Smoke, Smog, Dust 2018 Chiang Mai

[Trujillo]

Can a mod update the title of this thread? It's not 2018 anymore. 

[vivid]

Wonderful morning today, significant improvement vs the past 1 week.  Those in CM city with relatively good conditions in AQI 180-190 who don't mind the haze/smog might even do a cool 26-27 deg C early morning jog which they have been waiting for so long.

 

[vivid]

 Screenshot for reference.  Not too shabby this morning too.  Levels might get a little higher until 1100h but that'd be about it.

 

 

 

[canopy]

Why are you describing air that is labeled hazardous / very unhealthy as beautiful and not too shabby? Sarcasm? Improvements do not mean clean air. To me even being in the yellow zone slightly above standards for clean air (which it currently isn't) is a great disappointment. The air in the countryside should be pristine, not comparable or worse than the heart of Bangkok. I am sure it used to be clean and maybe one day will be clean again but not in our generation. For me if the air meets US EPA standards for clean air I would call it good. Anything higher than that, just talking about how bad the air is.

 

[vivid]

2 hours ago, canopy said:

Why are you describing air that is labeled hazardous / very unhealthy as beautiful and not too shabby? Sarcasm? Improvements do not mean clean air. To me even being in the yellow zone slightly above standards for clean air (which it currently isn't) is a great disappointment. The air in the countryside should be pristine, not comparable or worse than the heart of Bangkok. I am sure it used to be clean and maybe one day will be clean again but not in our generation. For me if the air meets US EPA standards for clean air I would call it good. Anything higher than that, just talking about how bad the air is.

 

 

I can't help it dude.  Sarcasm, maybe you can sorta call it that way.  To be honest, i can't deny for past 2 days there have been noticeable improvements vs last week..... heck just 3 days ago there were 2 stations surrounding Doi Inthanon that were hitting 999 and another one at Samoeng 999 last week.  

 

If i still describe it as "OMG don't even think of going out there without a mask still" then i'd be labelled as being part of the hysterical group.  LOL

 

It'll take a bit of time for it to really drop.   Unless a big sized rainmaker type of typhoon manages to come along the way, hit Vietnam and bulldozes into N Thailand, even after downgrading into a tropical depression it's still very much welcomed.

 

But really, technically speaking, for it to be Hazardous/Unhealthy based on US EPA health advisories, you'd need to look at the 24hr moving AQI figures.   Currently, CM city is basically in the Unhealthy zone.

Though i must also admit as well as disclaim this, if one has a pre-existing condition, just 30-60 minutes into AQI 310 air might trigger an allergy attack, no issue at all and it really depends. Coz a pax might have previously gone through 2hrs of AQI 400 and nothing much happened maybe just a bit of shortness of breathe, but 3 days later after longer lower level exposures for so long that person might have a very bad trigger needing an A&E visit in just half an hour.

 

PS. Also, some symptoms manifest themselves only 1-4 days after high exposure.  eg  cardiac/slight HBP elevation issues....however that same cardiac issue might be felt in just hours.

 

 

[vivid]

Anyway i have one question.  IS there an error over at PCD's aqmthai?

 

The AQI is specified based on the pollutant with the highest AQI after conversion, which they list is as PM2.5

How is it that 120 ug/m3 of PM2.5 becomes AQI 230?  (160 ug/m3 of 24-hr PM10 = AQI 103)

 

https://airnow.gov/index.cfm?action=airnow.calculator

 

 

http://aqmthai.com/aqi.php

 

[HaleySabai]

Interesting how back in Feb. when the "death-cloud" arrived and the no#'s were like 150-180,peaking on Feb.28 at 205(in Mae Rim) and I thought this was an outrageous AQI.....then came March,peaking out at 502. Having gone through that and now walking outside into 150-180 does almost feel like "aah..nice,time for a bike ride"....BUT! the air IS still unhealthy.

When I go to the large open markets (tues.& Fri) out here in Mae Rim and observe the locals, young,old thick & thin, very few wearing a proper mask, I literally don't notice among them any basic signs of adverse health effects from the pollution.Its just another day of 'hand to mouth' for the collective.

 

Of course we in the West used to think or rather were convinced by Big Corp. that cigarettes were no problem.In the 1950's even doctors were smoking on the job.The long term health effects of smoking are now obvious.

The compounded effects of PM2.5 on young & old must be more pronounced in or near the "hot-spot" zones. My wife met a women from Chang Dao who had to close down her coffee shop located up in a mountainous tourist area near where the local tribes are burning up the forest. She had to bring her 4yr.old son to the hospital in CM when he started coughing up blood and bleeding from the nose.

Doctor said this is an effect caused from exposure to concentrated levels of toxic gas-vapor..not sure if that means VOC's et.. One can only imagine the long term ill-health effects of people within the immediate vicinity of burning.

[vivid]

Wait....the AQI used in Thailand is not the same index as AQI used by US EPA?  (different calculations, different ranges).

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, HaleySabai said:

Interesting how back in Feb. when the "death-cloud" arrived and the no#'s were like 150-180,peaking on Feb.28 at 205(in Mae Rim) and I thought this was an outrageous AQI.....then came March,peaking out at 502. Having gone through that and now walking outside into 150-180 does almost feel like "aah..nice,time for a bike ride"....BUT! the air IS still unhealthy.

When I go to the large open markets (tues.& Fri) out here in Mae Rim and observe the locals, young,old thick & thin, very few wearing a proper mask, I literally don't notice among them any basic signs of adverse health effects from the pollution.Its just another day of 'hand to mouth' for the collective.

 

Of course we in the West used to think or rather were convinced by Big Corp. that cigarettes were no problem.In the 1950's even doctors were smoking on the job.The long term health effects of smoking are now obvious.

The compounded effects of PM2.5 on young & old must be more pronounced in or near the "hot-spot" zones. My wife met a women from Chang Dao who had to close down her coffee shop located up in a mountainous tourist area near where the local tribes are burning up the forest. She had to bring her 4yr.old son to the hospital in CM when he started coughing up blood and bleeding from the nose.

Doctor said this is an effect caused from exposure to concentrated levels of toxic gas-vapor..not sure if that means VOC's et.. One can only imagine the long term ill-health effects of people within the immediate vicinity of burning.

 

 

In Indonesia at central kalimantan, palangkaraya city, scientists have even measured that they had increased levels of CO.  Like 30-40ppm of CO iirc, a good several good kilometers from the nearest hotspot and in a hotel.     Some more it was prolonged levels of CO exposure, as in months literally.  The unfortunate thing is that chronic CO effects are still not very well understood, the same thing as the PM10 vs PM2.5 thingy last time before PM2.5 got introduced into the system and this literally shot up the index figures (AQI).

 

Additionally they detected stuff like ammonia and acids.

 

I think it shd be this group of scientists.

 

 

 

In your particular case that you shared, it is actually better for folks to get hold of a PM2.5 meter (if available) instead of totally relying on aqicn or even cmaqhi, which is still useful of course but does not tell you if a nearby fire is literally smoking you to hell simply because folks are "too used to the haze".  As in, it is just AQI 160, but you can ask a person chilling by the bar drinking a beer and he does not smell it, what haze? Don't be hysterical.  ????   But if you just stepped out of the AP filtered room, you'd immediately smell it and at quite a strong level too.  

 

 But unfortunately most common folks would not have access to that and even if money is not a big concern, normal folks would not think of getting such a meter, though a thermometer/hygrometer might be available around in the house and considered to be a common thing, nearly as common as a clock.  ???? 

 

I think from what i have seen in N Thailand, the issue is that there are many hotspots and very localised burning and pretty close to houses where people live.  Simply coz many people set fire to the slopes or something.

In Indonesia, they set fire to plantation lands, quite a farther distance from the nearest villages.  Those fires are bigger, have smoke that are of course dense but spread wider by the time it hits civilisations and do not have extremely high ultra concentrated localised levels due to the nature of the fire.

 

 

[wolfmuc]

Thanks, Mr vivid,

' normal folks would not think of getting such a PM2.5 meter '.

But this is very important.

 

In our provincial capital Phrae we had 160 PM2.5 today.

20 km north of Phrae 'only' about 50-60, inside and outside the house.

 

So, if you can check this yourself, I think it's much better than watch

any numbers from somewhere.

 

Btw, we use two different meters. One is called UNI-T, the other Xiaomi.

Both are always +/- 10 points. - This seems correct for me.

(prices 1.5/2.4 k Baht)

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 hours ago, vivid said:

Wait....the AQI used in Thailand is not the same index as AQI used by US EPA?  (different calculations, different ranges).

 

 

That's correct. Thailand created their own AQI scale that's different and more lenient than the U.S. EPA scale that's used by AQICN.org and many other reporters.

 

Because, Thailand set a higher level for acceptable (I won't call it "safe") PM2.5 exposure than either the U.S. or the WHO standards.

 

Thus when you have a Thai AQI level of PM2.5 that's just crossed into unhealthy terrain, the same PM2.5 reading in micrograms has already long been into the unhealthy scale on the U.S. AQI scale.

 

For my purposes, I just totally ignore any Thai government or government related AQI readings. I will look at their PM2.5 readings in micrograms and then convert those into the U.S. AQI scale. But even those you have to be careful about, because the Thai government sites/sources often report only prior 24-hour averages instead of near real-time readings, which tends to mask peaks and provide out-of-date readings.

 

 

[vivid]

10 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

That's correct. Thailand created their own AQI scale that's different and more lenient than the U.S. EPA scale that's used by AQICN.org and many other reporters.

Doh.....that's going to be even more confusing for me.  Now we have 2 x AQI ranges and health effects breakpoints whatever.  

 

Malaysia is using its index called API.  

 

My country, Singapore, is using PSI, PM2.5 now.  PSI 100=AQI 150 US EPA = 55.5ug/m3.  Exactly same 24-hr health advisories for PSI 100 (AQI 150), PSI 200 (AQI 200), PSI 300 (AQI 300).  There is no PSI 78 = AQI 100 = 35 ug/m3 breakpoint for the orange colour "Unhealthy for Sensitive Groups" like the US EPA has specified but nevertheless quite a few of us here do observe that (simply because they are in the sensitive group  ????)

 

My wife and family are from Indonesia.  Indonesia is using PSI as well, but has its own health effect ranges (sort of) and some stations are PM2.5 and some PM10.  

 

Good exercise for the brain  LOL!  ????

But my parents and my own family only visit BKK though. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

17 minutes ago, vivid said:

Doh.....that's going to be even more confusing for me.  Now we have 2 x AQI ranges and health effects breakpoints whatever.  

 my own family only visit BKK though. 

 

The simplest thing is just to focus on the PM2.5 levels in micrograms, and not worry too much about the AQI levels. The microgram readings are going to remain consistent from place to place, no matter what local AQI scale may be in place.

 

[vivid]

11 hours ago, wolfmuc said:

In our provincial capital Phrae we had 160 PM2.5 today.

20 km north of Phrae 'only' about 50-60, inside and outside the house.

 

So, if you can check this yourself, I think it's much better than watch

any numbers from somewhere.

 

Btw, we use two different meters. One is called UNI-T, the other Xiaomi.

Both are always +/- 10 points. - This seems correct for me.

(prices 1.5/2.4 k Baht)

 

 

Yes that is exactly what i said, the ground conditions could be even worse than the numbers on the website, or it could be better.

20km is actually quite large.

Let me give you an extreme example here in Singapore.  The hotspot was in an Indonesian province called Jambi, hotspot was some 150km away on satellite, though it was a large cluster.

It spiked our island country's West reading to PM2.5 471 ug/m3, South to 301 ug/m3 and finally East to only 35 ug/m3.

471 ug/m3, 300 and 35ug/m3.    The distance between the stations are like 40-20-0 km.

 

You can see the various reporting stations here, West, South, East, Central and North.

 

 

 

Now in N Thailand, your houses are even nearer to a hotspot (though they are presumably smaller in size/smoke intensity output than the indonesian ones), the variances could be quite large locally.

 

The laser particle counter meters work alright.  Only issue is that the relative humidity screws up the readings a bit.

But in N Thailand it ought to be ok in the afternoons and evenings till maybe around 10pm where the RH% is low.

I believe i read about it on CMU CCDC dustboy having to compensate via its own algorithm....some professor was saying that.

 

However the RH% in Singapore is very high usually, it reaches 90% in the early morning.  Even in the afternoon, 60% is not uncommon.  70% if it's cloudy.

 

This video best sums it up.  The air before sampling is standardised to 35% RH.

They are using BAM machines - Beta Attenuation Monitoring

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_attenuation_monitoring

 

 

 

[vivid]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The simplest thing is just to focus on the PM2.5 levels in micrograms, and not worry too much about the AQI levels. The microgram readings are going to remain consistent from place to place, no matter what local AQI scale may be in place.

 

 

Yeah i have been focusing mainly on the concentration numbers.   Issue is that some websites like aqicn does not release that. 

On sites like cmu ccdc/cmaqhi it's easier.   

 

Malaysia does not even release concentration figures as they think that number serves to confuse people further, and yes they do confuse folks even here in Singapore (the people here are supposed to be generally and widely educated to a decent degree) as they release both the PSI index figure as well as 1-hr PM2.5 concentration figures, as they just swap between the 2 interchangeably.    And of coz some people make general mistakes like comparing the  24-hr index figure against the 1hr concentration figure.

 

It also didn't help that they had an additional 3-hr moving average reading, which they dropped last year coz it still smooths things out too much.

In my country, they also do not release "1hr PSI", which cmqahi and CMU CDDC does release and tag a "1hr AQI" beside the 1hr concentration figures (depends on whether PM2.5 or PM10 is responsible for setting  a higher AQI figure".  But of coz an index figure help for general public "consumption".  And of course, now i know there is a 24-hr Thailand AQI which is used for both Thailand's PCD 24hr (no 1 hour AQI though you can get the last hourly concentration figure via the Reports tab), CMU CCDC 1hr and 24-hr, cmaqhi 1hr and 24hr figures.

 

I put quotes for 1hr because US EPA does not officially endorse a 1 hr figure.  Same for my country.

 

 

[vivid]

Phew......the above post about index figures vs concentration was a bit of a mouthful to type even for me who is quite at home with such things.  lol!  See what i mean. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

14 minutes ago, vivid said:

Yeah i have been focusing mainly on the concentration numbers.   Issue is that some websites like aqicn does not release that. 

 

Yeah, I wish AQICN.org did include the actual PM2.5 levels. But at least since they're using the U.S. AQI scale, it's easy to convert to those or to at least know that you're not relying on a fudged AQI scale like Thailand uses.

 

FWIW, AirVisual's data reporting provides both the U.S. AQI value and the actual PM2.5 reading in micrograms. Having their app on my Android phone, and/or looking at their website, has become my default reference source when I want to go looking for info on air pollution.

 

[vivid]

One thing i have good experience with be it folks in real life or in my country's forum discussion threads on haze/smog is to never use ug/m3 concentration figures, simply because they'd just automatically convert to an index figure, eg PSI or in Thailand's case AQI.

 

A - "OMG it's 90 ug/m3 out here, the haze is getting worse".

B- "Don't be hysterical and a wuss, 90's just fine mate........ time for a 50km biking trip. Let's go!"

 

????

[HaleySabai]

I've been monitoring the AirVisual.com site for some semblance of a PM2.5 ballpark reality for our area.

The Austrian consulate has an AirVisual Pro set up outdoors,designating it as a public station. Even though they are approximately 2kms away and next to a moderately busy road and we positioned comfortably sitting on three-sides of rice-patty, I've still been taking those numbers as gospel.

Would those figures be in line with the U.S standard?

 

The Austrian consulate as been off-line since April.1st - must of pulled the plug and baled!

 

I had a Xiaomi Mijia Smartmi on order from Aliexpress just prior to Chin-new years, after waiting a month the seller instead of fulfilling the orders from that period canceled them and raised the price by $12,pissed-off a heap of customers,mostly from Thailand.

At this point I'd rather invest in a good quality unit knowingly it should now be a standard household fixture along with air purifiers and whatever else essential to maintaining a semblance of 'safe-zone' within.

 

The wife took the kids to her village 125km south of CM where the air quality is apparently much better,at least the surrounding mountains are visible. They have been shut-in the house for most of March and eager to get outside and play.

 

The only real solution I see during these peak months  - is to just leave.

I've lived here long enough not to wait on or hope for positive change in Banana-Republic.

 

I have a firm bead on locations south for a family summer exodus off the beaten path of mass-tourism where they can endure the rigors of sea,sun and sand for a month or more.....bye,bye to the 'Wok-of Hell' that CM becomes.

[vivid]

20 hours ago, HaleySabai said:

I had a Xiaomi Mijia Smartmi on order from Aliexpress just prior to Chin-new years, after waiting a month the seller instead of fulfilling the orders from that period canceled them and raised the price by $12,pissed-off a heap of customers,mostly from Thailand.

At this point I'd rather invest in a good quality unit knowingly it should now be a standard household fixture along with air purifiers and whatever else essential to maintaining a semblance of 'safe-zone' within.

 

The wife took the kids to her village 125km south of CM where the air quality is apparently much better,at least the surrounding mountains are visible. They have been shut-in the house for most of March and eager to get outside and play.

 

Ugh........that cancelled order must have sucked.   Yeah there is a good 7-12 days of holidays for CNY and apparently they already start to stop biz around 6-8 days prior to 5th Feb.  I also got a cancelled order of a cheap fishing line and i placed it on 7 days before CNY. Even with that they didn't manage to push it out before that.  ????

 

With the lower RH%, it ought to be pretty reflective of the current situation and give you good spot readings.  Over here where i experience much higher RH, i gotta convert it into a rough range.

 

125km seems good, that's probably a bit south of Omkoi.  I remember on AQICN the levels there are significantly better, mostly reds and a wee bit of pueple. 

[HaleySabai]

2 hours ago, vivid said:

125km seems good, that's probably a bit south of Omkoi.  I remember on AQICN the levels there are significantly better, mostly reds and a wee bit of pueple. 

You know Omkoi?....that's considered a part of the "unseen Thailand" of ChiangMai,perhaps one of the most untouched regions where you can still see wild elephants in the Doi Mon Chong area. Its just over 200km from CM and at a much higher altitude. Damn cold in the winter,Ive been up there trekking when it actually snowed, not enough to attract Santa though.

I'm referring to the Doi Tao area down on the flat-lands near the Ping River.It's mostly a rice and Lam Yai zone.

[vivid]

17 hours ago, HaleySabai said:

You know Omkoi?....that's considered a part of the "unseen Thailand" of ChiangMai,perhaps one of the most untouched regions where you can still see wild elephants in the Doi Mon Chong area. Its just over 200km from CM and at a much higher altitude. Damn cold in the winter,Ive been up there trekking when it actually snowed, not enough to attract Santa though.

I'm referring to the Doi Tao area down on the flat-lands near the Ping River.It's mostly a rice and Lam Yai zone.

Nope......i am merely looking at maps.   lol.

 

Anyway, with today's levels and improvement (plus previous 5 days worth of gradual easing), i think we are quite on track to be having an ok songkran this coming Friday! 

 

Just hope no new major fires flare up again.

[markcm19]

hello, wondering if anyone knows which xiaomi air filter replacement is best for chiang mai pollution (WOW! it is BAD!), where to get one, and what a good price for it would be? I have a filter already and its disgusting and needs to be changed. THank you !

[HaleySabai]

16 minutes ago, markcm19 said:

hello, wondering if anyone knows which xiaomi air filter replacement is best for chiang mai pollution (WOW! it is BAD!), where to get one, and what a good price for it would be? I have a filter already and its disgusting and needs to be changed. THank you !

Is that a cylinder-type of filter? https://www.lazada.co.th/catalog/?q=xiaomi+air+filter&_keyori=ss&from=input&spm=a2o4m.home.search.go.2a41719cJzY01L

Check that out.

The 'new normal' is to stock filters and change them up more frequently.

We have most likely passed through the worst of the pollution at this stage, but by no means are we out of the woods yet.

 

I have a Hatari and burned through two filters in March.The image of the filter is only after 20-days,working 24/7 ...and our house is modern and fairly well sealed. 

[vivid]

Use the dirty filter first Haleysabai bro......change it out only after the first week of May.  lol! 

[HaleySabai]

<deleted>!! You have been the voice of reason on here....hey I could turn the filter around,it was relatively clean on the backside...ya, thanks,save money - reuse air filters and wear a mask indoors! Good one -NOT! ????

[markcm19]

yes it is the cylinder filter, there are a variety of styles/colors, anti bacterial, formaldehyde, original, high efficiency particulate among the ones I see, they look all like about 500 - 1000 baht which is a big difference. Ive not had good luck ordering on lazada, lot of broken or knockoff products, is there a chance the 590 baht one scan be legit?

[HaleySabai]

Yes, I feel the same way ordering from La-farta. Had nothing but bad experience with the few things I ordered.

Reluctant but out of desperation(everywhere else sold out) I went ahead and ordered my Hatari filter from them for about 110b more than regular retail.

 

It's pay yo monies take yo chances.....in my case I got what I payed for, a real Hatari filter, came to the door COD in 3-days.

Good Luck

[amexpat]

I got a roll of Filtrete from Lazada. Delivered COD in two days. 

I use Lazada a lot and always had fine service, no problems.

[orang37]

5 hours ago, amexpat said:

I got a roll of Filtrete from Lazada. Delivered COD in two days. 

I thought you were back in CorporateOccupiedMallburgerLand (USA) ?

 

~o:37;

[amexpat]

15 minutes ago, orang37 said:

I thought you were back in CorporateOccupiedMallburgerLand (USA) ?

 

~o:37;

Mistaken identity, methinks.