Tourists .... pfffft!

[canthai55]

10 hours ago, kurtmartens said:

  I honestly don't think me ranting about rude picture taking or folks walking around shirtless in elephant pants with an open can of beer is moaning about life in Thailand.

If you are bothered about it enuf to post here, then we agree to disagree. The fact that it bothers you makes it your problem, not theirs.  I let people do what they want. As long as it does not directly effect the safety and well being of me and mine.

 

[FolkGuitar]

18 hours ago, kurtmartens said:

Sorry, not to start a pissing contest.  But, how does me not wanting my wife's picture taken while she is praying making me intolerant?

 

May I ask... Was your wife aware that she was being photographed while she was praying?

[Loaded]

If the temple 'near the summer palace' is Wat Prasing, I don't think anyone needs to worry about foreigners behaving inappropriately there. Do you remember the photos of the abbot and a group of monks on a US amusement ride a couple of years ago. Income at temples isn't audited so where does all that baht from ticket sales go?

 

 

[WinnieTheKhwai]

 

On 10/27/2017 at 2:34 PM, Dipterocarp said:

One of my Thai friends is a very accomplished amateur photographer and has won some awards and shown her work in the USA. She always asks permission before taking photographs of people but one time I saw her at Loy Khratong parade, with a girl in traditional dress we met. Not only did she ask permission also gave the girl some money and had took her pic from various angles with a floating lantern. She intended to submit to a competition with a well known  magazine. 

 

I asked my Thai photographer friend if this was ethical? She was paying the girl to pose in what would appear to natural images but they were in fact paid and staged. I din't get a straight answer.

 

Not staged, just arranged for capturing a good photo.  Staged would mean she hired people, dressed them up as Minions and then photograph that.   She's just arranging the actual scene to facilitate a good photograph being taken. (Like, technically: lighting, background, etc.)  And indeed if you ask people to do that for you then offering some payment is nice.

 

At the same time, not everyone photographs well if they're aware a photo is being taken and they're expected to pose, usually awkwardly.  So another tool in the photographer's toolkit is to just take long range zoom shots of people behaving naturally.

 

Both are totally fine.

 

On 10/28/2017 at 7:25 AM, MaeJoMTB said:

Usually imagined by halfwits trying to be more Thai than the Thais.

Yesterday a foreigner wai-ed the coffee shop  waitress.

 

If that was the worst thing that foreigners did that day then I think we're doing pretty good.

 

And then on the original poster.. a rethink of his life may be in order:  tourist temple or not, lots of people take pictures there, including Thais, including monks, including expats, including tourists.   Until he realizes that he's the odd one out he'll struggle through the most innocuous moments in daily life.   Maybe there are pills for that.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2017 by WinnieTheKhwai

[dcnx]

On 10/27/2017 at 6:02 AM, BuddyDean said:

People with cameras are often impolite.  It was even mentioned in Lonely Planet that the Thais didn't like cameras, and that was way before smartphones, but basically there are tons of idiots in the tourist areas.  Would like to see more fines on the shirtless.

Well, now the Thais do have smartphones and they are just as bad as any tourist. They are taking photos in temples and everywhere else. One trip to Instagram or Facebook will show you everything you need to know about Thais with cameras.

[chingmai331]

So, farangs are forbidden to use the 'wai' sign to Thais?   I never knew that.  How about farang to farang?

 

Or maybe waitresses don't deserve the friendly 'wai'.  Or the wai signifies 'who's on top'.  Is that it Maejo boy?  Don't let the Thais get uppity, and to achieve that goal, deny the Thai the wai. 

[Loaded]

48 minutes ago, chingmai331 said:

So, farangs are forbidden to use the 'wai' sign to Thais?   I never knew that.  How about farang to farang?

 

Or maybe waitresses don't deserve the friendly 'wai'.  Or the wai signifies 'who's on top'.  Is that it Maejo boy?  Don't let the Thais get uppity, and to achieve that goal, deny the Thai the wai. 

It's clear that you have absolutely no understanding of the social mores regarding the wai.

 

Thailand has rigid social hierarchy rules. The wai is part of the concept of krieng jai - the junior person defers to the authority of the senior person by waing first.

[FolkGuitar]

2 hours ago, chingmai331 said:

So, farangs are forbidden to use the 'wai' sign to Thais?   I never knew that.  How about farang to farang?

 

Or maybe waitresses don't deserve the friendly 'wai'.  Or the wai signifies 'who's on top'.  Is that it Maejo boy?  Don't let the Thais get uppity, and to achieve that goal, deny the Thai the wai. 

 

It often pays to learn a bit about Thai culture before posting (or behaving.) It may save you some serious embarrassment and a loss of face in the Thai community. 

 

I wonder if you were the Farang I saw today at the gas pump, wai-ing to the young gas jockey?

 

 

[Mark1066]

On 10/28/2017 at 7:25 AM, MaeJoMTB said:

Usually imagined by halfwits trying to be more Thai than the Thais.

Yesterday a foreigner wai-ed the coffee shop  waitress.

PS. I ain't a guest, I pay.

My wife wais the girl on the till when we go shopping in Rimping. Halfwits trying to be more Thai than the Thais are not as annoying as foreigners who think they understand Thai culture better than Thai people. Seems there's a few of them on this thread.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Mark1066

[Loaded]

1 hour ago, Mark1066 said:

My wife wais the girl on the till when we go shopping in Rimping. Halfwits trying to be more Thai than the Thais are not as annoying as foreigners who think they understand Thai culture better than Thai people. Seems there's a few of them on this thread.

If she is returning the wai from the girl on the till, she is being polite.

 

If she is the one initiating the wai, she has accepted that her social position is below the person she's giving her money to and who is serving her. I think this is unlikely and you have just misunderstood your wife's behaviour.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by Loaded

[Dante99]

 

 

What would you do if you felt that the hierarchy rules were not appropriate and you wanted to treat people as equals?  Wai everybody? Wai nobody? Wai at exactly the same time you received a wai?

 

[kurtmartens]

On 10/29/2017 at 3:42 PM, FolkGuitar said:

 

May I ask... Was your wife aware that she was being photographed while she was praying?

To be honest, no I do not think so.

[MaeJoMTB]

2 hours ago, Mark1066 said:

My wife wais the girl on the till when we go shopping in Rimping.

I have no information on your wife's social standing or educational level.

It may be entirely appropriate that she wais Rimping checkout staff. 

(I believe Rimping  only employs staff who have a high school diploma).

 

But as an elderly, educated and wealthy person, it isn't the right way for me (and many other foreigners) to behave towards checkout girls.

 

SNAP at Loaded and FolkGuitar)

Edited October 30, 2017 by MaeJoMTB

[MaeJoMTB]

40 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

What would you do if you felt that the hierarchy rules were not appropriate and you wanted to treat people as equals?  Wai everybody? Wai nobody? Wai at exactly the same time you received a wai?

As Riddick says, "I bow to no man"

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by MaeJoMTB

[impulse]

10 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

As Riddick says, "I bow to no man"

 

What's he say about wai-ing?

[FolkGuitar]

 

On 10/29/2017 at 3:42 PM, FolkGuitar said:

May I ask... Was your wife aware that she was being photographed while she was praying?

 

35 minutes ago, kurtmartens said:

To be honest, no I do not think so.

 

Well then, it wasn't intrusive to her prayers.  It was only an invasion of our western sense of 'sacred spaces,' and really didn't bother her at all...  Interesting...

[Mark1066]

3 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

I have no information on your wife's social standing or educational level.

It may be entirely appropriate that she wais Rimping checkout staff. 

(I believe Rimping  only employs staff who have a high school diploma).

 

But as an elderly, educated and wealthy person, it isn't the right way for me (and many other foreigners) to behave towards checkout girls.

 

SNAP at Loaded and FolkGuitar)

An entirely predictable response.

[Mark1066]

4 hours ago, Loaded said:

If she is returning the wai from the girl on the till, she is being polite.

 

If she is the one initiating the wai, she has accepted that her social position is below the person she's giving her money to and who is serving her. I think this is unlikely and you have just misunderstood your wife's behaviour.

 

 

She probably was returning a wai as they wai all customers at the checkout. My point was simply that there's nothing odd about waiiing shop staff / waitresses.

[chingmai331]

Some here mis-understand my relationship to the Thai people and their social hierarchy system.  I, a very obvious farang, have really no knowledge of caste behaviour as locally practiced and i stand totally outside that system, and everyone knows that.  So in that respect i will never lose face here, coz I have no standing in the society.  I'm a guest.  I do my best to treat all with respect although certain drivers might get the 'finger'...a foreign hand signal of dis-respect.

If i err and give a wai to a pretty caddy, let the other caddies laugh.  I will join in and enjoy the day.

[transam]

When l first came here the wai thing was a bit confusing, I just assumed it was a bit like us shaking hands or a sign of friendship/being polite...

 

Took a while to sort it out with the advice of Mrs.Trans. All my Thai friends that come to my house wai me, l return the wai as a sign of our friendship, again to me the same as shaking hands.

 

In stores the teller always wai's, they are told to do it, l give a nice hansum smile back and say thankyou (in Thai) because that is the way l was brought up, never yet heard a Thai say thankyou to the teller though, I believe that is because the customer is giving them money.

 

There is most certainly a hierarchy thing attached to a wai, was in Tesco and as a bloke walked past the row of tellers the girls near all waied him, l assume it was the manager..

 

I cannot remember ever having a doctor wai me when going to see one, reckon because they are looked at in high esteem, and no l do not wai, just a smile and swadikrup..

[Ulysses G.]

I wai everyone who wais me except for young children. I don't want to confuse them. I don't really care if I am am wrong sometimes. Thais give farangs a lot of leeway.

[THAILIBAN]

On 10/30/2017 at 9:35 PM, Mark1066 said:

She probably was returning a wai as they wai all customers at the checkout. My point was simply that there's nothing odd about waiiing shop staff / waitresses.

 

All Thais will have a good laugh when they say a clueless Farang wai-ing a cashier clerk or waitress.

That is 100% nonsense. Have you ever seen a Thai person doing this? If so, then it is 99% likely that those persons know each other from another place where they are considered equal in social status.

Don't believe it ? I can refer you to one great Thai language teacher in Chiang Mai who has taught Thai language and culture to numerous foreign embassy staff, NGO's and the Peace Corps

[Mark1066]

16 hours ago, THAILIBAN said:

 

All Thais will have a good laugh when they say a clueless Farang wai-ing a cashier clerk or waitress.

That is 100% nonsense. Have you ever seen a Thai person doing this? If so, then it is 99% likely that those persons know each other from another place where they are considered equal in social status.

Don't believe it ? I can refer you to one great Thai language teacher in Chiang Mai who has taught Thai language and culture to numerous foreign embassy staff, NGO's and the Peace Corps

Have I ever seen a Thai person wai a cashier clerk? If you mean have I ever seen a Thai person return a wai to a cashier clerk, then yes: I said so in the post you replied to didn't I? And no, my wife is not of the same social status as a cashier clerk and she didn't know the clerk socially.

 

I don't really see the relevance of the Thai teacher you refer to having taught loads of foreigners - that doesn't make him any more of an expert on Thai culture. However, if you like to think of yourself as an expert that's great.

Edited November 5, 2017 by Mark1066

[orang37]

22 hours ago, THAILIBAN said:

.. when they say a clueless Farang wai-ing a cashier clerk or waitress ...

understanding this trouble to me big.

Edited November 5, 2017 by orang37
neuter

[orang37]

5 hours ago, Mark1066 said:

have I ever seen a Thai person return a wai to a cashier clerk, then yes:

I can easily imagine a Thai person perceiving their intimate farang other as "ATM," or "cashier's check," and wai-ing that wi$h-fulfilling aspect of their presence.

 

~o:37l

[BuddyDean]

I waied the Satit student, who tapped me on the shoulder and handed me my visa debit card I left in the machine 150 feet back.  Figured he didn't want a handshake, and no need for discussions about cash rewards..he probably wouldn't have accepted.  Don't care what people think.  The farang more Thai than the Thais often seem to be the ones, who take three hours to do a 90 Day Report.  

[Mark1066]

10 hours ago, orang37 said:

I can easily imagine a Thai person perceiving their intimate farang other as "ATM," or "cashier's check," and wai-ing that wi$h-fulfilling aspect of their presence.

 

~o:37l

There are some sad attitudes in this forum - born of bitterness I guess. I haven't met any Thai people like that, fortunately. Perhaps we move in different circles. I sure hope we do anyway.