Military Itching For Bt 6 Billion Secured Satellite

[george]

Military itching for secured satellite

BANGKOK: -- The Cabinet will probably de-bate on Tuesday whether Bt6 billion should be spent to launch a new communications satellite for military and security applications.

"The new satellite would dispel doubts about eavesdropping," Information and Communica-tions Technology Minister Sitthi-chai Pookaiyaudom said yesterday. He was assigned by the Council for National Security to examine the security issues arising from the sale of Shin Corp to Temasek Holdings, the investment arm of the Singaporean government, a year ago.

The deal allowed a foreign concern to gain management control over Shin Satellite, which holds a government concession to operate ThaiCom satellites, including one the military depends on for its internal communications and signalling.

Sitthichai said CNS chairman General Sonthi Boonyaratglin wanted to ensure the integrity of military communications.

Revoking the concession for satellite services without proof of compromised national security would be difficult and might rattle investor confidence, he said.

"For an immediate measure to prevent tampering with ThaiCom services, soldiers have been posted at the operator's uplink station," he said, hinting that the military might want a new satellite as a fixed solution for secured communications.

--The Nation 2007-01-21

[mouse]

I work with a U.S. firm that specializes in providing, securing and renting bandwidth on secure systems and am available as a consultant whould someone need to rent rather than buy. Actually no need to change Satellite systems, just make sure that the delivery method is secured.

[lingling]

I work with a U.S. firm that specializes in providing, securing and renting bandwidth on secure systems and am available as a consultant whould someone need to rent rather than buy. Actually no need to change Satellite systems, just make sure that the delivery method is secured.

I think this thing has more to do with the kickbacks connected to a B6G deal rather than secure communications. Surely they are well aware of VPN technology...

[womble]

I work with a U.S. firm that specializes in providing, securing and renting bandwidth on secure systems and am available as a consultant whould someone need to rent rather than buy. Actually no need to change Satellite systems, just make sure that the delivery method is secured.

I think this thing has more to do with the kickbacks connected to a B6G deal rather than secure communications. Surely they are well aware of VPN technology...

They must think everyone is so dumb..........................

It's as simple as securing the signal. No need to spend 8bn on a new sat.

This stinks of opportunist corruption.

Nothing changes in Thailand, everyone looks out for no.1 The only thing that changes is the players.

Bring back Thaksin please.

Better the devil you know.

[fxm88]

These guys never heard of PGPfone? (Or now I guess it's Zfone.)

Then again, maybe these were open-source projects and we all know how these guys feel about that kind of thing.

[h90]

I work with a U.S. firm that specializes in providing, securing and renting bandwidth on secure systems and am available as a consultant whould someone need to rent rather than buy. Actually no need to change Satellite systems, just make sure that the delivery method is secured.

But that does not if someone else controls the sat and simply turns it off.

As well not a good idea to have another country in charge of your military communication. I can understand that concern.

If it is worth to spend 6.000.000.000 is another question.

If it is worth 3.000.000.000 and 3.000.000.000 as comission fee on the switzerland bank account is also a other question.

[Old Man River]

Military spending helps the economy the same way as other government spending. There are a lot of things governments spend money on that aren't needed, all over the world. Really, there is no problem with this. Every government has to have their toys.

[Pink Mist]

then the chinese can knock it out

[chuchok]

I work with a U.S. firm that specializes in providing, securing and renting bandwidth on secure systems and am available as a consultant whould someone need to rent rather than buy. Actually no need to change Satellite systems, just make sure that the delivery method is secured.

I think this thing has more to do with the kickbacks connected to a B6G deal rather than secure communications. Surely they are well aware of VPN technology...

They must think everyone is so dumb..........................

It's as simple as securing the signal. No need to spend 8bn on a new sat.

This stinks of opportunist corruption.

Nothing changes in Thailand, everyone looks out for no.1 The only thing that changes is the players.

Bring back Thaksin please.

Better the devil you know.

This is better than the keystone cops.These guys are bloody funny though......

[Grover]

I work with a U.S. firm that specializes in providing, securing and renting bandwidth on secure systems and am available as a consultant whould someone need to rent rather than buy. Actually no need to change Satellite systems, just make sure that the delivery method is secured.

I think this thing has more to do with the kickbacks connected to a B6G deal rather than secure communications. Surely they are well aware of VPN technology...

With a powerful super-computer that stuff can be probably be cracked. And if it cant now, tomorrow it will.

[Gumballl]

These guys never heard of PGPfone? (Or now I guess it's Zfone.)

Then again, maybe these were open-source projects and we all know how these guys feel about that kind of thing.

How does PGPfone work if the foot soldier is in the middle of the jungle with no internet access??

It's a given that any radio transmission can be intercepted, whether it is going up or down to/from a satellite. But can the middle-man interpret the signal, given that it is encrypted (INFOSEC) and frequency hopping (COMSEC) is used? Probably not. Does the current Thai satellite support these features? Probably not. Do most communication satellites offer these features. Nope.

Although 6 billion (6,000,000,000) baht does seem a bit steep for a satellite, bear in mind that this figure probably includes the cost of developing the satellite, launching it and maintaining it over many years. As far as building and launching satellites, well Thailand is not quite there yet, and quite possibly will never be.

Edited January 22, 2007 by Gumballl

[cclub75]

Military spending helps the economy the same way as other government spending. There are a lot of things governments spend money on that aren't needed, all over the world. Really, there is no problem with this. Every government has to have their toys.

Fair enough... but there is a big difference : when the USA buy a satellite... the money goes into US pockets... They build it.

Thailand does not have -yet- a space industry.

Anyway. I think it's just another proof that Sonthi is coming from outer space. Since 1 year, some thai officials and many people are angry with the Shin deal. They have absolute power since 19/09. It would be easy for them.

Just take back AIS from Temasek.

But instead, they are launching this stupid idea of buying a satellite because "someone" (they don't dare to say the name) from "outside" might be tapping their mobiles phones...

Of course they do (tapping). Ah ah ah ah.

[cclub75]

The PM is coming in reinforcement.

Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said yesterday the government would solve the problem in the long run - by either buying the [shinSat] stake back or launching a new satellite. "We have to think about this in various aspects, not only security, but also commercial," Surayud told reporters.

"Further, we don't know whether the current stakeholder wants to sell to us."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/01/23...es_30024843.php

Something is amazing. Everybody knows that Temasek used and continues to use nominees to control Shin and all its subsidiaries... A guy who allegedly put billions of THB on the table as an "thai investor", and accept only a few % of the dividends for instance is... a nominee. Or totally stupid. Or he's using... someone's else money.

Temasek has broken the Foreign Business Act (version 1)

Temasek has bypassed the specific Telecommunication Act with the complicity of Thaksin.

Even a student in law knows it.

Just to remind you : with version 1 of Telecommunication Act, foreigners could hold maximum 25 % of shares of a thai telecom company. Thaksin has amended the Act.. just a few days before the transaction, with a new limit of 49 % !

The new version also lifted the requirement for three quarters of directors in such companies to be Thais !

The gvt wants now to write a version 2 of FBA. But meanwhile the Finance Minister said that telecoms companies would be... exempted ! ("sorry I have mispoken" he said in press conference, because the day before telecom companies were specifically targeted)

Who is running the country ? And meanwhile, no news about the "investigation" regarding Shin deal...

*****

Here is a part of Telecommunication Act, version 1.

1)

The applicant for the second category licence and the third category licence

must not be a foreigner according to the Alien Business Act and there shall be a

proportion of shareholding of Thai nationals of not less than 75% of all the capital of

such juristic person. In addition, not less than three-fourth directors and the persons

with power to act to bind such juristic person must be Thai nationals. For such

purposes, the Commission may require that the applicant for a licence to operate

certain type or nature of business, which is a juristic person, prescribe prohibitions

against any other act qualified as a business takeover by persons who are non-Thai

nationals.

www.trp.hku.hk/infofile/files/telco_law2544.pdf

Edited January 22, 2007 by cclub75

[thai_narak]

Expert says takeover should be blocked or Thailand would have to spend billions to ensure signals are not intercepted

Singapore's takeover of the Thaicom satellite and AIS mobile phone company is a "tragedy" for Thailand's defence communications network and should be blocked if possible, a top Australian defence analyst said yesterday. Professor Des Ball said the sale of the ShinSat satellite and AIS to Temasek would end up costing Thailand billions of baht - which would be the price of having to launch a new satellite to ensure the Thai military's signals could not be intercepted.

"It's not in Thailand's interests to allow Singapore control of such a critically important communications system, through the satellite and mobile phone company," Prof Ball said in an interview in Bangkok yesterday. "That's why they [the Thai Army] are now talking about their own satellite and using [two-way] radios - their system has been compromised." Professor Ball, from the Australian National University in Canberra, is a world authority on signals intelligence. A regular visitor to Thailand and Southeast Asia, he has strong links with the Thai military.

Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont said yesterday the government would solve the problem in the long run - by either buying the [shinSat] stake back or launching a new satellite. "We have to think about this in various aspects, not only security, but also commercial," Surayud told reporters. "Further, we don't know whether the current stakeholder wants to sell to us." The government had no plan to launch a new satellite in the short term, but the Information Communications and Technology Ministry was likely to launch its own satellite late this year, he said.

Prof Ball said Australia went through a similar debate five years ago when Singtel purchased the Optus mobile phone company. He was one of a series of analysts who publicly opposed the takeover. The Australian government eventually allowed the sale to go through, partly to ensure continued close cooperation with the island state, but Australia had to spend a huge sum on fibre-optic cables to avoid use of the Optus satellite and ensure its defence communications were secure.

Part of the problem, Ball said, was "Singapore have a track record of taking advantage of information for commercial and political purposes" - as did the US, and former Soviet Union. Singapore had "listened to and photographed Australian military facilities", which had created diplomatic rifts, he said. "They have a history of abusing their access to training in other facilities abroad. "That is not what friends are supposed to do - they abused their friendship," Ball said.

But remarks made recently by Army chief General Sonthi showed it was very clear Thailand was aware of the problem posed by the Shin takeover, he said. The sale of ShinSat to Temasek had "given Singapore direct access to the Royal Thai Army's satellite communications", Ball said. "They are going to have to have their own independent system, otherwise they hand their military and very sensitive [data] traffic to Singapore on a plate. "It's a tragedy they've handed that away with the Shin deal and will now have to redesign their own system. "If they could get out of this [shin] there are national security reasons why they should. If not, they'll have to spend billions [of baht] - or hundreds of millions of dollars - to redesign another satellite system. Launching a new satellite could cost US$250 million. "If I was in [Thai] Army HQ [headquarters] I'd be trying to get out of this [shin] deal as quick as I could."

Singapore already had an extensive array of satellite listening facilities, from a major base on Sentosa Island to listening equipment at the Thai Army base in Sai Yok - which Prof Ball said appeared to be "primarily focused on Thailand" - judging by the types of antennae he had seen there in recent years. There were both HF (High Frequency) and VHF (Very High Frequency) antennae at the Singaporean compound at RTA base in Sai Yok, but he believed "the VHF is predominantly listening to Thailand" within a radius of 100-150km. A priority target might be a military base such as the Ninth Division and its associated units at Kanchanaburi.

Ball presumed that Thai military data sent via the Thaicom-3 would be encrypted - "so that's not easy [to decode ] ... it depends on the level of encryption and the Singaporeans' ability to access this stuff. "The Thaicom-3 satellite system carries a considerable amount of military and non-military [data] traffic. And in a sense, AIS and the mobile phone system is the same issue - it's the ability [of Singapore] to monitor the mobile phone traffic devices from that satellite.

" Thailand's communications experts were "very switched on" and among the leaders in Southeast Asia, Ball said. "And Thaicom-3 is one of the most advanced in Asia.

"These guys know how your circuits flow better - probably better than anyone, other than the Singaporeans. They would have been aware of this [problem] from the start."

Jim Pollard

The Nation

[thai_narak]

I think VPN is not a solution for these singaporean guys who are fond of eavesdropping into other country's secured channel. They have taken photos of Australian Military facilities? COOL!

Edited January 23, 2007 by thai_narak

[jumnien]

It is possible that within a few months or years (I hope they don't read this post) the Thai govt is going to figure out that the GPS navigation systems in their commercial and military aircraft rely on foreign (US military) satellites. Maybe they can get a better price from Professor Ball if they buy two sattelites?

[Plus]

But they don't use GPS system for communicating with each other, do they?

A foreign country got control of Thailand's communication systems and can listen at will to whatever Thais are talking about - political, economic, military information - anything.

What can Thais do about it? Rely on Singapore's good will? Trust that Singapore would never abuse trust and friendship?

Singapore is Thailand's rival in the region, not a big daddy like the US.

[Johpa]

As Thailand's military is primarily focused upon keeping domestic upstarts in check, I would think that an improved land based telecommunications network would work as well as a sattelite based network given the rather limited range of operations. Unless of course the might HMS Chakri Nareubet begins flight operations near distant shores in some sort of gunboat diplomacy. But we have all awaiting for a decade for flight operations on the ship to commence.

[jumnien]

But they don't use GPS system for communicating with each other, do they?

A foreign country got control of Thailand's communication systems and can listen at will to whatever Thais are talking about - political, economic, military information - anything.

What can Thais do about it? Rely on Singapore's good will? Trust that Singapore would never abuse trust and friendship?

Singapore is Thailand's rival in the region, not a big daddy like the US.

Well, I guess it would be cheaper for the Thai military to switch from AIS to Norwegian-owned DTAC! As an American, I think it is unfair to describe the US as a big daddy in world affairs. "Big Prick is more like it!"

[Plus]

That's was their short term solution. They switched to Thai owned True.

Still, navy can't rely on mobile phones in the open sea.

[thai_narak]

That's was their short term solution. They switched to Thai owned True.

Still, navy can't rely on mobile phones in the open sea.

In open sea? I haven't heard of any cellular site in open sea. Are you talking about satellite (iridium) phones?

[Plus]

That's what I mean - they can't use True (or AIS) at sea, there's a chance that they use Thaicom and Ipstar satellites along with traditional navy communication channels.

[chownah]

Singapore is Thailand's rival in the region, not a big daddy like the US.

Indeed this is true. A Singaporean holding company bought a Thai satellite company and the fallout from this purchase is that now there is a military dictatorship in Thailand making all kinds of political and economic gaffs. Was this a stupid thing for Singapore to do?....does it affect Thailand's competitiveness?

Chownah

[Prakanong]

But they don't use GPS system for communicating with each other, do they?

A foreign country got control of Thailand's communication systems and can listen at will to whatever Thais are talking about - political, economic, military information - anything.

What can Thais do about it? Rely on Singapore's good will? Trust that Singapore would never abuse trust and friendship?

Singapore is Thailand's rival in the region, not a big daddy like the US.

"Singapore is Thailand's rival in the region, not a big daddy like the US."

Now this is funny!!!

I look out my window to the CBD in Singapore and think about the time I worked in Thailand. I love Thailand but rivals - Thailand is a puppy.

Name one Thai Nobel Prize winner - Name one engineering, scientific or medical breakthrough achieved by a Thai.

Singapore and Thailand the rivals in the region - please get real. Thailand as much asI love it is the only country in the region going backwards and is fast becoming the laughing stock of Asia (I will still visit every month though as I love the place)

[Dupont]

Looks fishy from the off.

First the singapore eavesdropping scare story, now the solution! We give 6billion baht (including 2bill in kickbacks) so some agency or other to procure, launch a new system that will be no more secure than any third world countries attempts.

What the hel_l would Thailand be saying that would cause Singapore to compromise our (Thailand's) position and its own credibility. Singapores interests lie in providing good safe service to Thaialan or risk loosing their credibility which would transfer into a monetary loss.

The yanks have long been listening to all secure broadcasts accross the globe. If we bought from them, they would tap it as a matter of course incase Thaialnd ever installed a US un-friendly government. Same for any other super power.

[hammered]

I seriously doubt that there is any military in the world that wants their secure communications controlled by an arm of a foreign and local government. Why should we expect the Thai military to be any different?

[Payboy]

how about launching that aircraft carrier "chakri naruebet" into outer space? it could serve as a secure telecom satellite as well shoot down the iss.

[Plus]

"Singapore is Thailand's rival in the region, not a big daddy like the US."

Now this is funny!!!

I look out my window to the CBD in Singapore and think about the time I worked in Thailand. I love Thailand but rivals - Thailand is a puppy.

Name one Thai Nobel Prize winner - Name one engineering, scientific or medical breakthrough achieved by a Thai.

Singapore and Thailand the rivals in the region - please get real. Thailand as much asI love it is the only country in the region going backwards and is fast becoming the laughing stock of Asia (I will still visit every month though as I love the place)

There are several areas where Thailand is looking to challenge Singapore in the region, for example air travel. The new airport was designed with that purpose in mind. What if it succeded and hordes of tourists and travellers would make stopover in Bangkok instead? How would Singapore like losing a couple of million of tourists and business travellers?

Thai economy is bigger, and they want to dominate their less fortunate neighbours like Cambodia and Laos and they are competing with Singaporean investors there.

Thais also want MNCs to set headquarters here and not in Singapore. Thailand is a natural choice for companies planning on expansion in the region.

In the long run Singapore has nothing to offer that cannot be developed locally, eventually.

If introducing 3G would markedly increase Thailand's competitiveness but require some serious initial investment - would Singapore pay for it?

If Thailand decides to build only ONE national 3G network so that all other operators simply lease it - will Singapore chip in? The situation is that now Singapore controls 60% of Thai telecom market, they can block anything they disagree with.

[Old Man River]

[quote

In the long run Singapore has nothing to offer that cannot be developed locally, eventually.

It really depends on how long "eventually" is. For many years to come, the Singaporean government has no fear about Thailand becoming the hub of choice by MNC's, at least as it relates to their regional finance centers, despite operating costs in Thailand being significantly lower. The driving factor is stability. Coups aside, MNC's have never been impressed with the constant changes each new government in Thailand brings, including reassessments of contracts signed by the previous government. There are just so many war stories, that it is a non starter and will be for a long time.

Having said the above, I think the Thai military should have its own satellite so it can ensure that its communications remain completely secure. I don't know, but don't the military of most western countries have their own satellites?

[chuchok]

"Singapore is Thailand's rival in the region, not a big daddy like the US."

Now this is funny!!!

I look out my window to the CBD in Singapore and think about the time I worked in Thailand. I love Thailand but rivals - Thailand is a puppy.

Name one Thai Nobel Prize winner - Name one engineering, scientific or medical breakthrough achieved by a Thai.

Singapore and Thailand the rivals in the region - please get real. Thailand as much asI love it is the only country in the region going backwards and is fast becoming the laughing stock of Asia (I will still visit every month though as I love the place)

There are several areas where Thailand is looking to challenge Singapore in the region, for example air travel. The new airport was designed with that purpose in mind. What if it succeded and hordes of tourists and travellers would make stopover in Bangkok instead? How would Singapore like losing a couple of million of tourists and business travellers?

Thai economy is bigger, and they want to dominate their less fortunate neighbours like Cambodia and Laos and they are competing with Singaporean investors there.

Thais also want MNCs to set headquarters here and not in Singapore. Thailand is a natural choice for companies planning on expansion in the region.

In the long run Singapore has nothing to offer that cannot be developed locally, eventually.

If introducing 3G would markedly increase Thailand's competitiveness but require some serious initial investment - would Singapore pay for it?

If Thailand decides to build only ONE national 3G network so that all other operators simply lease it - will Singapore chip in? The situation is that now Singapore controls 60% of Thai telecom market, they can block anything they disagree with.

Thailand compete with Singapore on travel front?never going to happen and Singapore know it.Thailand even tried to compete with the ports etc...never going to happen.Too much 'graft' etc for the Thais to even get a look in.I'm pretty sure that the port is now run by a large Hong Kong company.

Singapre for the little nation that it is is streets ahead in technology,GDP etc.They will never try and never will compete in farming exports and machinery etc.Thailand is good at that stuff,although i'm now starting to wonder.....