FLR timing of application.

[crazydrummerpauly]

Really sorry about this - it is boring and i should have got it clear by now but i haven't.

 

About the TIMING of the FLR application....i was reading an older post by the esteemed 7x7, who has helped me many times, and i got confused about what was being said about the correct timing for putting in the Further Leave to Remain application.   7x7 - your "Although the visa is valid for 33 months, the residential requirement for FLR is 30 months so she does not necessarily have to wait until her visa expires, but can apply for FLR after she has lived in the UK for 30 months." - is that correct ?   The government site has this - "The earliest you can apply is 28 days before your current permission to stay in the UK expires."  Permission to stay (lasting 33 months) is not the same as 'after living in the uk for 30 months' ?  And i'm very conscious of the phrase 'earliest you can apply'.  I might be completely wrong, but the way i read it, the totally correct time to apply is during the last 28 days of the 33-month 'Permission to stay'.  That is quite different to saying it is any time after 30-months in the UK have been completed.  Please set me straight if i'm wrong - wouldn't be the first time!  

[rasg]

The earliest you can apply is 28 days before the current visa expires. The latest is to have the application in before the current visa expires.

 

By marrying in Thailand the visa is 33 months, not 30 months which allows three months to get everything in order before the move to the UK. As we were married in the UK my wife has two periods of FLR , 30 months each.

Edited November 17, 2017 by rasg

[crazydrummerpauly]

2 hours ago, rasg said:

The earliest you can apply is 28 days before the current visa expires. The latest is to have the application in before the current visa expires.

 

By marrying in Thailand the visa is 33 months, not 30 months which allows three months to get everything in order before the move to the UK. As we were married in the UK my wife has two periods of FLR , 30 months each.

Yep, it's a 33-month initial permission to stay if a couple turns up in the UK after marrying in Thailand - but that's never been an issue.  What i'm hoping to do is correct the guidance that it is ok to apply as soon as 30 months residence has been completed - see my quote from 7x7.  I agree with your first sentence.   Regarding the '3 months to get everything in order before the move to the UK' - i imagine that could be dangerous advice for folks with the 'Vignette' passport stamp, which only gives 30 days maximum before landing in the UK as i remember ?  Miss that and you'd have to get another vignette.  Maybe the 3 months to 'get everything in order' pre-dates the invention of the dreaded vignette - another money-maker for hm gov!  You managed to avoid that ?

Edited November 17, 2017 by crazydrummerpauly

[rasg]

NO idea. We were married in the UK on a six month fiancée visa. That doesn’t count towards the 60 months in the UK.

[7by7]

My opinion is based upon the requirements are laid down in the Immigration Rules Appendix FM: family members: Family life with a partner

 

FLR is covered by Section E-LTRP: Eligibility for limited leave to remain as a partner. There is no mention of any minimum time one must have lived in the UK for before one can apply; only that one must have a valid leave to enter or valid leave to remain when the application is made.

 

Whereas Section R-ILRP: Requirements for indefinite leave to remain (settlement) as a partner clearly states

Quote

Section E-ILRP: Eligibility for indefinite leave to remain as a partner

E-ILRP.1.1. To meet the eligibility requirements for indefinite leave to remain as a partner all of the requirements of paragraphs E-ILRP.1.2. to 1.6. must be met.

 

E-ILRP.1.3. (1) Subject to sub-paragraph (2), the applicant must, at the date of application, have completed a continuous period of either

( a ) at least 60 months in the UK with:

1. (i) leave to enter granted on the basis of entry clearance as a partner granted under paragraph D-ECP.1.1.; or
2. (ii) limited leave to remain as a partner granted under paragraph D-LTRP.1.1.; or
3. (iii) a combination of (i) and (ii); 

 

So as FLR is valid for 30 months, then applying for it after being in the UK with the initial visa for 30 months means when it expires one will have completed the 60 months residence required for ILR.

 

Of course, that is my opinion and if you want to be certain then there is no reason why you cannot wait until the expiry of her initial leave to enter before applying.

[crazydrummerpauly]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

My opinion is based upon the requirements are laid down in the Immigration Rules Appendix FM: family members: Family life with a partner

 

FLR is covered by Section E-LTRP: Eligibility for limited leave to remain as a partner. There is no mention of any minimum time one must have lived in the UK for before one can apply; only that one must have a valid leave to enter or valid leave to remain when the application is made.

 

Whereas Section R-ILRP: Requirements for indefinite leave to remain (settlement) as a partner clearly states

 

So as FLR is valid for 30 months, then applying for it after being in the UK with the initial visa for 30 months means when it expires one will have completed the 60 months residence required for ILR.

 

Of course, that is my opinion and if you want to be certain then there is no reason why you cannot wait until the expiry of her initial leave to enter before applying.

Hi 7x7 - sorry but i don't think its a matter of opinion in so far as the government site is the guide.  In this page - https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa 

- under 'When you can apply to extend or switch' - there is this - "The earliest you can apply is 28 days before your current permission to stay in the UK expires."   When the permission to stay is the usual 33 months, then suggesting an application can be made any time after the minimum 30 Months residence has been completed would be incorrect wouldn't it ?   I agree of course that the 30 Months minimum is important in contributing to the 5-year requirement for an application for ILR, but that is a different issue to applying for FLR.  I imagine the rule about applying in the last 28 days before the end date of a permission to stay is simply the government's way of controlling the flow of paperwork. 

Edited November 18, 2017 by crazydrummerpauly

[Here It Is]

Surely twenty-eight days prior to the date on your wife's biometric card?

[crazydrummerpauly]

2 minutes ago, Here It Is said:

Surely twenty-eight days prior to the date on your wife's biometric card?

Yep - agreed. That end-date coincides with the date given in the letter informing a successful application for initial entry of the length (33 months) of her stay.  Although the dates for the start of the permission on the letter and the card are not the same - my wife's card shows August 15th, 2016 as the start date of the BRP card, but the start-date for her 'visa' was September 1st. 2016.  The other set of dates - on the Vignette in her passport - are September 1st 2016 to October 1st 2016, so we landed in the UK half-way through that one-month window on the 16th September.  That is the date that the 30-month minimum period is counted from, ie, the arrival date not the visa date.  But my point is to clear away the idea that it's ok to apply for FLR at any time after the 30 months in the UK have passed - when the permission is 33 months, the period in the country needs to be a minimum of 32 months the way i read government guidelines.

[7by7]

21 hours ago, crazydrummerpauly said:

Hi 7x7 - sorry but i don't think its a matter of opinion in so far as the government site is the guide.  In this page - https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa 

- under 'When you can apply to extend or switch' - there is this - "The earliest you can apply is 28 days before your current permission to stay in the UK expires." 

 

21 hours ago, crazydrummerpauly said:

But my point is to clear away the idea that it's ok to apply for FLR at any time after the 30 months in the UK have passed - when the permission is 33 months, the period in the country needs to be a minimum of 32 months the way i read government guidelines.

The guidelines are a very simplified version of the rules, they do not include everything.

 

Your quote comes from the section  "When you can apply to extend or switch," which continues "If you’re extending your visa to stay with the same family member, any time you have left will be added to your new stay up to a maximum of 28 days."

 

Which means that if you apply earlier than 28 days before the initial visa expires then the FLR will be valid for 30 months and 28 days; not that the FLR application will be rejected because you applied too early.

 

Which, provided you have been in the UK for at least 30 months, is fine because you only need 60 months for ILR.

 

However, it is obvious that you believe otherwise, so let's leave it there.

 

 

[crazydrummerpauly]

7 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

The guidelines are a very simplified version of the rules, they do not include everything.

 

Your quote comes from the section  "When you can apply to extend or switch," which continues "If you’re extending your visa to stay with the same family member, any time you have left will be added to your new stay up to a maximum of 28 days."

 

Which means that if you apply earlier than 28 days before the initial visa expires then the FLR will be valid for 30 months and 28 days; not that the FLR application will be rejected because you applied too early.

 

Which, provided you have been in the UK for at least 30 months, is fine because you only need 60 months for ILR.

 

However, it is obvious that you believe otherwise, so let's leave it there.

 

 

Yep - agreed.  I am sadly pedantic about language, and if a sentence contains "the earliest you can apply is 28 days before etc..." i get completely hung up on that word 'earliest', which in normal usage is very simple to understand.  I do see yr point about the 60-month total of course.  A thought occurred to me - i wonder of the over-lengthy time many people report as being how long it took to get their application processed, is in fact due to them applying much earlier than they need to, and that such applications are simply put to one side so the end-of-permission ones can be dealt with - just an idle thought.  I'm rarely on here these days, so can i throw in a different topic which has been rattling around my head for years - when people are trying to pass the financial requirement, i wonder how many of those who have a property realise that they can, within the rules, rent out their house/flat for £X, and move around the corner to be tenants in a similar house/flat for the same £X , and then count the income from the renting of their own place towards the £18,600 or whatever their goal is depending on their family circumstances.  In the case of properties that might rent out for between £500 and £1000 a month, this goes a long way towards meeting the target.  I think the rental contract has to be at least 12 months already in place, and of course a proper legal arrangement which i personally would do through an estate agent.  In case anyone thinks i'm guessing here, i have an email from the immigration service confirming that this is true.  The reason is of course that the financial requirement, being nuts, has no 'means testing' component, so the rent one would pay out is irrelevant as far as the application goes.  But i would always check and double-check current guidelines, as we all know how much things can change in a couple of years.  

Edited November 19, 2017 by crazydrummerpauly

[crazydrummerpauly]

Yep, agreed. (Had to put this in an edit, as TV seems to have crashed for 5 minutes and the reply got posted twice!)  Why can't mistaken posts just be deleted ?

Edited November 19, 2017 by crazydrummerpauly

[crazydrummerpauly]

6 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

The guidelines are a very simplified version of the rules, they do not include everything.

 

Your quote comes from the section  "When you can apply to extend or switch," which continues "If you’re extending your visa to stay with the same family member, any time you have left will be added to your new stay up to a maximum of 28 days."

 

Which means that if you apply earlier than 28 days before the initial visa expires then the FLR will be valid for 30 months and 28 days; not that the FLR application will be rejected because you applied too early.

 

Which, provided you have been in the UK for at least 30 months, is fine because you only need 60 months for ILR.

 

However, it is obvious that you believe otherwise, so let's leave it there.

 

 

Yep - agreed.  I am pedantic about language, and if a sentence contains "the earliest you can apply is 28 days before etc..." i get completely hung up on that word 'earliest', which in normal usage is very simple to understand.  I do see yr point about the 60-month total of course.  A thought occurred to me - i wonder of the over-lengthy time many people report as being how long it took to get their application processed, is in fact due to them applying much earlier than they need to, and that such applications are simply put to one side so the end-of-permission ones can be dealt with - just an idle thought.  I'm rarely on here these days, so can i throw in a different topic which has been rattling around my head for years - when people are trying to pass the financial requirement, i wonder how many of those who have a property realise that they can, within the rules, rent out their house/flat for £X, and move around the corner to be tenants in a similar house/flat for the same £X , and then count the income from the renting of their own place towards the £18,600 or whatever their goal is depending on their family circumstances.  In the case of properties that might rent out for between £500 and £1000 a month, this goes a long way towards meeting the target.  I think the rental contract has to be at least 12 months already in place, and of course a proper legal arrangement which i personally would do through an estate agent.  In case anyone thinks i'm guessing here, i have an email from the immigration service confirming that this is true.  The reason is of course that the financial requirement, being nuts, has no 'means testing' component, so the rent one would pay out is irrelevant as far as the application goes.  But i would always check and double-check current guidelines, as we all know how much things can change in a couple of years.  

[7by7]

17 hours ago, crazydrummerpauly said:

i wonder of the over-lengthy time many people report as being how long it took to get their application processed, is in fact due to them applying much earlier than they need to, and that such applications are simply put to one side so the end-of-permission ones can be dealt with - just an idle thought.

 I haven't seen that many reports from people whose FLR applications have taken an excessive amount of time to be processed.

 

However, I doubt your thought is correct because when anyone submits an application for leave to remain, of any type, their existing leave is automatically extended until the decision on the application is made.

 

Also, those making a premium application in person usually receive their decision that say; regardless of how long is left on their existing leave.

 

17 hours ago, crazydrummerpauly said:

the financial requirement, being nuts, has no 'means testing' component, so the rent one would pay out is irrelevant as far as the application goes. 

Exactly; and that is the major fault with this ridiculous current financial requirement; absolutely no account is taken of outgoings!

 

A fault which has been obvious to all since this requirement was first mooted, and has been pointed out to the government many times.

 

So your, as absurd as it seems, your rental scenario is perfectly acceptable under the current rules; as long as the requirements regarding unearned income and those specific to property rental are met. 

 

Anyone who wishes to know more about this should see the financial appendix "6.1. Category C: Non-employment income – requirements" especially "6.2. Property rental – further guidance."

 

Income from Category C can be combined with income from Category A and Category B: salaried and non-salaried employment, Category D: cash savings and Category E: pension in order to meet the financial requirement.