EU to offer May hope of post-Brexit talks at summit - draft text

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EU to offer May hope of post-Brexit talks at summit - draft text

By Alastair Macdonald and Gabriela Baczynska

 

FILE PHOTO: Britain's Prime Minister Theresa May greets Donald Tusk, President of the European Council, outside Downing Street in London, September 26, 2017. REUTERS/Hannah McKay

 

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - European Union leaders could hand Theresa May an olive branch in deadlocked Brexit negotiations next week by launching their own internal preparations for a transition to a new relationship with Britain.

 

Draft conclusions submitted by summit chair Donald Tusk to the 27 other EU governments made final Brussels' rejection of opening free trade talks now. But they also but gave the beleaguered British prime minister hope that they would do so in December -- and that, if she ups her offers on divorce terms, the EU will be ready to start talking almost right away.

 

With nerves fraying and threats flying about walking out without a deal come the March 2019 deadline for departure, the pound took a knock when EU negotiator Michel Barnier said a new round of talks this week had ended in continued deadlock over a British refusal to clarify how much it will pay on leaving.

 

But it rallied on word that, despite tough demands from EU governments on what they want from London, the Union is ready to talk about how to avoid a "hard Brexit" and to ease Britain out with less disruption -- probably by agreeing to keep it in the single market for a couple of years, diplomats say.

 

The draft of conclusions which would be issued by leaders of the 27 next Friday, a day after meeting May in a full EU summit, still have to be agreed. Envoys, including from heavyweights Germany and France, objected last week to a suggestion from Barnier that the EU should start working on transition plans.

 

But EU officials noted that Tusk, the European Council president, has sounded out most national leaders in recent days -- he briefed May by on his preparations on Thursday.

 

A senior EU official closely involved in the negotiations said Brussels did not expect major changes to the summit text.

 

A diplomat from one big country said only that the text would be discussed by national envoys in Brussels on Friday.

 

"INTERNAL PREPARATORY DISCUSSIONS"

 

The first version, seen by Reuters, confirms what Barnier and others have said this month: that there is not "sufficient progress" on agreeing three key elements of a withdrawal treaty for leaders to agree now to open the trade talks May wants.

 

But in an effort to defuse accusations in Britain about EU intransigence, the leaders would welcome progress to date on their three key issues: the rights of 3 million EU citizens in Britain; protecting peace in Northern Ireland from the effect of a new border on the island; and Britain's outstanding payments.

 

They would pledge to reassess things at their next summit in mid-December -- Barnier on Thursday spoke of making progress in the next two months. And in order not to waste time once they do decide to launch talks on a post-Brexit future, they would ask Barnier and their envoys to start preparing now for a transition -- albeit without actually starting talking to Britain about it.

 

"The European Council invites the Council (Article 50) together with the Union negotiator to start internal preparatory discussions," the draft read. Another EU official said that would avoid weeks of delay in launching a new phase by the new year -- which business leaders say is vital if they are to make informed investment decisions in 2018 for the time after Brexit.

 

Without a good idea by early next year of what a transition period will look like, international businesses in Britain would start to "vote with their feet" and move operations to the continent for fear of a "hard Brexit", some have warned.

 

The uncertain grip May, who campaigned last year against Brexit, has over her party and hardliners demanding she resist EU demands and be ready to walk out with no deal, has left Europeans unsure of where negotiations may lead. The gesture to May reflects some willingness to help reinforce her in office.

 

"DEADLOCK" OVER MONEY

 

Barnier and his British counterpart, Brexit Secretary David Davis, told reporters there had been some progress this week on citizens' rights and the Irish border question. Davis renewed his call for EU leaders to give a green light to trade talks next week but that has long been a forlorn hope.

 

Barnier made clear that despite new momentum from May's concessions in a speech at Florence last month, British proposals still failed the "sufficient progress" test, notably on tens of billions of euros the EU says London owes.

 

May said Britain would ensure the other 27 countries did not lose out financially from Brexit in the current EU budget period to 2020 and would honour commitments -- but Barnier said London was failing to spell out just what it was ready to pay.

 

"There was no negotiation on this, but we did have technical discussions which were useful," he said. "We are, therefore, at a deadlock on this question. This is extremely worrying for European taxpayers and those who benefit from EU policies."

 

Nonetheless, he offered hope: "I am still convinced that, with political will, decisive progress is within reach in the coming two months. With David Davis, we will organise several negotiating meetings between now and the end of the year."

 

May herself said there had been "good progress" and welcomed Barnier's talk of further progress "over the coming weeks".

 

(Additional reporting by Philip Blenkinsop; Writing by Alastair Macdonald; Editing by Toby Chopra and Lisa Shumaker)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-10-13

[nauseus]

Looks like money talks.

 

[Baerboxer]

35 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Looks like money talks.

 

 

The EU will push and push for more and more to get the most they can squeeze out. Not just as a 'warning" to others who might be thinking of leaving but also because the few that will have to make up the contributions deficit are pissed about it. 

 

Nothing to do with what is actually owed. And let's not forget, any money paid also means UK is entitled to the benefits and its share of assets.

 

Tusk is seemingly a decent fair minded person though. But I pity him with some of the people he has to deal with who are anything but.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Baerboxer

[melvinmelvin]

 

D Davis: can we talk trade, please

Barnier: no, we can not, we are at a deadlock

PM May: good progress

 

me; not impressed

 

[dunroaming]

3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

D Davis: can we talk trade, please

Barnier: no, we can not, we are at a deadlock

PM May: good progress

 

me; not impressed

 

We just have to wait now until December and I think then the picture will be clearer.  Britain will not walk away without a deal and nobody (on either side) want that. I expect that the brinkmanship has now been exhausted and both sides have to knuckle down and make some progress.  If that doesn't happen then I believe there will be a leadership challenge and a change of horses.

[dick dasterdly]

Too little, too late.

 

We all know (?) the vast majority of MPs voted to remain.
 

We also all know (?) that the EU has made it v clear that it has no interest in negotiating - only dictating.

 

It's beginning to change its tune according to this article, so presumably they too are beginning to realise that their intransigence is annoying the UK populace, increasing the risk that the UK govt. will HAVE to state 'we're leaving at the end of the 2 year notice period without paying anything more into the EU'.

 

Worst case scenario for both 'sides' - but businesses will have time to prepare and the uncertainty will end. 

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

Too little, too late.

 

We all know (?) the vast majority of MPs voted to remain.
 

We also all know (?) that the EU has made it v clear that it has no interest in negotiating - only dictating.

 

It's beginning to change its tune according to this article, so presumably they too are beginning to realise that their intransigence is annoying the UK populace, increasing the risk that the UK govt. will HAVE to state 'we're leaving at the end of the 2 year notice period without paying anything more into the EU'.

 

Worst case scenario for both 'sides' - but businesses will have time to prepare and the uncertainty will end. 

I still cannot see the UK walking away without a deal.  I believe that the UK will agree a figure  but Northern Ireland is tricky if they keep the Good Friday agreement as they are pledging to do.  An integral part of that is being in the single market and customs agreement and that is an obvious stumbling block.  The EU citizens issues should be more straightforward but as always the devil is in the detail.

[Grouse]

See Oct 5 "Robin Day's Question Time". Great stuff, strong women, Northern folk!

[dunroaming]

10 minutes ago, Grouse said:

See Oct 5 "Robin Day's Question Time". Great stuff, strong women, Northern folk!

Robin Day's question time?  October 5th?  What year are we talking about?

 

 

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, dunroaming said:

Robin Day's question time?  October 5th?  What year are we talking about?

 

 

Ha! Indeed! 2017

[dunroaming]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Ha! Indeed! 2017

Sorry to be vague but is that the TV question time (6th October from Neath) or the radio version?

[Laughing Gravy]

 

If you like debates even on the biased BBC, then this one is more realistic. This was in July 2017.

 

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

 

If you like debates even on the biased BBC, then this one is more realistic. This was in July 2017.

 

Every time I hear Farage I tend to fall about laughing even though he is the non funniest joke on the planet. 

Edited October 13, 2017 by dunroaming

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Every time I hear Farage I tend to fall about laughing even though he is the non funniest joke on the planet. 

I have just checked with Nigel and he says the feeling is mutual. 

[Laughing Gravy]

16 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Every time I hear Farage I tend to fall about laughing even though he is the non funniest joke on the planet. 

I understand. One day you will get it and realize that this man spoke the truth against the EU. He was ridiculed by the media but nobody could really argue against what he said. As it was the truth. The sheeple didn't get it and continually barrrrgy against what he said. Until it was too late.

 

 

[citybiker]

Hasn’t Junker just stated that no Brexit trade talks until the U.K. confirm/clarify payment?*

Interesting, so the EU move the goalposts as & when they see fit or meets they’re own agenda.

*various news media outlets.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[oxo1947]

And today of all days.............

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, dunroaming said:

Sorry to be vague but is that the TV question time (6th October from Neath) or the radio version?

TV. Question Time

[taipeir]

I understand. One day you will get it and realize that this man spoke the truth against the EU. He was ridiculed by the media but nobody could really argue against what he said. As it was the truth. The sheeple didn't get it and continually barrrrgy against what he said. Until it was too late.
 
 

The sheeple are being driven over the Brexit cliff looking at their rapidly eroding living quality and wondering where it all went wrong.

Believing in soundbites and old empire talk from well finance millionaires and public school toffs.

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[taipeir]

Hasn’t Junker just stated that no Brexit trade talks until the U.K. confirm/clarify payment?*

 

Interesting, so the EU move the goalposts as & when they see fit or meets they’re own agenda.

 

*various news media outlets.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

No they stated their goalposts in their position paper six months ago!!

 

The 3 issues of EU budget contributions , Irish borders and rights of EU citizens in UK (and UK citizens in the EU) were VERY CLEARLY SIGNPOSTED as a precondition for entering post Brexit trade talks.

 

It is the the UK government which is flailing around like a beached whale wasting time.

 

Now the Tory hard core are rushing to no deal Brexit in a desperate effort to blame it on any body but themselves.

 

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

[citybiker]

No they stated their goalposts in their position paper six months ago!! 
The 3 issues of EU budget contributions , Irish borders and rights of EU citizens in UK (and UK citizens in the EU) were VERY CLEARLY SIGNPOSTED as a precondition for entering post Brexit trade talks.
 
It is the the UK government which is flailing around like a beached whale wasting time.
 
Now the Tory hard core are rushing to no deal Brexit in a desperate effort to blame it on any body but themselves.
 
Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk
 
 
 

Nobody is “rushing for a no deal Brexit”.

Clean Brexit preparing, big difference.

Remember, the EU will also lose if this political poker continues.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ilostmypassword]

3 hours ago, citybiker said:

Nobody is “rushing for a no deal Brexit”.

Clean Brexit preparing, big difference.

Remember, the EU will also lose if this political poker continues.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The EU doesn't deny it will lose. But the problem for the UK is that it stands to lose a lot more.

[Grouse]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/how-brexit-could-be-stopped-a-step-by-step-guide-a8000481.html

 

obvious really....

[citybiker]

The EU doesn't deny it will lose. But the problem for the UK is that it stands to lose a lot more.

I suspect the U.K. will eventually gain more than lose.

The EU is only interested in two primary issues:

Money & authority.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ilostmypassword]

9 minutes ago, citybiker said:

I suspect the U.K. will eventually gain more than lose.

The EU is only interested in two primary issues:

Money & authority.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Because trade with its closest markets will be more expensive and more restricted? If anything is suspect here, it's your expectation.

[Khun Han]

16 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Because trade with its closest markets will be more expensive and more restricted? If anything is suspect here, it's your expectation.

 

Because, once we are free to do so, we will be negotiating trade deals with the rest of the world on direct terms, not the EU's terms. This will cut huge amounts of red tape and price fixing, not to mention the UK being able to decide what it produces, when it produces it and where it produces it. And not to mention also, that we will be able to  buy most of the products we are currently obliged to buy from the EU (especially food products) cheaper elsewhere.

[citybiker]

Because trade with its closest markets will be more expensive and more restricted? If anything is suspect here, it's your expectation.

More expensive & restricted? Being closest isn’t always best option, nor viable if another can manufacturer/supplier, transit with less overheads.

I guess that’s where global competition has a factor, without the EU red tape ‘all’ EU companies have to adhere to.

Direct global trade opens up many newly negotiated trade opportunities.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[taipeir]

More expensive & restricted? Being closest isn’t always best option, nor viable if another can manufacturer/supplier, transit with less overheads.

I guess that’s where global competition has a factor, without the EU red tape ‘all’ EU companies have to adhere to.

Direct global trade opens up many newly negotiated trade opportunities.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Such as?

Explain!

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

[ilostmypassword]

43 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Because, once we are free to do so, we will be negotiating trade deals with the rest of the world on direct terms, not the EU's terms. This will cut huge amounts of red tape and price fixing, not to mention the UK being able to decide what it produces, when it produces it and where it produces it. And not to mention also, that we will be able to  buy most of the products we are currently obliged to buy from the EU (especially food products) cheaper elsewhere.

Did it ever occur to you that the UK might actually be in a weaker position?  What's in it for your potential new partners to give the UK terms more advantageous than it would enjoy as a member of the EU? Has it ever occurred to you that given the relative size and economic clout of the EU vs the UK that other countries might actually be reluctant to give the UK better terms? That they might not want to piss off the huge economy represented by the EU? In other words, what's in it for them? What will they gain vs. what will they lose? You really should at least try to consider the question from your prospective new trading partners' point of view. I guess you won't, though, because if you seriously do, you'll find the view from there isn't nearly so rosy as you believe.

[ilostmypassword]

48 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

Because, once we are free to do so, we will be negotiating trade deals with the rest of the world on direct terms, not the EU's terms. This will cut huge amounts of red tape and price fixing, not to mention the UK being able to decide what it produces, when it produces it and where it produces it. And not to mention also, that we will be able to  buy most of the products we are currently obliged to buy from the EU (especially food products) cheaper elsewhere.

Did it ever occur to you that the UK might actually be in a weaker position?  What's in it for your potential new partners to give the UK terms more advantageous than it would enjoy as a member of the EU? Has it ever occurred to you that given the relative size and economic clout of the EU vs the UK that other countries might actually be reluctant to give the UK better terms? That they might not want to piss off the huge economy represented by the EU? In other words, what's in it for them? What will they gain vs. what will they lose? You really should at least try to consider the question from your prospective new trading partners' point of view. I guess you won't, though, because if you seriously do, you'll find the view from there isn't nearly so rosy as you believe.