Brexit never? Britain can still change its mind, says Article 50 author

[Grouse]

18 minutes ago, baansgr said:

So yet again more proof that remoaners cant have an adult open debate without insulted those that dontvagree with their facist agenda. Hitler comes to mind when i read some of the comments on here by remoaners 

Vogie was being ironic. He wasn't calling you a moron! Are you?

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Yes but Killy Krankie and Salmond are as bad as Abbott and Corbyn, aftrr a hard days work I love a bit of comedy, Abbott blaming every mistake she makes on her 1970s hairstyle believing thats a valid excuse.. Thats comedy. 

Now Abbott is a moron. Can't abide the woman.

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, baansgr said:

Yes but Killy Krankie and Salmond are as bad as Abbott and Corbyn, aftrr a hard days work I love a bit of comedy, Abbott blaming every mistake she makes on her 1970s hairstyle believing thats a valid excuse.. Thats comedy. 

So you accept that Brexit is reason enough to ask the Scots people again. Good!

[baansgr]

Just now, Grouse said:

So you accept that Brexit is reason enough to ask the Scots people again. Good!

No, yes as in I do understand. 

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

"The £350m a week that "could" be used for the NHS in the event of Brexit will likely never materialise, as Ukip leader Nigel Farage stepped back from his original pledge".

 

Nigel Farage was a Remoaner was he, I never knew, imagine that!

That wasn't Farage's bus. And the word "let's" implies an idea, or suggestion, not a promise nor pledge. 

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

You may quote what and whom you wish, the fact remains that the comment on NHS funding originated with Farage who is not in the Remain camp.

As Farage would say, "no it didn't"!

[simoh1490]

Just now, nauseus said:

That wasn't Farage's bus. And the word "let's" implies an idea, or suggestion, not a promise nor pledge. 

No indeed it was not, it was Dominic Cummings who incidentally now thinks that Brexit is a stupid idea: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-vote-leave-director-dominic-cummings-leave-eu-error-nhs-350-million-lie-bus-a7822386.html

 

And since Boris was the one who first aired the idea in a radio broadcast, Faarage can almost be forgiven in thinking it was policy, almost.

 

http://metro.co.uk/2017/04/27/boris-johnson-stands-by-350million-vote-leave-bus-message-6600240/

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, rockingrobin said:

The bus did not state Let's fund the NHS

It stated Let's fund the NHS instead

The use of the term instead makes the meaning explicit.Even a child can comprehend this. If I was to say let's go to Paris , I  am sure they would realize that what I actual mean is Blackpool

The term "instead" adds no extra meaning.

 

If you were to say to me, "let's go to Paris", I might say "that's be a good IDEA but I might prefer Brighton!". 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Is that code for, I don't have a rebuttal that will fly!

Not a rebuttal, a comment. You are completely confused.

[simoh1490]

Just now, nauseus said:

The term "instead" adds no extra meaning.

 

If you were to say to me, "let's go to Paris", I might say "that's be a good IDEA but I might prefer Brighton!". 

More word games, the meaning and intention of the slogan written on the bus was crystal, it was then and it remains so, debating usage of the words "instead" and "let's" is a diversion, time wasting, a distraction from the argument and moronic at best.

[simoh1490]

Just now, nauseus said:

Not a rebuttal, a comment. You are completely confused.

Trump might be able to get away with similar lines, you can't! 

 

Either explain where you think we are confused or we'll file your response under, "didn't understand, couldn't come up with a meaningful response or rebuttal".

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Vogie was being ironic. He wasn't calling you a moron! Are you?

It's true Baang.

 

Vogie was just being sarcastic. He is not a remoaner.

[anon537687643]

That extra £350 million per week that will be available to be spent any way we see fit, is that calculated on the basis of the value of today's economy, the probable future economy during the next ten years or on the basis of hope and a prayer! I mean clearly, if we were to Brexit tomorrow, for example, the UK economy would be far smaller than it is today. Even if we were to soft Brexit, which would mean paying over something between £40 bill. and £80 bill., would we still have that extra £350 mill. to spend every week.......I think not.

More fantasy ! Where you get 40-80 billion from?


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[anon537687643]

Your views pigeon hole you quite nicely. [emoji3]

You think so! Wrong !!In the majority here!


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[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, markaoffy said:

More fantasy ! Where you get 40-80 billion from?


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40-80 bill. Pounds that is.

 

"The Financial Times in November 2016 originally reported that the European Commission was seeking an exit bill of €60 billion, based on comments by Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator on Brexit. In February, the same author writing for the Centre for European Reform (CER) estimated that the bill could range from €25–73 billion. Bruegel have given a similar range for the bill, at €25.4–65.1 billion. Most recently, Alex Barker, writing again in the Financial Times, put the net bill at €55–75 billion, based on a €91–€113 billion gross figure".

 

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/eu-divorce-bill

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

More word games, the meaning and intention of the slogan written on the bus was crystal, it was then and it remains so, debating usage of the words "instead" and "let's" is a diversion, time wasting, a distraction from the argument and moronic at best.

Crystal clear to any cloudy cranium.

[nauseus]

6 minutes ago, markaoffy said:

More fantasy ! Where you get 40-80 billion from?


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From his cloudy cranium!

[simoh1490]

See, you guys are not even trying to debate this subject, all you're doing is playing word games and throwing out meaningless one-liners to criticise arguments that are presented to you, it's always been the same, you simply don't have the bandwidth to manage the argument.

 

I'm going back to watching Dulux, until somebody with a decent structured argument comes along who is serious about the debate.! 

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Trump might be able to get away with similar lines, you can't! 

 

Either explain where you think we are confused or we'll file your response under, "didn't understand, couldn't come up with a meaningful response or rebuttal".

Not "we" but you, who associated brave Brexiteers with the Project Fear that was the illegitimate child of those dastardly Remoaners!

[simoh1490]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Not "we" but you, who associated brave Brexiteers with the Project Fear that was the illegitimate child of those dastardly Remoaners!

You really don't understand do you - go back and read it all in context again!

 

It was the Brexit camp that labelled those things as project fear, the remain group pointed out what would happen and you all called it scaremongering! Well whilst not 100% of those things were correct, over 80% were, the problem was the timing. Just because those things didn't all happen at the same time, immediately after the vote you all tagged it project fear and dismissed all of it. Well, those chickens have now come home to roost except you chose to ignore them as either not being real or as being caused by something else. I have every confidence my nauseus friend that if Brexit does proceed and the UK does go to hell in a ham basket, you and your group will find some historic action by the remain group to have been the cause, it's guaranteed.

 

Dulux, wet paint watching, onwards.

 

 

 

[chrissables]

4 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

All of the detailed information that has come out on a daily basis since the vote, much of it is what was previously known as data contained in Project Fear, the things that are now becoming a reality, much to the surprise of many. For example, that the Pound would fall in value significantly, that the UK economy would shrink further for longer, that Brexit wouldn't mean an extra £350 million per week for the NHS, that immigration into the UK would not fall substantially,  that hard Brexit may be a reality with all that entails, etc etc. Whilst elements of the UK voting population MAY have understood the realities of the above, much of it did not.

 

EDIT TO ADD: links below plus the addition of "baked in views about the EU".

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-latest-news-leave-eu-immigration-main-reason-european-union-survey-a7811651.html

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_the_vote_in_favour_of_Brexit

 

https://www.economist.com/news/books-and-arts/21721358-book-makes-rare-attempt-use-survey-data-find-some-answers-explaining

The pound was in decline a long time before the referendum was agreed.

 

The economy has not changed dramatically, actually up 2% 

 

The bank of England's governor has been shown to be wrong about his forecasts.

 

The bus quote has no meaning until we have exited and the government decides to follow what was said. Jacob Rees Mogg was on TV the other day saying they should honour it. Time will tell.

[adammike]

12 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

You really don't understand do you - go back and read it all in context again!

 

It was the Brexit camp that labelled those things as project fear, the remain group pointed out what would happen and you all called it scaremongering! Well whilst not 100% of those things were correct, over 80% were, the problem was the timing. Just because those things didn't all happen at the same time, immediately after the vote you all tagged it project fear and dismissed all of it. Well, those chickens have now come home to roost except you chose to ignore them as either not being real or as being caused by something else. I have every confidence my nauseus friend that if Brexit does proceed and the UK does go to hell in a ham basket, you and your group will find some historic action by the remain group to have been the cause, it's guaranteed.

 

Dulux, wet paint watching, onwards.

 

 

 

Stop talking sense. 

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

You really don't understand do you - go back and read it all in context again!

 

It was the Brexit camp that labelled those things as project fear, the remain group pointed out what would happen and you all called it scaremongering! Well whilst not 100% of those things were correct, over 80% were, the problem was the timing. Just because those things didn't all happen at the same time, immediately after the vote you all tagged it project fear and dismissed all of it. Well, those chickens have now come home to roost except you chose to ignore them as either not being real or as being caused by something else. I have every confidence my nauseus friend that if Brexit does proceed and the UK does go to hell in a ham basket, you and your group will find some historic action by the remain group to have been the cause, it's guaranteed.

 

Dulux, wet paint watching, onwards.

 

 

 

Yes I read your Project Fear ownership thing wrong. So sorry.

 

But the rest is not yet history. You are jumping the gun. It will be years before this story is finished.

 

And, as ever, the only argument remainers ever have is economic, which you all forget is about 3rd priority for leavers!

As for going to hell in a basket, the EU every chance of getting its feet warm first. Economic risk is one that has been considered as worth taking by most of the people that voted out. I don't think that leavers will moan like you lot have done for 17 months already, whatever happens.

 

Hope your paint dries before it rains!

 

And it's hell in a hand basket, not ham basket,

 

 

 

[chrissables]

52 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

No indeed it was not, it was Dominic Cummings who incidentally now thinks that Brexit is a stupid idea: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-vote-leave-director-dominic-cummings-leave-eu-error-nhs-350-million-lie-bus-a7822386.html

 

And since Boris was the one who first aired the idea in a radio broadcast, Faarage can almost be forgiven in thinking it was policy, almost.

 

http://metro.co.uk/2017/04/27/boris-johnson-stands-by-350million-vote-leave-bus-message-6600240/

Farage always said they should not use the figures on the bus and has never stood behind that view.

[adammike]

59 minutes ago, nauseus said:

That wasn't Farage's bus. And the word "let's" implies an idea, or suggestion, not a promise nor pledge. 

True,but there are photos of Boris and Fox  with the slogan "let's give our NHS the 350 million".plastered on the wall behind them at a rally,they said it they own it.

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, adammike said:

True,but there are photos of Boris and Fox  with the slogan "let's give our NHS the 350 million".plastered on the wall behind them at a rally,they said it they own it.

Er...it still says "let's" though.

[baansgr]

52 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

You really don't understand do you - go back and read it all in context again!

 

It was the Brexit camp that labelled those things as project fear, the remain group pointed out what would happen and you all called it scaremongering! Well whilst not 100% of those things were correct, over 80% were, the problem was the timing. Just because those things didn't all happen at the same time, immediately after the vote you all tagged it project fear and dismissed all of it. Well, those chickens have now come home to roost except you chose to ignore them as either not being real or as being caused by something else. I have every confidence my nauseus friend that if Brexit does proceed and the UK does go to hell in a ham basket, you and your group will find some historic action by the remain group to have been the cause, it's guaranteed.

 

Dulux, wet paint watching, onwards.

 

 

 

Actually apart from Sterling falling nothing else has happened that remoaners said would. And sterling was recovering until Carney stuck his oar in, same as raising the rate, accompanied by by a shrowded statemwnt of uncertainty. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by baansgr

[baansgr]

28 minutes ago, adammike said:

True,but there are photos of Boris and Fox  with the slogan "let's give our NHS the 350 million".plastered on the wall behind them at a rally,they said it they own it.

Can we see them

[baansgr]

1 hour ago, simoh1490 said:

See, you guys are not even trying to debate this subject, all you're doing is playing word games and throwing out meaningless one-liners to criticise arguments that are presented to you, it's always been the same, you simply don't have the bandwidth to manage the argument.

 

I'm going back to watching Dulux, until somebody with a decent structured argument comes along who is serious about the debate.! 

I think if you resd all the Brexit threads, watch QT, other media, you will find its the moaners that dont like open debate and are worse than Mugabe on a hot tin roof

[vogie]

33 minutes ago, adammike said:

True,but there are photos of Boris and Fox  with the slogan "let's give our NHS the 350 million".plastered on the wall behind them at a rally,they said it they own it.

The Boris bus was put to bed a long time ago, it is a dead herring, it is only brought back on the road when remainers can't think of anything constructive to say. Throwing another 350 million into the NHS is not going to cure it, most of it will go to the fat cats at the top of the pile and only very little will reach grass roots. The Health Service is the most abused institution in the land, it needs dismantling and starting all over again. But carry on on throwing this poor excuse into ring, nobody believes it, but when you're desperate 'any port in a storm' will do!