Thai road safety: Green light given for police to spend half a billion baht on radar guns

[noahvail]

On 10/20/2017 at 8:42 AM, Cadbury said:

In every sense of the meaning.

I see them advertised in the US for around 25,000 THB and allegedly at police quality. Big difference between that and nearly 675,000 THB. And they have the audacity to claim to have removed the corruption factor. 

 https://www.radargunsales.com/product/traffic-enforcement-police-radar-guns/genesis-handheld-directional-2/

This is what my friend in Washington State uses in his patrol vehicle. A very reasonable unit, he tells me. Just over ฿20,000, https://www.radarguns.com/decatur-genesis-handheld-directional-police-radar-gun-w-antenna-corded-cigarette-lighter-adapter.html

[Jonah Tenner]

On 20.10.2017 at 8:52 AM, 4MyEgo said:

Just wondering if radar detectors are illegal in this country, because I knew years ago when the radars were in, we would outsmart the cops with radar detectors, i.e. they would beep beep beep when a radar was in sight, providing us enough time to slow down.

At the price quoted I would expect it to be laser guns, not radar, computer controlled wit wifi uplink to police vehicle and internet uplink to storage device in police station.

[SpicyMeatball]

The government said that the radar guns were to help with road safety and would prevent accidents.

 

Of course they will.

No in depth driver/road safety training or common sense needed.

The radar guns will do it all.

[Jonah Tenner]

14 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

I'm guessing you are correct about speeding. It is very common for police to suggest "speed" was a factor in crashes. 

Of course speed was a factor, after all the vehicle was moving.

If it had been standing still, nothing would have happened.

[wakeupplease]

The only thing that would help the bib is if there was a weather change, too bloody hot to work, so where is the shade. O and a bit of honesty

[Denim]

On 20/10/2017 at 8:53 AM, Thailand said:

They can also detect bombs, overpriced lottery tickets,, and cigarette butts hiden in the sand and come fully equiped with brown envelopes.

Yes......but what about STD's ?

 

If they could do that they would fly off the shelves before you could say

' mind if I zap you love ?'

[Jonmarleesco]

On 10/20/2017 at 8:17 AM, webfact said:

Speeding motorists better watch out - Thailand is spending more than half a billion baht to equip its police with hand held radar guns.

I should be concerned if I was confident that the RTP would actually enforce the law; though if it doesn't involve too much hassle, they just might.

[Destiny1990]

Maybe first install max speeds signs at all the roads. 50/70/90/130?

[wow64]

They have this down to a fine art.. 

 

The purchase of the device.. money for the boys in brown. what device can we get the most money from motorists with.. more money for the boys in brown.

 

Thailand the hub of corruption.

Edited October 22, 2017 by wow64

[Airbagwill]

On 10/21/2017 at 8:18 AM, manarak said:

thailand should spend money on cars equipped with cameras to crack down on reckless driving.

Wrong end of the stick - video is a notoriously bad way ofpresenting evidence - only the very gullible will swallow that - in many courts it is ruled as inadmissible.

 

All you need to do is look at the number ofvideos of police shootings that are thrown out in the USA.

Edited October 23, 2017 by Airbagwill

[Airbagwill]

On 10/21/2017 at 9:53 AM, lvr181 said:

Sounds good in theory but not all crashes are a result of speeding! It is purely revenue raising.

It is better to deter speeding by a police presence on the road. Why fine them after the 'event'? They may have caused a crash before ever reaching a speed camera.

My home country is full of fixed and hand held speed cameras yet the road toll still increases. I repeat - it is revenue raising! 

Which country is that?

[lvr181]

3 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Which country is that?

A modern western nation where sometimes bulls hit can still be pretty thick on the ground.  

 

But at least the road rule transgressors can challenge their ticket in a court of law. Unfortunately the old adage of "Innocent until proven guilty" does not apply to traffic violations. 

[attrayant]

1 hour ago, lvr181 said:

Unfortunately the old adage of "Innocent until proven guilty" does not apply to traffic violations. 

 

You are innocent, pending accusation by evidence (speed trap citation, photo of running red light, etc.).  At that point it's your choice to (1) confess by mailing in the fine or (2)  maintain your innocence by going to court and presenting your own evidence.  You are innocent until you confess or appear before a judge for their ruling.

[lvr181]

2 hours ago, attrayant said:

 

You are innocent, pending accusation by evidence (speed trap citation, photo of running red light, etc.).  At that point it's your choice to (1) confess by mailing in the fine or (2)  maintain your innocence by going to court and presenting your own evidence.  You are innocent until you confess or appear before a judge for their ruling.

The high cost of defence (taking the matter before the court) usually outweighs the cost of the 'alleged crime'. Easier to capitulate and cut your losses under the current system.

 

The matters should first be heard in court when the prosecution can put their case and you have the right to state your case in defense. That is "innocent until proven guilty" same as any major crime. 

 

Edited October 23, 2017 by lvr181
Additional wording

[Jonah Tenner]

4 hours ago, attrayant said:

 

You are innocent, pending accusation by evidence (speed trap citation, photo of running red light, etc.).  At that point it's your choice to (1) confess by mailing in the fine or (2)  maintain your innocence by going to court and presenting your own evidence.  You are innocent until you confess or appear before a judge for their ruling.

In an ideal word, where court costs are within the means of the common people.

In the real world this excludes all countries, as lawyers insist on getting paid...

(No pay, no cure)

Edited October 23, 2017 by Jonah Tenner

[manarak]

11 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Wrong end of the stick - video is a notoriously bad way ofpresenting evidence - only the very gullible will swallow that - in many courts it is ruled as inadmissible.

 

All you need to do is look at the number ofvideos of police shootings that are thrown out in the USA.

depends on what it is used to prove.

I think video is fine for proving abusive right or middle lane usage, driving the wrong way, overtaking on the left, jumping turn queues, failing to keep safety distance, illegal turns, illegal U-turns, turning from the wrong lane, overtaking on a road when there is opposite traffic, etc.

speed is a factor that makes the outcome of accidents worse, but by far it isn't the primary cause of all accidents.

If Thailand wants to improve road safety, it needs to crack down on bad driving habits, not just speed and alcohol.

[attrayant]

15 hours ago, lvr181 said:

The high cost of defence (taking the matter before the court) usually outweighs the cost of the 'alleged crime'. Easier to capitulate and cut your losses under the current system.

 

 

13 hours ago, Jonah Tenner said:

In an ideal word, where court costs are within the means of the common people.

In the real world this excludes all countries, as lawyers insist on getting paid.

 

Lawyers?  Aren't we talking about traffic offenses?  Who hires a lawyer to contest a speeding ticket? 

 

I've contested three vehicle related citations in my life and never even considered using a lawyer.  I won two of those times because (1) a no-turn sign was faded to the point where it couldn't be clearly seen, and (2) the second time was for speeding (robo-trap) but I asked for leniency because I was taking somebody to the emergency room (and had the ER bill to prove it) and had no prior record of traffic violations.  The third time I was just hoping that the officer wouldn't show up, but he did and I lost (although the judge said no points and I had to pay just the fine).  But I fail to see how a lawyer could have helped me in that case.

 

I could see some serious offenses like drunk driving or hit and run might call for legal assistance.  But in those cases the lawyer will probably be cheaper than the fines, jail time and almost certain increases in your insurance premiums.  Also, if there is the possibility you might go to jail for your offense, you are entitled to a public defender.

 

However unfair you think it might be that you have to spend time and effort (and sometimes money) to defend yourself, this has nothing to do with the presumption of guilt.

[YetAnother]

13 hours ago, manarak said:

If Thailand wants to improve road safety, it needs to crack down on bad driving habits, not just speed and alcohol.

agreed however i am not optimistic; i believe the root causes for bad thai driving are cultural, as reflected in today's thai society,; to wit, carelessness, lack of appreciation for law,order,safety, remarkable degree of self-centeredness; none of those can be addressed in any short term

[Ossy]

1 hour ago, attrayant said:

 

 

 

Lawyers?  Aren't we talking about traffic offenses?  Who hires a lawyer to contest a speeding ticket? 

 

I've contested three vehicle related citations in my life and never even considered using a lawyer.  I won two of those times because (1) a no-turn sign was faded to the point where it couldn't be clearly seen, and (2) the second time was for speeding (robo-trap) but I asked for leniency because I was taking somebody to the emergency room (and had the ER bill to prove it) and had no prior record of traffic violations.  The third time I was just hoping that the officer wouldn't show up, but he did and I lost (although the judge said no points and I had to pay just the fine).  But I fail to see how a lawyer could have helped me in that case.

 

I could see some serious offenses like drunk driving or hit and run might call for legal assistance.  But in those cases the lawyer will probably be cheaper than the fines, jail time and almost certain increases in your insurance premiums.  Also, if there is the possibility you might go to jail for your offense, you are entitled to a public defender.

 

However unfair you think it might be that you have to spend time and effort (and sometimes money) to defend yourself, this has nothing to do with the presumption of guilt.

Wouldn't language be a problem? I don't speak Thai and, sure as hell, the Judge won't speak English. Not one of 'those striding confidently into court, with your chest puffed out' situations, I fear.

[attrayant]

Granted my lecture was based on experience from back home.  I don't know what would happen here.  But as I previously said in closing, this does not mean you are presumed to be guilty.

[lvr181]

8 minutes ago, attrayant said:

Granted my lecture was based on experience from back home.  I don't know what would happen here.  But as I previously said in closing, this does not mean you are presumed to be guilty.

You are "presumed guilty" because you have been given the penalty/punishment! 

 

But we are talking Thailand here, so lets drop this one and move on.

[Airbagwill]

23 hours ago, attrayant said:

 

You are innocent, pending accusation by evidence (speed trap citation, photo of running red light, etc.).  At that point it's your choice to (1) confess by mailing in the fine or (2)  maintain your innocence by going to court and presenting your own evidence.  You are innocent until you confess or appear before a judge for their ruling.

A rather garbled observation ... "accused by evidence" .... Is that a thing? Which judicial system are you referring to?

Certainlt diesnt work like that in Thailand (or France) ... Not even sure it's meant to.

Edited October 24, 2017 by Airbagwill

[Airbagwill]

17 hours ago, manarak said:

depends on what it is used to prove.

I think video is fine for proving abusive right or middle lane usage, driving the wrong way, overtaking on the left, jumping turn queues, failing to keep safety distance, illegal turns, illegal U-turns, turning from the wrong lane, overtaking on a road when there is opposite traffic, etc.

speed is a factor that makes the outcome of accidents worse, but by far it isn't the primary cause of all accidents.

If Thailand wants to improve road safety, it needs to crack down on bad driving habits, not just speed and alcohol.

Just shows how little you understand about the moving image.

[metisdead]

Grammar police posts and replies have been removed.  Some other nonsense posts and replies have been removed as well. 

[manarak]

2 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Just shows how little you understand about the moving image.

maybe you can spread your science

[manarak]

7 hours ago, YetAnother said:

agreed however i am not optimistic; i believe the root causes for bad thai driving are cultural, as reflected in today's thai society,; to wit, carelessness, lack of appreciation for law,order,safety, remarkable degree of self-centeredness; none of those can be addressed in any short term

they can be mercilessly cracked down upon, doing damage where it hurts: the wallet.

[Airbagwill]

10 hours ago, manarak said:

maybe you can spread your science

Not my science. This is universally available to those who wish to inform themselves on road safety.

It seems that many, rather than educate themselves on the topic, are convinced that because they drive they must be experts on road safety and consquently are posting on a subject about which they in reality, understand very little.

[manarak]

1 minute ago, Airbagwill said:

Not my science. This is universally available to those who wish to inform themselves on road safety.

It seems that many, rather than educate themselves on the topic, are convinced that because they drive they must be experts on road safety and consquently are posting on a subject about which they in reality, understand very little.

please state some facts

 

German police uses videos routinely to fine bad drivers. Why wouldn't the Thais ?

Edited October 24, 2017 by manarak

[Jim walker]

training people to drive in a respectful manner helps prevent accidents giving police access to a money machine in the form of a radar gun wont stop accidents from happening people will just start ducking and diving all over the road when they see a policeman with a gun in his hand and motorcyclists will be diving across the dual carriageway to avoid police and cause more accidents, better to spend your time looking out for police than watching the road and other motorists.   

[stereolab]

2 hours ago, Jim walker said:

training people to drive in a respectful manner helps prevent accidents giving police access to a money machine in the form of a radar gun wont stop accidents from happening people will just start ducking and diving all over the road when they see a policeman with a gun in his hand and motorcyclists will be diving across the dual carriageway to avoid police and cause more accidents, better to spend your time looking out for police than watching the road and other motorists.   

How will the Police Operator deal with the motorbike/car/elephant going the wrong way, will his gun show a negative figure? I can see an money making opportunity for the temples who can issue an anti-speed gun amulet.