greenchair Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 2 hours ago, speedtripler said: Exactly, they're is a lot more upside than downside in CryptoCurrencys Even mark cuban who said bitcoin was a scam for years finally bought some a couple of months ago because he is smart enough to realise it's here to stay Sorry but what does crypto currency mean ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 3 hours ago, greenchair said: Sorry but what does crypto currency mean ?? If you need to ask that you should probably stay well away from it..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seancbk Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 8 hours ago, greenchair said: On 1/3/2018 at 3:01 PM, seancbk said: Congratulations on having an opinion based entirely on ignorance. Considering the Bank of England is studying launching it own crypto currency and thousands of banks and major international companies are actively engaged in using them I'd say you are way behind with your blinkered opinions.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/30/bank-england-plots-bitcoin-style-digital-currency/ I won't bother finding you anymore links to make my point, because I suspect you'd be trying to destory weaving machines if you lived in 1788 when the original luddites were about. I have no idea what you are talking about. But it does seem 500 to 1000 from his 160000 would not be a big loss if it didn't work out and would have a great gain if it did. I might do that myself. The advice I would give you is to find a friend who is already buying crypto and ask them to explain it to you. If you don't have a friend you can turn to, then check out the Bangkok crypto meetups. Ask questions, find out as much as you can *before* you put any money in. Getting into crypto isn't difficult but it does require a certain amount of knowledge, and as with any investment you should know what you are getting into.https://www.meetup.com/en-AU/Bangkok-Satoshi-Square/ Best of luck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitsubishi Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 On 1/3/2018 at 6:02 AM, theguyfromanotherforum said: What an absolutely terrible advice for someone who wants to retire. It was a decent way to invest in before it hit the roof, now though it is terrible advice as you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seancbk Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 3 minutes ago, mitsubishi said: On 1/3/2018 at 1:02 PM, theguyfromanotherforum said: What an absolutely terrible advice for someone who wants to retire. It was a decent way to invest in before it hit the roof, now though it is terrible advice as you say. Another example of someone who hasn't done enough research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 5 minutes ago, mitsubishi said: It was a decent way to invest in before it hit the roof, now though it is terrible advice as you say. The roof lol You obviously have a wealth of no idea yet still somehow feel like you need to make a comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chingching Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 @ speedtripler. You seem to know alot about "cryptocurrencies" but some of us are noobies. Lots of my friends are making BIG bucks with cryptocurrencies, so I thought I would try. I started last year and bought btc, ethereum, and later some bitcoincash, but I am only up 45X (4500%) since January. So these must not be the right kind of cryptocurrencies because I read a lot of people are millionaires and making 100X. I think I have the wrong kind of cryptocurrency. Are there more than one kind?? I read about FIAT currency. Where can I buy that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 14 minutes ago, chingching said: @ speedtripler. You seem to know alot about "cryptocurrencies" but some of us are noobies. Lots of my friends are making BIG bucks with cryptocurrencies, so I thought I would try. I started last year and bought btc, ethereum, and later some bitcoincash, but I am only up 45X (4500%) since January. So these must not be the right kind of cryptocurrencies because I read a lot of people are millionaires and making 100X. I think I have the wrong kind of cryptocurrency. Are there more than one kind?? I read about FIAT currency. Where can I buy that? 4500% ain't bad for a year.... I think you're doing OK but if you want to raise the stakes you could experiment with margin trading cryptos..... That will either make you or break you, literally Most people should just buy some and hold (hodl) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkn Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 9 hours ago, greenchair said: Sorry but what does crypto currency mean ?? These are digital tokens that you can buy. For bitcoin, there will only be 21 million and they are issued at a pace of 12.5 coins every 10th minute (roughly). This will decrease over time. People think that sometime in the future, we will use these tokens instead of government issued money. Therefor a lot of people are buying up these tokens, this increase demand, the price goes up, so now even more people wants to buy them, because it has (so far) been a good investment. Unfortunately though it is a zero-sum game. When someone buys a bitcoin for $17k it means that somebody else just sold their coin for $17k (that they presumably bought for less). You are not investing in anything, you are simply speculating that you can find someone who, at a future day, will pay more for your coin than you paid. That is not to say that you can’t make a fortune, you just need to cash out before the pool of naifs are exhausted. Statistically though with these schemes, the odds are against you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenchair Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 6 hours ago, seancbk said: The advice I would give you is to find a friend who is already buying crypto and ask them to explain it to you. If you don't have a friend you can turn to, then check out the Bangkok crypto meetups. Ask questions, find out as much as you can *before* you put any money in. Getting into crypto isn't difficult but it does require a certain amount of knowledge, and as with any investment you should know what you are getting into.https://www.meetup.com/en-AU/Bangkok-Satoshi-Square/ Best of luck. Wow, thanks a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 hour ago, lkn said: These are digital tokens that you can buy. For bitcoin, there will only be 21 million and they are issued at a pace of 12.5 coins every 10th minute (roughly). This will decrease over time. People think that sometime in the future, we will use these tokens instead of government issued money. Therefor a lot of people are buying up these tokens, this increase demand, the price goes up, so now even more people wants to buy them, because it has (so far) been a good investment. Unfortunately though it is a zero-sum game. When someone buys a bitcoin for $17k it means that somebody else just sold their coin for $17k (that they presumably bought for less). You are not investing in anything, you are simply speculating that you can find someone who, at a future day, will pay more for your coin than you paid. That is not to say that you can’t make a fortune, you just need to cash out before the pool of naifs are exhausted. Statistically though with these schemes, the odds are against you. This technology is still in its infancy... Statistically, you have a higher chance of winning than losing You have obviously no idea what you are talking about.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenchair Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 8 hours ago, speedtripler said: If you need to ask that you should probably stay well away from it..... Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkn Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 25 minutes ago, speedtripler said: This technology is still in its infancy... Statistically, you have a higher chance of winning than losing You have obviously no idea what you are talking about.... The technology might be in its infancy, but you’re not investing in the technology by buying coins. As for your last statement, how about actually pointing out what I got wrong in my post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 1 hour ago, lkn said: The technology might be in its infancy, but you’re not investing in the technology by buying coins. As for your last statement, how about actually pointing out what I got wrong in my post? You don't even understand the fundamentals of modern CryptoCurrencys yet somehow you think it's a race to cash out before everyone else does.... People like you said the same thing about the Internet 1994 before understanding its magnitude and the effect it will have on the world You must be living in a cave if you can't research these things properly for yourself 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubascuba3 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 The guys who know a lot about cryptos, sounds like you should stick everything on them, house everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkn Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 45 minutes ago, speedtripler said: People like you said the same thing about the Internet 1994 before understanding its magnitude and the effect it will have on the world No, people like me said that “eyeballs” is not a usable metric to valuate your business back in 1999, and it turned out that we were right. As for not understanding the fundamentals of cryptocurrencies, first, I do understand them, but secondly, this is actually not about cryptocurrencies at all, this is economics 101, like the circular flow of income, how value is created, why there is demand for a government backed currency, etc. There might very well be many future use-cases for cryptocurrencies, but that does not at all relate to the price of a bitcoin. A bitcoin could trade for $0.01 and it would be just as useful, because all the money spent buying bitcoins are just parked in bitcoins. As I wrote earlier, it’s a zero sum game. If you do not understand this, you are the one who needs to do some more research! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzannegoh Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 You don't even understand the fundamentals of modern CryptoCurrencys yet somehow you think it's a race to cash out before everyone else does.... People like you said the same thing about the Internet 1994 before understanding its magnitude and the effect it will have on the world You must be living in a cave if you can't research these things properly for yourself If you were managing the OP's portfolio, how much of his 160k would you put in cryptos? Straight up I will tell you that I don't understand the cryptos market, but the main thing that gives me pause about jumping into cryptos now is that the rhetoric in support of them is very similar to that of goldbugs in 2011. Back then there were lot of people around that claimed to have made a fortune on gold, and if you didn't buy in you were a sheeple. So a lot of retirees piled into gold & gold shares. And then when it went bust, it did no good for those retirees to blame the people who shamed them into investing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 3 hours ago, lkn said: No, people like me said that “eyeballs” is not a usable metric to valuate your business back in 1999, and it turned out that we were right. As for not understanding the fundamentals of cryptocurrencies, first, I do understand them, but secondly, this is actually not about cryptocurrencies at all, this is economics 101, like the circular flow of income, how value is created, why there is demand for a government backed currency, etc. There might very well be many future use-cases for cryptocurrencies, but that does not at all relate to the price of a bitcoin. A bitcoin could trade for $0.01 and it would be just as useful, because all the money spent buying bitcoins are just parked in bitcoins. As I wrote earlier, it’s a zero sum game. If you do not understand this, you are the one who needs to do some more research! You are just coming across like a bitter resentful "nocoiner" Average gain on crypto last year was 4400% and those would be blue chip or most popular cryptos Some Less popular ones gained more by they are more unpredictable You have no understanding of what you are talking about, blockchain technology is A LOT more than just the bitcoin price I have been reading about it nearly non stop since 2011 and I still have barely scratched the surface Read for a few years and then we can talk, it's not my job to educate you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seancbk Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 7 hours ago, lkn said: These are digital tokens that you can buy. For bitcoin, there will only be 21 million and they are issued at a pace of 12.5 coins every 10th minute (roughly). This will decrease over time. People think that sometime in the future, we will use these tokens instead of government issued money. Therefor a lot of people are buying up these tokens, this increase demand, the price goes up, so now even more people wants to buy them, because it has (so far) been a good investment. Unfortunately though it is a zero-sum game. When someone buys a bitcoin for $17k it means that somebody else just sold their coin for $17k (that they presumably bought for less). You are not investing in anything, you are simply speculating that you can find someone who, at a future day, will pay more for your coin than you paid. That is not to say that you can’t make a fortune, you just need to cash out before the pool of naifs are exhausted. Statistically though with these schemes, the odds are against you. You started off sounding like you understood this. But you failed to mention a few critical points . Although there is indeed a limit of 21 million Bitcoins (limited by the cryptographic hashing function that is used to generate them), the last bitcoins won't be created until the year 2140. Each bitcoin is subdivisible to 8 decimal places. A sub unit of a bitcoin is called a Satoshi. Each bitcoin is therefore divisible into 100,000,000 Satoshis. × Many people will never own a full Bitcoin (currently I hold 0.00315309 Bitcoins). Eventually Bitcoins price will stabilise (most likely in 10 years although it could be closer to 100 years from now), at which point it will be traded against other currencies in the same way the USD is traded against the Euro or the YEN etc. In no way is it a zero sum game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seancbk Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, suzannegoh said: If you were managing the OP's portfolio, how much of his 160k would you put in cryptos? Straight up I will tell you that I don't understand the cryptos market, but the main thing that gives me pause about jumping into cryptos now is that the rhetoric in support of them is very similar to that of goldbugs in 2011. Back then there were lot of people around that claimed to have made a fortune on gold, and if you didn't buy in you were a sheeple. So a lot of retirees piled into gold & gold shares. And then when it went bust, it did no good for those retirees to blame the people who shamed them into investing. Although I'm not a financial advisor so what I say is not in any way financial advice, but merely my personal opinion. I would recommend no more than 1000 GBP initially. 25% into each of BTC, ETH and LTC. I would then look for some interesting ICOs (Initial coin offerings) and put the other 25% into one of those. The idea is to get your self into the market and learn about it. There is no need to put in large sums to start. That said *if* I had 160K of my own money, I would put in maybe half of it. But I'm younger and have a much better understanding of the risks and rewards. Whatever you do don't let anyone shame you into investing. Edited January 7, 2018 by seancbk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scubascuba3 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 Bitcoins are around 16,700 currently, a week or two ago they were 20,000, some people would have bought at 20,000 so they can't be happy right now i.e. its very volatile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 31 minutes ago, suzannegoh said: If you were managing the OP's portfolio, how much of his 160k would you put in cryptos? Straight up I will tell you that I don't understand the cryptos market, but the main thing that gives me pause about jumping into cryptos now is that the rhetoric in support of them is very similar to that of goldbugs in 2011. Back then there were lot of people around that claimed to have made a fortune on gold, and if you didn't buy in you were a sheeple. So a lot of retirees piled into gold & gold shares. And then when it went bust, it did no good for those retirees to blame the people who shamed them into investing. I would go with Mark Cubans advice on this one and put not more than 10% and put the other 90% in cds or government insured bonds etc like Warren buffett lines to recommend I know crypto inside out having studied it since near the beginning so I feel conformable with more than 10% but it's a good risk / return ratio for most people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkn Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 25 minutes ago, seancbk said: Eventually Bitcoins price will stabilise (most likely in 10 years although it could be closer to 100 years from now), at which point it will be traded against other currencies in the same way the USD is traded against the Euro or the YEN etc. In no way is it a zero sum game. A zero-sum game is one where no value is being created. This does not preclude bitcoin from settling on e.g. $20k per coin and being traded against the USD. Gold for example is also a zero-sum game, in that placing your money in gold does not create any value. You may sell the gold more expensive later, but only if someone else pays more than you did, i.e. your gain is their loss, hence zero-sum. If you disagree, please explain how value is being created so both you, who sold bitcoins at a profit, and the one who bought them from you, also stands to profit from this trade. As for bitcoin settling and then being traded against other currencies; I won’t rule it out, but I think it will be at a *lower* value than today. If you take USD, there is demand for USD because U.S. corporations that export need to pay tax in USD, because many foreign companies deal with goods traded in USD (and therefor hold USD accounts), and if demand for USD gets too low, the Fed may increase the interest rate, making it attractive to buy treasury bills (denoted in USD), etc. Currently people *think* they (collectively) hold 286 billion dollars worth of value in bitcoin (number of outstanding coins times current value). Do you think people are happy having such large amount tied up in bitcoin if it stops to appreciate? Majority of people buying bitcoins do so because they think it’s a great investment, not just to store their wealth. So once the appreciation stops, these people want to cash out, and that’s when we have a problem, because as I wrote above, they *think* they collectively hold 286 billion dollars, but those money are not there, there are no underlying assets to liquidate, majority of the money paid into this scheme has gone to the miners, and they’re not going to buy back the coins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash999 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 On 1/5/2018 at 10:39 PM, jadee said: Hi, could you explain more about how to do this. I'm from the UK and live in Thailand, which bank offers ETFs with the lowest fees? I have an account with Bangkok Bank and from their homepage I went to Personal Banking, Mutual Funds and Exchange-Traded Funds - is that the kind of product you are referring to? Do I just contact the bank and say I want to 'buy some'? Under notes it does say: Investments are not deposits and carry the risk that investors may not receive their money back in full when the investment is redeemed (the principal is not guaranteed) Thanks for any advice you can give. You’ll need to open up an account with a broker and transfer cash from your bank account to your brokerage account. Then from there you buy the ETF and pay a commission for the transaction as you would do buying an individual stock. That’s all there is to it. Same process for selling. There is is a list of brokers on the Thai stock exchange (SET) website. There is also a list of ETFs. Most basic option is to pick one that tracks the whole Index. If the money isn’t already in Thailand you may want to consider keeping some of it offshore and invest there in a similar manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crash999 Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 17 hours ago, mitsubishi said: It was a decent way to invest in before it hit the roof, now though it is terrible advice as you say. To be fair the same could be said about any investment. Impossible to predict when the highs and lows are unless one is manipulating the market. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seancbk Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 On 1/7/2018 at 1:25 PM, scubascuba3 said: The guys who know a lot about cryptos, sounds like you should stick everything on them, house everything If I had a house I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airalee Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 On 1/7/2018 at 4:57 PM, seancbk said: Many people will never own a full Bitcoin (currently I hold 0.00315309 Bitcoins). 0.00315309 bitcoins = @$47 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemises Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Check out goldmoney.com ....located in Jersey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedtripler Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Gregster said: Check out goldmoney.com ....located in Jersey Goldmoney lol, Peter schiff, is that you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemises Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Reasons for investing in gold bars:Firstly, The benefits of a Goldmoney holding include the assurance of knowing that gold, silver and platinum group metals are held in secure and insured vaults, fully identified as owned by individual Goldmoney clients. This form of direct individual ownership is superior to owning a share (or shares) of a corporate entity or trust, such as listed ETFs or other collective vehicles, for several reasons. First, a holding in a metal ETF is a form of indirect rather than direct legal ownership, as it is the intermediary, rather than individual, that owns the metal. Second, physical ETFs are designed so that their shares closely track the price of physical gold. For this service, they charge annual management fees of approximately 0.4-0.6% per annum. This is three to four times greater than the annual all-in fee paid by Goldmoney clients for the secure storage, bar testing, insurance, and audits of their gold as well as the full suite of additional features and services provided by Goldmoney. The higher fees associated with the ETFs are due in part to their requirements to comply with securities laws, including associated regulatory filings. These costs are higher than those incurred by Goldmoney in meeting its regulatory obligations. Third, some ETF prospectuses point to possible risks, such as that redemptions may be suspended temporarily or indefinitely at the discretion of the management company, and that custodians may be free to appoint sub-custodians, whose performance cannot be guaranteed. Finally, investors should also be aware that some ETFs do not own all physical metal directly, but gain their exposure to gold and silver prices in whole or part through futures, options, swaps, leases or other derivatives, which have some combination of exchange, issuer and counterparty risk. These risks can be difficult to quantify, in particular in the event of a financial crisis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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