Thai Airways Moving Back To Don Muang

[Milo]

My personal feelings are that this could well just be a way for them to open negotiations for a reduced domestic rate at Suvarnabhumi? Threaten to move because the costs are too high? They can't seriously believe that this will be good for business.

[Martin]

I, too, had wondered about that, 'milo'. Between a national airline and its airport authority there can be quite a complex relationship!

But, if so, THAI are on a win-win. If they can drive down their outlay for operating out of Swhattsit by a bit of 'sabre rattling', they improve their bottom line.

Or, if DMK gets the low-cost airlines, but THAI keeps the domestic routes to CM, and Phuket (though not Khon Kaen (KKC), as has been posted) at Swhattsit (BKK), they will rake in the shekels.

THAI doesn't seem to have suffered from the low cost competition on routes to destinations like Khon Kaen and Udon Thani. The sort of passenger who flew in the 'old' days still uses THAI. It seems that the low-cost airlines have taken passengers from the long-distance bus operators.

I still say that re-opening DMK as suggested would give good benefits to a great number, at the price of a small dis-benefit to a small number (of which I am one).

[littlebritain]

What about

uturn air

bad choice air

cockup air

or another finemessair.com

Yet again proof that Thais do never look at the bigger pic.

Any idea how much all this is going to cost ?

[midas]

I reckon the $64,000 question has to be regarding the luggage trolleys !!

they moved them from DM to the new airport to save costs - but

will they have to move them back again and which airport will benefit

from the shiny new models !!! I cant wait to find out

[Ricardo]

While I as an individual would certainly appreciate if there was only one airport, because then I never have to worry about where exactly to go when I take a plane, I am sure that those who make these decisions on whether to re-open Don Muang or not did go to school and have their degrees enabling them to make that decision, while most of the posters here obviously do not have the insight and detail information necessary to somehow intelligently comment the decision.

Sorry but I don't share your confidence - based on observing the management and decisions of Thai Airways, and the new airport project.

Many posters here, though not all, have experience of,and education for, international management, and have proven it in the real world out there before coming to Thailand. They represent a neglected resource, of skills & experience, in Thailand. And tourism or airline-management are very international industries - where international experience is especially relevant.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I know of few Thai managers who are notably successful overseas, partly because they patriotically return home after their studies, to apply their theoretical knowledge here. But business-management is partly a practical experience-based skill.

Most posters would wish to offer constructive, not derogatory, criticism - although this may not always be clear from their posts.

[Martin]

"But business-management is partly a practical experience-based skill."

I agree, and a naturally-bright person who gets a good spell of experiential learning is a lot more likely to be successful than an equally-bright person who is subjected to that process (which is largely disguised-brainwashing) called schooling and university. I speak as a former teacher and higher-education Principal Lecturer, but with industrial experience in engineering, too.

I think that there is every possibilty of things getting quite interesting here when Thai women, who have run businesses, and so forth, in the West, come back with supportive Western retiree husbands.

[ilyushin]

Perhaps Thai could call the new domestic airline it's going to set up Nokair?

Nok Air is already a subsidiary of Thai.

Perhaps I am missing something (an attempt at some form of humour perhaps)

Thai (TG) owns 39% of Nok Air and also leases the 737-400 aircraft back to Nok.

TG has disclosed that they are considering a TG 100% owned and operated budget carrier - Royal Orchid

Nok Air isn't cheap, but I have gotten better rates than 1-2-Go before. Better maintenance program too. I will pay a few baht more for a clean bill of health on the planes.

[mitrapaap]

If they move all the lowcost airlines back to DM Thai will then realistically have a monopoly on farangs flying to Phuket, Chiang Mai and Khon Kaen as nobody's going to be bothered to hack across town to save 1000(ish)bt.

Most travelers aren't connecting to low cost airlines anyway, as extra domestic legs come for nearly (if not) free on Thai. So it wouldn't be bad to have Thai operated connecting flights from Suwanabhumi and low cost carriers from Don Muang.

And what's wrong with Don Muang Airport? They don't need to call it Bangkok International Airport or any other nonsense...

That's assuming you're flying in on Thai. Lots of passengers arrive on other airlines.

Whatever you fly in, your connection will be with Thai. Quantas (or any other ailine) does not fly the Bangkok-Phuket leg. If you by your ticket in Melbourne for a Melbourne-Phuket, your Bangkok-Phuket with TG will just be in the price.

[mitrapaap]

While I as an individual would certainly appreciate if there was only one airport, because then I never have to worry about where exactly to go when I take a plane, I am sure that those who make these decisions on whether to re-open Don Muang or not did go to school and have their degrees enabling them to make that decision, while most of the posters here obviously do not have the insight and detail information necessary to somehow intelligently comment the decision.

Sorry but I don't share your confidence - based on observing the management and decisions of Thai Airways, and the new airport project.

Many posters here, though not all, have experience of,and education for, international management, and have proven it in the real world out there before coming to Thailand. They represent a neglected resource, of skills & experience, in Thailand. And tourism or airline-management are very international industries - where international experience is especially relevant.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I know of few Thai managers who are notably successful overseas, partly because they patriotically return home after their studies, to apply their theoretical knowledge here. But business-management is partly a practical experience-based skill.

Most posters would wish to offer constructive, not derogatory, criticism - although this may not always be clear from their posts.

I did not mean to say that those who make the decisions are all fresh graduates.

[Ricardo]

Accepted.

But experience gained in only one country (Thailand) is less helpful than wide-ranging experience , in several countries and continents, when we're talking about a very international industry.

The point is that LCCs flying only/mainly domestic routes might be able to switch to an arguably-cheaper hub, but an integrated international-standard airline, which is what TG aspires to be, needs to have domestic/international hubs in one place, so that they can feed business seamlessly between the two sides of the same business.

Playing with names is a distraction - nothing more. It gives an illusion of change, while delaying facing the reality, which is that TG is not as successful as it should be, as the national airline of a major tourist-destination country

These 'Royal Orchid' planes fly into BKK on a domestic-flight, then out again on an international-sector, at present. Flying two names/styles/sets-of-paintwork on the international services will just confuse the overseas image of Thai Airways & 'Smooth as Silk' - which is already a perfectly good established image.

This is just like the TAT decision to change from 'Amazing Thailand' to 'Unforgetable Thailand' - and it will end in the same way.

Nok-Air as Thai's domestic/regional LCC-arm is already established, and hopefully successful (we don't have the facts to judge this), in the niche which the new 'Royal Orchid' is targetting. By all means let them switch back to DM, if it really is necessary or cheaper, but I'm afraid that I doubt that it is, because IMHO AAT are just playing with the numbers, which they're not terribly good at.

Lastly I would point out that the decision to expand capacity at Suvarnabhumi, by adding a new low-cost-carrier terminal, was already announced twice last summer. The AAT management, if competent as you believe, should therefore already be several months down the path of designing & opening a relatively simpler project, that of a new terminal which actually meets the different needs of the LCCs, which were supposed to be 30% of total demand. This new terminal will quickly take the pressure off the main terminal - if those announcements had any meaning at all.

[kasi]

Re opening DM would be really dopey. They could make much better use of that real estate.

Keeping 2 airports open would be more expensive than just adding a domestic terminal.

As soon a Phuket lengthens their runway we will see many more direct flights out of Phuket to overseas destinations.

[h90]

So what name will be used for DM?

Bangkok National Airport

Bangkok Occasional Airport

BKK Classic

I can't believe it's still an Airport

New Bangkok International Old Domestic ...er... I give up.

How about "Bangkok Lite"

Better still "BKK Lite"

DM International Airport for Domestic flights.

[phibunmike]

It seems that London and Paris manage with 2 airports in operation.!

Paris has 2: Charles de Gaul & Orly; London has 5: Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, City and Luton. Heathrow is far too big.

Actually, incredibly, Southend Airport is now also called "London Southend"

I see no complication with two airports - Bangkok Don Muang and Bangkok Suvarnabhumi - but it is an amazing u-turn.

What a pity that all the money spent on those hand written signs held in place with sticky tape at Suvarnabhumi will have been wasted

Perhaps now with the flights being shared between airports, we will be able to use jetway ramps to board, as at other modern airports, instead of shuffling around the airport in overcrowded buses....

[dekka007]

As soon a Phuket lengthens their runway we will see many more direct flights out of Phuket to overseas destinations.

It's 3000 metres already it can handle, all the airbuses. 747 and 777 already runway length will not be the reason.

[Jai Dee]

Transport-related authorities discussed the plan to reuse Don Muang Airport

The Ministry of Transport held a meeting on the plan to shift certain flights from Suvarnabhumi Airport to Bangkok International Airport, or better known as Don Muang Airport.

Transport Minister Thira Haocharoen had a discussion on this issue with the Airports of Thailand (AOT), the Department of Civil Aviation, and the representatives from different airlines at 2 PM today (Jan 19).

The Transport Minister also touched on the rumour that AOT chairman Saprang Kalayanamitr disagreed with the plan to move certain flights to Don Muang Airport.

Admiral Thira said the rumour was a misunderstanding because the reuse of Don Muang Airport would take place if necessary, and he will have to seek opinions from different sides as well.

He said the move will affect many parties such as airport operators, airlines, passengers, and the transport system.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 19 January 2007

[baboon]

It seems that London and Paris manage with 2 airports in operation.!

Paris has 2: Charles de Gaul & Orly; London has 5: Heathrow, Gatwick, Stansted, City and Luton. Heathrow is far too big.

Actually, incredibly, Southend Airport is now also called "London Southend"

I see no complication with two airports - Bangkok Don Muang and Bangkok Suvarnabhumi - but it is an amazing u-turn.

What a pity that all the money spent on those hand written signs held in place with sticky tape at Suvarnabhumi will have been wasted

Perhaps now with the flights being shared between airports, we will be able to use jetway ramps to board, as at other modern airports, instead of shuffling around the airport in overcrowded buses....

If its London we are talking about, we have Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton, Stansted, Southend [although that is pushing it] Elstree, Northolt, City and Biggin Hill. I doubt Thailand will collapse with the reopening of Don Muang. The only real confusion will be from the usual suspects who you would not trust to sit the right way on a lavatory, never mind get from A to B.

As for those who complain about Taxi rip offs between the two, the answer is simple. No Meter, No Passenger. You make it sound like every Taxi out there is going to cheat you when in reality it is a fairly small minority.

Edited January 19, 2007 by baboon

[sbk]

As long as there is transportation provided by the airport to transfer to DM it seems doable to me.

[Axel]

I forgot, how many times I moved from European continent via Gatwick, connecting to Heathrow and on to Asia. Not once did I miss my connection and not once did my checked in bags arrive with me.

I am sure, TG can do it better, o can they?

[somtaamgaiyang]

I forgot, how many times I moved from European continent via Gatwick, connecting to Heathrow and on to Asia. Not once did I miss my connection and not once did my checked in bags arrive with me.

I am sure, TG can do it better, o can they?

Just imagine doing it at 5.00 pm on a Friday!!

[Jai Dee]

The return to use Bangkok International Airport to reach conclusion in the next 2-3 weeks

The Transport Minister, Admiral Thira Haochaoren, expected the plan to reuse Bangkok International Airport, or also known as Don Muang Airport, will reach a conclusion within the next two to three weeks.

Admiral Thira held a meeting with various airlines and departments that are involved with the plan to reuse Don Muang Airport. He said in the meeting discussed this issue but failed to reach a conclusion.

He will discuss the plan with Mr. Sansern Wongcha-um (สรรเสริญ วงศ์ชะอุ่ม), the Deputy Minister of Transport, and relevant departments before presenting the proposal to the Cabinet meeting for consideration.

Admiral Thira added that there have been suggestions from many that certain flights will be shifted from Suvarnabhumi Airport to Don Muang Airport.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 20 January 2007

[Jai Dee]

No conclusion yet on future use of Don Muang Airport

BANGKOK, Jan 20 (TNA) - A meeting Friday between Thailand's Ministry of Transport and representatives of domestic and international airlines could not agree on the future use of Bangkok's former international airport, Transport Minister Thira Haocharoen said.

Admiral Thira said he would consult with his deputy and government agencies involved before submitting a proposal to the Cabinet in the next few weeks.

The minister added that the purpose of Friday's meeting was for him to listen to both the proponents and the opponents of reopening Don Muang airport.

Sources said the debate was quite intense, but it seemed most airlines want Don Muang to serve only non-connecting domestic flights.

Demand for the re-use of Don Muang, currently serving only chartered flights, is gaining momentum due to congestion and problems with taxiways and runways at Suvarnabhumi.

It is expected a final proposal would be submitted for Cabinet consideration on January 30.

"We realise that it's absolutely critical to reach a decision on the future use of Don Muang airport as soon as possible. The longer it takes to decide, the more wasteful it becomes. We cannot let Don Muang go to waste; that's not right," Adm. Thira said.

Source: TNA - 20 January 2007

[STEELINOX]

Do airlines "business plan" for Swampipoon incorporate provisions for the airport failing to provide services? Are there penalties that AOT face from airlines being impacted by not having "working taxiways, runways, gates, toilets and temporary closures?"

Thanks