EGAT told to find new sites for coal-fired power plant projects

[rooster59]

EGAT told to find new sites for coal-fired power plant projects

 

 

The Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand (EGAT) has been ordered by the Energy Ministry to look for new locations for the construction of coal-fired power plants after the government put on hold two coal-fired power projects in Krabi and Thepha district of Songkhla for three years.

 

However, Energy Minister Siri Jirapongphan maintained that coal still remains an important alternative fuel for Thailand and it is not necessary that coal-fired power plants must be located in southern provinces.

 

Under Thailand’s power development plan (PDP) between 2015-2036, the minister said the coal still remains a key alternative fuel but it must be utilized properly for power plants, adding that he had instructed EGAT to look for alternative site for the Thepha power plant project.

 

Full story: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/egat-told-find-new-sites-coal-fired-power-plant-projects/

 

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2018-02-11

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

If the leaders want these dirty power plants so much, why don't they build them next to their own houses?

[newatthis]

And don't forget to get proper health and environmental studies done this time.

[Cadbury]

Is not having a so called "dirty" coal fired power station in Thailand going to make the slightest scrap of difference to the already dirty filthy smoke and pollution filled air that covers Thailand and parts of SE Asia most of the year? Is there some invisible shield around Thailand that keeps it protected from the pollution of the thousands coal fired power stations in China, Vietnam, Malaysia and Cambodia? Even Japan has started building them again in preference to nuclear power stations. Does the eastward drift of atmospheric pollution from India's thousands of coal fired stations stop at Thailand's border and Songkhla just out of courtesy?  

Not looking for an argument for coal fired stations; just commenting.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Cadbury

[halloween]

2 hours ago, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

If the leaders want these dirty power plants so much, why don't they build them next to their own houses?

They were to be built in the south because southern Thailand has an energy deficit, importing much of its power from the north by transmission cables. When they fail due to overloading, we sit around in the dark  because of this lack of generating capacity, a situation which will continue because green activists feed ignorant villagers BS about the dangers of coal-fired generation.

Of course those same villagers are happy to have far more polluting brown coal stations in the north supplying their electricity needs, and I'm sure they don't complain when their lights go out.

[yellowboat]

11 minutes ago, halloween said:

They were to be built in the south because southern Thailand has an energy deficit, importing much of its power from the north by transmission cables. When they fail due to overloading, we sit around in the dark  because of this lack of generating capacity, a situation which will continue because green activists feed ignorant villagers BS about the dangers of coal-fired generation.

Of course those same villagers are happy to have far more polluting brown coal stations in the north supplying their electricity needs, and I'm sure they don't complain when their lights go out.

Well, coal fire was blamed for high pollution levels in Bangkok, which further adds to argument against.  Not saying the argument against is entirely just. It is just that the unelected government has lost its credibility and has done a lousy job in dealing with the issue. 

[ksamuiguy]

What will you do when the lights go out!

We need these Coal Fired power plants, so get on with it, technology will sort out most of the pollution problems.

 

[tukkytuktuk]

Great webcam view of Bangkok's skyline from the Continent hotel.

Check the visibility and smog situation out live stream.

 

https://www.skylinewebcams.com/en/webcam/thailand/central-thailand/bangkok/bangkok-crossroads.html

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, halloween said:

They were to be built in the south because southern Thailand has an energy deficit, importing much of its power from the north by transmission cables.

Egat argued that it cannot add more transmission lines to the south because of the narrow gap along the route. Hence it must build a power plant in Krabi. Yet, it does run an existing transmission line there now as you recognize. It doesn't take much to add another line through the gap for additional energy backup.

Now Energy Minister Siri Jirapongphan admits that it is not necessary that coal-fired power plants must be located in southern provinces. That's also an implicit admission that another transmission line can be run through the gap to serve the south.

So it appears that the people were right to protest the inadequacy of the EIA. That's no BS.

 

[Phuket Stan]

How come Saudi Arabia is building a solar power plant that will supply 200,000 homes while they have all the oil and gas within their country ..

Read up on what China is doing with Solar

Also the USA until that Dotard misfit placed heavy taxes on imports of panels from China

Coal !!!! ....last centurys fuel !!!!

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Phuket Stan

[Lungstib]

7 hours ago, ksamuiguy said:

What will you do when the lights go out!

We need these Coal Fired power plants, so get on with it, technology will sort out most of the pollution problems.

 

Technology has already sorted out the problem, its given us new clean ways to produce electricity cheaper than coal. Why mess about cleaning up filth when options are there?

[tryasimight]

2 hours ago, Lungstib said:

Technology has already sorted out the problem, its given us new clean ways to produce electricity cheaper than coal. Why mess about cleaning up filth when options are there?

And what technologies might they be? 

Remember to include whole of life costs in the total cost of ownership calculations. 

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, tryasimight said:

And what technologies might they be? 

Remember to include whole of life costs in the total cost of ownership calculations. 

How about combined cycle gas turbine power plants?

• Gas turbines are found to be more efficient than coal power plants at full load and at minimum complaint load.
• Start-up times in gas turbines range between 4–45 min in hot starts and 4–250 min in cold starts, while start-up times in coal power plants range between 100–300 min in hot starts and 450–900 min in cold starts. (better operational efficiency)
• At full load, NOx, CO and CO2 emissions are on average 50 to 100% higher in coal plants than in gas plants. (lower emission control costs)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364032117309206

Estimates of power plant overnight capital costs ($/kw) in 2016:

• Ultra Supercritical Coal (USC)    3,636
• Natural Gas Combined Cycle         978

compared to

• Biomass                                          4,985
• Tracking Photovoltaic                   2,644

(Table 1)

https://www.eia.gov/analysis/studies/powerplants/capitalcost/pdf/capcost_assumption.pdf

 

 

[tryasimight]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

How about combined cycle gas turbine power plants?

• Gas turbines are found to be more efficient than coal power plants at full load and at minimum complaint load.
• Start-up times in gas turbines range between 4–45 min in hot starts and 4–250 min in cold starts, while start-up times in coal power plants range between 100–300 min in hot starts and 450–900 min in cold starts. (better operational efficiency)
• At full load, NOx, CO and CO2 emissions are on average 50 to 100% higher in coal plants than in gas plants. (lower emission control costs)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364032117309206

Estimates of power plant overnight capital costs ($/kw) in 2016:

• Ultra Supercritical Coal (USC)    3,636
• Natural Gas Combined Cycle         978

compared to

• Biomass                                          4,985
• Tracking Photovoltaic                   2,644

(Table 1)

https://www.eia.gov/analysis/studies/powerplants/capitalcost/pdf/capcost_assumption.pdf

 

 

Whole of life costs? Total cost of ownership.... Not cost per MW at some nominal time. 

Include the base load capability. 

 

Do you really know what an ultra super critical coal fired station is? 

Or a super critical one for that matter?

 

Good luck in starting a large  (500MW) gas turbine generator in 4 minutes to maximum rated load.  The GT will handle it but the alternator might (will) have a degraded life expectancy. 

A lot of GT  installations are used for peaking power and are relatively small in power output as a back up to base load stations..... Not all of course.... But we can't cherry pick the numbers can we? Many are more profitable to own and run in standby mode.  I.e they make more money when not running than they do when on line. 

I am of course talking about my own experience in power generation.... No doubt others will have differing viewpoints.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by tryasimight

[halloween]

3 hours ago, Srikcir said:

How about combined cycle gas turbine power plants?

• Gas turbines are found to be more efficient than coal power plants at full load and at minimum complaint load.
• Start-up times in gas turbines range between 4–45 min in hot starts and 4–250 min in cold starts, while start-up times in coal power plants range between 100–300 min in hot starts and 450–900 min in cold starts. (better operational efficiency)
• At full load, NOx, CO and CO2 emissions are on average 50 to 100% higher in coal plants than in gas plants. (lower emission control costs)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1364032117309206

Estimates of power plant overnight capital costs ($/kw) in 2016:

• Ultra Supercritical Coal (USC)    3,636
• Natural Gas Combined Cycle         978

compared to

• Biomass                                          4,985
• Tracking Photovoltaic                   2,644

(Table 1)

https://www.eia.gov/analysis/studies/powerplants/capitalcost/pdf/capcost_assumption.pdf

 

 

All very nice. Where does the gas come from? What is the fuel price differential?

BTW we have a combined cycle unit in the south, near Hat Yai.

Edited February 11, 2018 by halloween

[halloween]

12 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Egat argued that it cannot add more transmission lines to the south because of the narrow gap along the route. Hence it must build a power plant in Krabi. Yet, it does run an existing transmission line there now as you recognize. It doesn't take much to add another line through the gap for additional energy backup.

Now Energy Minister Siri Jirapongphan admits that it is not necessary that coal-fired power plants must be located in southern provinces. That's also an implicit admission that another transmission line can be run through the gap to serve the south.

So it appears that the people were right to protest the inadequacy of the EIA. That's no BS.

 

There are 2 lines to the south, does that mean there must be room for 3? How about 4 ? the transmission lines aren't for backup, they are continually in use and near maximum load. Your implicit admission is BS.

[Bredbury Blue]

Thailand is trying to turn to coal powered plants as gas for gas combined cycle plants is expected to run out in a short period (that said Thailand continues to replace its old gas combined cycle plants with new ones).

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/Economy/Facing-a-natural-gas-shortage-Thailand-looks-to-coal-and-hydropower

[Srikcir]

8 minutes ago, Bredbury Blue said:

Thailand is trying to turn to coal powered plants as gas for gas combined cycle plants is expected to run out in a short period

Thailand imports significant coal from Indonesia, China, Australia and nominally from the US. Thailand is as dependent on Coal as it is on Natural Gas.

[Bredbury Blue]

On ‎2‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 12:47 PM, Srikcir said:

Thailand imports significant coal from Indonesia, China, Australia and nominally from the US. Thailand is as dependent on Coal as it is on Natural Gas.

Interestingly, "Vietnam is a major coal producer for both domestic power plants and as a significant exporter to countries in the Asia Pacific region" (Wiki), is currently building coal-fired plants, which will be powered with the coal imported from Indonesia.