Trump says he trusts Putin's denials of election meddling

[Slip]

An interesting article:

What Was Russia's Role In 2016 U.S. Election? 2 Former KGB Officials Weigh In

Quote

"What we're talking about is the new concept of so-called hybrid war, which a government wages but won't admit to," he said. "It's extremely hard to prove."

 

[coulson]

Of course he would.

[craigt3365]

2 hours ago, Rancid said:

Insulting to anyone with intelligence, hmm. There are two types of ignorance, plain ignorance which is simply not knowing about a topic, something that can be easily remedied. The more problematic type is ignorance of ignorance, which often eludes a cure. Tuning in to a particular TV does not provide knowledge, it provides awareness of an opinion, intelligence comes into play as one objectively discerns whether that opinion was true or manufactured after balancing other views.

 

I don't know what the Russians did or did not do, and neither does anyone else, as no hard evidence has been released, all we have seen is the typical corrupt politicians and offsiders from all sides involved in some shady Russian deals for profit. Then we have unsubstantiated innuendo from hack media, hard as it is to believe some "intelligent" people actually swallow that obvious nonsense.

 

Perhaps some should consider how useful witch hunts in the past have been, McCarthyism being a shameful episode where many innocent were persecuted, then consider if the same thing is going on again, and purely so that a environment of fear can be created for the arms industry to even further screw the poor US tax payer.

Please, don't troll.  It's been widely proven Russia meddled in the elections.  In a variety of ways.  To say otherwise is lying.

[craigt3365]

35 minutes ago, Slip said:

An interesting article:

What Was Russia's Role In 2016 U.S. Election? 2 Former KGB Officials Weigh In

 

And they were interfering in the French elections recently.  Yet another country.  Time to fight back.

[selftaopath]

1 hour ago, Thakkar said:

 

It’s actually perfectly reasonable to assume that adversarial powers interfere in each others’ internal affairs, including elections.

But without making any assumptions, there is enough publicly available evidence that Russian operatives made multi-pronged at influencing US election outcomes in favor of Trump.

 

By their own grudging but ultimate admissions, there were secret contacts between members of the Trump campaign and Russian operatives. Specifically, George Papadopoulos, Donald Trump Jr., Jarad Kushner, Paul Manafort, Carter Page, Mike Flynn and Jeff Sessions. That’s seven top level campaign operatives who: first failed to disclose as required, then lied about then finally admitted to some meetings, then admitted to more meetings, then downplayed the significance of those meetings, then finally admitted significant issues were discussed at the meetings—with Russian operatives.

 

Since these people have been consistently cagey about those meetings and Since the guy at the head of that campaign is now president, it’s perfectly reasonable for other branches of the government to want investigate the full extent and significance of those Russian involvements.

 

Furthermore, it’s been confirmed and evidence is publicly available that Russians used advertising and social engineering on Twitter, Google, Facebook and Instagram to possibly reach as many as 100 million Americans in an election that was swung by 70,000 votes spread over 3 states.

 

If for nothing else, then for the sake of confidence in and integrity of future elections, it is reasonable for Americans to investigate the full extent of the interference, how it was done and whether American citizens knowingly collaborated with the interference.

45 has not initialed any way of protecting America from the ongoing Russia attacks. They will continue mainly b/c 45 is in denial. He is in denial b/c he fears he really doesn't deserve to be in the WH. He has not won a popular election in his life.

[AlexRich]

5 hours ago, Ramen087 said:

It's been more than a year since the 2016 presidential election. Impeachment Supporters... it's time to accept reality. Vladimir Putin isn't going anywhere for the rest of his life and Mr. Trump has at least three years and two months in the Oval Office as the President of the United States. 

You might want to look at the Nixon era ... he stayed in power for a long time before the truth caught up with him. Trump only became President in January and Robert Mueller has only recently assembled his team. It looks like Trump solicited the Russians so it’s hardly reassuring that he claims to “believe” Putin. When the Manafort’s and Flynn’s start flipping,  Trump’s lifetime of constant lying will finally catch up with him. You’ll still be supporting him ... right to the end.

[lannarebirth]

6 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

You might want to look at the Nixon era ... he stayed in power for a long time before the truth caught up with him. Trump only became President in January and Robert Mueller has only recently assembled his team. It looks like Trump solicited the Russians so it’s hardly reassuring that he claims to “believe” Putin. When the Manafort’s and Flynn’s start flipping,  Trump’s lifetime of constant lying will finally catch up with him. You’ll still be supporting him ... right to the end.

If you're right he gets impeached but if he turns out to have no direct link between others activities with the Russians and himself he'll have even less culpability than a Facebook shareholder, which half of America is, through one investment vehicle or another. That's rich.

Edited November 12, 2017 by lannarebirth

[theguyfromanotherforum]

7 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

 

Who cares if he is insulted? I sure as hell don't.

 

Why is it not a good thing for the USA? The US is far superior to Russia economically, militarily, culturally, and by just about any measure that you can come up with. Who gives a rat's ass about Russia?

 

Russia interfered in the US elections and elections in other countries; they are a global menace. Punish the hell out of them, take down their economy and return them to the dark ages until they can act like a civilized nation. 

 

 

Hahaha....."culturally" you don't even understand your nonsense post.

 

You are harping about USA being so superior, yet you elected Trump. Oh, yes....USA doesn't interfere in elections at all.

 

Not very smart, are you?

 

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, lannarebirth said:

If you're right he gets impeached but if he turns out to have no direct link between others activities with the Russians and himself he'll have even les culpability than a Facebook shareholder, which half of America is, through one investment vehicle or another. That's rich.

Despite Trump’s denials he already had extensive business links with Russian businessmen, as his properties were being used to launder Russian money. And what’s more incredible is the extensive Russian ties that the bulk of his appointments have - Manafort, Flynn, Wilber Ross, Tillerson ... and they are only this one’s that I can remember off the top of my head! His administration is riddled with Russia connected people. How many times has Sessions lied about meeting Russians and failed to disclose the fact ... until the truth was put before him. The current US administration is seriously compromised ... and we’ll soon find out the extent of it. You’re comparison to Facebook shareholders is risible.

[lannarebirth]

Just now, AlexRich said:

Despite Trump’s denials he already had extensive business links with Russian businessmen, as his properties were being used to launder Russian money. And what’s more incredible is the extensive Russian ties that the bulk of his appointments have - Manafort, Flynn, Wilber Ross, Tillerson ... and they are only this one’s that I can remember off the top of my head! His administration is riddled with Russia connected people. How many times has Sessions lied about meeting Russians and failed to disclose the fact ... until the truth was put before him. The current US administration is seriously compromised ... and we’ll soon find out the extent of it. You’re comparison to Facebook shareholders is risible.

Oh, I believe you. Tell it to the judge.

[Thakkar]

31 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

If you're right he gets impeached but if he turns out to have no direct link between others activities with the Russians and himself he'll have even less culpability than a Facebook shareholder, which half of America is, through one investment vehicle or another. That's rich.

 

Ordinary FB shareholders have no involvement in hiring FB executives, how FB operates, who uses or how they use FB services, who buys ads, what kinds of ad are bought, how those ads are deployed.

 

Trump was intimately involved in who worked for the campaign at the highest levels and involved in at least some of the things they did. So far his son, his son-in-Law, campaign manager, main senate backer and current AG, and three foreign policy advisors one of whom went on to become Natl Security Advisor, are confirmed to have had secret meetings with Russian operatives. They initially failed to disclose those meetings as required, then lied about them again and again, then downplayed them, and, finally, under pressure and in light of a preponderance of evidence, admitted to them.

 

Either Trump was aware of these breaches, in which case he is culpable, or he is so incompetent that he was unaware of major breaches by seven of his top lieutenants, two of whom are close relations.

 

Serious question: how many tinfoil hats does one need to NOT see a problem here?

 

That there are several ongoing investigations over these events is perfectly reasonable. That any news organization depicting these investigations as “witch hunts” smacks of dishonest partisanship.

[Jingthing]

If trump is impeached based on legal charges, they wouldn't need to be specifically about collusion with Russia, which actually based on my understanding isn't even technically a crime. An example of a potential impeachable crime -- obstruction of justice. 

trump is obviously sensitive about the Russian collusion business because he feels it damages the appearance of the legitimacy of his election win, which was in question by definition because he lost the popular vote. 

Edited November 12, 2017 by Jingthing

[lannarebirth]

10 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

 

Ordinary FB shareholders have no involvement in hiring FB executives, how FB operates, who uses or how they use FB services, who buys ads, what kinds of ad are bought, how those ads are deployed.

 

Trump was intimately involved in who worked for the campaign at the highest levels and involved in at least some of the things they did. So far his son, his son-in-Law, campaign manager, main senate backer and current AG, and three foreign policy advisors one of whom went on to become Natl Security Advisor, are confirmed to have had secret meetings with Russian operatives. They initially failed to disclose those meetings as required, then lied about them again and again, then downplayed them, and, finally, under pressure and in light of a preponderance of evidence, admitted to them.

 

Either Trump was aware of these breaches, in which case he is culpable, or he is so incompetent that he was unaware of major breaches by seven of his top lieutenants, two of whom are close relations.

 

Serious question: how many tinfoil hats does one need to NOT see a problem here?

 

That there are several ongoing investigations over these events is perfectly reasonable. That any news organization depicting these investigations as “witch hunts” smacks of dishonest partisanship.

 

I'm not worried about Trump. He is in the jaws of "the system". The system will do its work and he will end up wherever the system decides. I like the system. It was designed for things like this. The system can be overcome by channeling money, a lot of it, over time, to all the actors in the system and co-opting the system. Trump hasn't ever done any of that and I have no doubt if he is culpable of anything it will all come to light and appropriate outcomes will ensue. Oh and yes, shareholders are liable for the actions of the company they own. Not criminally liable, but financially liable to a limited extent.

Edited November 12, 2017 by lannarebirth

[selftaopath]

1 hour ago, AlexRich said:

Despite Trump’s denials he already had extensive business links with Russian businessmen, as his properties were being used to launder Russian money. And what’s more incredible is the extensive Russian ties that the bulk of his appointments have - Manafort, Flynn, Wilber Ross, Tillerson ... and they are only this one’s that I can remember off the top of my head! His administration is riddled with Russia connected people. How many times has Sessions lied about meeting Russians and failed to disclose the fact ... until the truth was put before him. The current US administration is seriously compromised ... and we’ll soon find out the extent of it. You’re comparison to Facebook shareholders is risible.

Thank you for your post. 45 wants to be America's Putin. That's an  explanation of all the traitors he has in his regime. A video worth watching re: 45 march toward tyranny is below:

 

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, selftaopath said:

Thank you for your post. 45 wants to be America's Putin. That's an  explanation of all the traitors he has in his regime. A video worth watching re: 45 march toward tyranny is below:

 

I’ll watch that when I get home, thanks. I don’t blame US voters for rejecting Clinton but have no understanding of why Trump gained the GOP candidacy? Anyone with even a little knowledge of his past would know that he is a liar and a crook ... the US now has a President and cronies who are in the pocket of Moscow. I knew that Americans can be taken in by the superficial, but this really was a surprise. 

[Skywalker69]

[BuaBS]

9 minutes ago, Skywalker69 said:

Yes , the shadow government says Putin attacked the 2016 election ... so it must be true then , Haha !

[tryasimight]

2 hours ago, selftaopath said:

45 has not initialed any way of protecting America from the ongoing Russia attacks. They will continue mainly b/c 45 is in denial. He is in denial b/c he fears he really doesn't deserve to be in the WH. He has not won a popular election in his life.

Have you?

[tryasimight]

12 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Do you truly believe that the Russian allegations have been made up by people unhappy that Clinton lost? If you are representative of the country then, sadly, the US is finished. 

I would not be surprised of anything that Clinton (or Trump)would do to discredit the other side of politics.

[tryasimight]

1 minute ago, Slip said:

Indeed: 

http://www.businessinsider.com/popular-vote-trump-clinton-2016-12

 

 

It would seem you do not understand the electoral process for your own President!!

 

Google and Electoral College are your friend.

[tryasimight]

7 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Propaganda and fake news via ads on bus stops, in Facebook, Twitter had a massive amount....and then all the fake news posts that were re-posted by a variety of other fringe websites.  One report said it's possible 1/2 of all voters saw at least one of these fake news/propaganda ads.  That's influence.

And the Democrats would never do that...55555555

Only 1/2 of all voters saw one ad?

Sack the PR guy/machine/Russians....completely ineffective.

 

If they are anything like the left in Australia they will lie and cheat and sell their grandmother to get a result.

 

Where was Putin involved in this?

Edited November 12, 2017 by tryasimight

[Slip]

3 minutes ago, tryasimight said:

It would seem you do not understand the electoral process for your own President!!

 

Google and Electoral College are your friend.

That does not fit at all well with the original comment you made which was specifically what I quoted.  I include it below for you reference:
 

Quote

There is an old political saying....the people are never wrong.

The fact that you chose a quote that directly flew in the face of your point is hardly my fault.  I was just pointing it out.  All the best and nice to see you back after your hols.

[tryasimight]

10 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

You're not a good traveler. Sad you missed out.

Actually I am a seasoned traveller........your recommendations on what I missed out on?

[tryasimight]

1 minute ago, Slip said:

That does not fit at all well with the original comment you made which was specifically what I quoted.  I include it below for you reference:
 

The fact that you chose a quote that directly flew in the face of your point is hardly my fault.  I was just pointing it out.  All the best and nice to see you back after your hols.

Thank you for your kind words.....I haven't been on holidays...working far too much for such indulgences lately. However I am looking forward to some US cultural experiences....if there are any!!

[Skywalker69]

37 minutes ago, BuaBS said:

Yes , the shadow government says Putin attacked the 2016 election ... so it must be true then , Haha !

Time will tell!

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, tryasimight said:

 

Where was Putin involved in this?

He paid for everything.  LOL

[tryasimight]

3 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

They hacked confidential information and supplied it to organisations like Wikileaks to publish, as well as provided the Trump campaign with information. They also were active in countering negative news on Trump, using Twitter, Facebook and other social media outlets ... propaganda in the 21st Century. They also used targeted ads on media like Facebook to spread rumours about Clinton and messages in support of Trump. All very clever stuff ... and if you are bombarded with this it can influence your judgement.

 

As for old sayings ... tell that to Germans that supported Hitler, Russians that supported Stalin, Chinese that supported Mao, and Cambodians that backed Pol Pot? Old sayings are really just Bullsheet!!! 

 

Thank you for that AlexRich....finally some information on what may have happened. Much better than...'he did cos we said so nonsense'. 

And the many nonsensical posts so far in this thread (mine included...5555 but it has been fun).

You summed it up nicely.

 

I guess this will be standard practice by all political parties in the future. Use the power of social media.George Orwell would be so proud and sad.

Appreciate it.

Edited November 12, 2017 by tryasimight

[metisdead]

Troll posts and replies have been removed.  Continued trolling may earn a suspension. 

[tryasimight]

10 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

They hacked confidential information and supplied it to organisations like Wikileaks to publish, as well as provided the Trump campaign with information. They also were active in countering negative news on Trump, using Twitter, Facebook and other social media outlets ... propaganda in the 21st Century. They also used targeted ads on media like Facebook to spread rumours about Clinton and messages in support of Trump. All very clever stuff ... and if you are bombarded with this it can influence your judgement.

 

As for old sayings ... tell that to Germans that supported Hitler, Russians that supported Stalin, Chinese that supported Mao, and Cambodians that backed Pol Pot? Old sayings are really just Bullsheet!!! 

 

I must admit though I can understand the twitteratti and Fb addicts being Clinton fans....but old mate, 55 year old plumber in <deleted> Idaho even seeing these ads?

That's a bit of a struggle to understand.Sort of seems what they were targeting was the wrong demographic.

I would have thought a few girls in wet tee shirts at truck stops with vote for the Don on them would have been more effective to get the red neck vote.

 

I hate to say this (I don't really) but I'm guessing the non vocal majority finally spoke.

Edited November 12, 2017 by tryasimight

[Slip]

1 minute ago, tryasimight said:

I must admit though I can understand the twitteratti and Fb addicts being Clinton fans....but old mate, 55 year old plumbers in <deleted> Idaho even seeing these ads?thats a bit of a struggle to understand

Do you use twitter?  It's full of redneck battfacked plumbers and otherwise.