Fizzing/buzzing breaker

[irlguy1]

Hi guys

The brother in laws breaker is making a buzzing noise but only when he turns on one of the electric showers. Nothing else in the house causes the buzz. Not even the air con so just wondering if anyone could shed some light on why it's doing this and if it's serious?

He can use the shower on cold but as soon as he turns one of them to hot the board starts making noises.??

 

Any help appreciated

 

 

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[wayned]

Sounds like a loose connection at the breaker. I'd make sure that all of the connections are properly tightened with the appropriately insulated screwdriver.

[r136dg]

IMHO, yes, it could be serious. It could be a faulty breaker being overloaded & needing (but not able) to open/trip. Thin wiring getting hot could be the cause of the mcd buzzing/wanting to open. Like Wayned said, it could also be faulty connections. You & your brother in law have a few things to troubleshoot, but whatever you do, be extremely careful! If in doubt, sub it out (to a professional). Just my opinion.

[irlguy1]

Thanks guys, first thing we checked was loose connections on the board. All are tight so I guess next step is call a professional but they are few and far between in the village [emoji23][emoji23][emoji24][emoji24]


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[Crossy]

Breakers are cheap and easy to replace, a replacement unit would be my first port of call assuming all else is ok.

 

Is it getting hot or emitting any untoward smells?

 

What is the rating of the breaker in question? Many do buzz when on the line of tripping, not a problem in itself. Also, is this something new or has it been doing it forever?

 

[bankruatsteve]

Is that the main breaker or one on a circuit?  IE: are both L and N going into the breaker or just a Live?  

 

Also, you could, with power off, pull out the wire(s) going into the breaker and check the end for any heat damage (from arcing).  

[irlguy1]

So it turns out that he has 2.5 cable for the showers. He was told that is fully acceptable by two different "electricians" in the village. Is it imperative that showers are on 4 or is 2.5 used anywhere?

There is no smell of burning and no heat anywhere on the board.

Its the main fuse board for the entire house.

It's only a new problem and the board has been installed for 18 months. Not sure what the rating is.

 

 

 

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[irlguy1]

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[Crossy]

Assuming the shower is less than 4.5kW it will be fine on 2.5mm² cable it should really have a 20A breaker. I'll bet it's on a 32A but if the shower is the only load that's not a major safety issue.

 

If all the connections are good, nothing is getting hot, no smells and the breaker operates on the "Test" button I wouldn't worry about it.

 

Unless it's really annoyingly loud in which case I suspect a replacement is going to be the solution.

[irlguy1]

Assuming the shower is less than 4.5kW it will be fine on 2.5mm² cable it should really have a 20A breaker. I'll bet it's on a 32A but if the shower is the only load that's not a major safety issue.
 
If all the connections are good, nothing is getting hot, no smells and the breaker operates on the "Test" button I wouldn't worry about it.
 
Unless it's really annoyingly loud in which case I suspect a replacement is going to be the solution.

As far as I know it's 4500 watt. It's a Steibel Eltron. I will check out the wattage when I am back during the week but is 4500 ok on 2.5 or is it borderline? Also what if both showers are running at the same time?
Cheers guys.


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[Crossy]

30 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

Also what if both showers are running at the same time?

Are they on the same breaker, same cable?

 

One 4,500 will be ok on 2.5mm², running two 4500 on the same bit of 2.5mm² counts as "unwise".

 

[bankruatsteve]

27 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

As far as I know it's 4500 watt. It's a Steibel Eltron. I will check out the wattage when I am back during the week but is 4500 ok on 2.5 or is it borderline? Also what if both showers are running at the same time?
Cheers guys.


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4500 W is OK for 2.5mm2 cable and a 20 amp breaker.  If both showers are on the same circuit (using the same cable) then it would need to separate on different circuits or go to 6mm2 and 32 amp breaker.

[Pdavies99]

A good chance its the insulation within the breaker that is deteriorating, the same issue on street circuit breakers, you hear them buzzing and then eventually bang, and they are replaced.  A consequence of cheap made parts!

 

Just buy a new one, not much to buy!

[irlguy1]

A good chance its the insulation within the breaker that is deteriorating, the same issue on street circuit breakers, you hear them buzzing and then eventually bang, and they are replaced.  A consequence of cheap made parts!
 
Just buy a new one, not much to buy!

Is that likely after only 18 months?
It wasn't a cheap unit


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[Crossy]

13 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

Is that likely after only 18 months?
It wasn't a cheap unit

If it was Schneider or ABB (or even Safe-T-Cut) I would agree, but a relative no-name Chinese (or Thai) unit ...

 

I assume it's a buzz as opposed to a fizz, fizzing would indicate something breaking down (and liberate lots of heat and "electrical" smells).

 

With everything electrical here it's worth going with well known names, even the Chinese Tomzn or Chint are respected and known names.

[irlguy1]

If it was Schneider or ABB (or even Safe-T-Cut) I would agree, but a relative no-name Chinese (or Thai) unit ...

 

I assume it's a buzz as opposed to a fizz, fizzing would indicate something breaking down (and liberate lots of heat and "electrical" smells).

 

With everything electrical here it's worth going with well known names, even the Chinese Tomzn or Chint are respected and known names.

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Fair point

 

I sent a video of the noise above can you tell if it's a fizz or a buzz ?

 

 

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[bankruatsteve]

1 hour ago, irlguy1 said:

Fair point

 

I sent a video of the noise above can you tell if it's a fizz or a buzz ?

 

 

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I re-played your video and I couldn't hear anything - which might be because I can't hear much anyway.  Again, if it doesn't smell maybe not worry about it.

[maxpower]

Possible cause of noisy breaker that's not overheating smoking or showing any signs of bad connection :-

 

Breakers have a fast acting magnetic trip mechanism that uses a core inside a coil to detect high current pulse. On faulty, poorly manufactured or tired old breakers, this mechanism can start buzzing at supply frequency when a load is passed through the breaker.
RCBO's have an additional magnetic coil that operates the same fast acting mechanism.

[DavisH]

If it's an old breaker it may be worth replacing it. Not long after we moved into a secondhand townhouse our breaker blew and caught fire. Fortunately, we were close to it at that time and could extinguish it. I can't imagine if it happened at night time when we were asleep. 

[irlguy1]

If it's an old breaker it may be worth replacing it. Not long after we moved into a secondhand townhouse our breaker blew and caught fire. Fortunately, we were close to it at that time and could extinguish it. I can't imagine if it happened at night time when we were asleep. 

It's only 18 months old


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[DavisH]

9 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

It's only 18 months old


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Ok, so it's worth getting an electrician to look at it. 

[Crossy]

Hmmm, I admit that I hadn't listened to the audio previously (I thought the video was just to show what you had, my bad).

 

Does it do that when either shower is operating or just one in particular? How about with both on?

 

Certainly an "interesting" sound and if it were mine I would be replacing it even if it's not overheating or smelling.

 

I'd like a second opinion, anyone else want to comment?

 

[irlguy1]

Hmmm, I admit that I hadn't listened to the audio previously (I thought the video was just to show what you had, my bad).

 

Does it do that when either shower is operating or just one in particular? How about with both on?

 

Certainly an "interesting" sound and if it were mine I would be replacing it even if it's not overheating or smelling.

 

I'd like a second opinion, anyone else want to comment?

 

 

It does it when either shower is on and when both are on but not with anything else. All other heavy load items like aircon or microwave etc have no issues.

 

The showers are connected separately so I got no idea what's going on really [emoji848]

 

When you say replace, do you mean the entire board ?

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[r136dg]

13 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

I re-played your video and I couldn't hear anything

My partially good ear couldn't hear much either. You have a 63amp main RCBO followed by a 10amp mcb. Can't see what size mcb's after that. 

  Elaborating on what's been said by others; Answer these questions & your troubleshooting should be complete.

Is Gsafe a good reputable brand?  I won't comment on that.

What size breaker/breakers are the showers pulling off of?

Are both showers pulling off the same breaker?

[Crossy]

8 minutes ago, irlguy1 said:

When you say replace, do you mean the entire board ?

Can you post a photo of the board with the lid off so we can see what mountings the breakers use.

 

You should be able to get branded (ABB or Schneider) units that slot right in.

[irlguy1]

Can you post a photo of the board with the lid off so we can see what mountings the breakers use.
 
You should be able to get branded (ABB or Schneider) units that slot right in.

Ah ok you mean just replace the breakers not the entire board?
I am away for a few weeks and their is nobody there that knows how to take or send photos on a phone [emoji13][emoji13]
I will see if they can get some kids in to take a photo [emoji23]
Is it normal for two breakers connected to two different showers to both fail while everything else is fine?



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[irlguy1]

As far as I know this is the model and types parts but not sure if thats of use to anyone.
https://globalhouse.co.th/product/detail/8859042850126/619

http://www.ginolr.com/product-152691-%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%8B%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%A3%E0%B9%8C%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%95%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%81%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%A3%E0%B9%8C%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B9%E0%B8%94.html'>http://www.ginolr.com/product-152691-%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%8B%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%A3%E0%B9%8C%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%95%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%81%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%A3%E0%B9%8C%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B9%E0%B8%94.html

http://www.ginolr.com/product-152691-%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%8B%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%A3%E0%B9%8C%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%95%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%81%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%A3%E0%B9%8C%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B9%E0%B8%94.html


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[Crossy]

That ginolr link seems to be a drop-in replacement

 

http://www.ginolr.com/product-152691-เมนเซอร์กิตเบรกเกอร์กันดูด.html

 

You'll have to call for a price, it may actually be cheaper to buy a complete unit from Global and use it for spares.

 

You'll need a man to do it for you as it's the incoming breaker. Not a DIY job.