Wp query

[irlguy1]

Hi guys

A friend of mine is looking for some info and I thought I would ask the resident experts here for their help.

 

The situation is this,

He owns a business not in any way related to the food industry and has it fully registered and legal and has his own work permit now what he wants to do is help open a restaurant for his mates wife and her husband to work in and wants to know how best and cheapest to get the guy a WP?

His mate is married to a thai and heard that their is a special wp available for husbands to help their spouse in their own business but we can't find any info on that so the question is this,

 

Can they open the restaurant under the other non food business as part of an extension type thing and just add on a wp ?

The current business employs lots of Thais and the new one will also have 2 more including the mates wife but the original business is only registered for 2 million capital so I think that only gets them one wp?

 

Or do they open it under the wife's name and get wp as a spouse helping wife (if it exists)? and if it does how expensive would it be and what would be needed to get it?

 

Any other options?

 

The husband just wants to be able to do some cooking and maybe serve the odd coffee or something to help his Mrs out.

It will be her business.

 

Just to be clear it's not the Farang that wants to open the business it's the wife and he just wants to be able to help her out if needed as he was a chef before he moved here. He is technically retired but not at retirement age so is on a spouse visa at the moment and they wouldn't have the money to start a business and get work permits by themselves so they just need some work around to stay legal.

 

I imagine it would be crazy money for the wife to try to open a business that meets all the criteria to be able to get him a wp by herself ? Hence hoping that this special spouse wp really exists and is cheaper and easier than other options.

 

Thanks

 

 

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[JackThompson]

The "Thai Wife" factor comes down to some Labor offices allowing only 2 Thai-hires for one alien work-permit, instead of 4 Thai-hires, and a halving the capital-requirement if the wife and husband are co-owners of the business.

 

50 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

The husband just wants to be able to do some cooking and maybe serve the odd coffee or something to help his Mrs out.

That won't fly in any scenario.  He could only have a "manager" type role - not doing any sort of cooking or serving, which are jobs restricted only to Thais.

 

52 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

is on a spouse visa at the moment

If he is here on a Non-O based on marriage - either a Visa based on the marriage, or an Extension of Stay based on the marriage - then he will not need to change anything with Immigration - just apply for a work-permit.  But that still leaves the labor-dept hurdles to cross.

 

54 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

I imagine it would be crazy money for the wife to try to open a business that meets all the criteria to be able to get him a wp by herself ?

Capital requirements + hire 2 (maybe 4) Thais + make him a Manager (not cook, server, etc).  If the business doesn't need a manager, there is no point in this exercise, as he already has a valid means of staying in Thailand (Non-O Marriage).

[irlguy1]

The "Thai Wife" factor comes down to some Labor offices allowing only 2 Thai-hires for one alien work-permit, instead of 4 Thai-hires, and a halving the capital-requirement if the wife and husband are co-owners of the business.

 

Capital requirements + hire 2 (maybe 4) Thais + make him a Manager (not cook, server, etc).  If the business doesn't need a manager, there is no point in this exercise, as he already has a valid means of staying in Thailand (Non-O Marriage).

 

Cooking is not a prohibited job for non Thais so without being rude I would question the validity of the rest of your info?

 

 

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[FritsSikkink]

17 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

 

Cooking is not a prohibited job for non Thais so without being rude I would question the validity of the rest of your info?

 

 

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He can cook farang food but he can't serve. If he and his wife setup a company (she 51%, he 49%), his wife works in the company, he needs 1 more Thai employee to get a work permit.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, irlguy1 said:

Cooking is not a prohibited job for non Thais so without being rude I would question the validity of the rest of your info?

 

1 hour ago, FritsSikkink said:

He can cook farang food but he can't serve. If he and his wife setup a company (she 51%, he 49%), his wife works in the company, he needs 1 more Thai employee to get a work permit.

Ok - so it is permitted if he is essentially a "specialty cook" - like bringing in a Japanese chef for a Japanese restaurant.  I hadn't considered the OP's description - "some cooking and maybe serve the odd coffee or something" - as fitting those conditions.  So if the work-permit application was rephrased into a "specialty cook" type description, then it is possible. 

 

From what I had read - the "Thai hires" requirement goes from 4 to 2 under "married to Thai and co-owners" circumstances.  As to having the wife co-owner counting as one - I believe that would require further flexibility on the part of the labor-dept, and (in at least one report I recall) even where allowed initially, may not be allowed on a continual basis.

[FritsSikkink]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

 

Ok - so it is permitted if he is essentially a "specialty cook" - like bringing in a Japanese chef for a Japanese restaurant.  I hadn't considered the OP's description - "some cooking and maybe serve the odd coffee or something" - as fitting those conditions.  So if the work-permit application was rephrased into a "specialty cook" type description, then it is possible. 

 

From what I had read - the "Thai hires" requirement goes from 4 to 2 under "married to Thai and co-owners" circumstances.  As to having the wife co-owner counting as one - I believe that would require further flexibility on the part of the labor-dept, and (in at least one report I recall) even where allowed initially, may not be allowed on a continual basis.

Wife not only as co-owner but as employee too. Manager, cashier, serving or something else.

[JackThompson]

9 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

Wife not only as co-owner but as employee too. Manager, cashier, serving or something else.

Yes, understood.

[elviajero]

 

6 hours ago, irlguy1 said:

The husband just wants to be able to do some cooking and maybe serve the odd coffee or something to help his Mrs out.

It will be her business.

It is almost certain that he wouldn't get a work permit for this kind of work. I can't see it would be viable to employ him just so he could help out. There is no "special spouse WP".

 

The law needs changing in this area so that husbands can help out with their wife's businesses, but until it does husbands like your friend need to stay under the radar, or be creative when setting up the business. However, in this case, even if he were employed as a manager it would preclude cooking and serving.

[irlguy1]

He can cook farang food but he can't serve. If he and his wife setup a company (she 51%, he 49%), his wife works in the company, he needs 1 more Thai employee to get a work permit.

The wife and her mum will be working there and possibly the brother too. She is a great cook of both thai and Farang food as she lived abroad for years. He just wants to be able to help her out when they get busy by cooking the Farang food.
He is not really interested in setting up a company with her as he is here on his spouse non O visa and doesn't need to be part of the company. Surely Thais can open a company by themselves and hire a Farang ?
I see many Thai hotels with Farang chefs and doubt they are part owned by a Farang?
I could be wrong but doubt it.



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[irlguy1]

So how about the other scenario if not with the wife.
The scenario where by the guy that already owns a registered company (not in catering) adds the restaurant to his empire as an additional business under his main company umbrella so to speak. Could he then just hire the mate as his Farang chef and the wife as main chef?


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[Mattd]

The job description for the work permit would need to be creative, that is the key part to getting the actual work permit to suit the position and it would need to include the wording that allows him to prepare specialist food.

Is the friend a qualified chef with the certification to back it up? This would almost certainly be needed to support the WP application.

[elviajero]

9 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

Surely Thais can open a company by themselves and hire a Farang ?
I see many Thai hotels with Farang chefs and doubt they are part owned by a Farang?

Yes they can. He would not have to be a shareholder in the business. It's irrelevant.

[irlguy1]

The job description for the work permit would need to be creative, that is the key part to getting the actual work permit to suit the position and it would need to include the wording that allows him to prepare specialist food.
Is the friend a qualified chef with the certification to back it up? This would almost certainly be needed to support the WP application.

Qualified yes years ago but doubt he has the papers as he never intended to work here.


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[elviajero]

11 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

So how about the other scenario if not with the wife.
The scenario where by the guy that already owns a registered company (not in catering) adds the restaurant to his empire as an additional business under his main company umbrella so to speak. Could he then just hire the mate as his Farang chef and the wife as main chef?

I am pretty sure that they would need to set up a different company.

 

Regardless of how the business is set up the problem is the WP. Unless the "Farang" qualifies to be employed as a Chef he won't get a WP. He would probably need to provide the labour office with a CV that includes a history of work as a Chef, and proof of professional qualifications.

Edited November 7, 2017 by elviajero

[FritsSikkink]

20 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

 

The wife and her mum will be working there and possibly the brother too. She is a great cook of both thai and Farang food as she lived abroad for years. He just wants to be able to help her out when they get busy by cooking the Farang food.
He is not really interested in setting up a company with her as he is here on his spouse non O visa and doesn't need to be part of the company. Surely Thais can open a company by themselves and hire a Farang ?
I see many Thai hotels with Farang chefs and doubt they are part owned by a Farang?
I could be wrong but doubt it.



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He doesn't need to be a shareholder to work but without a company, he will never get a work permit. You can only do the work which is described in the work permit. Certain jobs are a NOGO for farangs, serving is one of them.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, irlguy1 said:

The wife and her mum will be working there and possibly the brother too. She is a great cook of both thai and Farang food as she lived abroad for years. He just wants to be able to help her out when they get busy by cooking the Farang food.

He is not really interested in setting up a company with her as he is here on his spouse non O visa and doesn't need to be part of the company. Surely Thais can open a company by themselves and hire a Farang ?
I see many Thai hotels with Farang chefs and doubt they are part owned by a Farang?
I could be wrong but doubt it.

If with 4 Thais hired, the business can hire one foreigner who has no relationship to ownership / Thai-wife, etc - provided they meet the other qualifications (others addressed, above).  

The reduction to 2 Thais per-farang, allowed by some Labor Offices, is a special-case to allow foreign husbands to work with their Thai wives in a partnership business.

[blackcab]

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

If with 4 Thais hired, the business can hire one foreigner who has no relationship to ownership / Thai-wife, etc - provided they meet the other qualifications (others addressed, above).

 

The non-Thai being hired can be related and/or married to company directors and/or shareholders.

 

A Thai wife can be a shareholder and a director and her non-Thai husband can get a work permit for her company (providing the company qualifies to sponsor a work permit).

[JackThompson]

8 hours ago, blackcab said:

The non-Thai being hired can be related and/or married to company directors and/or shareholders.

 

A Thai wife can be a shareholder and a director and her non-Thai husband can get a work permit for her company (providing the company qualifies to sponsor a work permit).

I was responding to the question of why companies can hire foreigners who are not related/husbands, provided there are 4 Thais hired for each alien. 

I did not mean to imply that a relationship it was a disqualifier.  As stated earlier in the thread, a relationship can reduce the number of Thai-hires needed.

[blackcab]

49 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I was responding to the question of why companies can hire foreigners who are not related/husbands, provided there are 4 Thais hired for each alien. 

I did not mean to imply that a relationship it was a disqualifier.  As stated earlier in the thread, a relationship can reduce the number of Thai-hires needed.

 

Apologies Jack - I read your post completely out of context.

[JackThompson]

7 minutes ago, blackcab said:

Apologies Jack - I read your post completely out of context.

No problem - I could have worded it better to avoid confusion.