Blacklist? Urgent and desperate need to know if I can cruise to Phuket without disembarking

[Circles]

Dear all, 

I was stopped at customs 12 years ago when I attempted to go back to home country from Bangkok. Apparently, when I was given a free trip to Bangkok by a friend with a ticket that transits in Bangkok to go to Japan, he took my boarding pass and gave to a Chinese lady to board with a fake passport bearing my name n details but with her picture. I was forced to sign a document that I remembered the officer said I'm barred from entry for 100 years, after I was kept in Bangkok Detention Center for around 8 days, then deported.

there was no court proceedings, warrants or anything. I was not given a chance to speak to a lawyer, was told if I do not sign this document, I will be kept forever. 

Local authorities launched an investigation for around a year and cleared me and returned my passport. I have never attempted to enter Thailand since then and let the matter bury.

Fast forward 12 years, I am now given an incentive trip by company for a short cruise and one of the port of call is Phuket. 

Arrives morning and depart in the evening. 

I accepted happily thinking if I don't disembark, nothing will happen.

In the last few days, a Friend actually heard about my trip and told me all the passports will still be sent for clearance and I'm already in thai waters, this might constitute an illegal attempt into Thailand already though there is no attempt to disembark. 

I'm scared and desperate now, I do not know who I can go to for an afimative answer and I stumbled on this blog. The cruise is happening on coming Monday 16 Oct. 

my old passport number is our National Identity Number and there is a chop on it which I have attached here in the post. 

The new passport is another number since our country changed to biometric system but our national id number is still in the new passport, also in the code of numbers at the bottom of the page. 

Will anyone here be able to help me please? Is there anything I can do to be sure I will not get into trouble in Phuket even if I stay on board? I have also paid to bring my family with me and now I am horribly stuck...

Please please help....

thank you...

desperate mother 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Circles
To be specific

[Eff1n2ret]

It is probably the case that the passenger manifest will be submitted to Thai Immigration and your name will come up as a previous deportee. However, if you don't attempt to disembark, probably the worst that will happen is that they refuse you entry and direct the Captain to keep you on board until the ship departs - so I wouldn't worry too much. Perhaps as well to speak to the Purser before you get to Phuket and make it clear that you don't want to go ashore there. I was an Immigration Officer and dealt with such matters at UK seaports for a number of years.

[ubonjoe]

The only thing I see on what you posted is a denial of entry under section 12 (7) of the immigration act.

Quote

7. Having behavior which would indicated possible danger to the public or likelihood of being a
nuisance or constituting any violence to the peace or safety of the public or to the security of the public or
to the security of the nation , or being under warrant of arrest by competent officials of foreign
governments.

Since you can stay aboard the ship I can see no reason for you having a problem. You might even want to try entering the country. All they can do is deny entry and then you would be allowed to return to the ship.

[tomwct]

Did the Thai police arrest your friend for arranging the fake passport in your name for the Chinese Lady? Did you file charges against your friend.Tell us more about your friend and what happened! This is interesting!

[Circles]

Dear Eff1n2ret:

thank you so much to your prompt help. 

I was told by the same Friend (she works as a cruise sales agent) that 4 years ago, a person, a similar case happened. The customer did not disembark from ship but the Thai Customs disembarked her and kept her in Phuket for 3 days, claiming there is no return ticket available. According to my Friend, this person is also blacklisted. 

I checked with Royal Carribean and they said that the customs officers come on board to do clearance and they cannot interfere with the jurisdiction of local authorities, I.e, they cannot prevent me from being taken away. 

I am trying to read the Immigration act 2522 in English and it's really Super hard. 

Also I don't understand what it says on the chop of my passport and document. 

???

 

11 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:

It is probably the case that the passenger manifest will be submitted to Thai Immigration and your name will come up as a previous deportee. However, if you don't attempt to disembark, probably the worst that will happen is that they refuse you entry and direct the Captain to keep you on board until the ship departs - so I wouldn't worry too much. Perhaps as well to speak to the Purser before you get to Phuket and make it clear that you don't want to go ashore there. I was an Immigration Officer and dealt with such matters at UK seaports for a number of years.

 

[Circles]

7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The only thing I see on what you posted is a denial of entry under section 12 (7) of the immigration act.

Since you can stay aboard the ship I can see no reason for you having a problem. You might even want to try entering the country. All they can do is deny entry and then you would be allowed to return to the ship.

Dear Urbanjoe, 

thank you for reply, do you understand thai? 

There are 2 papers here, it's terribly faded but incase you can read it, even barely, may be able to help advise better? 

The funny thing I only noticed now after so many years, is that the Thai used recycled paper to print these out, I remembered the print was already very light when I was forced to sign...

Thank you. 

[Circles]

10 minutes ago, tomwct said:

Did the Thai police arrest your friend for arranging the fake passport in your name for the Chinese Lady? Did you file charges against your friend.Tell us more about your friend and what happened! This is interesting!

Dear Tomwct, 

 

Not that I know. This friend disappeared after I tried to call him from the airport detention office. 

No I did not file any charges, I was only relieved to be back home and I was also going through the investigation from my home authorities..

[Eff1n2ret]

31 minutes ago, Circles said:

I checked with Royal Carribean and they said that the customs officers come on board to do clearance and they cannot interfere with the jurisdiction of local authorities, I.e, they cannot prevent me from being taken away

That is of course correct. 

I can't understand, however, why they would want to disembark someone and detain them when they do not intend to enter the country and are booked to travel to a further destination. The refusal of entry would be a paper exercise which would count towards the statistics justifying their existence without involving them in any further work.

If what happened to your friend's customer is their normal procedure, then I regret my previous advice doesn't count for much - except perhaps speak to the Purser and make it clear that you will co-operate with your "detention on board."

Edited October 13, 2017 by Eff1n2ret

[ubonjoe]

12 minutes ago, Circles said:

There are 2 papers here, it's terribly faded but incase you can read it, even barely, may be able to help advise better? 

That is an acknowledgement that you received the  form and a notice that your visa/entry was revoked.

[Circles]

22 minutes ago, Eff1n2ret said:

That is of course correct. 

I can't understand, however, why they would want to disembark someone and detain them when they do not intend to enter the country and are booked to travel to a further destination. The refusal of entry would be a paper exercise which would count towards the statistics justifying their existence without involving them in any further work.

If what happened to your friend's customer is their normal procedure, then I regret my previous advice doesn't count for much.

Dear Eff1n2ret,

thank you for kind explanation and your honest views, I guess I have to announce to the family for the non holiday...also in such a short time, I don't think I have much chance to get a definite yes or no to my question..,

thank you again...

[Circles]

7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is an acknowledgement that you received the  form and a notice that your visa/entry was revoked.

Dear Urbanjoe, 

thank you very much for kind attention to these documents 

in short 

- I'm blacklisted and I cannot enter

- because of the blacklist and the retention of the national identification number, once the customs swiped my new passport, the details will pop up and matched the manifest though it was 12 years ago 

- I will be considered illegally trying to attempt entrance as I'm already in thai waters and I maybe forced to disembark and be kept by the Thai police at their mercy...

 

Looks like I shouldn't take this risk at all as the odds against me become clearer...

 

thank you again 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Circles said:

I'm blacklisted and I cannot enter

Not sure about that. The stamps and forms do not confirm that.

 

4 minutes ago, Circles said:

because of the blacklist and the retention of the national identification number, once the customs swiped my new passport, the details will pop up and matched the manifest though it was 12 years ago 

- I will be considered illegally trying to attempt entrance as I'm already in thai waters and I maybe forced to disembark and be kept by the Thai police at their mercy...

Your passports may be linked if you try to enter the country.

I don't think you would be forced to leave the boat. The only way they might do that would be if you were wanted for a crime committed here or elsewhere.

What they do at airports is deny you entry and send you to detention at the airport until you have a flight out of the country arranged and then depart the country.

[Circles]

11 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure about that. The stamps and forms do not confirm that.

 

Your passports may be linked if you try to enter the country.

I don't think you would be forced to leave the boat. The only way they might do that would be if you were wanted for a crime committed here or elsewhere.

What they do at airports is deny you entry and send you to detention at the airport until you have a flight out of the country arranged and then depart the country.

Dear Urbanjoe,

thank you very much for all your interpretations and kind advice. 

Do you know how one can officially remove themselves from the blacklist? 

I was told to be very careful with looking for a Thai Lawyer as friends heard that the Lawyers would ask for full payment upfront and after sometime, either claimed that it's unsuccessful or worse tell you it's successful only to land the person in hot soup when they try to enter Thailand. 

 

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Circles said:

Do you know how one can officially remove themselves from the blacklist? 

The first step would be to confirm you are on the blacklist. This company can check with immigration to find out if you are blacklisted for a fee of 2000 to 3000 baht. http://www.thaivisaservice.com/  Your new and old passport numbers would be needed.

You can appeal the blacklisting. You would certainly need to use care when choosing a lawyer to do it.

[Circles]

28 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The first step would be to confirm you are on the blacklist. This company can check with immigration to find out if you are blacklisted for a fee of 2000 to 3000 baht. http://www.thaivisaservice.com/  Your new and old passport numbers would be needed.

You can appeal the blacklisting. You would certainly need to use care when choosing a lawyer to do it.

Dear Urbanjoe, 

tbank you! I clicked on the link and have sent them an email. 

Crossing my fingers and praying very hard they can check and give affirmative reply soonest...

will keep updates and thank you again! 

 

[FritsSikkink]

2 hours ago, Eff1n2ret said:

That is of course correct. 

I can't understand, however, why they would want to disembark someone and detain them when they do not intend to enter the country and are booked to travel to a further destination. The refusal of entry would be a paper exercise which would count towards the statistics justifying their existence without involving them in any further work.

If what happened to your friend's customer is their normal procedure, then I regret my previous advice doesn't count for much - except perhaps speak to the Purser and make it clear that you will co-operate with your "detention on board."

When the ship is in Thai waters you are in Thailand. They only have your word that you won't leave the ship, I wouldn't be so sure nothing would happen and ask a lawyer.

[Mattd]

The ship and all of those onboard will be required to clear in to Thailand, there is no way around that part.

The normal procedure for cruise ships is that Immigration will board the vessel at the port call prior to Thailand and carry out the clearances during the transit to the Thai port, depending on the vessel's route then they maybe onboard for up to 2 days, I'm guessing that the port prior to Phuket will possibly be Singapore?

As suggested, talk to the purser, it highly probable that the cruise line submit a passenger / crew list to the Thai Immigration some days in advance and therefore the checks are completed before the immigration officers boarding at the prior port to Phuket, if this is the case, then you will (should) have some advanced warning of whether or not you have an issue.

Otherwise, depending on the availability of efficient communications during the transit, then there is a small possibility that all of the passport clearances will be completed without any checks, then, upon arrival in to Phuket, immigration would depart the vessel and go to their office and enter the info into the database.

They do it this way to speed up the clearances, as some cruise ships can have upwards of 5,000 people onboard and are usually only in port for 12 hours or so, to do the immigration clearance upon arrival is just not practical.

Are you able to get off the vessel in the port prior to Thailand, then fly to the port that will be after Phuket and rejoin?

The issue the Thai authorities may have is guaranteeing that you will not disembark in Phuket, unless, perhaps, the Master gives some sort of guarantee of detaining you onboard.

There is always the possibility that they remove you from the vessel, place you in detention, then escort back to the vessel just prior to departure.

 

 

[Evilbaz]

I've been on cruise ship to Phuket.

If you want to disembark, you submit your passport the night before, book your choice of excursion, or free choice, and receive your passport back and stamped for entry on disembarking.

No stamp no disembarkation.

 

If you don't want to disembark, do nothing and stay on the ship, eat, drink and swim without crowds in the sanctuary of the ship's registered country - not Thai waters!.

 

Relax  - you think too much.

Enjoy the cruise - I did twice.

[Rv Hawee]

Make it simple and trouble free : don't come. Don't try ! If your company can't make sure you are able to  just stay on ship at Phuket  stop then don't  play with fire.

[Mattd]

21 minutes ago, Evilbaz said:

If you don't want to disembark, do nothing and stay on the ship, eat, drink and swim without crowds in the sanctuary of the ship's registered country - not Thai waters!.

That is not strictly correct, for the vessel to enter in to port it will require inward port clearance, which will also involve clearance of the persons onboard, I am 99% sure that this clearance is done via the ship's agents submitting all of the statutory and class certification, plus a crew list in advance, the fact that you give or do not give your passport is irrelevant to this clearance and this is where it is most likely to pick up the blacklist.

The fact that the vessel is in port means that is is cleared in to the country and the crew / passengers can freely get on or off the ship.

 

When you disembarked or boarded in Thailand, then did anybody ever physically check your passport apart from when it was stamped the night before?

 

A good example of this is India, whereby any country requiring a visa would need to get this visa before boarding the ship whether or not they intend on actually getting off the ship, if there are two Indian port calls, then a ME visa is required, sounds daft, but it is true.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Mattd

[FritsSikkink]

18 minutes ago, Evilbaz said:

I've been on cruise ship to Phuket.

If you want to disembark, you submit your passport the night before, book your choice of excursion, or free choice, and receive your passport back and stamped for entry on disembarking.

No stamp no disembarkation.

 

If you don't want to disembark, do nothing and stay on the ship, eat, drink and swim without crowds in the sanctuary of the ship's registered country - not Thai waters!.

 

Relax  - you think too much.

Enjoy the cruise - I did twice.

"in the sanctuary of the ship's registered country - not Thai waters!."

Nonsense, you are in Thai waters and they can arrest you if they want to.

[Mattd]

1 minute ago, FritsSikkink said:

"in the sanctuary of the ship's registered country - not Thai waters!."

Nonsense, you are in Thai waters and they can arrest you if they want to.

Absolutely correct

Edited October 13, 2017 by Mattd

[Aditi Sharma]

3 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

"in the sanctuary of the ship's registered country - not Thai waters!."

Nonsense, you are in Thai waters and they can arrest you if they want to.

I think they wont because she has said she wont be getting off. Plus can they enter the ship without the Captain's permission?

[Evilbaz]

10 minutes ago, Mattd said:

That is not strictly correct, for the vessel to enter in to port it will require inward port clearance, which will also involve clearance of the persons onboard, I am 99% sure that this clearance is done via the ship's agents submitting all of the statutory and class certification, plus a crew list in advance, the fact that you give or do not give your passport is irrelevant to this clearance and this is where it is most likely to pick up the blacklist.

The fact that the vessel is in port means that is is cleared in to the country and the crew / passengers can freely get on or off the ship.

Rubbish - you need an entry stamp to disembark in Phuket.

You have to actively apply for it via submitting your passport to the Purser.

I've done this - have You?

The Ship is in Thai waters but you are not unless you leave the sanctuary of the Ship (which many choose not to do).

 

This is not a boat where different rules no doubt apply.

Stop scaring the lady unnecessarily.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Evilbaz

[Aditi Sharma]

Plus I want to know in the event that she is arrested by the Thai police, will her family be arrested as well?

[FritsSikkink]

4 minutes ago, Evilbaz said:

Rubbish - you need an entry stamp to disembark in Phuket.

You have to actively apply for it via submitting your passport to the Purser.

I've done this - have You?

The Ship is in Thai waters but you are not unless you leave the sanctuary of the Ship (which many choose not to do).

There is no such thing as the sanctuary of the Ship. It isn't an Embassy. 

[ravip]

9 minutes ago, Aditi Sharma said:

I think they wont because she has said she wont be getting off. Plus can they enter the ship without the Captain's permission?

A Captain cannot restrict the authorities from boarding the vessel once in territorial waters.

 

[Mattd]

23 minutes ago, Evilbaz said:

Rubbish - you need an entry stamp to disembark in Phuket.

You have to actively apply for it via submitting your passport to the Purser.

I've done this - have You?

The Ship is in Thai waters but you are not unless you leave the sanctuary of the Ship (which many choose not to do).

I've worked and still do, in International Shipping for over 30 years and I absolutely guarantee this is not rubbish, the vessel will almost certainly be pre-cleared in to the port, the logistics of not doing this are very clear to see, the physical stamping of the passports is only a SMALL part of a vessel's inward and outward clearance, there is a lot more to it than just that.

As I have stated, the ship's agents will have submitted all of the certification and documentation to the port authority in advance of the vessel arriving in to port, there are bunch of IMO FAL forms to send in, one of these is a passenger list, which has details of the passengers, including full name, nationality passport number and date and place of of birth, this is what will be used to pre-clear the folks onboard prior to the physical boarding of immigration at latest the night before the arrival.

http://www.imo.org/en/OurWork/Facilitation/FormsCertificates/Pages/Default.aspx

 

The vessel may be foreign flagged, but it can be boarded by the Thai authorities for whatever reason they like, port state control inspection, customs inspection etc. etc. and is not a sanctuary for illegals.

 

Liken it to a foreign registered car that was in Thailand!

 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Mattd
Change of list

[Aditi Sharma]

I think OP ought to have got the message. It's her call now.  Might consider the below-quoted idea, it's brilliant! Hope her family members are carrying mobile phones. 

2 hours ago, Mattd said:

Are you able to get off the vessel in the port prior to Thailand, then fly to the port that will be after Phuket and rejoin?

 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Aditi Sharma
edit

[Evilbaz]

So this differs to a person in transit at a foreign airport?

How?

The car example has entered Tha-Land.