A third of Thais believe road carnage is fate, conference told

[tryasimight]

On 18/11/2017 at 3:07 PM, keithpa said:

Its only a road death if dead at the scene of the accident. Die later, not a road death, fact.

Please provide a link to your fact. 

[4evermaat]

On 11/19/2017 at 10:31 AM, NanLaew said:

It's that total lack of spatial awareness commonly mis-labeled as the uniquely "Thai me-first attitude" where in reality, it is an Asian trait.

 

No, the me-first attitude combined with outright reckless regard for other passengers of the road that is uniquely Thai.  Not all Asians are so blatant about [collectively] disregarding the safety of themselves and other passengers on the road as Thais.   Not just the smaller vehicles, but the commercial size vehicles [coach buses, dump trucks, etc] are often the worst offenders especially considering their vehicle size and amount of people they affect simultaneously with their actions.

[Artisi]

On ‎18‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 11:27 AM, hansnl said:

Where could one learn how to drive?

 

To put things a little bit in the right proportions, in 2016 in the USA, 102 persons were killed in traffic, every day.

Nobody in the US makes a problem of that, it seems.

But other causes of violent deaths.....

did you bother comparing it to the population numbers - nah! why do that - it ruins the lop-sided comment.

[observer90210]

7 hours ago, balo said:

Don't worry , you can protect yourself against accidents, no ploblem. 

 

 

The gentleman would be no 1 salesman in the local friendly neighbourhood boiler room call center.

[quadperfect]

I agree. Its youre fate to die when you pass me going 120 kph in posted 40 kph weaving in and out of traffic.

Those bikers ,cars and trucks deserve everything they get.

Thai drivers are the worst i have experienced in the speeding cars,trucks,buses,bikes.

Its madness.

The whole country needs to go to a driving safety school.

This will never change. So i realize i am tempting fate every time i get on my bike. I do hope my highly evolved awareness of idiots around me keeps me out of the idiots way.

[TKDfella]

13 hours ago, joeyg said:

The activities you describe are not condoned by Buddha or his teachins.  On the contrary.  pickups full of speeding unresponsible drivers are not the conduct Recommended by Buddha.  However all of it comes under the perview of karma.  Buddha would be very disturbed at the road behaviour and in fact most of the other "things" that go on in Thailand.  Actually Thais know very little about the teachings of Buddha.  Its aterrible situation that will only get worse Read this about kama.  Its short and clear... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karma

Which basically what I've said. But I do disagree with you on one point you mention; 'Actually Thais know very little about the teachings...' This is not my experience. My ex Thai wife, her (large) family all studied the teachings as did a later GF and her family. My Chinese-Thai friends do so similarly with many books on the subject and regular visits to temples to have lessons taught my a monk/monks. So my personal experience would suggest to me that is isn't the lack of Buddhist knowledge that is the problem.

[joeyg]

58 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Which basically what I've said. But I do disagree with you on one point you mention; 'Actually Thais know very little about the teachings...' This is not my experience. My ex Thai wife, her (large) family all studied the teachings as did a later GF and her family. My Chinese-Thai friends do so similarly with many books on the subject and regular visits to temples to have lessons taught my a monk/monks. So my personal experience would suggest to me that is isn't the lack of Buddhist knowledge that is the problem.

Fair enough.  We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.  I was also married to a Thai-Chinese gal from a fairly wealthy family in BKK, for 8 years.  I've studied and aspired to Buddhism since 1974.  Ask any Thai what was Buddha's first teaching which is the foundation of Buddhism?  Rarely have I found one that can answer.  You can ask the basic, What are the Four Nobel Truths?  Again ABCs of Theravada Buddhism.  never got an answer.  The next ABCs, ask,  What is the Eight Fold Path?  Get back to me.  Oh yeah and there is always the topic of Karma/Kama.  Get back to me.

 

You are fortunate to have, "so many" Thais who can discuss Buddhism with you.  I have had a rare few.

 

The Buddhist forum here on TV gives some interesting perspectives on this subject.

Edited November 21, 2017 by joeyg

[Airbagwill]

On 18/11/2017 at 3:37 PM, keithpa said:

Its only a road death if dead at the scene of the accident. Die later, not a road death, fact.

Incorrect...this not how the stats are gathered...you're just regurgitating the myth.

[Kieran00001]

Thailand has a population roughly the same as the UK but has more deaths just on the road than the UK has total deaths from all external causes of death combined, that is murders, suicides and accidents.

This prompted me to look up some other Thai stats, I wish I hadn't!

Drownings, Thailand = >4000 while the UK = 168

Murder, Thailand = >5000 while the UK = 571

Other accidental deaths such as falling are fairly even as are suicides.

 

[wgdanson]

On 11/18/2017 at 3:27 PM, lonewolf99 said:

My ex Thai GF would get really upset when I thought out loud about what might happen - mostly when my life or limbs might be at stake.

"Why you think bad like this ? Why you not think good things all the time"?

Well the answer is I come from a "What if?" culture not "Never bleeding mind".

What if that baboon on a motorbike comes out from the side street and never looks?
What if this guy on my right decides he wants to turn into Macro/Gas stations before me when we are 20 yards from the entrance?

What if this middle aged woman on a motor bike spots cheap Som Tam across five lanes and decides to just go for it with tunnel vision, with several infants onboard?

 

the list is endless.....and one of the many reasons why it is an Ex GF...

 

Off topic but.
I tell everyone to get a cat now for a partner, forget women.
Cats never argue, affectionate when they need food and the rest of the time they do their own thing leaving you to get on with your life.

So that's your Pussy from now on, eh?

 

[TKDfella]

6 hours ago, joeyg said:

Fair enough.  We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.  I was also married to a Thai-Chinese gal from a fairly wealthy family in BKK, for 8 years.  I've studied and aspired to Buddhism since 1974.  Ask any Thai what was Buddha's first teaching which is the foundation of Buddhism?  Rarely have I found one that can answer.  You can ask the basic, What are the Four Nobel Truths?  Again ABCs of Theravada Buddhism.  never got an answer.  The next ABCs, ask,  What is the Eight Fold Path?  Get back to me.  Oh yeah and there is always the topic of Karma/Kama.  Get back to me.

 

You are fortunate to have, "so many" Thais who can discuss Buddhism with you.  I have had a rare few.

 

The Buddhist forum here on TV gives some interesting perspectives on this subject.

Yes, I do understand and appreciate your points. I have been a martial artist for many years and so have met and trained with many people with different philosophies (even my parents instructed me in meditation). But I haven't studied any of these philosophies in detail, only in as much as it applied to what I was learning at the time. And I do agree with you more than you suspect, for...I found that when I taught martial arts to Thai school children years ago I had to teach them how to meditate (at the very basic level).

Nor do I believe in an almighty and haven't done since a Bishop laid his hands on my head at my Confirmation (High Church of England). But I appreciate the value of Life and I do try to be respectful to all that entails.

Anyway, thanks for the 'chat', maybe we can do it again sometime.

[keithpa]

On 11/20/2017 at 8:29 PM, tryasimight said:

Please provide a link to your fact. 

The PMs office.

[keithpa]

19 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Incorrect...this not how the stats are gathered...you're just regurgitating the myth.

I omitted to state how long after the accident. What is the source of your information?

 

[tryasimight]

1 hour ago, keithpa said:

The PMs office.

That is not a link. 

[Airbagwill]

1 hour ago, keithpa said:

I omitted to state how long after the accident. What is the source of your information?

 

"Die later, not a road death, fact."

no you didn't, apparently.

if criteria and sources for road deaths are readily available to those who wish to inform themselves before making wild and inaccurate comments on road safety.

i have a large and detailed background in road safety.

i am not your wiki, you can sort that out for yourself.

but please get up to speed on a topic before you comment.

May I suggest you start by reading the WHO reports which show how they collate stats.

Then read through the various papers presented by the Thai government, NGOs and intrnational organisations currently involved in monitoring and researching road safety in Thailand...or you can read my previous posts on the matter.

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Airbagwill

[keithpa]

1 hour ago, Airbagwill said:

"Die later, not a road death, fact."

no you didn't, apparently.

if criteria and sources for road deaths are readily available to those who wish to inform themselves before making wild and inaccurate comments on road safety.

i have a large and detailed background in road safety.

i am not your wiki, you can sort that out for yourself.

but please get up to speed on a topic before you comment.

May I suggest you start by reading the WHO reports which show how they collate stats.

Then read through the various papers presented by the Thai government, NGOs and intrnational organisations currently involved in monitoring and researching road safety in Thailand...or you can read my previous posts on the matter.

 

Read them all, except your previous posts as they are just repeat of what is always posted every time there is a road accident, not interested.

[Kieran00001]

23 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Incorrect...this not how the stats are gathered...you're just regurgitating the myth.

 

It is how they are gathered but then the WHO adjust the given stats accordingly.  They state on their table, "Adjusted for 30-day definition of a road traffic death"

Edited November 22, 2017 by Kieran00001

[Airbagwill]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

It is how they are gathered but then the WHO adjust the given stats accordingly.  They state on their table, "Adjusted for 30-day definition of a road traffic death"

Read the paper on gathering stats by the WHO...I'm not your teacher.

[Airbagwill]

Just now, Airbagwill said:

Read the paper on gathering stats by the WHO...I'm not your teacher.

QED

[Airbagwill]

2 hours ago, keithpa said:

Read them all, except your previous posts as they are just repeat of what is always posted every time there is a road accident, not interested.

If you'd read them all you wouldn't be asking such basic questions.

You also seem to imply you are sure of the total number..... How naive. Anyone thinks they've read "everything" on a subject is just plain dumb.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Airbagwill

[Artisi]

23 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Read the paper on gathering stats by the WHO...I'm not your teacher.

Correct, you're not anyone's teacher even though you considered yourself the source of all things pertaining to road safety backed with very shallow non committal statements of supposed fact. 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Artisi

[Kieran00001]

30 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

Read the paper on gathering stats by the WHO...I'm not your teacher.

 

I did!  That is how I know that Thailand defines road deaths as died at the scene.  WHO adjusts this figure to fit into their 30 day definition for their own table, it is all quite clearly written on the WHO reports, not sure how you could have gotten yourself confused, teacher!

 

DATA Reported road traffic fatalities (2007) 12 492f (78% males, 22% females)

f Police data, defined as died at the crash scene

http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/44122/1/9789241563840_eng.pdf

 

 

[joeyg]

4 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

Read the paper on gathering stats by the WHO...I'm not your teacher.

"A wise man can even learn from a fool" - Buddha

[Airbagwill]

17 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I did!  That is how I know that Thailand defines road deaths as died at the scene.  WHO adjusts this figure to fit into their 30 day definition for their own table, it is all quite clearly written on the WHO reports, not sure how you could have gotten yourself confused, teacher!

 

DATA Reported road traffic fatalities (2007) 12 492f (78% males, 22% females)

f Police data, defined as died at the crash scene

http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/44122/1/9789241563840_eng.pdf

 

 

What you don't seem to realise is the the police are not the main source for RRI stats there are 10 sources and 3 authorities. Get your facts straight. the stats used here and elsewhere are NOT the police figures alone. You need also to understand how stats are collated.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Airbagwill

[Artisi]

13 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

What you don't seem to realise is the the police are not the main source for RRI stats there are 10 sources and 3 authorities. Get your facts straight. the stats used here and elsewhere are NOT the police figures alone. You need also to understand how stats are collated.

More unsubstantiated reference, would you like to list the 10 sources and the 3 authorities.

Or as usual just duck for cover when asked to justified your claims.

[Kieran00001]

20 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

What you don't seem to realise is the the police are not the main source for RRI stats there are 10 sources and 3 authorities. Get your facts straight. the stats used here and elsewhere are NOT the police figures alone. You need also to understand how stats are collated.

 

The police stats are the ones that the WHO use and then adjust, and also the ones I see quoted most often, likely because they are the ones on the wiki page comparing road traffic deaths, their adjusted figure matches the one the "other agencies" mention in the above article. I have no idea how the lower figure that was presented in the conference was come to, but for the WHO figures we know as they tell us, and it is the police figures and only of those who died at the scene.  Now, any links to anything that you claim?

[Airbagwill]

18 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

The police stats are the ones that the WHO use and then adjust, and also the ones I see quoted most often, likely because they are the ones on the wiki page comparing road traffic deaths, their adjusted figure matches the one the "other agencies" mention in the above article. I have no idea how the lower figure that was presented in the conference was come to, but for the WHO figures we know as they tell us, and it is the police figures and only of those who died at the scene.  Now, any links to anything that you claim?

No they are not...get your facts straight! Learn how stats are gathered.

You obviously haven't read their paper on gathering stats.

You might also want to consider why police total deaths are around 15000 whilst WHO talk about 24000.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Airbagwill

[Kieran00001]

5 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

No they are not...get your facts straight! Learn how stats are gathered.

You obviously haven't read their paper on gathering stats.

You might also want to consider why police total deaths are around 15000 whilst WHO talk about 24000.

 

I am not sure if you are attempting to troll or not, but for the last time, this is from WHO and is regarding Thailand, take a look and pay special attention to where it says "police data".

 

"DATA Reported road traffic fatalities (2007) 12 492f (78% males, 22% females)

f Police data, defined as died at the crash scene"

http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/44122/1/9789241563840_eng.pdf

 

The reason that the police data is different to the WHO data is that they adjust all the different countries data to fit their own 30 day definition.

[Airbagwill]

25 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I am not sure if you are attempting to troll or not, but for the last time, this is from WHO and is regarding Thailand, take a look and pay special attention to where it says "police data".

 

"DATA Reported road traffic fatalities (2007) 12 492f (78% males, 22% females)

f Police data, defined as died at the crash scene"

http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/44122/1/9789241563840_eng.pdf

 

The reason that the police data is different to the WHO data is that they adjust all the different countries data to fit their own 30 day definition.

As I said you are incorrect. If you are not prepared to do the research how can you comment?

One has to wonder if you have even bothered to read the document you have cited. I have a while back

 

Edited November 24, 2017 by Airbagwill

[Artisi]

15 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I am not sure if you are attempting to troll or not, but for the last time, this is from WHO and is regarding Thailand, take a look and pay special attention to where it says "police data".

 

"DATA Reported road traffic fatalities (2007) 12 492f (78% males, 22% females)

f Police data, defined as died at the crash scene"

http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/44122/1/9789241563840_eng.pdf

 

The reason that the police data is different to the WHO data is that they adjust all the different countries data to fit their own 30 day definition.

Don't hold your breath for any reasonable comment other than I'm not your teacher, get your facts straight, learn how stats are gathered.  Here you have the classic continual cop-out to any substantial statement/s, the realm of the uninformed, covering their arse, and their inadequacies, it also shows a shallow depth of perceived knowledge.    

Normally, those with real knowledge have an interest in informing others, and usually happy to share that knowledge, not continual put-downs or glib comments.