Krabi kindergarten teacher being investigated for pupil abuse

[webfact]

Krabi kindergarten teacher being investigated for pupil abuse

"She went to drag my daughter from her class telling her to tell me to go meet the teacher. When I met with her, we had an argument and physical altercation and ended up at the police station."

By Kritsada Mueanhawong

 

 

After a gathering of interested parents and teachers from the Utarakij School students at Krabi Damrongtham Centre, calling for the expulsion of the kindergarten teacher of class 1 and 2, after she allegedly abused her students (and allegedly attacked parents as well as locking up her students), Krabi Primary Education Office Deputy Director, Songserm Mengbut, has updated the situation. He says that the school director has ordered the teacher to only teach her subjects alongside another teacher and has removed her from being the class teacher.

 

Meanwhile, a source from Utarakij School says that the conflict has been happening for almost 2 months and the internal investigation is still running. However, the investigative committee can only say that the accusations that the teacher locked up and abused the children appear to be well grounded with witnesses and evidence. A final report will take a little bit more time to conclude and will be filed with the Krabi Primary Education Office.

 

Regarding allegations that the teacher locked up students in the class room, the source says that the teacher has also had conflict with other teachers so whenever she has to leave the room, she says she can’t leave the students on their own, so locked them up.

 

Full story: https://www.phuketgazette.net/news/krabi-kindergarten-teacher-investigated-pupil-abuse

 

-- © Copyright Phuket Gazette 2017-11-16

[Thaiwrath]

2 minutes ago, webfact said:

He says that the school director has ordered the teacher to only teach her subjects alongside another teacher and has removed her from being the class teacher.

Shouldn't be in the class, or the school at all !

[NCC1701A]

" whenever she has to leave the room, she says she can’t leave the students on their own, so locked them up."

 

lock her up!

 

next case.

[JustAnotherFarang]

Teachers in Thailand only act in such a superior way because they think they are superior and deserve more respect for the lofty position they think they hold.  They cannot be questioned and will not accept fault or blame because they can hide behind the pathetic notion of "face" which is just another word for a fragile ego.  But this is how the country is as a whole, from government officials right down through to those who work in the markets and those who fall prey to believing anything else are just being suckered long enough so that the Thais can take advantage of the goodwill and generous spirit that others will give them.    The notion that something is seriously wrong is only ever discussed when the situation becomes a thai on thai scenario.  This is a nation of people who think they are superior and nothing can be questioned without being told that this is thai culture, the importance of being allowed to save face when found to be doing something wrong and that if you dont like it............go home.

 

I like the life I live but I do try to keep far far away from the maddening crowd. 

 

JAF

[ttrd]

6 hours ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

Teachers in Thailand only act in such a superior way because they think they are superior and deserve more respect for the lofty position they think they hold.  They cannot be questioned and will not accept fault or blame because they can hide behind the pathetic notion of "face" which is just another word for a fragile ego.  But this is how the country is as a whole, from government officials right down through to those who work in the markets and those who fall prey to believing anything else are just being suckered long enough so that the Thais can take advantage of the goodwill and generous spirit that others will give them.    The notion that something is seriously wrong is only ever discussed when the situation becomes a thai on thai scenario.  This is a nation of people who think they are superior and nothing can be questioned without being told that this is thai culture, the importance of being allowed to save face when found to be doing something wrong and that if you dont like it............go home.

 

I like the life I live but I do try to keep far far away from the maddening crowd. 

 

JAF

What to expect when Thailand are 100 years behind?

 

The School system in Thailand today is similar to Europe less than 100 years ago where it was common that Teachers were practicing different kind of physical punishment...

[Lupatria]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

the conflict has been happening for almost 2 months and the internal investigation is still running. However, the investigative committee can only say that the accusations that the teacher locked up and abused the children appear to be well grounded with witnesses and evidence. A final report will take a little bit more time to conclude

...and you wonder while it takes years to hold an election in this country

[Jimbo53]

10 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

Shouldn't be in the class, or the school at all !

Looks like the School Director is tarred with the same brush, allowing her to stay!!! Looks like the whole Thai education system needs reviewed! Too many loose cannons in the news lately!!!

[Khun Paul]

Teacher should be immediately suspended , and allegations investigated by the Police. This current investigation is utter B*****t.

[newatthis]

17 hours ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

 

I like the life I live but I do try to keep far far away from the maddening crowd. 

Yes, the best advice one could ever give.

[NextStationBangkok]

For Teacher's training, and later for a successful teaching job, psychiatric test is required.

 

No all can become a successful teacher. It is one of the most dedicated jobs, required high quality discipline, moral standards, and empathy.

 

Guru is the Sanskrit word that refers as teacher. Guru, is highly respected person after their parents, even gets higher  respect than God, in Buddhism and in Hinduism.

 

Because Gurus are going to build a future for a next generation, this should not no be a joke employing morons in the schools.

 

The same way, the pay scale should be higher, and living standard should be higher than any other government jobs.

 

Also a Guru should follow the Dharma(another Sanskrit word) passes his known skills to all students in the class without any partiality.

 

I have high respect on teachers.

[DLang]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

(and allegedly attacked parents as well as locking up her students)

[DLang]

8 hours ago, Jimbo53 said:

Looks like the whole Thai education system needs reviewed! Too many loose cannons in the news lately!!!

You forgot the taxi drivers.

 

Minivan drivers.

 

Police.

 

Monks.

 

And generally every aspect of society here. 

[kcpattaya]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

the conflict has been happening for almost 2 months and the internal investigation is still running

A simple CCTV observance camera would do the trick. 
However, they would probably be 'out of service' on most of the critical moments.
Education in general SUKCS in Thailand (Incl most of the "Renowned Intl Schools") - You do NOT get what you pay for! 

[farcanell]

22 hours ago, webfact said:

A final report will take a little bit more time to conclude and will be filed with the Krabi Primary Education Office.

So who files it with the police?

 

surely the teachers are not self policing.... although this would explain the many cover overs concerning class room allegations.

[JustAnotherFarang]

51 minutes ago, farcanell said:

So who files it with the police?

 

surely the teachers are not self policing.... although this would explain the many cover overs concerning class room allegations.

The report that they leisurely compile will be filed at a later date because they need time to blow away the smoke and create mirrors to deflect attention away from the school and those who should be held responsible.  If the furore does not die down then the teacher will be moved to another school so that everyone can start afresh and then all is forgiven when everything is forgotten.  This is the most common and standard practice for any thai who carries any influence so that they can avoid losing face and avoid the consequences of their actions.  It always comes back to this pathetic notion and its designed to protect those who need it the least.

 

JAF

[Baerboxer]

21 hours ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

Teachers in Thailand only act in such a superior way because they think they are superior and deserve more respect for the lofty position they think they hold.  They cannot be questioned and will not accept fault or blame because they can hide behind the pathetic notion of "face" which is just another word for a fragile ego.  But this is how the country is as a whole, from government officials right down through to those who work in the markets and those who fall prey to believing anything else are just being suckered long enough so that the Thais can take advantage of the goodwill and generous spirit that others will give them.    The notion that something is seriously wrong is only ever discussed when the situation becomes a thai on thai scenario.  This is a nation of people who think they are superior and nothing can be questioned without being told that this is thai culture, the importance of being allowed to save face when found to be doing something wrong and that if you dont like it............go home.

 

I like the life I live but I do try to keep far far away from the maddening crowd. 

 

JAF

 

Your experience is different too mine. I see a small minority, very small % of teachers who act like this. They are unfit to teach, cannot cope, or have issues which prevent them behaving acceptably.

 

On two occasions I've complained about teachers, both Thai and both female. One was given an official written warning and severely demoted. The latter, far less serious, was given a written warning but told it was a final one. 

 

My wife, a teacher by profession, argued that neither should have been sacked as they were remorseful, and punished. She argued that they had families to help support and should therefore be given another chance albeit under closer supervision. The Head Teacher of that part of the school agreed with my wife's summing up. Interestingly the School Director admitted she was more inclined to my view in the first case which was dismissal. Since those cases, to be fair, neither of them have behaved out of line. The first was due to someone being promoted way above their competence level, to a class home room teacher on and English program and not able to cope. The second was an old teacher who hadn't changed her ways and needed to.

 

In the rural areas and government school domain I think there is more use of physicality to instill discipline and more of an acceptance by parents of it despite it being illegal.

 

I've met a great many teachers, heads, directors, educationalists and academics here. The vast majority are fine and dedicated professionals. A small minority aren't. But to be fair, I can make the same observation about other countries I've lived in. 

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, farcanell said:

So who files it with the police?

 

surely the teachers are not self policing.... although this would explain the many cover overs concerning class room allegations.

 

The parents should file a complaint with the police. A few year's ago the then MoE Minister was encouraging all parents to do that and not be fobbed off with money, excuses, peer pressure, etc.

 

Having said that, what would you expect the BiB reaction to be?

[Gandtee]

14 hours ago, ttrd said:

What to expect when Thailand are 100 years behind?

 

The School system in Thailand today is similar to Europe less than 100 years ago where it was common that Teachers were practicing different kind of physical punishment...

I can attest to that, being schooled in London in the 1940s. Punishment was meted out by cane, ruler, slipper and Bunsen burner rubber tube. And the hand to the back of the head of course. The good old days?

[farcanell]

21 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The parents should file a complaint with the police. A few year's ago the then MoE Minister was encouraging all parents to do that and not be fobbed off with money, excuses, peer pressure, etc.

 

Having said that, what would you expect the BiB reaction to be?

Obviously my expectation of, and the actual BiB response would be different.... but it should involve some form of police attendance, investigation and (if substantiated) criminal charges.

 

civil punishment by the department should be secondary, and rely on results of a criminal conviction.

 

im of the same mind in the concurrent thread about the health ministry penalizing its official for sexual harassment.... before the police prosecute.

[JustAnotherFarang]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Your experience is different too mine. I see a small minority, very small % of teachers who act like this. They are unfit to teach, cannot cope, or have issues which prevent them behaving acceptably.

 

On two occasions I've complained about teachers, both Thai and both female. One was given an official written warning and severely demoted. The latter, far less serious, was given a written warning but told it was a final one. 

 

My wife, a teacher by profession, argued that neither should have been sacked as they were remorseful, and punished. She argued that they had families to help support and should therefore be given another chance albeit under closer supervision. The Head Teacher of that part of the school agreed with my wife's summing up. Interestingly the School Director admitted she was more inclined to my view in the first case which was dismissal. Since those cases, to be fair, neither of them have behaved out of line. The first was due to someone being promoted way above their competence level, to a class home room teacher on and English program and not able to cope. The second was an old teacher who hadn't changed her ways and needed to.

 

In the rural areas and government school domain I think there is more use of physicality to instill discipline and more of an acceptance by parents of it despite it being illegal.

 

I've met a great many teachers, heads, directors, educationalists and academics here. The vast majority are fine and dedicated professionals. A small minority aren't. But to be fair, I can make the same observation about other countries I've lived in. 

I have worked alongside the grass roots thai school system for 15 years now so I am well aware of what really goes on.  Teachers who are inept and/or lazy are often found in every public school.  Their inability to teach in a cohesive, professional and proper manner often leads to their frustration with the students as they believe it is the students who are stupid because they are unable/unwilling to blame themselves.  The youngest anuban and prathom students are also often "milked" by teachers who encourage parents to bring them to their extra tuition classes as they will tell parents their children are struggling to keep up when the truth is, the teacher is just looking to make extra cash on the side.  These students will then receive glowing grades at the end of term exams irregardless of their intellectual ability.  I have even in the past had teachers asking me to provide a "cheat sheet" for students for any exams I have set.

 

Teachers who hit students are also still very much the "norm" and students are led to believe that they deserve it (not finishing homework, talking in class etc etc) and that there is no need to tell parents.  If parents do come into the school to complain they will always be guided to the teachers superior who will be held in great esteem and they will be swayed or cajoled to believe that their child is not a good student and their behaviour warranted whatever particular punishment that was meted out.  They will also be told that the teacher is "remorseful or contrite" about the whole situation.  Parents will often take this at face value or allow the incident to pass hoping that there will be no further problems which is often the case as the teacher will then be pulled to one side and told that if they hurt that particular student again, there will be repercussions detrimental to their professional ambitions.  Nothing is actually done to improve and prevent corporal punishment from happening, they are just warned which parents have the most clout and will make the most noise.

 

And of course, the rote system is still very much alive and kicking in todays modern classroom as the teacher stands in front of the class droning on and on about subjects which students detest (such as thai history, thai language or social studies). There will be no time to question or challenge the thoughts or opinions of the teacher because critical thinking does not belong within the time constraints of rote learning and whatever pours from the mouth of a teacher is water that they must just drink.  The teacher will then often tell the students to rewrite what is written in the school books into their note books.    This creates the illusion to their parents that their children are learning a lot of information about so many things because they have so much information in the books that parents might look at. 

 

Other, more serious allegations of impropriety and ill behaviour such as grooming, sexual deviancy, mental bullying and physical violence are often swept well under the rug long before it comes to the attention of the mainstream media and it is only the advent of social media that brings many of these incidents to the attention of others. The reason of course is to save and protect the reputation of the school, the local authority and the career of those who should be held responsible.  There are far too many occasions over the years when teachers have acted in the most inappropriate manner and yet there are so few examples, if any, where the offender has been jailed.  It is as I have said, all smoke and mirrors and if the situation refuses to go away, then the individual is removed from sight.......and placed somewhere else to start afresh.

 

There are indeed a great number of teachers who do care about their students and I do not mean to tarnish all with the same brush but it only takes a few bad apples and a few bad practices to spoil even those with the best intentions.  If every teacher was performing well then the level of their expertise would also grow exponentially and we would see this in the end of term exam results but alas, unless you have paid for the privilege, year on year thai students are failing in huge numbers.  So whilst we can applaud the few, there are still far too many teachers failing the students and those teachers will often blame the education ministry, local authorities  and their students for their own failing ways. 

 

To say or suggest that this is the same of the teachers in our home countries is just not true whatsoever and any comparison in regard to this kind of acceptable behaviour in Thailand is entirely unfair as teachers in our home countries are held to the highest standards of their occupation and are removed from the profession or jailed accordingly for any inappropriate behaviour.

 

JAF

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

I have worked alongside the grass roots thai school system for 15 years now so I am well aware of what really goes on.  Teachers who are inept and/or lazy are often found in every public school.  Their inability to teach in a cohesive, professional and proper manner often leads to their frustration with the students as they believe it is the students who are stupid because they are unable/unwilling to blame themselves.  The youngest anuban and prathom students are also often "milked" by teachers who encourage parents to bring them to their extra tuition classes as they will tell parents their children are struggling to keep up when the truth is, the teacher is just looking to make extra cash on the side.  These students will then receive glowing grades at the end of term exams irregardless of their intellectual ability.  I have even in the past had teachers asking me to provide a "cheat sheet" for students for any exams I have set.

 

Teachers who hit students are also still very much the "norm" and students are led to believe that they deserve it (not finishing homework, talking in class etc etc) and that there is no need to tell parents.  If parents do come into the school to complain they will always be guided to the teachers superior who will be held in great esteem and they will be swayed or cajoled to believe that their child is not a good student and their behaviour warranted whatever particular punishment that was meted out.  They will also be told that the teacher is "remorseful or contrite" about the whole situation.  Parents will often take this at face value or allow the incident to pass hoping that there will be no further problems which is often the case as the teacher will then be pulled to one side and told that if they hurt that particular student again, there will be repercussions detrimental to their professional ambitions.  Nothing is actually done to improve and prevent corporal punishment from happening, they are just warned which parents have the most clout and will make the most noise.

 

And of course, the rote system is still very much alive and kicking in todays modern classroom as the teacher stands in front of the class droning on and on about subjects which students detest (such as thai history, thai language or social studies). There will be no time to question or challenge the thoughts or opinions of the teacher because critical thinking does not belong within the time constraints of rote learning and whatever pours from the mouth of a teacher is water that they must just drink.  The teacher will then often tell the students to rewrite what is written in the school books into their note books.    This creates the illusion to their parents that their children are learning a lot of information about so many things because they have so much information in the books that parents might look at. 

 

Other, more serious allegations of impropriety and ill behaviour such as grooming, sexual deviancy, mental bullying and physical violence are often swept well under the rug long before it comes to the attention of the mainstream media and it is only the advent of social media that brings many of these incidents to the attention of others. The reason of course is to save and protect the reputation of the school, the local authority and the career of those who should be held responsible.  There are far too many occasions over the years when teachers have acted in the most inappropriate manner and yet there are so few examples, if any, where the offender has been jailed.  It is as I have said, all smoke and mirrors and if the situation refuses to go away, then the individual is removed from sight.......and placed somewhere else to start afresh.

 

There are indeed a great number of teachers who do care about their students and I do not mean to tarnish all with the same brush but it only takes a few bad apples and a few bad practices to spoil even those with the best intentions.  If every teacher was performing well then the level of their expertise would also grow exponentially and we would see this in the end of term exam results but alas, unless you have paid for the privilege, year on year thai students are failing in huge numbers.  So whilst we can applaud the few, there are still far too many teachers failing the students and those teachers will often blame the education ministry, local authorities  and their students for their own failing ways. 

 

To say or suggest that this is the same of the teachers in our home countries is just not true whatsoever and any comparison in regard to this kind of acceptable behaviour in Thailand is entirely unfair as teachers in our home countries are held to the highest standards of their occupation and are removed from the profession or jailed accordingly for any inappropriate behaviour.

 

JAF

 

After 15 years or more here, you may wish to check with friends and relatives regarding the standards and abilities of teachers and the general well being of state schools in whatever is your home country.  I base my comments on discussions with friends and relatives in the UK, France, Germany, and the US. The overall consensus is things are far from rosy. Having said that, there are countries like Finland that are showing the way.

Certainly there has been a clampdown on physical punishment and abuse and AFAIK there isn't this way of exploiting extra tuition for financial gain in the UK. But it has been known for children whose parents are more active in assisting the school or play a role in the running of the school, or are engaged in local politics to be favorably looked on more favorably. And not just in the state sector. All countries have their own oddities. Thailand has it's own somewhat different ones. Many parents send their children to the extra tuition you refer to. The first poor teacher I referred too tried that one too. Interesting that the year before my daughter was advanced a full academic year based on her ability and then suddenly was "falling behind". Lot's of things wrong in the system here and as a parent you have to manage things positively and proactively. But let's not pretend it's all wonderful back home. It isn't. 

 

 

 

 

[JustAnotherFarang]

11 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

After 15 years or more here, you may wish to check with friends and relatives regarding the standards and abilities of teachers and the general well being of state schools in whatever is your home country.  I base my comments on discussions with friends and relatives in the UK, France, Germany, and the US. The overall consensus is things are far from rosy. Having said that, there are countries like Finland that are showing the way.

Certainly there has been a clampdown on physical punishment and abuse and AFAIK there isn't this way of exploiting extra tuition for financial gain in the UK. But it has been known for children whose parents are more active in assisting the school or play a role in the running of the school, or are engaged in local politics to be favorably looked on more favorably. And not just in the state sector. All countries have their own oddities. Thailand has it's own somewhat different ones. Many parents send their children to the extra tuition you refer to. The first poor teacher I referred too tried that one too. Interesting that the year before my daughter was advanced a full academic year based on her ability and then suddenly was "falling behind". Lot's of things wrong in the system here and as a parent you have to manage things positively and proactively. But let's not pretend it's all wonderful back home. It isn't. 

 

 

 

 

Things may not be as rosy in our home countries but then we have far higher standards and expect continuous and constant improvements within the profession so that our children can compete and excel in this every changing world.  It is for this reason alone that our teachers are immeasurably superior in comparison to the poor standards of teaching in Thailand, especially with regards to the things I have mentioned above.  We must also bear in mind that Thailand was reported as having the highest spending on education in the world and yet despite the state’s high spending on education and extra classes for children, Thai students' learning proficiency is extremely low.  The institute director at the time, called for education reform in short, middle and long terms, changes in teaching methods and evaluation systems while education courses must be developed in accord with human proficiency in the 21st century. This was in 2014 and very little or nothing has changed.

 

I do not wear rose tinted glasses as they do not suit my complexion but this is a forum about Thailand and this particular subject is about the abuse of children within the education system which has been often ignored in this country.  I would not call any of the issues raised above about thai teachers "an oddity" or even a "cultural difference" just because it occurs on a daily basis. The teaching system in Thailand is mindnumbingly stupefying,  with morally corrupt practices and the behaviour of those teachers who offend is utterly reprehensible no matter which way you try to spin it around.  I have been here long enough to know there is no reasoning with "whataboutisms".

 

But then who am I to tell the thais what to think.  I am just a foreign teacher on the inside, looking out, throwing pebbles into an asian ocean and wondering if the ripples that I will make will one day become part of a tsunami that will wash away all the detritus that thai children suffer.  But I can tell you one thing about the thai education system, it doesn't need any more apologists to explain through rhyme or reason why it is in such a sorry state of affairs.

 

Hail the whistle blowers but if no one listens, nothing changes.

 

JAF

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

Things may not be as rosy in our home countries but then we have far higher standards and expect continuous and constant improvements within the profession so that our children can compete and excel in this every changing world.  It is for this reason alone that our teachers are immeasurably superior in comparison to the poor standards of teaching in Thailand, especially with regards to the things I have mentioned above.  We must also bear in mind that Thailand was reported as having the highest spending on education in the world and yet despite the state’s high spending on education and extra classes for children, Thai students' learning proficiency is extremely low.  The institute director at the time, called for education reform in short, middle and long terms, changes in teaching methods and evaluation systems while education courses must be developed in accord with human proficiency in the 21st century. This was in 2014 and very little or nothing has changed.

 

I do not wear rose tinted glasses as they do not suit my complexion but this is a forum about Thailand and this particular subject is about the abuse of children within the education system which has been often ignored in this country.  I would not call any of the issues raised above about thai teachers "an oddity" or even a "cultural difference" just because it occurs on a daily basis. The teaching system in Thailand is mindnumbingly stupefying,  with morally corrupt practices and the behaviour of those teachers who offend is utterly reprehensible no matter which way you try to spin it around.  I have been here long enough to know there is no reasoning with "whataboutisms".

 

But then who am I to tell the thais what to think.  I am just a foreign teacher on the inside, looking out, throwing pebbles into an asian ocean and wondering if the ripples that I will make will one day become part of a tsunami that will wash away all the detritus that thai children suffer.  But I can tell you one thing about the thai education system, it doesn't need any more apologists to explain through rhyme or reason why it is in such a sorry state of affairs.

 

Hail the whistle blowers but if no one listens, nothing changes.

 

JAF

 

Interesting that for 15 years you choose to work in such a system and accept it, by continuing to be part of it and indeed adopting a "who am I to tell" attitude to what you consider so many wrongs.

 

The school systems in the so called third world, in developing countries, including here, are very different to the systems in the so called developed world. Yet education is falling young people and society in many so called developed countries.

 

Throw a pebble by all means. But don't expect those ripples to do anything, for no one will notice or know why the pebble was thrown. 

 

Change needs to be driven and the continuing acceptance of current by foreigners is an impediment to change not a catalyst.

 

I know many foreign teachers here, several nationalities long, medium term stayers and some new. They don't seem to have the same acceptance.

 

 

 

 

[JustAnotherFarang]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Interesting that for 15 years you choose to work in such a system and accept it, by continuing to be part of it and indeed adopting a "who am I to tell" attitude to what you consider so many wrongs.

 

The school systems in the so called third world, in developing countries, including here, are very different to the systems in the so called developed world. Yet education is falling young people and society in many so called developed countries.

 

Throw a pebble by all means. But don't expect those ripples to do anything, for no one will notice or know why the pebble was thrown. 

 

Change needs to be driven and the continuing acceptance of current by foreigners is an impediment to change not a catalyst.

 

I know many foreign teachers here, several nationalities long, medium term stayers and some new. They don't seem to have the same acceptance.

 

 

 

 

We both have vested interests but yours seems to be that of an apologist who cannot see the wood from the trees.  You say your wife is a teacher, as is mine and you say you have many academic friends in Thai society as well as knowing many foreign teachers and yet you do not see how rotten the core is nor elaborate on what changes need to be made.  Yours is just your own opinion based on those few you know or have met and lets be honest, they would never discuss their own failings with you whilst you hold them in what seems to be the highest of esteem. 

 

My vested interest on the other hand as a teacher of 15 years is to educate the children whilst also providing for my family.  That is why I am still here.  Who knows what difference the pebbles I thrown have made or will make.  I could blow my own trumpet and tell you of my triumphs and successes but I feel little need to win you over.  This conversation is not about you or your esteemed friends and associates.  Its not about me and my ego either.  Its about the children, less you forget the subject of this topic.  So please save your pithy replies if you have nothing of a subjective or informative interest to add to the topic.

 

JAF

[Baerboxer]

1 minute ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

We both have vested interests but yours seems to be that of an apologist who cannot see the wood from the trees.  You say your wife is a teacher, as is mine and you say you have many academic friends in Thai society as well as knowing many foreign teachers and yet you do not see how rotten the core is nor elaborate on what changes need to be made.  Yours is just your own opinion based on those few you know or have met and lets be honest, they would never discuss their own failings with you whilst you hold them in what seems to be the highest of esteem. 

 

My vested interest on the other hand as a teacher of 15 years is to educate the children whilst also providing for my family.  That is why I am still here.  Who knows what difference the pebbles I thrown have made or will make.  I could blow my own trumpet and tell you of my triumphs and successes but I feel little need to win you over.  This conversation is not about you or your esteemed friends and associates.  Its not about me and my ego either.  Its about the children, less you forget the subject of this topic.  So please save your pithy replies if you have nothing of a subjective or informative interest to add to the topic.

 

JAF

 

Yeah right, whatever.  Your're a real crusader, legend. 

 

This isn't your forum and all are free to express their views. Certainly not to be told  what they can and can't comment by you.

 

Your insinuation of naivety is somewhat patronizing and suggests you consider yourself to be an expert based on your own personal experiences. Are you the Head Teacher, a School director fighting what you believe to be a totally corrupt system? A corrupt system in which you and your wife are employed.

 

You have put forward comments that are subjective, based on working in, and seemingly making no effort to change, what you see as a corrupt system that delivers inferior outcomes. But, no government, has seen to make vast changes which suggests that education mirrors cultures, norms, values , views and beliefs of society.

 

Those who continually slag things off here have two choices. It seems apathy presents a third alternative.

 

 

[JustAnotherFarang]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Yeah right, whatever.  Your're a real crusader, legend. 

 

This isn't your forum and all are free to express their views. Certainly not to be told  what they can and can't comment by you.

 

Your insinuation of naivety is somewhat patronizing and suggests you consider yourself to be an expert based on your own personal experiences. Are you the Head Teacher, a School director fighting what you believe to be a totally corrupt system? A corrupt system in which you and your wife are employed.

 

You have put forward comments that are subjective, based on working in, and seemingly making no effort to change, what you see as a corrupt system that delivers inferior outcomes. But, no government, has seen to make vast changes which suggests that education mirrors cultures, norms, values , views and beliefs of society.

 

Those who continually slag things off here have two choices. It seems apathy presents a third alternative.

 

 

I must point out the juxtaposition of your own posting :

 

On one hand you try castigating my honest insight in the Thai school systems

 

23 minutes ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

Interesting that for 15 years you choose to work in such a system and accept it, by continuing to be part of it and indeed adopting a "who am I to tell" attitude to what you consider so many wrongs.

 

But then you have also said this as well, suggesting quite obviously that anything I will say to those in authority is entirely futile

 

49 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Throw a pebble by all means. But don't expect those ripples to do anything, for no one will notice or know why the pebble was thrown.

 

Before reverting back to your previous castigation that in someway I am complicit by assuming I am not saying anything

 

27 minutes ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

Change needs to be driven and the continuing acceptance of current by foreigners is an impediment to change not a catalyst.

 

You then continue trying to insult my efforts in teaching because I have told you what I have seen within the thai education system and why I think it is wrong :-

 

18 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

Yeah right, whatever.  Your're a real crusader, legend.

 

And then finish once again with your grand assumptions that I am part of the problem and apathetic even though I have taken the time to raise all the concerns with my postings and my feeling of futility of a nation that prefers to save face by burying their problems away from prying eyes.

 

22 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

You have put forward comments that are subjective, based on working in, and seemingly making no effort to change, what you see as a corrupt system that delivers inferior outcomes. But, no government, has seen to make vast changes which suggests that education mirrors cultures, norms, values , views and beliefs of society.

 

Those who continually slag things off here have two choices. It seems apathy presents a third alternative.

 

 

The only thing I am apathetic to is the slow change in Thai society and the poor education that many children receive.  Whilst you try to make this a more personal argument I will now refrain from responding to you as it seems you have lost sight of the topic or will not accept alternative thoughts and opinions which are not your own choosing.

 

Good day

 

JAF

[Baerboxer]

14 minutes ago, JustAnotherFarang said:

I must point out the juxtaposition of your own posting :

 

On one hand you try castigating my honest insight in the Thai school systems

 

 

But then you have also said this as well, suggesting quite obviously that anything I will say to those in authority is entirely futile

 

 

Before reverting back to your previous castigation that in someway I am complicit by assuming I am not saying anything

 

 

You then continue trying to insult my efforts in teaching because I have told you what I have seen within the thai education system and why I think it is wrong :-

 

 

And then finish once again with your grand assumptions that I am part of the problem and apathetic even though I have taken the time to raise all the concerns with my postings and my feeling of futility of a nation that prefers to save face by burying their problems away from prying eyes.

 

 

The only thing I am apathetic to is the slow change in Thai society and the poor education that many children receive.  Whilst you try to make this a more personal argument I will now refrain from responding to you as it seems you have lost sight of the topic or will not accept alternative thoughts and opinions which are not your own choosing.

 

Good day

 

JAF

 

What a confused reply. There is no juxtaposition accept in your comprehension of what I wrote. To be clear, in 15 years what have you done about changing the situation? And after 15 years, of being part of the system you believe so horribly wrong, how have you progressed with the system?

 

I value opinions and opinions based on experiential knowledge are always very valuable. But the fact issue is that the education system reflects the culture, PESTLE environment and society as a whole. It's somewhat arrogant to suggest that Thai society should change to one we come from. If ours was so great why are you here? A some what colonial view perhaps.

 

This is an example of someone working in teaching who shouldn't be. And an example of how Thai society deals with such issues, which isn't the same as the country foreigners come from. We all know that. But Thailand's culture has to evolve and really shouldn't copy others whose models are far from perfect.

 

Face saving is common throughout Asia and the Middle East. Problems are dealt with differently. There isn't a perfect culture or a world norm or such. And as a teacher that's something I'd expect an appreciation of. 

 

Good day

[Here It Is]

If it were my child being abused then the teacher wouldn't be returning to class as it would be a physical impossibility, unless they were stretchered in.  End of.

[JustAnotherFarang]

13 minutes ago, Here It Is said:

If it were my child being abused then the teacher wouldn't be returning to class as it would be a physical impossibility, unless they were stretchered in.  End of.

How does that old saying go "If we tolerate this, then the children will be next".  I think thats how it is in Thailand, wash, rinse, repeat year after year.  If more parents questioned and stood up to be counted this sort of treatment of children would never happen.

 

JAF

[farcanell]

21 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

There isn't a perfect culture or a world norm or such. And as a teacher that's something I'd expect an appreciation of.

I think the goal needs to be measured against worlds best practices (vs a Utopian ideal) these can be quantified... progress charted, modeling produced, and a way forward developed..... this response / progress is also measurable ( and can and should include for societal norms)

 

But..... when reality sets in, Thailand will probably do all of this in house, to save face... an old wolf, dictating sheparding policy for the benifit of the next generation   .....    of wolves.

 

until third party auditing is taken seriously, not much will change, unless social media can have an effect ( hello there), which may see a realistic outcome in this matter (especially as its becoming more common.... or more exposed)

 

ironically.... that someone knew that the video was of a wrong doing, and posted it, shows that progress is being made (against an entrenched establishment)...... albeit slowly.