Koi Ponds

[Lost in LOS]

I live in jomtien and want to have a large koi pond built with a waterfall at my house. does anyone know of a company that does good work and is reasonably priced ? Also, is there a good place to buy reasonably priced koi in pattaya/jomtien?

thanks in advance

[Naam]

I live in jomtien and want to have a large koi pond built with a waterfall at my house. does anyone know of a company that does good work and is reasonably priced ? Also, is there a good place to buy reasonably priced koi in pattaya/jomtien?

good kois and reasonable prices (fish feed too) at a pet shop located 3rd road not far from fly-over crossing 2nd/3rd road.

built a huge (150m²) fishpond 6 months ago (wanted to have a variety of fish) but have big green algae problems inspite of filling it up with plants, aerating by waterfall and filtering with pool filter.

contractor went overboard with concrete and steel. cost for pond 420.000, waterfall 45.000, two 1.2HP pumps and pool-filtersystem 29.000, plants and ~50 fish 45.000 Baht. overfeeding my fish caused them nearly to tiple in size within 6 months.

p.s. a real koi pond should be much smaller, not contain any plants and have a strong filtration system.

[Lost in LOS]

I live in jomtien and want to have a large koi pond built with a waterfall at my house. does anyone know of a company that does good work and is reasonably priced ? Also, is there a good place to buy reasonably priced koi in pattaya/jomtien?

good kois and reasonable prices (fish feed too) at a pet shop located 3rd road not far from fly-over crossing 2nd/3rd road.

built a huge (150m²) fishpond 6 months ago (wanted to have a variety of fish) but have big green algae problems inspite of filling it up with plants, aerating by waterfall and filtering with pool filter.

contractor went overboard with concrete and steel. cost for pond 420.000, waterfall 45.000, two 1.2HP pumps and pool-filtersystem 29.000, plants and ~50 fish 45.000 Baht. overfeeding my fish caused them nearly to tiple in size within 6 months.

p.s. a real koi pond should be much smaller, not contain any plants and have a strong filtration system.

Dr. thanks for the info on the koi store....... i know quite a bit about koi and ponds, had a 5000 gallon in america.......if you get a UV light and install it AFTER the filter right before the water goes into the pond it will get rid of your green water in a couple of days and keep it clear

would you recomend your contractor......I am looking for one now....if this were america i would build it myself but too much trouble over here.

thanks

feel free to PM me with any questions..............

jimmy

[Nawtilus]

That is very expensive for a pond, think he got you by the short and curlies a tad.

[Naam]

Dr. thanks for the info on the koi store....... i know quite a bit about koi and ponds, had a 5000 gallon in america.......if you get a UV light and install it AFTER the filter right before the water goes into the pond it will get rid of your green water in a couple of days and keep it clear

would you recomend your contractor......I am looking for one now....if this were america i would build it myself but too much trouble over here.

thanks

feel free to PM me with any questions..............

jimmy

i could recommend the contractor any day. actually he has built my pool as a subcontractor and was only willing to build my pond after i pressed him to do so. of course the pond was expensive but it was built pool-like with concrete and steel reinforcements which justifies the price. using thinner walls and bottom as well as reducing steel diameters would definitely bring the price down quite a bit. what i don't know is whether he takes on a smaller job like a 5.000 gallon pond. mine is around 105m3 = ~ 28.000 gallons. another problem is his lack of english. you would have to go through the general contractor who built my home. i will PM you with his name and phone-number.

"UV": i was thinking already of all kinds of solutions. the biggest problem is that the pond is obviously too big for normal filtration. i can't run the filter pump longer than 2 hours till the algae is blocking the filter completely. installing UV is another headache although there is not too much head pressure on the outlet (waterfall).

perhaps we should get together (i am living 10 minutes away from Jomtien) and exchange views over a beer or a glass of wine? exchanging views on constructing a pond of course. as far as kois are concerned i am a bloody newbie and would like to get advice from somebody like you who has relevant experience.

[Naam]

rebar pond

[KOI]

Dr. thanks for the info on the koi store....... i know quite a bit about koi and ponds, had a 5000 gallon in america.......if you get a UV light and install it AFTER the filter right before the water goes into the pond it will get rid of your green water in a couple of days and keep it clear

would you recomend your contractor......I am looking for one now....if this were america i would build it myself but too much trouble over here.

thanks

feel free to PM me with any questions..............

jimmy

i could recommend the contractor any day. actually he has built my pool as a subcontractor and was only willing to build my pond after i pressed him to do so. of course the pond was expensive but it was built pool-like with concrete and steel reinforcements which justifies the price. using thinner walls and bottom as well as reducing steel diameters would definitely bring the price down quite a bit. what i don't know is whether he takes on a smaller job like a 5.000 gallon pond. mine is around 105m3 = ~ 28.000 gallons. another problem is his lack of english. you would have to go through the general contractor who built my home. i will PM you with his name and phone-number.

"UV": i was thinking already of all kinds of solutions. the biggest problem is that the pond is obviously too big for normal filtration. i can't run the filter pump longer than 2 hours till the algae is blocking the filter completely. installing UV is another headache although there is not too much head pressure on the outlet (waterfall).

perhaps we should get together (i am living 10 minutes away from Jomtien) and exchange views over a beer or a glass of wine? exchanging views on constructing a pond of course. as far as kois are concerned i am a bloody newbie and would like to get advice from somebody like you who has relevant experience.

Hi there

I have some advice for you for building a koi pond.

You do it ones , but do it good , one's built it is going to be very difficult to change anything ,and a small mistake your pond will not work ,you need to understand the difference between a pond and a koi pond .

you should make it as deep as possible , but minimum 1.5 meter or 5 feet deep , if not the watertemp will change to much which will stress the fish , and can make them sick also they need to be able to swim from up to down to maintain a good body shape, second and most importend off all you should make bottum drains off 4 inch minimum (for gravite vet filtration),on the deepest point off your pond , minimum 1 for every 25 cbm , and third, standard size here in thailand for filtration is 30 procent off your pond size , so if your pond is 10 cbm your filter should be 5 cbm , NOTE a filter can only be to small , never to big. there are are some good koi filters for sale in bangkok , smaller but expensive ( nexus and answer )

And last If you built a filter , make sure that you design one also with bottom drains for easy cleaning , a typical koi pond filter is a vortex and 3 or 4 chamber filtration ,1 mechanical , and 2 bio chambers and 1 chamber with oystershell and or zeonite

Do not forget kois grow FAST when the water is warm , and eat a lot , so your pond will be quickly overstocked,

So all with all a good pond will cost a lot , but will bring you pleasure for a long time , a badly built pond will just bring you headache and waste off money.

good luck Willem ( if you need more advice you can mail me)

[thedi]

built a huge (150m²) fishpond 6 months ago (wanted to have a variety of fish) but have big green algae problems inspite of filling it up with plants, aerating by waterfall and filtering with pool filter

Dear Dr Naan,

I have myself a similar (but much smaller) fish pond near Khon Kaen. It was always full of green algae and I never saw any of my koys, until...

Last year I bought a filter system in Lotus/Tesco (from http://www.heissner.de/) and changed the pond following the instructions which came with the filter system. Since then I never changed the water and it is as clear as water out of a Polaris bottle.

My filter system could not handle your pond. Mine has just 4 m3 of water, yours is much bigger. But the main point was not the filter system. They recommended this points:

• Less fish: the total length of fish should not exceed 20cm for each 1000 liter of water.
  
• More plants: at least 30% should be a flooded swamp, 5 to 10 cm deep; plant reeds and the like there. 30% should be 50cm deep and you should plant lotus there. The rest is for fish and could be deeper.
  
• Reduce sun light: Lotus and floating plants.
  
• Less fertiliser: be carefull with the earth you use to plant and do not overfeed the fish. Ideally: do not feed the fish at all. Remove dead leaves (from trees) from the pond.
  
• Be patient: a pond needs time to get stable. Allow 2 or even 3 month for a big pond like yours to get clear.
  
• Allow snails to live in the pond. They usually come with water plants (mostly woth thouse that are floating and which you can easily collect in any swamp). Snails eat algae.
  

A word about snails: Snails may be infected by worms, which may result in itchy reactions if they try to pass your skin to enter into you (see http://dermnetnz.org/arthropods/swimmers-itch.html) or even bilharzia (which may be deadly for humans). The point seems to be, that the worms need alternate hosts: snails and birds. As long as there are no birds (ducks) you seem to be fairly save.

My pond has a lot of snails, but neither I, nor the kids that play for hours there, ever felt any itches.

An other point is what fish you take. Koys may nuzzle in earth where you plants are. I have now smaller fish (up to 5 cm long, red and similar in form to the 'pla gra siu' from the rice fields), which have a lot of young ones. I bought them on a market for 5 Baht. This has the advantage, that I do not have to worry, when the kids play with them.

It is not a 'real koy pond' as you suggest. But it works: I see fish and the plants look nice too. Our daughter and her friends like to play there for hours.

Regards

Thedi

[Naam]

thanks for your advice Thedi. my problem is that i had no idea of Kois when i built my pond. it is just too big to handle. the pond is neither overstocked with fish nor does it lack plants. unfortunately i have also a problem with plants. Lotus does not spread and a bunch of other plants look quite sicklish. this week a UV-lamp (75watts) will be installed and i am planning a bio-filter.

if worse comes to worst i will partition the pond and make it much smaller. here a photo (some months old when the plants still looked healthy).

[thedi]

Dear Dr Naan

Your pond looks great! But if taking Heissen's advice, there are not enough plants in it. About 2/3 of the surface should be covered with plants.

At first I had problems with plants too. One thing may be not enough earth. Another thing may be, that the cement is still too fresh (I used a black platic foil to cover it, even so my pond was made of concrete and not leaking at all). A third thing may be fish with too much appetite for fresh vegies.

Hope you will have success with your pond - it really looks wonderful.

Regards Thedi

[Naam]

Dear Dr Naan

Your pond looks great! But if taking Heissen's advice, there are not enough plants in it. About 2/3 of the surface should be covered with plants.

At first I had problems with plants too. One thing may be not enough earth. Another thing may be, that the cement is still too fresh (I used a black platic foil to cover it, even so my pond was made of concrete and not leaking at all). A third thing may be fish with too much appetite for fresh vegies.

Hope you will have success with your pond - it really looks wonderful.

Regards Thedi

Grüezi Thedi,

unfortunately now it does not look wonderful anymore. the expressions "disgrace" or "eyesore" would be much more appropriate

"plants and earth": i have two circulation pumps which distributed the earth from the plants evenly through the pond. result was that my pond was muddy but had no algae. so i am caught between a rock and a hard place.

[bkkmadness]

Some bottom drains in the pond might have helped you out there Dr Naam.

Really a Koi Pond can have plants, it's no less a Koi pond despite what some 'purists' in the hobby might say. The reason a lot of people don't have them in Koi ponds is because Koi like eating plants and it's often a waste of money.

What plants do you have in the pond Dr Naam?

Lotuses are not the most efficient plant for starving out algae, a fast growing bushy kind of plant would serve you better and lots of it. In the UK people would typically use Elodea (the common called oxygenating plant) but I don't see a great deal of it around Thailand. There are plenty of substitutes though and considering you'd need quite a lot a trip down to the local lake might help you out.

The best thing is that a lot of these plants do not need to be planted, they can be thrown in the pond and left to float around and will grow just as well.

One type of plants I'd recommend is called Hygrophila, there's a few varieties of it and it's easily found in aquarium shops in Thailand but as I say for your pond I think you'll need to find a source that can sort you out a large amount cheaply. It's a very fast growing plant, and you do not need to put it in muddy planted pots.

Hygophila Polysperma is probably the best and most commonly found.

Link

Link

You've installed a UV light now anyway haven't you? Was you careful to get the right wattage and have you got the right amount of water flow going through it? These are factors you have to consider when adding a UV to your filter system.

Edited July 5, 2007 by bkkmadness

[bkkmadness]

I'll tell you another trick for keeping that water from going green, barley straw weighted down under the water, but again you'd need a he11 of a lot of it and I haven't a clue where to get it in Thailand. It's a bit of an old school method though and gives mixed results.

Trouble is you are really fighting to beat those long days of strong sunshine out here. That's why I always recommend getting plants to starve out the algae, you can use that sunshine to your benefit.

Edited July 5, 2007 by bkkmadness

[Naam]

Some bottom drains in the pond might have helped you out there Dr Naam.

have five bottom drains.

Really a Koi Pond can have plants, it's no less a Koi pond despite what some 'purists' in the hobby might say. The reason a lot of people don't have them in Koi ponds is because Koi like eating plants and it's often a waste of money.

What plants do you have in the pond Dr Naam?

i have no idea

Lotuses are not the most efficient plant for starving out algae, a fast growing bushy kind of plant would serve you better and lots of it. In the UK people would typically use Elodea (the common called oxygenating plant) but I don't see a great deal of it around Thailand. There are plenty of substitutes though and considering you'd need quite a lot a trip down to the local lake might help you out.

nearly all my lotus died.

The best thing is that a lot of these plants do not need to be planted, they can be thrown in the pond and left to float around and will grow just as well.

One type of plants I'd recommend is called Hygrophila, there's a few varieties of it and it's easily found in aquarium shops in Thailand but as I say for your pond I think you'll need to find a source that can sort you out a large amount cheaply. It's a very fast growing plant, and you do not need to put it in muddy planted pots.

a TV-member suggested water hyacinth several months ago. filled up 50% of my pond with it. Kois gnawed off the roots, plants died.

You've installed a UV light now anyway haven't you? Was you careful to get the right wattage and have you got the right amount of water flow going through it? These are factors you have to consider when adding a UV to your filter system.

i selected the UV-unit according to my pond size and flow matches exactly the specifications of the manufacturer. started to run pump nonstop since approximately 20 hours. will wait a week and hope for results.

[Naam]

forgot to mention that i got some algaecide (brand name "Anti Green"), description only in Thai which i will add today.

[bkkmadness]

Hyacinths and Lotus are easy pickings for Koi, just like you said will go straight through the roots of it. I always had trouble with Hyacinths myself for the same reason. You really need something in there that grows so fast the Koi can't keep up with it and no matter how much they eat it still thrives. That's why I reco'd that Hygrophila, it's one of the fastest growing plants out there. In a smaller Koi pond you could have a separate section to the pond just for vegetation, literally part of the filter system but for your size of pond it's impractical.

With algaecide you get mixed results and some of the more effective types are so strong that they kill plants as well. In the end it can be a bit of a short term solution unless you want to keep chucking it in, but worth a try.

Good luck with the UV, it might take longer than a week though. 75 watts didn't sound big enough for your pond but it's been a long time since I used to sell them so forgot wattage/ pond gallonage rate now. How many gallons does that monster of a pond hold?

One day we'll see a nice pic of your pond with crsytal clear water I'm sure Dr Naam, don't give up.

[Naam]

Good luck with the UV, it might take longer than a week though. 75 watts didn't sound big enough for your pond but it's been a long time since I used to sell them so forgot wattage/ pond gallonage rate now. How many gallons does that monster of a pond hold?

approximately 20,000 gallons 72,000 liters. UV maximum flow rate is 20,000 liters/hour, my pump provides ~18,500 l/h but i can reduce the flow with a bypass to gain more efficiency.

One day we'll see a nice pic of your pond with crsytal clear water I'm sure Dr Naam, don't give up.

God willing!

[bkkmadness]

Well I guess that UV is as about as big as you can get on there without buying two of them, but it's gonna be a slow process I would have thought. Leave it running and see how it goes but don't expect a miracle in a week. Just going through my head here and checking on a few sites, we used to sell 8 watt UVs for 500-1000 gallon ponds. 20000 gallons is huge!

I notice you said that you only have a pump on for 20 hours a day now, that's not the pump that runs your filter system as well is it? The filter needs to be running 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

[Nomad97]

Dr Naam, there are a lot of good web sites that offer plenty of free advice on koi, koi ponds and filters and all. For example, www.therealmckoi.co.uk is full of good advice and but one of many. I appreciate that your pond is built and running but for sure your filtration system needs beefing up. Good luck.

[Naam]

I notice you said that you only have a pump on for 20 hours a day now, that's not the pump that runs your filter system as well is it? The filter needs to be running 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

some misunderstanding. the pump is running since 20 hours after the UV was installed and it is the filter pump. i have an additional pump just for recirculation and aeration via the waterfall.

[Naam]

Dr Naam, there are a lot of good web sites that offer plenty of free advice on koi, koi ponds and filters and all. For example, www.therealmckoi.co.uk is full of good advice and but one of many. I appreciate that your pond is built and running but for sure your filtration system needs beefing up. Good luck.

Nomad, i have checked a dozen websites and found a lot of contradictions. moreover, the advice given is neither applicable for my size of pond nor for the climatic environment of Thailand. if i extrapolate and follow strictly the rules (pondsize/volume flow through filter) i would need three pumps (each 3HP) and spend for the filtration of my pond something like 20,000 Baht a month on electricity. and that on top of my normal electricity bill of ~10,000 Baht monthly. a lot of families in Thailand have to live with that kind of money (or much less). as i mentioned already there's a limit to everything.

[bkkmadness]

Filter sizes and pump flow rates for different sized ponds are given assuming the pond will be stocked to it's maximum level.

You can certainly reduce filter sizes as long as you stock sensibly.

In fact with that size pond you could get away with quite a lot of fish without the need for a filter system at all and they would be perfectly healthy, though in this case plants would be advised to help keep the 'balance' of the pond.

The balance is the key thing any fish keeper is looking for whether they have a 10 gallon fish tank or a 20 000 gallon pond, keeping those the ammonia/nitrite and nitrate levels down are essential to a well balanced healthy environment for the fish and it'll cut down the amount of algae as well.

Edited July 6, 2007 by bkkmadness

[Naam]

Filter sizes and pump flow rates for different sized ponds are given assuming the pond will be stocked to it's maximum level.

You can certainly reduce filter sizes as long as you stock sensibly.

In fact with that size pond you could get away with quite a lot of fish without the need for a filter system at all and they would be perfectly healthy, though in this case plants would be advised to help keep the 'balance' of the pond.

The balance is the key thing any fish keeper is looking for whether they have a 10 gallon fish tank or a 20 000 gallon pond, keeping those the ammonia/nitrite and nitrate levels down are essential to a well balanced healthy environment for the fish and it'll cut down the amount of algae as well.

i have approximately 30 kois in it, size between 15 and 25 cm. definitely not overstocked. am i right or wrong?

[bkkmadness]

Absolutely right, not even close to overstocked. Once they all reach full size maybe then you will need to upgrade filteration, but that's a very long time off and I'm talking about fully grown 2-3 foot carp size here.

You could probably get a few crocodiles and a hippo in there yet.

[Naam]

Absolutely right, not even close to overstocked. Once they all reach full size maybe then you will need to upgrade filteration, but that's a very long time off and I'm talking about fully grown 2-3 foot carp size here.

You could probably get a few crocodiles and a hippo in there yet.

had one when i was in Africa. after that 15 years in Florida, lakefront plot and alligators galore. it was big fun and especially when feeding them i felt like Crocodile Dundee or that aussie chap who got killed last year. but keeping a croc is most probably strictly forbidden in Thailand

p.s. after administering the algaecide my pond looks like a bubble bath

[bkkmadness]

I'd bet you could keep a croc of some sort legally, not sure the koi would like it though! Gotta say if I had a big pond a couple of crocs would be tempting just like a James Bond arch villain. You can buy them down JJ market easily enough and it's not as unregulated as people think there really. You can even pick up baby cobras for 500-1000 Baht.

[Naam]

I'd bet you could keep a croc of some sort legally, not sure the koi would like it though! Gotta say if I had a big pond a couple of crocs would be tempting just like a James Bond arch villain. You can buy them down JJ market easily enough and it's not as unregulated as people think there really. You can even pick up baby cobras for 500-1000 Baht.

i would really like that but have no idea of the legal implications AND of course what the village management would say (if they knew). sooner or later a croc would become a big liability. got the one in Africa with a length of ~1.50m and because i liked to overfeed the croc nearly doubled in length within 4½ years. fortunately it was not a problem to get rid of it as we lived less than 1km from River Benue which at that time was swarming with crocs.

i don't want to insult the koi lovers... but crocs and alligators provide definitely more fun than fish

[steelepulse]

>>p.s. after administering the algaecide my pond looks like a bubble bath

So is the top of the water all bubbly?  Did the water clear up pretty well? I'm in the same boat and would like to keep the water clear without having to resort to frequent water changes.

[Naam]

>>p.s. after administering the algaecide my pond looks like a bubble bath

So is the top of the water all bubbly? Did the water clear up pretty well? I'm in the same boat and would like to keep the water clear without having to resort to frequent water changes.

it was only partly bubbly but half a dozen of my Kois are dead although i dosed it exactly. no clearing up at all but algaecide and UV-lamp seems to have killed a lot of algae. the water doesn't not look green anymore, just dirty

presently i am pumping out my pond completely and i strongly consider getting rid of most of my fish (if not all)

[steelepulse]

>>p.s. after administering the algaecide my pond looks like a bubble bath

So is the top of the water all bubbly? Did the water clear up pretty well? I'm in the same boat and would like to keep the water clear without having to resort to frequent water changes.

it was only partly bubbly but half a dozen of my Kois are dead although i dosed it exactly. no clearing up at all but algaecide and UV-lamp seems to have killed a lot of algae. the water doesn't not look green anymore, just dirty

presently i am pumping out my pond completely and i strongly consider getting rid of most of my fish (if not all)

That's too bad about your fish.  Thanks for the update on the algaecide.