกันอย่างมีความสุข

Meadish I forgot to put ก่อนสงครามประชาชนอยู่อย่างมีความสุข

I like your example ยังอยู่ด้วยกันอย่างมีความสุข cheers

nice

[glenbat]

I have the word แม่ meaning mum or mother (informal i think) and would like to add some wording to say something like 'love to mother' or 'always love mother'.. any suggestions?

Im planning a tattoo and the แม่ just isnt long enough!

Many thanks in advance

Edited February 4, 2007 by glenbat

[yoot]

I have the word แม่ meaning mum or mother (informal i think) and would like to add some wording to say something like 'love to mother' or 'always love mother'.. any suggestions?

Im planning a tattoo and the แม่ just isnt long enough!

Many thanks in advance

'love to mother' - รักแด่แม่

'always love mother' - รักแม่เสมอ

[meadish_sweetball]

'always love mother' - รักแม่เสมอ

Sounds good!

[In the Rai!]

Here is a good one that I like and hope I will get to see other examples of how others use it in a sentence.

ยับยั้งใจ = I always used this as "will power" or "resist" or "hold back" or "cant stop myself"

Example of how I use it. If you are eating a lot and people are laughing because you cant stop, you can say ยับยั้งใจไม่ได้ I cant stop/ I cant resist or I have no will power.

In a sentence I have only ever used it in a negative way and would love to see some positive sentences.

เสนห์ = charm

ดึงดูดใจ = attractive

จน = until

ไม่สามารถ = unable

ยับยั้งใจ = will power / resist / hold back

ผมมี่เสนห์ดึงดูดใจเมียมากจนเมียไม่สามารถยับยั้งใจไม่ให้ชอบผมได้

pom mi senay doong duut jai mia mark jon mia mai samart yab yang jai mai hai chob pom dai.

(My wife is attracted to my charm and she is unable to resist liking me.) If only it was true...

So as you can see by the highlighted bit, it is used in a negative way.

Does anyone use it differently and could share their own ways of using it.

cheers ITR

[loong]

I have the word แม่ meaning mum or mother (informal i think) and would like to add some wording to say something like 'love to mother' or 'always love mother'.. any suggestions?

Im planning a tattoo and the แม่ just isnt long enough!

Many thanks in advance

'love to mother' - รักแด่แม่

'always love mother' - รักแม่เสมอ

'love to mother' - รักแด่แม่

This would surely imply that you only love your Mother, ie you do not Love your Father.

'always love mother' -รักแม่เสมอ

This from advice by a Thai friend is perfect!

[yoot]

'love to mother' - รักแด่แม่

This would surely imply that you only love your Mother, ie you do not Love your Father.

I think you misunderstand the meaning of this word 'แด่' , it's not 'แต่'

'แด่' means toward, for, to. It's used with the one we respect including friends and lover.

[loong]

'love to mother' - รักแด่แม่

This would surely imply that you only love your Mother, ie you do not Love your Father.

I think you misunderstand the meaning of this word 'แด่' , it's not 'แต่'

'แด่' means toward, for, to. It's used with the one we respect including friends and lover.

Oops, sorry about that. I did read it wrong I have to get some new glasses, specially for the computer. Meadish has already posted how to make the Thai font larger and easier to read, but I didn't do it this time.

Mind you, if he has รักแด่แม่ tatooed, he'd better make sure that it is easy to read.

Once again, sorry for my lazy reading.

[meadish_sweetball]

Mind you, if he has รักแด่แม่ tatooed, he'd better make sure that it is easy to read.

Yes, will have to keep working at those muscles so as to not get wrinkly, lest the ด become a ต

[glenbat]

'love to mother' - รักแด่แม่

'always love mother' - รักแม่เสมอ

Thanks for those , so either would be ok? Was a little worried my choice of wording may come across as unappropriate in some parts of thailand? didnt want anything remotely incestuous

Thanks again

[meadish_sweetball]

Both are ok, but รักแม่เสมอ sounds better to me.

[In the Rai!]

Just wondering if anyone had any other ways of using this below...

Here is a good one that I like and hope I will get to see other examples of how others use it in a sentence.

ยับยั้งใจ = I always used this as "will power" or "resist" or "hold back" or "cant stop myself"

Example of how I use it. If you are eating a lot and people are laughing because you cant stop, you can say ยับยั้งใจไม่ได้ I cant stop/ I cant resist or I have no will power.

In a sentence I have only ever used it in a negative way and would love to see some positive sentences.

เสนห์ = charm

ดึงดูดใจ = attractive

จน = until

ไม่สามารถ = unable

ยับยั้งใจ = will power / resist / hold back

ผมมี่เสนห์ดึงดูดใจเมียมากจนเมียไม่สามารถยับยั้งใจไม่ให้ชอบผมได้

pom mi senay doong duut jai mia mark jon mia mai samart yab yang jai mai hai chob pom dai.

(My wife is attracted to my charm and she is unable to resist liking me.) If only it was true...

So as you can see by the highlighted bit, it is used in a negative way.

Does anyone use it differently and could share their own ways of using it.

cheers ITR

[loong]

ี มีเสน่ห์ another rare occasion where the phonetic is wrong in Thai2English

ผมมีเสน่ห์ดึงดูดใจเมียมากจนเมียไม่สามารถยับยั้งใจไม่ให้ชอบผมได้

I read this as your wife cannot resist disliking you! Have I misunderstood?? I see a double negative.

ไม่ สามารถ ยับยั้ง ใจ ................. ได้ is unable to resist

....................... ไม่ ให้ ชอบ ผม .... dislike me

Sorry if I've missed something

Edited February 13, 2007 by loong