What Should I Do?

[rollergirl]

A friend of mine came to me with a problem the other night, to cut a long story short she said that her Mother has threatened to kill herself and her sister and Father don’t want anything to do with it,

I told her she should get her looked at by a doctor but she seemed reluctant to do so,

My question is should I try to get someone to step in and help her??

I know it isn’t my business but if god forbid she did kill herself I think it would play on my conscience.

I’m not really convinced that she would kill herself I think it is attention seeking, but there is always that chance that she is serious.

Any advice greatly appreciated

[Mid]

nice friends ................................................................................

...............................................

[leisurely]

That was a truly helpful post Mid. Be proud.

Rollergirl, it wasn't very clear whether the mother wanted to kill herself only or include the sister. Whatever. What nationality is the mother? Does she have any history of mental illness? Is she the sort who would make threats like that for attention? Is she menopausal?

[sbk]

If she is Thai I might suggest finding a good monk, sometimes people here can get great relief from a monk's advice when they won't listen to anyone else.

To posters: if you don't have anything to offer please don't bother to post. Smart aleck comments are not welcome

[donna]

i agree with sbk here. definitely get her to a monk. im sure he will sort her out.

[rollergirl]

She was told a couple of months ago by her GP that she was suffering from depression, She was given medication but I have no clue if she takes it or if it works, she isn’t Thai so a monk is not the answer unfortunately.

My friends mother has threatened to kill her self, but her family don’t seem to be interested, she is at an age that she could be menopausal, another thing is that my friend just split up with her boyfriend and may be blowing things out of proportion to seek some attention herself,

My brother in law is a doctor who specializes in mental health but if I tell him about it is he bound by his ethics to report it??

I really don’t know what to do in this situation, I don’t want to be the one who blows things out of proportion.

If you were in my situation what do you think you would do?

Thank you so much for taking the time to read this and for any suggestions you may have.

[sbk]

I suggest you have a real heart to heart with her, if you know her well enough that is, make sure she is taking her meds. They can be extremely beneficial.

The suicide threats could be a cry for attention from a family that seems to be ignoring her. Perhaps a word with the most sympathetic member might help as well.

[hpxt858]

She was told a couple of months ago by her GP that she was suffering from depression, She was given medication but I have no clue if she takes it or if it works, she isn't Thai so a monk is not the answer unfortunately.

My friends mother has threatened to kill her self, but her family don't seem to be interested, she is at an age that she could be menopausal, another thing is that my friend just split up with her boyfriend and may be blowing things out of proportion to seek some attention herself,

My brother in law is a doctor who specializes in mental health but if I tell him about it is he bound by his ethics to report it??

I really don't know what to do in this situation, I don't want to be the one who blows things out of proportion.

If you were in my situation what do you think you would do?

Thank you so much for taking the time to read this and for any suggestions you may have.

I think all health professionals are ethically obligated to act on suicidal threats; however, that being said I am not familiar with the laws in Thailand. If it were the USA, and you told me this, I would ask if she had any previous attempts at suicide, does she have a plan and means to carry out the plan? If yes to any of these, you can only suggest she go to an emergency room for evaluation.

My guess is if you tell your brother this, he would need more history from the mother or daughter before acting without the mother's consent. You generally are not obligated, nor can you report if you don't the patient name/address/history.

Hope this helps

Edited January 14, 2007 by hpxt858

[rollergirl]

I hardly know her at all, she is my friends mother and my friend is the only one in her family who is showing any concern, I am a little sceptical about the whole thing as I can't believe that her family is turning their back on her.

If I did get someone to step in and help what would be the downside???

[ltdknowledge]

I know this is the ladies forum but i hope you don't mind me having my say.

Personally if your friend has come to you she maybe asking you for some help without actually saying it.. The chance are that she is finding it hard to deal with to the extent that she doesn't know what to do

Personally i would step in but thats just me.

Edited January 14, 2007 by ltdknowledge

[donna]

if you go talk to her, relay some situation that you have been in yourself and how you got over it. sometimes people just want to hear that its all gonna be ok.

she needs something to look forward to and some positive re-inforcement. i have recently met a guy in phuket who helped me get through a pretty tough time. my whole outlook has completely changed, and i can only praise this man. why not give him a call and see if he can give you any help over the phone? its worth a shot.

Dr Richard Patrick Cracknell Ph.D.

Advanced EFT (Emotional Freedom Techniques) Practitoner

'trauma, phobia, painless and lasting relief'

076 330 889

[sriracha john]

I hardly know her at all, she is my friends mother and my friend is the only one in her family who is showing any concern, I am a little sceptical about the whole thing as I can't believe that her family is turning their back on her.

If I did get someone to step in and help what would be the downside???

You need to strongly encourage your friend to take her mother to her doctor ASAP and report the suicidal comments. If she's reluctant, I would make the offer to accompany them both. There should NEVER be a time when someone voicing suicidal ideations is summarily dismissed or not taken seriously. The mother needs to be evaluated now.

Even though I question why a GP is treating her for her depression, allow this health professional involved to make the determination regarding the potential lethality of the mother's intentions. Furthermore, it would be most appropriate for the mother to be evaluated by a psychiatrist, which the GP can help make arrangements for and I would encourage you to tell your friend to strongly recommend to the GP that he makes this referral.

What's the downside to getting involved? The family might get upset with you for becoming involved.

What's the downside to not getting involved? The mother commits suicide.

Up to you to determine which is less desireable or has the greater consequence.

I wish you and your friend and her mother all the best in your endeavors to deal with this difficult problem.

[sriracha john]

Just to add..... thousands of completed suicides have been done by people about whom other people have stated, "I thought they would never do it" or "I didn't think she was serious" or "I know now that I really should have done something earlier" or "He/she didn't seem the type to do it" or "I didn't think it was my place to interfere" or .... or....

Edited January 14, 2007 by sriracha john

[donna]

i agree sriracha john. a dear friend of mine suffers from a condition similar to bi-polar. she has attempted suicide on a number of occasions but has not succeeded so far. many 'friends' have turned their back on her as they are 'tired' of this 'attention seeking behaviour'.

i cannot belive this. i have not deserted her and after one attempt managed to get her flown from laos to bkk, put into hospital in bkk (Bangkok Hospital has one of the best psychiatric wards in the country apparently) treated for a few weeks in there (under 24 hour watch) and then got her family over here to take her home.

sure it was stressful, but she is still alive. she shouldnt be but she is.

what i am getting at, i guess, is that my friend never mentioned anything to make me think that she was not coping. it just 'happened' and i was shocked.

rollergirl, this woman is calling for help and she needs to get it as soon as possible. she may not go through with these thoughts, but to verbalise it means that she is thinking thats the only way out of the hole she is in.

good luck. know that we are all thinking of you.

[teacup]

Here is my 2 satangs thought...

A suicidal person usually is carrying around some burden that they feel they just can't handle anymore. Offer to listen as she vents her feelings of despair, anger and loneliness. Avoid trying to offer quick solutions or going against her feelings. How big she perceives the problem to be and how much she is hurting over it is what counts. Any rational arguments do little good to persuade a person when they are in this state of mind. Instead offer your empathy compassion for what she is feeling without making any judgments. The longer you keep her talking, the more you can take the edge off her desperation thus reduce the emotional burden she carrying and give her time to calm down. As her momentum winds down, it will be harder for her to act on her original feelings, hopefully.

If her condition is worsen as you're listening to her, then don’t hesitate to seek the police or professional help

Edited January 14, 2007 by teacup

[sriracha john]

If your friend's mother is voicing suicidal thoughts, she needs nothing short of a professional evaluation now.

[ThaiFelix]

Here is my 2 satangs thought...

A suicidal person usually is carrying around some burden that they feel they just can't handle anymore. Offer to listen as she vents her feelings of despair, anger and loneliness. Avoid trying to offer quick solutions or going against her feelings. How big she perceives the problem to be and how much she is hurting over it is what counts. Any rational arguments do little good to persuade a person when they are in this state of mind. Instead offer your empathy compassion for what she is feeling without making any judgments. The longer you keep her talking, the more you can take the edge off her desperation thus reduce the emotional burden she carrying and give her time to calm down. As her momentum winds down, it will be harder for her to act on her original feelings, hopefully.

If her condition is worsen as you're listening to her, then don't hesitate to seek the police or professional help

Agreed teacup, "give her time to calm down", but not alone. I have had first hand experience with this sort of thing and yes, I believe they are "attention seeking"...because they are looking for a solution to the 'emotional burden'. You need to be there for them and to provide as much comfort as possible. The cases I know of made a lot of threats but didnt do anything until they were on their own for a while. I feel sure they would still be here today if they werent left alone.

[gburns57au]

First off, we dont know where this woman lives, we know she is not Thai that is all.

Second, The daughter was asking for advice from the OP, the OP doesnt I presume know the mother or not very well at least.

At this stage the woman has only talked about it...there is no report of previous attempts that we know about....

The OP should advice the daughter to report this to the GP who is treating the mother. As the treating Doctor he then has a responsibility to investigate it further.

[rollergirl]

First off, we dont know where this woman lives, we know she is not Thai that is all.

Second, The daughter was asking for advice from the OP, the OP doesnt I presume know the mother or not very well at least.

At this stage the woman has only talked about it...there is no report of previous attempts that we know about....

The OP should advice the daughter to report this to the GP who is treating the mother. As the treating Doctor he then has a responsibility to investigate it further.

This post sums it up pretty well, I don't relly know the woman at all apart from saying hello from time to time, Thats what my problem is I am not close to her at all and it's not my place to do anything, but if anything happened and I could have done something to prevent it I think that would be something that would haunt me for a long time, I think the best thing I can do is try to get her some help. That way I will have made an effort, although that feels a little like passing the buck. As someone said if it is a storm in a tea cup, I think I can live with someone being pissed off with me.

Thanks guys for all the replies, some very good advice from you good people.

I will keep you posted.

[sriracha john]

Thats what my problem is I am not close to her at all and it's not my place to do anything, but if anything happened and I could have done something to prevent it I think that would be something that would haunt me for a long time, I think the best thing I can do is try to get her some help. That way I will have made an effort, although that feels a little like passing the buck. As someone said if it is a storm in a tea cup, I think I can live with someone being pissed off with me.

Thanks guys for all the replies, some very good advice from you good people.

I will keep you posted.

I would take the position that since you've been made aware of the situation that it is your place to do "something" about it.

That "something" is what you have you stated your intentions are and that is to get her some help via a professional evaluation.

You are not passing the buck by doing so. Your friend's mother is in need of a professional's opinion and you are not in the postion to provide that yourself. The actions outlined are the most appropriate in this situation and so you should not have any negative feelings regarding these actions.

I wish you all the best and look forward to any follow-up posts you care to provide.

Once again, best of luck to all concerned.

[Jamesyboi]

sorry to hear about your problem, talking is usually a good thing if she can let everything out rather than bottle it up, just curious what nationality is she ?

[November Rain]

I've been following this topic with interest, but not written anything, as I wasn't sure what to put. It's a really difficult situation for you, Rollergirl & I sympathise. It's perhaps more difficult than if it were someone you knew well.

I think the way you've decided (reporting it to/getting her to see a health professional) is the best way to go. My father took his life 4 years ago. Unlike your friends mother, though, he gave us no inkling of his intentions, even starting an elaborate deception in the weeks leading up to his death, so we thought things in his life were getting better. Until the day he died, if you'd asked me "would he do this?" I'd have been absolutely sure he wouldn't. So, you never know, and it's always best to err on the side of safety & caution.

My deep respect to you in wanting to help someone whom you don't know very well, even if it does run the risk of the family/her not being so happy with you. If anyone, even a complete stranger, had managed to stop my father, they would have had my undying gratitude. Good luck.

[rollergirl]

I've been following this topic with interest, but not written anything, as I wasn't sure what to put. It's a really difficult situation for you, Rollergirl & I sympathise. It's perhaps more difficult than if it were someone you knew well.

I think the way you've decided (reporting it to/getting her to see a health professional) is the best way to go. My father took his life 4 years ago. Unlike your friends mother, though, he gave us no inkling of his intentions, even starting an elaborate deception in the weeks leading up to his death, so we thought things in his life were getting better. Until the day he died, if you'd asked me "would he do this?" I'd have been absolutely sure he wouldn't. So, you never know, and it's always best to err on the side of safety & caution.

My deep respect to you in wanting to help someone whom you don't know very well, even if it does run the risk of the family/her not being so happy with you. If anyone, even a complete stranger, had managed to stop my father, they would have had my undying gratitude. Good luck.

Really sorry about your Father November Rain,

I will be making calls today to try to get some movement on the situation, I will keep you all posted.

[Sheryl]

As some other posters have said, suicide threats should never be dismissed. Coming from someone known to be depressed, they are all the more serious...VERY serious. There is a myth that people who threaten suicide don't actually do it. It is not true. While some people kill themselves without having let anyone know how they were feeling, many suicides had made prior threats. Women in particular are apt to make threats or even mild attempts before actually killing themselves.

You are doing the right thing by getting involved, and you should do everything in your power to see that she gets immediate help, even if it annoys her family. For 2 reasons: (1) it is the right thing to do and (2) no amount of unpleasant reaction from that family will equal how bad you will feel if she kills herself and you hadn't done all you could.

As she already has a doctor who knows she is depressed, he/she should be imemdiately informed. Try to get the daughter to do it but if she won't, personally, I'd call him myself. He needs to know. He has a professional responsibility and also, you can be sure, he will feel quite badly if she kills herself, wondering if he had done all he could.

I don't know if she is being treated for her depression, but the information that she has made a suicide threat would influence mst doctors in deciding whether to put the patient on medication and also which drug (some anti-depressents are slower than others to kick in, and that can be dangerous if the patient has suicidal thoughts).

Likewise, as there is a family member who is in the mental health field, that person should be informed if they haven't been already.

Lastly, in many places there are hotlines you can call...in the case of Thailand, the Good Samaritans. Make sure she and her daughter have the number and if you like, call them yourself for further advice.

Good luck, to you and her, and thanks for caring. Trust your instincts.

[gburns57au]

Why should the OP get "involved" ???

She doesnt know if there is any veracity in the daughters claims...she hardly knows the mother or the womans history...

All she can do is advice the daughter...and that advice should be for the daughter to go and see the treating Doctor...

Rollergirl...give the advice and then leave it...it is not your responsibility after that...you will have done all that you can. You cant get more involved unless invited to.

For those that want the OP to do this or that...she has little involvement with the family except through the daughter...If the mother is depressed, outside involvement may cause her to tip over the edge.

[rollergirl]

Why should the OP get "involved" ???

She doesnt know if there is any veracity in the daughters claims...she hardly knows the mother or the womans history...

All she can do is advice the daughter...and that advice should be for the daughter to go and see the treating Doctor...

Rollergirl...give the advice and then leave it...it is not your responsibility after that...you will have done all that you can. You cant get more involved unless invited to.

For those that want the OP to do this or that...she has little involvement with the family except through the daughter...If the mother is depressed, outside involvement may cause her to tip over the edge.

You make a very good point, I don't know what to do now???

[November Rain]

Didn't you say your brother in law works in the mental health field? Talk to him, off-the-record, mentioning no names. See what he advises. You could also try phoning the Samaritans yourself & explaining the situation & asking their advice - maybe they have an enquiry line, rather than their hotlines, not sure about that(!?) But, yes, talk to the daughter again & ask whether she has contacted her mother's doctor or any other professional. If not, why not? (I seem to remember in the beginning you thought it might be the daughter being a bit of an attention seeker, if she's done nothing in the couple of days we've all been discussing this on here, I would wonder why) Good luck

[sriracha john]

Why should the OP get "involved" ???

She doesnt know if there is any veracity in the daughters claims...she hardly knows the mother or the womans history...

All she can do is advice the daughter...and that advice should be for the daughter to go and see the treating Doctor...

Rollergirl...give the advice and then leave it...it is not your responsibility after that...you will have done all that you can. You cant get more involved unless invited to.

For those that want the OP to do this or that...she has little involvement with the family except through the daughter...If the mother is depressed, outside involvement may cause her to tip over the edge.

You make a very good point, I don't know what to do now???

A question you should ask yourself that might help you in your decision-making process of whether to get involved or not:

"Whether she is a close friend or a brief acquaintance, do I care what happens to this person?"

If the answer is no, then do nothing.

If the answer is yes, then follow through with your intentions of encouraging and assisting your friend to have her mother professionally evaluated, even that means accompanying them both to the doctor.

People who are depressed, but not suicidal are not tipped over the edge to committing suicide due to "unnecessary" outside involvement that reflects concern and compassion.

Edited January 17, 2007 by sriracha john

[GuestHouse]

To my mind there are three questions to be asked.

1. Is the claim true. Not doubting the OP but I would suggest the only way for the claim to be verified is for the mother to see a mental health professional.

2. What can the OP actually do? I don't see that she can do much at all beyond advise the daughter to seek professional help for her mother.

3. Is the OP ‘prepared’ for getting involved. And I don't mean has she got her bank book to hand. Getting involved in other people's (strangers') emotional problems can be hugely risky to our own well being. I don't see it as simply has the OP got the emotional reserves to be involved but has she the range of skills to hand, not least of all 'Cultural'.

The fact that the OP states she would be devastated if the mother did kill herself suggest to me the OP is already in danger of becoming emotionally involved. That places her at real risk on a whole range of issues.

To be honest my approach would be to talk to the daughter, explain you are not a mental health professional but that you believe she should seek help for her mother from a doctor. I'd draw the line there.

The actual risk that I see is that the daughter is going to load all this onto the OP. It may simply be a key to loading a lot more on the OP.

In contrast to what others have said here, yes mental illness, depression, suicidal tendencies do need understanding. But I would not rule out emotional immaturity and emotional blackmail - and I would certainly expect the daughter to have all the vices of the mother.

I’d also add that Thais have a deep rooted aversion to expressing emotions, or discussing problems outside of their close family groups.

When I hear a Thai who I barely know telling me about some problem they have the alarm bells start ringing, I don’t think I have ever been wrong on that front.

Tell her to get help for her mother and keep your distance, and absolutely do prepare yourself for the likely possibility that this is simply the daughter giving it the “poor poor me”.

[rollergirl]

Ok a quick update,

I have given my friend my brother in laws phone number, I have advised her to call him as soon as possible. I am not going to involve myself by stepping in, there is nothing I can do that my friend couldn't do herself.

I suspect that it may be my friend who is attention seeking here as another friend has been telling me that she is feeling sorry for herself at the minute after breaking up with her boyfriend. I really hope this is the case, but on the other hand if my friend is making this whole thing up I don't think that is the type of person I would want in my company.

As a few of you have said I am not quaified to give any advice other than for her to seek help, and I don't have any tie or connection to the mother.If I involve myself in this and Talk to my brother in law and he takes further action and it's all a hoax "I" have wasted Peoples time who are i'm sure very busy with genuine cases.

Thanks again to all who have given advice on this thread, I hope i'm doing the right thing here.

Lets see what happens..........